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Legroom on Planes Has Been Shrinking for Years. It's About to Get Much, Much Worse

AJCts411

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At what point does this become a safety concern? At what point will a lawyer make the air carrier liable for the actions of a disturbed passenger due to the close quarters? The only way to stop this madness is with legislation, the airlines will see the small pitch and defend this actions by using the Johnny defense...well Johnny did it too. It's why I avoid flying as much as possible, I will drive up to a one night on the road. And no urgent need to be somewhere faster.
 

CanuckTravlr

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We also drive longer distances now to avoid air travel with its cramped economy sections and the hassles of security and having to be at the airport 2 or 3 hours ahead of flight time. We will also consider taking the train when it is available.

Since we now don't have time constraints, we usually drive to the southern USA in winter, spending a couple nights on the road each way. Of course, we have always enjoyed road trips, so I guess that helps. We have the luxury of taking more things with us, especially when staying in timeshares or condos. We also have the use of our own car, which is better-equipped and more comfortable than the average rental vehicle. Finally, we save the cost of a car rental and the airfare, so that helps, too.

Flying, unless flying in first class, has ceased to be fun. We place comfort and convenience well ahead of a low price, but I guess that we are fortunate enough to be able to choose. When we do fly, if it is much more than an hour in the air, we will almost always pay to upgrade to at least premium economy for the extra space and perks. We just figure we are paying the fare we would have paid anyway, if prices had increased with inflation from the old days.
 

bbodb1

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They only way this madness stops is if fewer people fly - and tell the airlines exactly why.
And we don't need Spock to calculate the odds of this occurring......even if we could reach him.....
 

bbodb1

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We also drive longer distances now to avoid air travel with its cramped economy sections and the hassles of security and having to be at the airport 2 or 3 hours ahead of flight time. We will also consider taking the train when it is available.

Since we now don't have time constraints, we usually drive to the southern USA in winter, spending a couple nights on the road each way. Of course, we have always enjoyed road trips, so I guess that helps. We have the luxury of taking more things with us, especially when staying in timeshares or condos. We also have the use of our own car, which is better-equipped and more comfortable than the average rental vehicle. Finally, we save the cost of a car rental and the airfare, so that helps, too.

Flying, unless flying in first class, has ceased to be fun. We place comfort and convenience well ahead of a low price, but I guess that we are fortunate enough to be able to choose. When we do fly, if it is much more than an hour in the air, we will almost always pay to upgrade to at least premium economy for the extra space and perks. We just figure we are paying the fare we would have paid anyway, if prices had increased with inflation from the old days.

One would think train travel would be making a comeback given that more people are traveling these days and they are likely getting tired of being treated like cattle.
I guess the economics still are not in favor of train travel (still not cost effective), and with the infrastructure of train travel having been neglected for so long it is likely going to be very expensive to make train travel feasible on a large scale (both numerically and geographically).
 

Passepartout

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The take-away here is to beware before booking that low cost Asian trip on an airline you've never heard of. If it works on Asia, you can bet that some U.S. carriers will try cramming some more seats in. I saw one suggested solution was to place the center seat (in 6-across configurations) a couple inches behind the aisle and window seats to give everyone a skosh more shoulder room and less conflict over armrests. They might even squeeze a 5-across configuration this way in CRJ type aircraft on short hauls.

Jim
 

vacationhopeful

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Train travel in the US is NOT like train travel in Europe. Done both. Multiple times.

US passenger trains are relegated to as lower for priority over freight trains. FEWER US train stations now operate than 50 years ago. And fewer freight trains also. I have lived in NJ for decades against with my yard backing up to freight train tracks. The small towns around me, had passenger trains .. which went 'away' in the late 1960-1970s.

I rode for years on one of the USA newest passenger built train services (PATCO Speed Line) from Lindenwold to Philadelphia over the Ben Franklin Bridge thru the tunnels of both Camden and Philadelphia's old subway and train services plus above ground right-of-ways.

And I travelled multiple times in Western and Eastern Europe (includling overnight coaches).

In 1970-1972, I took passenger trains from Philadelphia, Pa. to Deland, Flordia. My college years. Yes, there was a major international airport in Daytona Beach ... but you can't find it today. McCoy Air Force Base was deactivated near Orlando and air travel demand was heavy due to some amusement park nearby opening.

As for train passenger train service to Deland? Don't know ... but I do know FREIGHT trains have higher priority on the rail lines over passenger trains.
 

Passepartout

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As for train passenger train service to Deland? Don't know ... but I do know FREIGHT trains have higher priority on the rail lines over passenger trains.
It's actually this simple. The railroads OWN the tracks and rights-of-way. The gummint gave the land to them as incentive to build a rail network as long as more than 150 years ago. And freight pays better than passengers. A huge freight train is operated by one or two people. A passenger train takes dozens.

Air travel is by federally controlled routes, and controlled by FAA. Airports are taxpayer funded. Rail travel by passengers is largely as a 'courtesy' of the freight companies that own the rails.

Jim
 

bbodb1

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@vacationhopeful That's the point I was making on infrastructure with respect to rail lines - as much as I'd like to think rail service might be a viable travel option, the amount of infrastructure repair and development needed in the U.S. has to be astronomical. Kind of sad really as rail travel seems to be a much more civilized way to move about (if done correct). Out of curiosity, how long did the trip from Philadelphia to Deland take back in the day?
 

CanuckTravlr

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The final words in the movie "The Bridge on the River Kwai" with Alec Guinness, Jack Hawkins and William Holden. :cool::cool:

One of my all-time favourite movies. My Dad (may he RIP) took me and my two brothers to see it. I have watched it in re-runs many times since. Good example of discipline that distorted into madness.
 

bbodb1

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The final words in the movie "The Bridge on the River Kwai" with Alec Guinness, Jack Hawkins and William Holden. :cool::cool:

One of my all-time favourite movies. My Dad (may he RIP) took me and my two brothers to see it. I have watched it in re-runs many times since. Good example of discipline that distorted into madness.

And one of mine as well.
The Bridge on the River Kwai is one of those movies - I don't care how many times I've watched - that as I am flipping through what is currently streaming/showing (we used to say flipping through the channels...another indicator of how time has changed) I WILL stop and watch it.

There are very few movies that I will watch multiple times but this is one of them.

AND SO SAY ALL OF US!
 

CanuckTravlr

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And one of mine as well.
The Bridge on the River Kwai is one of those movies - I don't care how many times I've watched - that as I am flipping through what is currently streaming/showing (we used to say flipping through the channels...another indicator of how time has changed) I WILL stop and watch it.

There are very few movies that I will watch multiple times but this is one of them.

AND SO SAY ALL OF US!

Agreed! A compelling movie by David Lean with an equally compelling story. One of those few movies I can watch over and over again (and have done). Plus I love to whistle "Colonel Bogey" with them as they march into camp!! :D:D:D
 

moonstone

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Yes, there was a major international airport in Daytona Beach ... but you can't find it today.

The Daytona International Airport (DAB, http://www.flydaytonafirst.com/ ) is still in its same spot and still operational, it is just hidden behind the now massive Daytona International Speedway racetrack. American, Delta and Sunwing have regular flights in and out of DAB.


~Diane
 

Ken555

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This topic is a reason to be an informed traveler. Seatguru and other sites help with air travel planning, though no specific plane type is guaranteed and can change on day of flight. Seat width and legroom constraints is another reason why it’s not uncommon for me to pay for more legroom or even a higher class on longer routes, which is exactly what the airline is expecting.

I can handle regular economy for domestic travel and often am in the back of the plane to/from Hawaii, but it’s only a ~6 hour flight. Going to Europe is another matter altogether, and I’ve promised myself to not go in anything less than Premium Economy, which I’m trying for the first time internationally next month.

Like timeshares, it’s all a game and the more you know the better your results.


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vacationhopeful

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@vacationhopeful ..... Out of curiosity, how long did the trip from Philadelphia to Deland take back in the day?

Dang ... those 49+ years have flown by. I would 'guess' about 20-22 hours for the train. I made that trip between Deland and home many times and in different means of transportation. I spent 2 years there (Freshman & Sophmore years) and when I returned from the Junior year Abroad (I went to Rugters in NJ), I had a car.

Dang, I made MONEY at Rutgers U...I was the RJE site manager at Livingston College/Rutgers U. I took my car when I returned to Deland for my 'senior' year. I don't remember much about that time ... I was getting flown out for job interviews at least twice a month. No Facebook in those days ... would just post the job interviews/offers on my door in the dorm.

The Trailsway bus stopped in front of the airport and went down State Highway 17/92, stopping in front of the college.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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One would think train travel would be making a comeback given that more people are traveling these days and they are likely getting tired of being treated like cattle.
I guess the economics still are not in favor of train travel (still not cost effective), and with the infrastructure of train travel having been neglected for so long it is likely going to be very expensive to make train travel feasible on a large scale (both numerically and geographically).
Correct. It will continue up to the point that that people stop accepting less legroom for lower fares.

Actually, what is happening is that airlines are including seating sections with more legroom, buy you have to pay extra for those seats. So it's moving toward a a model where you can have choices among legroom and fares. Which makes sense - one size doesn't fit all.
 

Talent312

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IMHO small regional jets are often more comfortable than large cross-country jets.
They usually have 2 seats on each side (no middle seats) and boarding is easier.
They just don't seem to be as cramped.
 

Ken555

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IMHO small regional jets are often more comfortable than large cross-country jets.
They usually have 2 seats on each side (no middle seats) and boarding is easier.
They just don't seem to be as cramped.

Um...no. Perhaps when no one is sitting next to you. Otherwise, here’s an example AA E190:

Main Cabin: Pitch 31, Width 16.5


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