Brawl at Disneyland [merged]

[Gypsy65]

Here’s some good parenting

Dixon Police say they arrested a woman for driving down the road with 2 kids sitting inside an inflatable pool on the roof of the car.

Police say they pulled the driver over on River Lane, just south of IL Route 2. They say she told officers that she drove into town to inflate the pool at a friends’ house and had her two juvenile daughters ride inside of the empty pool to hold it down on their drive home.

Jennifer Yeager was placed under arrest for two counts of Endangering the Health or Life of a Child and two counts of Reckless Conduct. Yeager was also cited for failure to secure a passenger of the age of 8 and under the age of 16.

 

[RX8]

Did I miss something? The whole video is 4 minutes 23 seconds, the lone security guard was there at minute two and the rest at minute 3. That seems like a pretty reasonable response time. What got me was all the looky loos. If you aren't there to help, standing there watching is incredibly stupid and a good way to get yourself injured or killed. The one woman is a very big woman and if she just got shoved into you or your child, well that's going to hurt at the very least. I don't care how good security is if I saw an incident taking place I would never trust that someone didn't have a knife or a gun. I'm outta there.

I didn’t see any security until the 3:19 mark. There was a lone maintenance man early on but no security.

Edited: I watched it again and the guy trying to keep peace starting around 1:41 mark is a civilian. I still think the security response time was woefully inadequate.

 

[WVBaker]

I actually disagree w/you that this will be a debate as long as there are children to raise. I think eventually society as a whole will recognize the inappropriateness of hitting / striking / spanking (whatever you want to call it) a child and it will no longer be a "parenting style". I believe that spanked children who grow up to be well-behaved, functioning adults are that way DESPITE of their spanking , not because of it.

Absolutely
Some people have certain beliefs while others may not. We must agree to disagree on certain things.

 

[amycurl]

Well, that's the best thing about science....it's real whether you want to "believe" it or not. And the science on the impact of physical force of any kind on children is pretty clear. People can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it less true.

 

[mentalbreak]

Here’s some good parenting

Dixon Police say they arrested a woman for driving down the road with 2 kids sitting inside an inflatable pool on the roof of the car.

Police say they pulled the driver over on River Lane, just south of IL Route 2. They say she told officers that she drove into town to inflate the pool at a friends’ house and had her two juvenile daughters ride inside of the empty pool to hold it down on their drive home.

Jennifer Yeager was placed under arrest for two counts of Endangering the Health or Life of a Child and two counts of Reckless Conduct. Yeager was also cited for failure to secure a passenger of the age of 8 and under the age of 16.

View attachment 12817

From 2017. The last paragraph is a particular gem:

A Wisconsin woman thought it would be “OK” to have her 9-year-old son ride on the roof of her minivan — in the attempt to hold down a plastic pool — and now she’s facing up to ten years in prison, cops said.

Amber Schmunk, 28, was charged Tuesday with second degree recklessly endangering safety for the Sep. 9 incident, according to WTMJ-TV.

The Ozaukee County mom reportedly admitted to police that she was driving with her son on the roof, “but only for a short time, maybe 20-30 seconds,” she said.

A local resident had spotted her and called 911.

Schmunk told cops that she picked the pool up from a nearby residence and couldn’t fit it inside her vehicle. She said she “had no way to strap it down, so she had her child climb on the roof and hold it down while she drove,” the charging complaint says.

Schmunk went on to tell officers that she thought it would be “OK” for her to drive with her boy on the roof because her father did the same thing with her when she was a kid.

 

[WVBaker]

Well, that's the best thing about science....it's real whether you want to "believe" it or not. And the science on the impact of physical force of any kind on children is pretty clear. People can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it less true.

Regardless if I, "want to "believe" it or not", plays no part in any field of science. I'm certainly not condoning the use physical force in any form and I'm not denying it's impact.

As for corporal punishment, I believe at last count in 19 states it’s still legal for school officials to hit children. I personally don't agree with that form of punishment, but it is the law. If I resided in one of those states and my child attended school, I would be required to abide by the law. We can't pick and choose which laws to follow and which not to.

I think I explained as best I can how I "believe" a child, any child, should be raised. We can certainly disagree on any subject without being disagreeable in doing so.

 

[dioxide45]

Well, that's the best thing about science....it's real whether you want to "believe" it or not. And the science on the impact of physical force of any kind on children is pretty clear. People can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it less true.

Ahh (today's) science and studies, they can always be manipulated to get the desired outcome...

 

[davidvel]

Well, that's the best thing about science....it's real whether you want to "believe" it or not. And the science on the impact of physical force of any kind on children is pretty clear. People can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it less true.

Science once had a respected position where academics could utilize the scientific method, analyze, deduce, and reach consensus on theories. Scientists didn't demean others for reaching a different conclusion, it was just part of the process. Once politics entered the fray, science changed. "Science" became what those who paid you said it should be. It became what the groups paying the grants hoped it would be. It became a game of being shunned if your results didn't fit the popular mold.

Of course there are many areas where science is still what we all grew up thinking it is, but in public discourse, "Science" now is whatever a group (the loudest/biggest/most opinionated) say it is. One person's science is another's garbage. The science mantra is now a means to bully others into feeling stupid for not agreeing with another's science.

Science once said certain racial groups were inferior to others, and science was a basis for the holocaust. Science once said the earth was flat.

Science is the modern day "race card," to be held out to diminish and demean your opponent, without critically arguing or debating the science itself. "I say the science is on my side, so you are ignorant to ignore what I tell you the science says."

No, science is far from 2+2=4.

 

[bbodb1]

Well, that's the best thing about science....it's real whether you want to "believe" it or not. And the science on the impact of physical force of any kind on children is pretty clear. People can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it less true.

Amy,

As someone who works in a public school, I am going to respectfully disagree with your position.
To be clear, I am NOT saying all trouble making children should be spanked repeatedly, but when properly used, spanking is an effective tool in steering many children away from becoming a trouble making child.

Spanking must not be the only tool used - but it must be in the tool belt if needed. Far too many classrooms are disrupted (and instructional time for ALL students lost) with all of the TYNT approaches tried in school systems these days.

 

[DavidnRobin]

A good Scientist knows his mind, and is smart enough to question it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gypsy65]

Amy,

As someone who works in a public school, I am going to respectfully disagree with your position.
To be clear, I am NOT saying all trouble making children should be spanked repeatedly, but when properly used, spanking is an effective tool in steering many children away from becoming a trouble making child.

Spanking must not be the only tool used - but it must be in the tool belt if needed. Far too many classrooms are disrupted (and instructional time for ALL students lost) with all of the TYNT approaches tried in school systems these days.

We have come a long way from whips and chains but now have gone too far the other direction

I see kids all the time screaming and such when out. The parents either do nothing or think it’s cute
Really??
Kids need to have respect and fear. Not a fear of getting beat but a fear of the unknown
Sorta like jail. The fear of going usually is worse than the actual going

 

[bbodb1]

A good Scientist knows his mind, and is smart enough to question it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

...and repeat said process......

 

[CPNY]

Or a professional golfer

Or a bad golfer Tag line “ohhhh he shanked it” lol

 

[Shankilicious]

As a police Officer and son of a teacher, I've seen many many style of parenting. And the kids who have a fear of their parents, which later develops into respect, are the good kids. The kids whose parents were/are their friends and don't tell them no or put any fear in them until their in middle school, are/were the kids who end up being well known by police and school administrators.
I, and my 5 closest friends, as well as all of the members of my police department got spanked and were more afraid of our parents reaction to our trouble making than anything else. None of us have gotten into any trouble with the police outside of traffic tickets.
My issue with the "science" argument is that these stats include children who were literally abused, had DCFS called, and were potentially taken from their parents for their abusiveness. If you ask kids if they were hit or spanked by their parents, many will exaggerate and say they're hit or abused by their parents. I've had countless kids call the cops on their parents for abuse when all that happened was the kid tried to run away or fight the parent because the parent took their phone/tablet/game system away and then restrained the child to prevent them harming family or running away.

 

[Shankilicious]

For those that don't wanna read the whole article that @amycurl posted, here's a few paragraphs from that same article, oddly the only section that posts any statistics:

As in many areas of science, some researchers disagree about the validity of the studies on physical punishment. Robert Larzelere, PhD, an Oklahoma State University professor who studies parental discipline, was a member of the APA task force who issued his own minority report because he disagreed with the scientific basis of the task force recommendations. While he agrees that parents should reduce their use of physical punishment, he says most of the cited studies are correlational and don’t show a causal link between physical punishment and long-term negative effects for children.

“The studies do not discriminate well between non-abusive and overly severe types of corporal punishment,” Larzelere says. “You get worse outcomes from corporal punishment than from alternative disciplinary techniques only when it is used more severely or as the primary discipline tactic.”

In a meta-analysis of 26 studies, Larzelere and a colleague found that an approach they described as “conditional spanking” led to greater reductions in child defiance or anti-social behavior than 10 of 13 alternative discipline techniques, including reasoning, removal of privileges and time out (Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, 2005). Larzelere defines conditional spanking as a disciplinary technique for 2- to 6-year-old children in which parents use two open-handed swats on the buttocks only after the child has defied milder discipline such as time out.

Just throwing it out there.

 

[Gypsy65]

As a police Officer and son of a teacher, I've seen many many style of parenting. And the kids who have a fear of their parents, which later develops into respect, are the good kids. The kids whose parents were/are their friends and don't tell them no or put any fear in them until their in middle school, are/were the kids who end up being well known by police and school administrators.
I, and my 5 closest friends, as well as all of the members of my police department got spanked and were more afraid of our parents reaction to our trouble making than anything else. None of us have gotten into any trouble with the police outside of traffic tickets.
My issue with the "science" argument is that these stats include children who were literally abused, had DCFS called, and were potentially taken from their parents for their abusiveness. If you ask kids if they were hit or spanked by their parents, many will exaggerate and say they're hit or abused by their parents. I've had countless kids call the cops on their parents for abuse when all that happened was the kid tried to run away or fight the parent because the parent took their phone/tablet/game system away and then restrained the child to prevent them harming family or running away.

Well said!!!

 

[WVBaker]

I actually disagree w/you that this will be a debate as long as there are children to raise. I think eventually society as a whole will recognize the inappropriateness of hitting / striking / spanking (whatever you want to call it) a child and it will no longer be a "parenting style". I believe that spanked children who grow up to be well-behaved, functioning adults are that way DESPITE of their spanking , not because of it.

Given the last few posts, it's fair to say that there are many ideas and reasoning on whether to use corporal punishment or not. It's not always as black and white as some may think it is. There has not been one post that condones abusing any child. Corporal punishment is not always the "abuse" that some may wish to define it as.

As the child of parents who believed in corporal punishment, when the situation called for it, I loved and respected both my parents. I knew and understood that there were consequences for my actions and wouldn't change that. As a person who grew up and chose law enforcement as my profession, as well as being a "well-behaved, functioning adult", I do know why.

Believe it or not, it was because of it.

 

[Shankilicious]

Given the last few posts, it's fair to say that there are many ideas and reasoning on whether to use corporal punishment or not. It's not always as black and white as some may think it is. There has not been one post that condones abusing any child. Corporal punishment is not always the "abuse" that some may wish to define it as.

As the child of parents who believed in corporal punishment, when the situation called for it, I loved and respected both my parents. I knew and understood that there were consequences for my actions and wouldn't change that. As a person who grew up and chose law enforcement as my profession, as well as being a "well-behaved, functioning adult", I do know why.

Believe it or not, it was because of it.

Agreed.

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[jehb2]

I was at church camp all week with my kids but my family was texting back and forth about the video. I had decided I wouldn’t watch it. But just now watched it here. I really wished I hadn’t. That was extremely disturbing.

 

[Gypsy65]

I was at church camp all week with my kids but my family was texting back and forth about the video. I had decided I wouldn’t watch it. But just now watched it here. I really wished I hadn’t. That was extremely disturbing.

Thing is. The kids weren’t even phased by it
If I did that to my wife or whoever she was. My kids would have been screaming

 

[Gypsy65]

I also think there was a lot of screaming or arguing going on well before the video and that may have been part of the reason no one stepped in

 

[beejaybeeohio]

As a police Officer and son of a teacher, I've seen many many style of parenting. And the kids who have a fear of their parents, which later develops into respect, are the good kids. The kids whose parents were/are their friends and don't tell them no or put any fear in them until their in middle school, are/were the kids who end up being well known by police and school administrators.
I, and my 5 closest friends, as well as all of the members of my police department got spanked and were more afraid of our parents reaction to our trouble making than anything else. None of us have gotten into any trouble with the police outside of traffic tickets.
My issue with the "science" argument is that these stats include children who were literally abused, had DCFS called, and were potentially taken from their parents for their abusiveness. If you ask kids if they were hit or spanked by their parents, many will exaggerate and say they're hit or abused by their parents. I've had countless kids call the cops on their parents for abuse when all that happened was the kid tried to run away or fight the parent because the parent took their phone/tablet/game system away and then restrained the child to prevent them harming family or running away.

The fear of parents may develop into respect for them, but if a "whupping" is what kids expect, the discipline of teachers and administrators, e.g. detention, being sent to the office, etc. just doesn't faze them.

Now, if parents would support discipline meted out for their kid's flaunting school rules, by adding on a consequence at home (not physical!), we'd have more "good kids".

As far as kids exaggerating abuse, it's the role of Children's Service to determine if, in fact, the child is in a dangerous situation. Seriously abused kids will lie in the opposite direction of your examples stating that they fell or ran into daddy's cigarette or were playing around with a rope!

 

[klpca]

Well, somehow I managed to raise three law abiding kids with hardly any corporal punishment. If the foundation for respect has been laid from an early age - starting in the toddler years - I don't think that you need a lot of corporal punishment. My middle kid spent so much time on the naughty step as a toddler that she would put herself on the step when she knew that she did something wrong. In our house, "house rules" were never negotiable. Bedtime was bedtime. No exceptions. What you were served for dinner was what you were getting for dinner. No exceptions. Fight with your sibling? Apologize and take a seat on the naughty step. No exceptions. "Naughty steps" are everywhere you look - the curb in a parking lot, a picnic bench seat - it didn't matter - you break the rules, you take a seat. Fast forward to the teen years and while it wasn't without some goof ups, we didn't have nearly the issues that we saw with other kids. Curfews were obeyed without question. Everyone graduated with good grades, everyone went to college, two of three have advanced degrees, all three have good jobs and contribute to society. It's not fool proof, but good, active parenting takes care of a lot of behavior problems.

And circling back to the video, those poor kids who are growing up in that kind of environment. It just breaks your heart for them.

 

[Shankilicious]

The fear of parents may develop into respect for them, but if a "whupping" is what kids expect, the discipline of teachers and administrators, e.g. detention, being sent to the office, etc. just doesn't faze them.

Now, if parents would support discipline meted out for their kid's flaunting school rules, by adding on a consequence at home (not physical!), we'd have more "good kids".

As far as kids exaggerating abuse, it's the role of Children's Service to determine if, in fact, the child is in a dangerous situation. Seriously abused kids will lie in the opposite direction of your examples stating that they fell or ran into daddy's cigarette or were playing around with a rope!

There's definitely some truth to what you say. However, I obeyed the school rules, or at least the major ones (every kid tries to get away with a little) more out of fear of the letter or call home than of the school punishments. But I never got detention or skipped classes and by college that was out of respect for my parents and fear of their disappointment rather than any other punishment. My greatest fear is letting down my father, to this day. Got plenty of spankings and belts across the backside from him and my mother. But never once was I spanked, struck, slapped, smacked, or "hit" anywhere else. Not once. Even when I lied or cursed in their face.
As far as Children Services goes. They are insanely under staffed. I've reported severe abuse and had children in protective custody and waited hours for a response. I've had a dad admit on recorded interview that he "popped that B***h in the mouth for back talking" and then threw her to the ground when she tried to run outside and the dad didn't get convicted of child abuse/domestic battery even though that's what I charged him with. I know they try hard but working 60 hours a week for barely more than minimum wage is a remarkably thankless job.
The spankings stopped by the time I was 5ish. Then it was taking things away from me that I cherished or grounding me so that I couldn't go to friends houses or do anything outside or school and sports. I was never grounded to the point that I missed a sports game. Even though I loved sports, once signed up for a team, that was an obligation in my dad's eyes and it is not allowed to miss an obligation for any reason except severe illness or family emergency.
That's the difference.

 

[Shankilicious]

Well, somehow I managed to raise three law abiding kids with hardly any corporal punishment. If the foundation for respect has been laid from an early age - starting in the toddler years - I don't think that you need a lot of corporal punishment. My middle kid spent so much time on the naughty step as a toddler that she would put herself on the step when she knew that she did something wrong. In our house, "house rules" were never negotiable. Bedtime was bedtime. No exceptions. What you were served for dinner was what you were getting for dinner. No exceptions. Fight with your sibling? Apologize and take a seat on the naughty step. No exceptions. "Naughty steps" are everywhere you look - the curb in a parking lot, a picnic bench seat - it didn't matter - you break the rules, you take a seat. Fast forward to the teen years and while it wasn't without some goof ups, we didn't have nearly the issues that we saw with other kids. Curfews were obeyed without question. Everyone graduated with good grades, everyone went to college, two of three have advanced degrees, all three have good jobs and contribute to society. It's not fool proof, but good, active parenting takes care of a lot of behavior problems.

And circling back to the video, those poor kids who are growing up in that kind of environment. It just breaks your heart for them.

I think the way you parented/described it is the best way to parent. I never spank my kids unless they've been told repeatedly, had things taken away, and still are blatantly defiant. Even then, it's not out of anger as I know where they get their insanely strong will and stubbornness.... ME and her mother is just like I am lol! But props to you @klpca for raising good kids that are a positive contribution to society