Is 2019 the 'Year of the Timeshare'? [Marriott/Vistana/Hyatt in the DC speculation]

[Fasttr]

Question: If you own a lock-off can you opt to put only one side into DC for the year? e.g. put our Maui OF studio in DC for points to get MVC Kauai or Ko Olina for a week. And use the other side of our Westin Maui the other week.

No. It’s all or nothing for each enrolled week. Can’t just exchange part of a unit for DC points.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

So that's a downside of DC vs. SOs where you can deposit a lock-off without skim. Today we can trade our OF studio side via 81,000 SOs for Westin Princeville or Poipu no skim. This gives us one week on Maui OF one bedroom side and one week on Kauai (studio side for a one bedroom!). Thats $1350 a week for all one bedrooms (with one being an OF one bedroom with top ownership view priority). Can't rent for anywhere near that price during prime HI season.

But no Ko Olina options though.

(We also have options via HGVC for Waikoloa on the Big Island, Waikiki, and eventually Maui to extend a stay too.)

 

[kds4]

FWIW I read another thread to educate myself on the MVC system. I found these summaries quite helpful:






I see the benefits of DC for an invested (or potential to invest) MVC owner, however we are already invested in timeshares in other systems (HGVC) so are reaching the saturation point as to what we can realistically use without having to consistently rent out our units. Would love to enroll and rent points/trade occasionally for MVC, but if they require us to purchase more DC points or a hybrid, we will probably pass and just use what we own.

If we are able to enroll and rent points, or as @Quilter suggests, working with a Chairman level owner to occasionally rent the MVC unit we need would be our favored approach.

Question: If you own a lock-off can you opt to put only one side into DC for the year?

No. You don't have put your entire portfolio into DC points (if you own multiple weeks), but you do have to convert entire units (whether they are lock-offs or not).

 

[SueDonJ]

So that's a downside of DC vs. SOs where you can deposit a lock-off without skim. Today we can trade our OF studio via 81,000 SOs for Westin Princeville or Poipu no skim. This gives us one week on Maui OF and one week on Kauai (studio) for $1350 a week. (but no Ko Olina)

(We also have options for HGVC for Waikoloa on the Big Island, Waikiki, and eventually Maui)

Just to note that DC Points allotments for lock-off units don't even stipulate amounts per component, only a single amount for the entire unit. Like Fasttr says, it's all or nothing, and there is specific wording in the governing docs to that extent.

 

[Ken555]

Just to note that DC Points allotments for lock-off units don't even stipulate amounts per component, only a single amount for the entire unit. Like Fasttr says, it's all or nothing, and there is specific wording in the governing docs to that extent.

If you opt to deposit in II, is there still a lock off fee? If so, that’s another charge we don’t have with Vistana.


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[SueDonJ]

So that's a downside of DC vs. SOs where you can deposit a lock-off without skim. Today we can trade our OF studio side via 81,000 SOs for Westin Princeville or Poipu no skim. This gives us one week on Maui OF one bedroom side and one week on Kauai (studio for a one bedroom!) for $1350 a week. (but no Ko Olina)

(We also have options for HGVC for Waikoloa on the Big Island, Waikiki, and eventually Maui to extend a stay.)

This is a basic question that's maybe getting ahead of the curve but, is your ownership in the form of a deeded Week which allows for an SO exchange benefit, or, is it specifically deeded as SO's with a home resort advantage?

The reason I ask could be the difference between a possible DC enrollment for you that's based on a Week->DC Points exchange or an SO's->DC Points exchange. If it's a Weeks-based deed then your election would be either to DC Points or to SO's, meaning your allotment would be based on the Week and maybe not on the equivalent value of its SO's. If it's an SO's-based ownership, the DC Points value could be per SO.

As for skim, it's inherent in the DC system. I'd expect it no matter what may be offered.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@SueDonJ Hmm, difficult to definitively answer...we own a deeded week. It converts automatically at 8 months to 178,000 Staroptions (or 81k studio, 97,000 1 bdrm if partial conversion) in the SVN program if the home week is not used. I would presume that if we enrolled in DC and opted to convert that year the entire value of the week would convert - but would have 12 month reservations priority with skim(?) but lower view priority into my resort instead of 8 mos no skim to other islands, and 12 mo guaranteed owner OF view priority on Maui via lockoff.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

If you opt to deposit in II, is there still a lock off fee? If so, that’s another charge we don’t have with Vistana.


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Enrolled weeks NO. Unenrolled weeks YES.




.

 

[SueDonJ]

If you opt to deposit in II, is there still a lock off fee? If so, that’s another charge we don’t have with Vistana.


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In the Marriott system there's a lock-off transaction fee for un-enrolled Weeks. If enrolled, that fee is absorbed by the DC Club Dues fee regardless of whether you use the components or deposit them into II.

A couple things to note about II: DC Members are assigned a corporate II account in addition to their existing individual II account. Its platform looks and functions exactly the same as that of the individual accounts, but only the enrolled Weeks can be exchanged via the new account, and the transaction fees are absorbed by the DC Club Dues fee only if exchanges are to same-branded timeshares. So if you have other non-DC-enrolled intervals for which you use II and you still want to take advantage of the fee waivers, you'll have to keep both your individual and corporate II accounts, paying the membership and per-transaction fees for any non-DC affiliated ownerships. And, if you exchange your enrolled Week via its corporate II account to other-branded timeshares, transaction fees will be assessed. (For everyone under the MVW umbrella, the question will be whether "other-branded" means anything other than the brand of each specific enrolled Week, or instead, any brand that doesn't come under the MVW umbrella.)

 

[SueDonJ]

@SueDonJ Hmm, difficult to definitively answer...we own a deeded week. It converts automatically at 8 months to 178,000 Staroptions (or 81k studio, 97,000 1 bdrm if partial conversion) in the SVN program if the home week is not used. I would presume that if we enrolled in DC and opted to convert that year the entire value of the week would convert - but would have 12 month reservations priority instead of 8 plus skim.

Again, thinking only in terms of simplicity and acknowledging that anybody else's guess is as good as mine, , I would expect that any DC enrollment option offered to you will be based on exchanging the Week for DC Points with its SO value being irrelevant.

 

[Dean]

You got one thing def right, I want things to stay the same or at least retain the same options with additional options!

And I personally think that's very unlikely over time, it might be so early on, we'll see.

 

[pchung6]

Again, thinking only in terms of simplicity and acknowledging that anybody else's guess is as good as mine, , I would expect that any DC enrollment option offered to you will be based on exchanging the Week for DC Points with its SO value being irrelevant.

After reading all these DC explanations you mentioned above, it confirms I just want to stay with VSN and have no piece of Marriott DC. I don't want anything from Marriott or DC points, only thing there I find attractive is probably only renting points for staying additional 1-2 nights. I can easily compliment this by using reward points booking or just do cash reservation.

Also there are just a handful of resorts I want to stay and that's all Westins, I don't need anything from Marriott. I do like MKO but I can go there using my ownership and that's it. I hope Marriott can leave VSN independent for as long as possible and I will be totally fine without DC.

 

[Dean]

After reading all these DC explanations you mentioned above, it confirms I just want to stay with VSN and have no piece of Marriott DC. I don't want anything from Marriott or DC points, only thing there I find attractive is probably only renting points for staying additional 1-2 nights. I can easily compliment this by using reward points booking or just do cash reservation.

Also there are just a handful of resorts I want to stay and that's all Westins, I don't need anything from Marriott. I do like MKO but I can go there using my ownership and that's it. I hope Marriott can leave VSN independent for as long as possible and I will be totally fine without DC.

What if they separate Vistana and Westin so you can't book directly with the other?

 

[SueDonJ]

After reading all these DC explanations you mentioned above, it confirms I just want to stay with VSN and have no piece of Marriott DC. I don't want anything from Marriott or DC points, only thing there I find attractive is probably only renting points for staying more 1-2 nights. I can easily compliment this by using reward points booking or just do cash reservation.

Also there are just a handful of resorts I want to stay and that's all Westins, I don't need anything from Marriott. I do like MKO but I can go there using my ownership and that's it. I hope Marriott can leave VSN independent for as long as possible and I will be totally fine without DC.

It's good you have the benefit of considering a whole mess of "what-ifs" before the fact. But if there's a rollout of something new, keep an open mind then to how it works and whether it offers usage value specific to your intended needs. At the Marriott rollout there really was an immediate and visceral dislike by the overwhelming majority, followed slowly by many who came to understand that it worked better for them than previous exchange options had worked and/or that it offered ancillary benefits that were too good to pass up (like II transaction fee waivers and DC Points transfer/rental possibilities.) No doubt the DC still doesn't work for everybody and I'd never suggest that everybody should just jump in head-first without a moment's thought, but looking ahead with a bias either for or against might actually get in the way of what's best for you.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

What if they separate Vistana and Westin so you can't book directly with the other?

Do you mean separating Sheraton and Westin resorts? Why would they do that? Anyway wouldn't matter to us because we want to trade all Westins. Would never use our expensive Maui SO points on a Sheraton. Would affect the SVV buyers who arbitrage into Westins though.

Or do you mean taking away the SO program? That would present a host of legal problems as discussed earlier in this thread because the CC&Rs of the mandatory resorts (>25% of SVN - mostly Westins) require participation in a points program that can be passed onto resale buyers. I doubt MVC would encumber DC with that responsibility vs. grandfathering the SO program. Even Diamond and Wyndham wouldn't pull a stunt like that with an acquisition.

 

[pchung6]

What if they separate Vistana and Westin so you can't book directly with the other?

They can shut down VSN, then I'm done. I hope it is 10 years from now. Seriously I really don't see anything VSN owners can benefit from Marriott DC beside few owners might want go to Aruba. I don't see these other offering such as Pulse or AP locations really appealing to VSN people, these just are not natural fit to SVN style. These resorts in Spain could be good, but I don't know too much about it.

 

[pchung6]

At the Marriott rollout there really was an immediate and visceral dislike by the overwhelming majority, followed slowly by many who came to understand that it worked better for them than previous exchange options had worked and/or that it offered ancillary benefits that were too good to pass up (like II transaction fee waivers and DC Points transfer/rental possibilities.)

Totally agreed with everything you said here since no one likes to change. I purchased my first timeshare from Starwood, very expensive, and later found out this site about resale. That's how I started to understand timeshare and fell in love with Starwood timeshare. Currently whatever I can do with my VSN membership and online account is exactly fitting my lifestyle, budget, and vacation needs. 100% satisfied. I live in a dream with my VSN account. It is very very difficult to alter my plan that has been working perfectly and adopt to new DC who knows what Marriott will bring to the table.

Yes it is fear and uncertainty.

 

[SueDonJ]

Totally agreed with everything you said here since no one likes to change. I purchased my first timeshare from Starwood, very expensive, and later found out this site about resale. That's how I started to understand timeshare and fell in love with Starwood timeshare. Currently whatever I can do with my VSN membership and online account is exactly fitting my lifestyle, budget, and vacation needs. 100% satisfied. I live in a dream with my VSN account. It is very very difficult to alter my plan that has been working perfectly and adopt to new DC who knows what Marriott will bring to the table.

Yes it is fear and uncertainty.

Completely understandable.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The biggest difference between 2010 and now is that MVC owners had no point program alternatives so MVC could charge to enroll (even if it was nominal) because the value proposition was significant.

For SVN, a points program already exists with SOs and it may be superior to DC due to lack of skim, partial point lock-off capability, grandfathering mandatory resales, and relative property point valuations. The value proposition MVC offers will need to cross a high threshold and not take away owner rights in order to incent a broad base of owners to enroll beyond a few token units for their marketing literature. Of course, voluntary properties and those without lock-offs will have a lower threshold. 12 month reservations and ability to rent points are positive attributes of DC especially for VSN arbitragers.

 

[pchung6]

The biggest difference between 2010 and now is that MVC owners had no point program alternatives so MVC could charge to enroll (even if it was nominal) because the value proposition was significant.

For SVN, a points program already exists with SOs and it may be superior to DC due to lack of skim, partial point lock-off capability, grandfathering mandatory resales, and relative property point valuations. The value proposition MVC offers will need to cross a high threshold and not take away owner rights in order to incent a broad base of owners to enroll beyond a few token units for their marketing literature. Of course, voluntary properties and those without lock-offs will have a lower threshold.

Exactly. SVN SOs is already superior to DC for most owners, why break if it is working? The only advantages I see are points renting and week-to-week free exchange, which I can live without.

 

[ocdb8r]

I'm really surprised at the lack of interest in gaining access to the DC points portfolio. I, of course, expect everyone will make their own cost benefit analysis, but as an SVN owner, there are a number of MVC properties it would be nice to have access to (even if only for an occasional change of pace). I would think places like:

• Aruba
• Newport Coast
• St. Kitts
• Spain
• Italy (oops - confused with HGVC on this one; no MVC in Italy)
• Thailand
• Ko Olina
• Hilton Head
• Williamsburg
• Park City
• Las Vegas

All compliment our current SVN portfolio fairly well. I am also not personally interested in the Pulse offering as I think hotel and AirBnB options are more attractive in city centers, but there's enough variety in the above locations that I'd probably be interested in electing for DC points every 3 years or so (and there are some sufficiently invested in timeshares that I suspect some would also welcome the ability to use their points at the urban Pulse locations).

The biggest difference between 2010 and now is that MVC owners had no point program alternatives so MVC could charge to enroll (even if it was nominal) because the value proposition was significant.

I also don't fully understand why there is a hang up about the potential enrollment cost. When I purchased my first mandatory SVN week (resale) I had to pay a $399 SVN enrollment fee. That's not terribly far off the $595 MVC charged developer purchased weeks to join the DC program.

 

[JIMinNC]

I'm really surprised at the lack of interest in gaining access to the DC points portfolio. I, of course, expect everyone will make their own cost benefit analysis, but as an SVN owner, there are a number of MVC properties it would be nice to have access to (even if only for an occasional change of pace). I would think places like:

• Aruba
• Newport Coast
• St. Kitts
• Spain
• Italy
• Thailand
• Ko Olina
• Hilton Head
• Williamsburg
• Park City
• Las Vegas

All compliment our current SVN portfolio fairly well. I am also not personally interested in the Pulse offering as I think hotel and AirBnB options are more attractive in city centers, but there's enough variety in the above locations that I'd probably be interested in electing for DC points every 3 years or so (and there are some sufficiently invested in timeshares that I suspect some would also welcome the ability to use their points at the urban Pulse locations)

No MVC in Italy. There is one in Paris, near the Disney park.

 

[bazzap]

I'm really surprised at the lack of interest in gaining access to the DC points portfolio. I, of course, expect everyone will make their own cost benefit analysis, but as an SVN owner, there are a number of MVC properties it would be nice to have access to (even if only for an occasional change of pace). I would think places like:

• Aruba
• Newport Coast
• St. Kitts
• Spain
• Italy
• Thailand
• Ko Olina
• Hilton Head
• Williamsburg
• Park City
• Las Vegas

All compliment our current SVN portfolio fairly well. I am also not personally interested in the Pulse offering as I think hotel and AirBnB options are more attractive in city centers, but there's enough variety in the above locations that I'd probably be interested in electing for DC points every 3 years or so (and there are some sufficiently invested in timeshares that I suspect some would also welcome the ability to use their points at the urban Pulse locations).



I also don't fully understand why there is a hang up about the potential enrollment cost. When I purchased my first mandatory SVN week (resale) I had to pay a $399 SVN enrollment fee. That's not terribly far off the $595 MVC charged developer purchased weeks to join the DC program.

A good choice of MVC properties haha
This includes all 5 of the home resorts we own at

 

[CPNY]

I'm really surprised at the lack of interest in gaining access to the DC points portfolio. I, of course, expect everyone will make their own cost benefit analysis, but as an SVN owner, there are a number of MVC properties it would be nice to have access to (even if only for an occasional change of pace). I would think places like:

• Aruba
• Newport Coast
• St. Kitts
• Spain
• Italy (oops - confused with HGVC on this one; no MVC in Italy)
• Thailand
• Ko Olina
• Hilton Head
• Williamsburg
• Park City
• Las Vegas

All compliment our current SVN portfolio fairly well. I am also not personally interested in the Pulse offering as I think hotel and AirBnB options are more attractive in city centers, but there's enough variety in the above locations that I'd probably be interested in electing for DC points every 3 years or so (and there are some sufficiently invested in timeshares that I suspect some would also welcome the ability to use their points at the urban Pulse locations).



I also don't fully understand why there is a hang up about the potential enrollment cost. When I purchased my first mandatory SVN week (resale) I had to pay a $399 SVN enrollment fee. That's not terribly far off the $595 MVC charged developer purchased weeks to join the DC program.

Resorts in Thailand are pretty inexpensive. Spending a week in Phuket doesn’t seem appealing when there are amazing islands to explore. As far and Europe, I’d much rather an airbnb and be in the heart of the city, but that’s just me. The island of St Kitts doesn’t compare with Bahamas or St John. Park city would be great to go to as well as Aruba!!

 

[CPNY]

It's good you have the benefit of considering a whole mess of "what-ifs" before the fact. But if there's a rollout of something new, keep an open mind then to how it works and whether it offers usage value specific to your intended needs. At the Marriott rollout there really was an immediate and visceral dislike by the overwhelming majority, followed slowly by many who came to understand that it worked better for them than previous exchange options had worked and/or that it offered ancillary benefits that were too good to pass up (like II transaction fee waivers and DC Points transfer/rental possibilities.) No doubt the DC still doesn't work for everybody and I'd never suggest that everybody should just jump in head-first without a moment's thought, but looking ahead with a bias either for or against might actually get in the way of what's best for you.

Just heard from someone who went on another MVC owners update sales presentation. They said the rep said by the end of the year VSN would be incorporated but only available to chairman level only (not sure if I’m getting the status level right). Obviously that is most likely a sales scare tactic to get them to buy more now, which is sad considering it’s most likely a lie. However the Vistana reps were trying to sell me hard on achieving elite status. This joint program or incorporated access could be just for those who are at that level. Just a thought. I think (hope) they will keep both DC and VSN separate and keep a third combined access for those who pay up!