Children of seniors - how to know when things need to change

[klpca]

My dad is 81 and in relatively good health. To me he seems just fine other than that he probably couldn't be any more critical if he tried. Nothing is ever good enough or right. Whatever. I do call him out on that.

He recently flew to Hawaii by himself for a high school reunion and to see family. I am hearing reports that it hasn't gone well. Of course old cranky dude has rubbed people the wrong way (duh) but apparently there was an incontinence issue (ugh) and a refusal to bathe afterwards (what??). He is obviously depressed - he lost his wife in October and had to move in with my brother - long story there - and has no friends. His entire social life was through his late wife. I try to have him down for a few days each month to change things up, but boy is he challenging.

For those of you who have been through this - how do you help someone like this? I am at a loss. Should he still be traveling alone? Driving? He says that he is "fine" and I am sure that he believes that but I am not so sure. Where do families start from here? Are there organizations for seniors who don't need to be in assisted living but are starting to have some decline? I'm clueless. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[chellej]

Katherine

You have my sympathy....this is so hard. I was lucky in that after my dad had 2 near misses he handed me his keys. I wish I had some advice but it is a really difficult situation.

 

[moonstone]

I am sorry that you are going through this but it eventually happens to most of us. My parents are 88 and I am also going through it. Your dad is probably still depressed after the death of his wife. One of the signs of depression are neglect of ones hygiene and his crankiness could also be one. Early stages of dementia also have the same symptoms. When my Mom stopped caring about the way she looked (not washing & curling her hair every few days, wearing dirty clothes, not wearing make-up when going out) I knew she was in the early stages of dementia. She also became cranky and said things totally out of character for her. She is now in a nursing home and my dad is still living in their house on his own (with a lot of my help!).

I don't know what services are available where you live, perhaps a Google search could come up with something. Here in Ontario we have a thing called Community Care Access Center which is a government run agency. They determine the extent of physical or mental impairment and explain what help is available for it. They also put the person on a wait list for a nursing home if that is desired by the family and the assessment. I called them when I first saw the signs in my Mom. They started a file on both my Mom & Dad and sent a specially trained gerontologist RN to do an assessment on Mom. By asking a lot of questions and watching Mom do a few things (make tea, explain how the washing machine works) she was able to determine what kind and how much help Mom needed. They were a wealth of information for us and especially for my dad who at first thought she was either 'putting on an act' or would get better. Since I worked in a long term care home at that time, I knew what was happening and what would be coming.

I would start by talking to your dad's doctor (alone) and telling the Dr what is happening. A lot of times since people only see their Dr for a few minutes every few months or less, and often the Dr cant pick-up on anything abnormal. Write out a list of incidents with details to take to the appointment. Maybe the Dr will have some suggestions on how to proceed or what agencies are in your area.

Good luck & best wishes.


~Diane

 

[bogey21]

Just remember what you are going through so you won't put your kids through it. My Brother and I had problems like you describe with our Dad. I swore I would never put my kids through it so when I hit 65 I moved into a CCRC (19 years later I am still here and am now 84). I have also told my kids I will stop driving in April 2022 which is when my DL expires. If I sense I need to do it sooner, I will give my car to charity and start using Uber or Lyft. There is no way my kids will suffer from my senility, stupidity or whatever you want to call it...

George

 

[Cornell]

I have been through this and am still living through it with my mother. A slow decline of hygiene, refusal to deal with incontinence management, and lack of interest in many things. Many people immediately think "depression" -- it is also a sign of dementia. Dementia presents itself in many ways, one of which is apathy and lack of executive function. Both are symptoms you describe and that my mother has. And to this day she still says she is "fine". My advance to you would be to start thinking long and hard now about next steps for your dad's living arrangements. It is never fun to make these decisions in the midst of a crisis.

We had my mother take a driving assessment at a local hospital and she failed that. That ultimately gave us the bargaining chip to force the stoppage of driving.

At this point, you could start some home health care with your Dad. That's what we did . He most likely will push back especially if he thinks he's fine.

These situations are VERY hard.

My mother lives a "full service" retirement community. When she moved in she lived in fully independent living but is slowly transitioning to different living facilities there. She is currently in assisted living and we pay extra for incontinence management. She is now refusing to go to the dining room for meals and insists on all meals being brought up to her room. GRRRRR. They also have a memory care facility, which may be down the line for her and then there is skilled nursing. It is a huge relief to know we have everything she needs right where she lives.

 

[Cornell]

Just remember what you are going through so you won't put your kids through it. My Brother and I had problems like you describe with our Dad. I swore I would never put my kids through it so when I hit 65 I moved into a CCRC (19 years later I am still here and am now 84). I have also told my kids I will stop driving in April 2022 which is when my DL expires. If I sense I need to do it sooner, I will give my car to charity and start using Uber or Lyft. There is no way my kids will suffer from my senility, stupidity or whatever you want to call it...

George

George - KUDOS to you. This is what my mom did -- she moved into her senior community when she was fully independent b/c she didn't want to be a burden to us. As I describe above it was the best give she ever gave her children. You are a good man.

 

[Luanne]

Katharine, I am sorry that you, and anyone else who has gone through, or is going through this, has to do so.

I was extremely blessed that my sister and bil wanted to take my mom in. Mom moved in not too long after my dad passed away. She must have been in her 70's at that point and was still very independent. She gave up her keys after she'd had knee surgery and hadn't been able to drive for quite awhile before the surgery. Her driver's license lapsed during that time, and she didn't make any effort to renew it. I think she somewhat mourned the loss of independence, but my bil said she needed to stop driving. She would have been in her late 70's early 80's at that point I think.

Over the years her health remained pretty good, but her short term memory was going. She made it to her 98th birthday, still living with my sister and bil and passed away peacefully at their home.

 

[silentg]

We have been there too with our parents. Be sure he is drinking enough water, he can be dehydrated or have UTI, especially since his hygiene isn’t what it used to be.
When he has a dr appointment ask your brother to go with him and have the dr do an assessment test.
There are senior centers that will help with activities, in home aids etc.
Your Dad will probably resist this but if presented in a positive way, can sometimes be welcomed.
Start with meals on wheels, they deliver lunch and will give him someone to talk to even if just for a few minutes.
Silentg

 

[bogey21]

You all won't like this one but I'll tell you anyway. When I was approaching 65 I had a wife aged 45. We had been married about 22 years and had 3 kids, 2 of which had moved out and a Daughter in her Senior year of High School. Because we were at different stages of life we decided we would both be better off going our own ways. We decided to divorce so my wife (who had been a stay at home Mom) could start a career which required relocating. We discussed it with our Daughter who said she was fine staying with Dad during her Senior Year in HS so her Mom could sign on as a Flight Attendant with American Airlines (a job she still holds). My ex remarried about 10 years ago and with her new husband's blessing she and I talk every two weeks or so (we also communicate via email). She, I, our kids and her husband get together on Xmas and on one (sometimes two) of the kids birthdays. All I can say it that it has worked out well for everyone...

George

 

[Cornell]

We have been there too with our parents. Be sure he is drinking enough water, he can be dehydrated or have UTI, especially since his hygiene isn’t what it used to be.
When he has a dr appointment ask your brother to go with him and have the dr do an assessment test.
There are senior centers that will help with activities, in home aids etc.
Your Dad will probably resist this but if presented in a positive way, can sometimes be welcomed.
Start with meals on wheels, they deliver lunch and will give him someone to talk to even if just for a few minutes.
Silentg

You bring up a great point with this whole UTI thing. For those of you new to "senior care", they frequently suffer from UTIs and the symptoms present themselves in all sorts of weird ways. That is one of the first things we test my mom now for if symptoms, strange behaviors, etc crop up.

 

[rapmarks]

You bring up a great point with this whole UTI thing. For those of you new to "senior care", they frequently suffer from UTIs and the symptoms present themselves in all sorts of weird ways. That is one of the first things we test my mom now for if symptoms, strange behaviors, etc crop up.

You sound like a good caring daughter.

 

[Cornell]

You sound like a good caring daughter.

Awe - thank you. I hit the jackpot and got wonderful parents. I am fortunate, too, that I have 4 siblings and we all work closely together regarding my mother's care. So the work is spread among 5 of us. I have seen where parent care creates massive divisions within adult children relationships. Hasn't happened with us -- we respect each other & know when we need a break from it. Our strong relationships is one of my parent's greatest legacies, in my opinion.

 

[Passepartout]

This is hard. You folks are talking about US. We're early 70's. I'm doing fine with some physical signs of things requiring some help. But my DW- I'm seeing her hygiene slipping. Longer intervals between showers. Several days in the same clothes. 'Soiled' nightclothes. And if it's brought up, she gets darn near hostile. Her driving around town is OK, though she isn't very observant of surroundings, but we're both more comfortable if I handle the highway driving. Upcoming I have a couple of medical procedures that will have me on 'light duty' for a period. We have a network of friends and can afford help, but it's hard to get DW to recognize that her abilities are not what she remembers being able (or having desire) to do.

So it goes...

Jim

 

[Tank]

It will be tough, they think they don't need help but you know when they do.
You know when they shouldn't be driving. Let them drive you, or your kids, when you go somewhere, if you don't than they probably shouldn't be driving.
These decisions are tough, we had brought up concerns to the doctor and do to hippa it couldn't be discussed with us. So getting the proper paperwork filled out so you can be helpful when needed and get medical info will help.

The one helping the most normally will be the one disliked because your sticking your nose in his / her business. Others not helping / interfering will be put on a pedi stool.
Have to do what is right in your heart, we did and no regrets. We have been thru the war knowing we helped them be as safe and comfortable as possible.

You are lucky to have the sibling help, stick together !
Dave

 

[WVBaker]

You all won't like this one but I'll tell you anyway. When I was approaching 65 I had a wife aged 45. We had been married about 22 years and had 3 kids, 2 of which had moved out and a Daughter in her Senior year of High School. Because we were at different stages of life we decided we would both be better off going our own ways. We decided to divorce so my wife (who had been a stay at home Mom) could start a career which required relocating. We discussed it with our Daughter who said she was fine staying with Dad during her Senior Year in HS so her Mom could sign on as a Flight Attendant with American Airlines (a job she still holds). My ex remarried about 10 years ago and with her new husband's blessing she and I talk every two weeks or so (we also communicate via email). She, I, our kids and her husband get together on Xmas and on one (sometimes two) of the kids birthdays. All I can say it that it has worked out well for everyone...

George

George, why wouldn't we like this?

Sounds as though all involved handled a very difficult time in your life in a way that works for all. Separations and divorce can become far more darker for anyone going through it.

 

[rapmarks]

This is hard. You folks are talking about US. We're early 70's. I'm doing fine with some physical signs of things requiring some help. But my DW- I'm seeing her hygiene slipping. Longer intervals between showers. Several days in the same clothes. 'Soiled' nightclothes. And if it's brought up, she gets darn near hostile. Her driving around town is OK, though she isn't very observant of surroundings, but we're both more comfortable if I handle the highway driving. Upcoming I have a couple of medical procedures that will have me on 'light duty' for a period. We have a network of friends and can afford help, but it's hard to get DW to recognize that her abilities are not what she remembers being able (or having desire) to do.

So it goes...

Jim

Yes, we have problems too, my husband is in middle stage dementia, hygiene is fine though, but it is very hard. If something happens to me, I don’t know what will happen. My daughter is less than two blocks away, in a house we own, but can’t be bothered to check on us. When I was in the hospital, she sent her baby sitter to ask my husband if he was okay. If I start talking about my daughter and her lack of help, I won’t be able to stop. My son acts like he wants to help, but on his few visits, he books the time up with entertainment. I could use some help, I can’t do heavy work, I can’t kneel on my replacement knee to get to some things. For years any visit to my mother was to help her, not to go off shopping and having fun. Can they give me one hour, twice a year.

 

[silentg]

Yes, we have problems too, my husband is in middle stage dementia, hygiene is fine though, but it is very hard. If something happens to me, I don’t know what will happen. My daughter is less than two blocks away, in a house we own, but can’t be bothered to check on us. When I was in the hospital, she sent her baby sitter to ask my husband if he was okay. If I start talking about my daughter and her lack of help, I won’t be able to stop. My son acts like he wants to help, but on his few visits, he books the time up with entertainment. I could use some help, I can’t do heavy work, I can’t kneel on my replacement knee to get to some things. For years any visit to my mother was to help her, not to go off shopping and having fun. Can they give me one hour, twice a year.

Sorry this is happening, you should reach out to Senior Care in your area for help.

 

[WVBaker]

As for the driving, many adults are capable of driving safely, even into their 80s. However, keep in mind that we all age differently. Given your Dad's incontinence issues, it may be time to consider other means of transportation rather than him driving himself. Having that occur while driving will bring on a great deal of distraction. Remember, individuals that age are far more likely to suffer serious injuries, require a great deal of hospitalization or even die, when compared to a younger person involved in the exact same crash. Try not to wait until that happens to take action.

You need to have him understand that this is not just about him, it's also about all those people he shares the road with. It may not be easy because, driving represents independence to him. However, it may just save his life.

 

[rapmarks]

Sorry this is happening, you should reach out to Senior Care in your area for help.

I called Alzheimer’s 800 number. Woman was an amateur counselor and tried to analyze me. Gave me a little information, but not the best. But did put me on the email list, where I get a daily email asking for money. However, we had a meeting last week, and the woman in charge of the assistance program is supposed to come over and go over what’s available, and some contact information about Florida help.

 

[Passepartout]

Yes, we have problems too, my husband is in middle stage dementia, hygiene is fine though, but it is very hard. If something happens to me, I don’t know what will happen. My daughter is less than two blocks away, in a house we own, but can’t be bothered to check on us. When I was in the hospital, she sent her baby sitter to ask my husband if he was okay. If I start talking about my daughter and her lack of help, I won’t be able to stop. My son acts like he wants to help, but on his few visits, he books the time up with entertainment. I could use some help, I can’t do heavy work, I can’t kneel on my replacement knee to get to some things. For years any visit to my mother was to help her, not to go off shopping and having fun. Can they give me one hour, twice a year.

I can commiserate. DW's 2 grown boys each live 800 miles away. No help there. One brought his wife over Spring break and really busted his butt helping. We had him pruning, cleaning out a storage unit, and doing heavy work while they were here. His brother wants us to wait on him while he 'trains' for decathlon including me being his short-order cook. But I digress- If you REALLY just want an occasional hour of help with heavy stuff, why not call a local Manpower or Job Service where you can have a man or two come and put in some time helping. We have an 'alternative' high school and they have a job counselor who brings willing workers to your door and picks then up after you release them. You need to manage these hourly workers- they are NOT mind readers that know what you want done, or know how you want it done, but we've found it a life saver to be able to have some help on short notice that we can just put to work without feeling that we're 'putting out' family. We budget $10 per worker per hour and have found that's enough.

Give it a try and get some relief.

Jim

 

[geist1223]

Good luck. Hopefully if there is more than one sibling all are tuned in and supportive. When Patti and I noticed the start of my Mom's decline we tried to get her to look at Assisted Living. No way was her answer. She convinced my brothers we were trying to have her committed. Mom lived in Corvallis Oregon. We live in Salem Oregon. My brothers were in the Bay Area, Colorado, and Denmark. They saw Mom once a year, maybe. Then Mom almost set her kitchen on fire with a pot of oil she set on High and forgot about. We got more serious about Assisted Living. No help from brothers. A year goes by and Mom has a stroke, loses sight in one eye, etc. Still no help or assitance. Not even moral support. So in 3 months Mom has 3 strokes and ends up with Multi-infarct Dementia. I have always wondered if we had had more support 2-3 years earlier with Mom in Assisted Living with somebody monitoring her Med's would the results have been different. Let's just say my relationships with my Brothers have never been the same.

 

[bogey21]

If you REALLY just want an occasional hour of help with heavy stuff, why not call a local Manpower or Job Service where you can have a man or two come and put in some time helping...Give it a try and get some relief.

The Internet makes finding help so easy today. When I was getting my Son's house prepared for sale (his schedule in the Permian is 20 day on, 10 days off) I needed residual furniture and multiple boxes of trash taken to the dump and what turned out to be 30 super large trash bags of leaves raked and disposed of. In both cases I found guys on the Internet who did a superb job. Each time it cost me about $125 which I found reasonable...

George

 

[bogey21]

I have always wondered if we had had more support 2-3 years earlier with Mom in Assisted Living with somebody monitoring her Med's would the results have been different.

I think the answer is a resounding "Yes". I live in a CCRC where maybe 20% of the Residents are either in Assisted Living or have 24 hour live in help. Those with live in help are the one with lots of money. Do the math for the live in help. It is $18 per hour x 24 hours in a day times 30 days in a month. For those a little slow on the math that is about $13,000 + their apartment rent per month. But the bottom line is all these people whether in Assisted Living or with 24 hour care are living out their waning days with care and relative dignity...

George

 

[clifffaith]

It will be tough, they think they don't need help but you know when they do.
You know when they shouldn't be driving. Let them drive you, or your kids, when you go somewhere, if you don't than they probably shouldn't be driving.
These decisions are tough, we had brought up concerns to the doctor and do to hippa it couldn't be discussed with us. So getting the proper paperwork filled out so you can be helpful when needed and get medical info will help.

The one helping the most normally will be the one disliked because your sticking your nose in his / her business. Others not helping / interfering will be put on a pedi stool.
Have to do what is right in your heart, we did and no regrets. We have been thru the war knowing we helped them be as safe and comfortable as possible.

You are lucky to have the sibling help, stick together !
Dave

Hippa can be a real PITA. We are still pissed 5 years later that my sister was taken via ambulance from her shrink's office and shrink didn't inform my parents in spite of knowing Hope lived with them. Mom now has signed paperwork so that shouldn't happen again.

 

[b2bailey]

Awe - thank you. I hit the jackpot and got wonderful parents. I am fortunate, too, that I have 4 siblings and we all work closely together regarding my mother's care. So the work is spread among 5 of us. I have seen where parent care creates massive divisions within adult children relationships. Hasn't happened with us -- we respect each other & know when we need a break from it. Our strong relationships is one of my parent's greatest legacies, in my opinion.

I like what you wrote about strong sibling relationships. Apparently my folks failed on that count. Any hints about how they accompanied this?