Little Girl that Died on Cruise Ship

[Beachclubmum]

I doubt very much. This "problem" is a feature of all cruise ships and has nothing to do with this cruise line.

I guess time will tell. I could see them putting something into place so this doesn't happen again.

 

[Luanne]

I guess time will tell. I could see them putting something into place so this doesn't happen again.

Maybe make everyone wear life jackets, put toddler on leashes. And yes, I am kidding............somewhat.

 

[pedro47]

Maybe all cruise lines will be forced to seal every window in the children play areas for safety reasons. IMO.

 

[easyrider]

“requires enclosed areas to be enclosed”?

I’m confused. So anything with walls can’t have a window that’s open? Then since a stateroom with a balcony is an “enclosed area”, the balcony door can’t be opened? The balcony must be enclosed lower deck to upper deck? The vessel and its design with opening windows wasn’t inspected and approved by the Coast Guard in order to sail in US waters and Ports?

Every cruise ship I’ve ever been on has the same opening windows as the Freedom of the Seas (which I have sailed on before).

It certainly seems to me the grandfather was holding the child near or out the window and somehow lost his grip as he stated according to his original report. A true tragedy but an accident just the same.

Cheers

Public areas in buildings with glass type enclosures, like a restaurant on an upper story, have windows that can only open 4 inches because this is code. Even private areas in many buildings only open four inches. The 4 inch rule is because that is the supposed size of a baby's head. This rule applies to railings as well.

So the cruise ship window on the 11th story should only be able to open 4 inches or not at all. How is this window open enough to let a person fall through ? It is likely a service window that was mistakenly left open to be open over 4 inches, imo.

Bill

 

[pedro47]

Also, maybe all cruise lines needs to prohibit adults parents and grandparents in the children play areas. Plus, cruise lines will needs to come up with a written consent form about not lifting children up near open windows, railings and on their balconies.

 

[Luanne]

Maybe all cruise lines will be forced to seal every window in the children play areas for safety reasons. IMO.

Well, that takes care of the children's play areas, but what about the rest of the ship? What if grandpa, or grandma or the parents, decide to let the child "sit" on the railing. Or play outside on the balcony.

 

["Roger"]

No. I'm saying the 2010 Cruise Vessel act requires enclosed areas to be enclosed and railings to be solid and 42 inches high. The open window is part of an enclosed view wall and should not be open when passengers are on board.

Bill

I just read through the 2010 Cruise Security and Safety Act and I didn't see anything about enclosed areas having to be enclosed. (Did I miss it?)

The act does require 42" railings which raises another point. Even if the grandpa was unaware of the window being open, why is he boosting a one year old onto a railing 42" high?

 

[easyrider]

I just read through the 2010 Cruise Security and Safety Act and I didn't see anything about enclosed areas having to be enclosed. (Did I miss it?)

The act does require 42" railings which raises another point. Even if the grandpa was unaware of the window being open, why is he boosting a one year old onto a railing 42" high?

I didn't read the entire thing but it seems like the act was to design ships under International Code which would require that the openings at a certain height to only open 4 inches unless the opening has a safety screen.

There isn't any safety screen on this window in question and the opening is on the 11th deck. If it were a public building this would be a serious code violation. I think this code applies to the cruise ships that port in the USA.

I think the Cruise ship staff screwed up and not the grandfather.

Bill

 

[sail27bill]

I am with the parents on this one. 42 inches is not that high. At 2 and a half to 3 years old my daughter could jump and climb like you couldn't believe. Her upper body strength then and now is incredible. She started climbing out of a full size crib at 6 months (she was double jointed) and we had to anchor all furniture to the walls to prevent toppling when she was a year old. I could easily see her hanging onto the railing at 3, pulling herself up, sitting on the railing and falling out the window in a blink of an eye. My son who is five years older, would sometimes pick her up when she was 1-2 years old, and I could see him accidentally doing what the grandfather did. This was a children's play area...having an open window that low is negligent. Children do the craziest things, and safety should be paramount in an area designed for children. Other areas of the ship allows for some parental responsibility because it isn't designed or geared specifically towards children. But this was. Grandpa's sight might not have been good enough to distinguish that the window was open and not closed, or if he lost his grip because little ones squirm, I get it. But at eleven stories up, in a children's play area, the cruise line should have had guidelines in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening. Someone opened a window that shouldn't have been open. I grieve for the family. Their loss is profound and will never truly subside.

Anita

 

[am1]

Our first cruise our sons were 20 months and very active. They got away from us and were running down the hallway and every cabin door was open. It was a balcony level. Very happy when we found them. It was on a different floor.

 

[Gypsy65]

By that logic the cruise ship would be liable if a passenger climbed up on one of the outside railings, then fell overboard. Are you saying that any open area like that should be somehow barricaded? Heck, I could have fallen off the balcony in our stateroom.

I totally agree
Society is sue happy and becoming dumber every day

The recommendation to lock it down is crazy!!!

I’m on a cruise right now and hear people bitching about the glass obstruction on the top deck

People want it their way right up until someone can sue. Then it’s someone else’s fault for not having it safer

Safe is a rubber room. Lock people like this who bitch about everything the hell up!!

 

[Gypsy65]

Maybe make everyone wear life jackets, put toddler on leashes. And yes, I am kidding............somewhat.

Or
Make the parents watch their kids???

Yeah. Parents watch your kids. Not my job or the cruise lines job or anyone else’s job

It’s the parents and if they can’t. Take them away

Life is not safe. Period!!
We had lawn darts. Smoking parents. Etc
And we all lived
Now it’s bubble wrap and trophy’s for everyone

 

[easyrider]

I totally agree
Society is sue happy and becoming dumber every day

The recommendation to lock it down is crazy!!!

I’m on a cruise right now and hear people bitching about the glass obstruction on the top deck

People want it their way right up until someone can sue. Then it’s someone else’s fault for not having it safer

Safe is a rubber room. Lock people like this who bitch about everything the hell up!!

I get what you are saying. I often feel the same way. In this case I don't because common sense would be that no window should be open in an enclosed area without a safety screen or opening limiter. It just isn't right to have this type of opening at this height that people can get too close to.

Bill

 

[Gypsy65]

The cruise we are on. Alaska. Has 1200 kids on it.
Not sure why? Many are too young for Disney memories yet alone Alaska

Maybe no kids on any cruise until they are 6’

 

[Gypsy65]

I ride.
Have since before I could peddle a bike

If I get caught in the rain. Wipe out and wreck my bike and kill the passenger can I sue Harley for the bike crashing?
They built it
Or maybe the tire company? They made them
Or why not the weather man? He said sunny all week

Where does it end?

 

[easyrider]

Or
Make the parents watch their kids???

Yeah. Parents watch your kids. Not my job or the cruise lines job or anyone else’s job

It’s the parents and if they can’t. Take them away

Life is not safe. Period!!
We had lawn darts. Smoking parents. Etc
And we all lived
Now it’s bubble wrap and trophy’s for everyone

I disagree. The cruise ship is responsible for every passenger on the vessel and they admit this. The little girl who fell 11 stories and died was being watched by an adult.

I do agree about the lawn darts, they were fun !!! I remember when it was legal to drink beer and drive. I remember people used to smoke in airplanes. I am kind of glad some things changed.

Where does it end?

For me, right now, lol.

Bill

 

[geist1223]

What has happened to personal responsibility and accountability? Why is everything the fault of some Corporation? Got to look for some deep pockets to pick? Now if the attorney and parents were simply instituting an action to get the Cruise Line to take some action to prevent such an accident in the future and rejecting any financial damages. Maybe prohibit all Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, etc. Maybe prohibit anyone under the age of 25 (about mature brain date) or over the age of 55 (possible onset of early dementia/Alzheimer's).

 

[Firepath]

Years ago we took our 3 and 5 yr. olds on a Disney Cruise. My husband insisted we could not have balcony because of the children. I can't imagine anyone purposely lifting a child to a window and not being able to see that it was open. So tragic!

 

[davidvel]

No. I'm saying the 2010 Cruise Vessel act requires enclosed areas to be enclosed and railings to be solid and 42 inches high. The open window is part of an enclosed view wall and should not be open when passengers are on board.

Bill

I didn't read the entire thing but it seems like the act was to design ships under International Code which would require that the openings at a certain height to only open 4 inches unless the opening has a safety screen....

Well you're a bit emphatic Bill despite your lack of citation. You first state the 2010 Cruise Vessel Act required this area to be enclosed (and presumably no open windows allowed), and then you say you didn't read the Act but you believe "it seems like the act" required certain opening sizes.

It's only fair to cite to your source before you tell others "no" and then make your unsupported claim.

 

[easyrider]

Dave, I certainly don't have a code answer regarding cruise ship windows. I think I said "seems like" regarding the windows. International building code requirements require buildings, probably not ships, to meet certain standards. The requirements apply to when the construction takes place meaning the codes for 2000 IBC may require different standards today. The ship was built in 2006 which is before the 2010 safety act was implemented. I was reading that anyone could open these windows.

My thought on the matter is that the cruise ship windows at 11 stories high should meet the same safety requirement that any structure this size has. Especially considering the use of this area of the ship.

All of the reports I have read on this claim this baby was not dangled out of a window. What I read is that she was up against the glass but there was no glass to support her where she fell out. I think it is ridiculous to have a window this size open at 11 stories high without a safety screen. Besides the issue of a freak accident like this one it would be very easy for items to go overboard and hit some one below.

The attorneys will sort it out. The people involved are not money grubbing out for money greedy dummies. The grandfather wasn't holding the baby out of the opening. The idea that these folks are responsible for this accident isn't at all fair, imo. I really don't get why anyone is supporting the cruise line in this matter. If it were you in these circumstances would you just roll over ?

This family's daughter died and if the window had a safety screen or a limiter, this child would be alive.

Bill

 

[pedro47]

This incident has open a can of worms for the cruise industry. IMO. How many incident liked this has occurred in the past eighty (80) years in this industry???

How many children have sailed on cruise ships for the past four (4) decades ???

How many incidents liked this have occurred on the #1 family Disney Cruise Lines ships?????

 

[Bunk]

Here is an article about what happened: https://www.southbendtribune.com/content/tncms/live/

According to the family attorney, the Grandfather was with Chloe in a children’s play area and lifted her onto a wooden railing to look out the window. It was a large wall of windows and Anello could not tell the pane was open, Winkleman said.

Chloe went to bang on the glass like she does at her 10-year-old brother’s hockey games, Winkleman said. He blamed the cruise line for having windows that passengers can open in a children’s play area.

“This was a tragic accident that was preventable,” he said. “This is a hidden danger.”

When questioned about whether Anello should have put his granddaughter on the railing, Winkleman said it a was reasonable decision because Anello thought all the windows were closed. He gave the example of someone walking into a glass door thinking it is open.

Looks like this happened before the ship left port.

I am the grandfather of an active 18 month old. Even if the window was open when it should have been closed, I would be haunted by the realization that I put my grandchild on a wooden railing and didn't hold on to her. I wouldn’t think that I made a reasonable decision. I wonder if one reason for a lawsuit would be to make the grandfather feel less guilty.

According to the article, it appears that the newer ships must prevent passengers from opening windows, but this ship was built before that law went into effect.

There may be a dispute about where the accident took place. The article doesn't say the width and height of the wooden railing.

 

[pedro47]

access forbidden could not open your web link.

 

[geist1223]

As had been said before the Grandfather's story has changed several tkmes.

 

[Big Matt]

What would have happened if the family was at the Grand Canyon and the grandfather dropped the kid to her death over a railing? How about the same at Niagara Falls? This is a very sad and unfortunate situation. Unless the objective is to make cruise ships safer, the family is gold digging.