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Rescinding should not be automatic response

GregT

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My good friend purchased 15,000 trust points direct. I told him that he should consider rescinding or only buying 7500 and renting the difference because he was able to get sufficient access at that time at that level. He didn’t care and he has the money to not worry about it.

We also discussed just buying the points resale, and he pointed out that that would take 3 to 4 months to close and he would miss his window to make a reservation for the next year. Which was important to him. I offered to rent points and make the reservation for him but he didn’t want to “inconvenience me”.

So he at least understood his options and I do agree with Carlito that sometimes the automatic rescind may not be the right advice. I would have rescinded and waited but he has money to have this not be a hardship.

Best,

Greg
 

Quilter

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Hi Greg. Your post brought to mind so many questions.

The 15,000 gives your friend a certain level. Forgive me, I’m not versed in the points per level. What level (status) did he get with his purchase? Does he understand that point status will not trump owners using their weeks at home resorts?

What is his age and income level?

Did you talk to him alone or is he married and you talked to him and his wife?

Children?

Has he ever purchased other property impulsively?

Did he understand that for the amount he’s laying out on the purchase that you could charge a reasonable rental rate negating any trouble or inconvenience?

I thought about the friends I have who let me book them rooms. There are the ones who think it’s great and then there’s the couple who went out and bought a Disney developers week because they had the money.
 

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He gets Chairmans Club.
 

kds4

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He gets Chairmans Club.

Which is the current top tier of MVC ownership. If MVC continues with past practice, as the number of owned points required to obtain a tier continue to rise and/or new tiers are introduced into the ownership program, he should continue to float up/maintain his top tier status (whether still called Chairman's Club or something else).
 

Passepartout

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I think I might have gone off a little half-cocked- being defensive of my automatic rescind response. I had not noticed that this thread is specific to the Marriott Forum.

My feeling is that most folks who find themselves at Marriott presentations are fairly well heeled travelers, and are used to a 'certain level' of comfort, service, luxury, and expense. Also, Marriott as well as other hotel branded 5**** timeshare brands are protected by ROFR of resales. In other words, These TS's have an 'exit plan'.

This differs significantly from most first-time posters here who come to TUG fresh from a presentation/purchase at someplace like Wastegate/DRI/Wyndham/ or other 'mass market' timeshare developers who discount their initial visits and herd the initiated into uninformed buying in loud, rowdy, high pressure sales rooms. All those visitors want is a cheap vacation. Not ONE of them went to that presentation to buy a timeshare. Unlike the 'typical' Marriott buyer who tends to be more informed and actually goes in expecting to pay for the upscale experience.

So anyway, I apologize if I inadvertently urged an informed first-timer to rescind a Marriott purchase. But I won't apologize for recommending an UNINFORMED buyer who feels that they were pressured into buying something they don't understand to rescind and learn what timeshare is all about. And after they become informed, perhaps they'll end up buying Marriott (or other high end TS) and living happily ever after.

Jim
 

kds4

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I think I might have gone off a little half-cocked- being defensive of my automatic rescind response. I had not noticed that this thread is specific to the Marriott Forum.

My feeling is that most folks who find themselves at Marriott presentations are fairly well heeled travelers, and are used to a 'certain level' of comfort, service, luxury, and expense. Also, Marriott as well as other hotel branded 5**** timeshare brands are protected by ROFR of resales. In other words, These TS's have an 'exit plan'.

This differs significantly from most first-time posters here who come to TUG fresh from a presentation/purchase at someplace like Wastegate/DRI/Wyndham/ or other 'mass market' timeshare developers who discount their initial visits and herd the initiated into uninformed buying in loud, rowdy, high pressure sales rooms. All those visitors want is a cheap vacation. Not ONE of them went to that presentation to buy a timeshare. Unlike the 'typical' Marriott buyer who tends to be more informed and actually goes in expecting to pay for the upscale experience.

So anyway, I apologize if I inadvertently urged an informed first-timer to rescind a Marriott purchase. But I won't apologize for recommending an UNINFORMED buyer who feels that they were pressured into buying something they don't understand to rescind and learn what timeshare is all about. And after they become informed, perhaps they'll end up buying Marriott (or other high end TS) and living happily ever after.

Jim

A lot of truth here. Years ago, DW and I went to a Wyndham presentation in Myrtle Beach. I believe we were offered vouchers for some sort of local attractions. I was more curious to see what a non-Marriott presentation/product was like (maybe to validate our previous choice to become Marriott owners - not because I wanted to actually purchase a non-Marriott product unless it was actually better). Jim's description of the presentation experience is spot on. It was chaotic, high-pressure, and when we went to visit their local 'flagship' property to 'close the deal', it was not up to what I would have considered to be an entry-level MVC property. That's not meant to come across as snobbish but simply a comparison of the quality of construction, amenities, and furnishings of this 'top' Wyndham property. For most persons experiencing that, I would automatically say rescind and research other systems for comparison before making a purchase.
 

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Off the top, can think of enough to take up more than one hand, maybe getting close to two hands...and I'm still thinking. I might get to my toes yet!
My point is that they are the exception rather than the rule. If the person is a TUG regular, then they have likely done their research but many people bought 1,000 point packages in the early days of DC that were probably not well thought out. There are very few here who have done the research beforehand, so rescind is the right response.

I think just letting people know that the option of rescission is there, some people may be coming here after buying a timeshare, being a first time poster, and not even know they have a right of rescission or don't understand the clock is ticking. Even if you did your research, there may be other perspectives that you didn't think of that end up making rescinding the best advice.
 

dioxide45

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My feeling is that most folks who find themselves at Marriott presentations are fairly well heeled travelers, and are used to a 'certain level' of comfort, service, luxury, and expense. Also, Marriott as well as other hotel branded 5**** timeshare brands are protected by ROFR of resales. In other words, These TS's have an 'exit plan'.
They may have an exit plan, but the exit is still a very expensive exit. Even Marriott DC Trust points lose about 60-70% of their value the day after the rescission period ends. That may also be something that the first time relatively informed buyer doesn't know.
 

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They may have an exit plan, but the exit is still a very expensive exit. Even Marriott DC Trust points lose about 60-70% of their value the day after the rescission period ends. That may also be something that the first time relatively informed buyer doesn't know.

Hopefully, a better formal exit plan with a higher ROI is in the works.
 

CalGalTraveler

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I think I might have gone off a little half-cocked- being defensive of my automatic rescind response. I had not noticed that this thread is specific to the Marriott Forum.

My feeling is that most folks who find themselves at Marriott presentations are fairly well heeled travelers, and are used to a 'certain level' of comfort, service, luxury, and expense. Also, Marriott as well as other hotel branded 5**** timeshare brands are protected by ROFR of resales. In other words, These TS's have an 'exit plan'.

This differs significantly from most first-time posters here who come to TUG fresh from a presentation/purchase at someplace like Wastegate/DRI/Wyndham/ or other 'mass market' timeshare developers who discount their initial visits and herd the initiated into uninformed buying in loud, rowdy, high pressure sales rooms. All those visitors want is a cheap vacation. Not ONE of them went to that presentation to buy a timeshare. Unlike the 'typical' Marriott buyer who tends to be more informed and actually goes in expecting to pay for the upscale experience.

So anyway, I apologize if I inadvertently urged an informed first-timer to rescind a Marriott purchase. But I won't apologize for recommending an UNINFORMED buyer who feels that they were pressured into buying something they don't understand to rescind and learn what timeshare is all about. And after they become informed, perhaps they'll end up buying Marriott (or other high end TS) and living happily ever after.

Jim

For this reason, we only attend presentations at MVC, Vistana, Hyatt and HGVC to avoid the high pressure circus.

99% of the posters who ask need to do a lot more research. For the 1% who want a sanity check, they can state upfront that they are experienced and want a sanity check. They can pass over the knee-jerk rescind. If all of the respondents responded negatively, they can pm a few they trust to double check. Nothing to lose by rescinding except time. A lot to lose by buying something with questions.
 

JIMinNC

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My point is that they are the exception rather than the rule. If the person is a TUG regular, then they have likely done their research but many people bought 1,000 point packages in the early days of DC that were probably not well thought out. There are very few here who have done the research beforehand, so rescind is the right response.

I think just letting people know that the option of rescission is there, some people may be coming here after buying a timeshare, being a first time poster, and not even know they have a right of rescission or don't understand the clock is ticking. Even if you did your research, there may be other perspectives that you didn't think of that end up making rescinding the best advice.

Agree 100%. But I think the "exceptions" were the situations that prompted the OP. One size doesn't fit all, so I think he was cautioning folks to make sure they understand the person posting's knowledge level before automatically jumping on the "rescind" bandwagon. While there haven't been many of those situations, I suspect there have been a lot more on the Marriott board than on TUG as whole.
 
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Big Matt

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Warren Buffet has a quote that says: "Never invest in a business that you don't understand."

I think that sums it up with regard to timeshares. Timeshares are complicated. There is a resale market. There are increasing costs and special assessments. You can trade them for other things (now even more things than before). They are weeks based, points based, have lock offs. There are multiple companies to buy into (Marriott, Hilton, Diamond, etc.). There are different trading companies. You can rent them. I can go on and on.

You need to be completely educated to make an informed decision. Only after you are educated will you know what you value and how much you should spend.

Rescind is always the best hedge if you don't know what you are buying or what you will do with it.
 

GregT

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Hi Greg. Your post brought to mind so many questions.

The 15,000 gives your friend a certain level. Forgive me, I’m not versed in the points per level. What level (status) did he get with his purchase? Does he understand that point status will not trump owners using their weeks at home resorts?

What is his age and income level?

Did you talk to him alone or is he married and you talked to him and his wife?

Children?

Has he ever purchased other property impulsively?

Did he understand that for the amount he’s laying out on the purchase that you could charge a reasonable rental rate negating any trouble or inconvenience?

I thought about the friends I have who let me book them rooms. There are the ones who think it’s great and then there’s the couple who went out and bought a Disney developers week because they had the money.

He is in his early 40's, two children (maybe 9 and 12 now? This was a few years ago). He spent $140K on the purchase and didn't need to finance it. He is married but I talked only to him, and not to his wife at the same time, which is an interesting observation. Our families had been going to Maui together for years and I know making the reservation for the following year had some value to him.

He did have problems that first year making the reservation and ended up having to make two reservations for 2BR OFs and trying to combine them -- but they were different room types (2BR L/O and 2BR Master of a 3BR). He wasn't happy about that...

Interesting case study. And clearly the ideal sales target for Marriott...

Best,

Greg
 

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Hi Greg. Your post brought to mind so many questions.

The 15,000 gives your friend a certain level. Forgive me, I’m not versed in the points per level. What level (status) did he get with his purchase? Does he understand that point status will not trump owners using their weeks at home resorts?

What is his age and income level?

Did you talk to him alone or is he married and you talked to him and his wife?

Children?

Has he ever purchased other property impulsively?

Did he understand that for the amount he’s laying out on the purchase that you could charge a reasonable rental rate negating any trouble or inconvenience?

I thought about the friends I have who let me book them rooms. There are the ones who think it’s great and then there’s the couple who went out and bought a Disney developers week because they had the money.

As Greg's response above seems to portray, to some people, convenience, control, and simplicity are more important than price. Greg's friend could have saved $40K by buying resale points instead, but getting the deal done was more important than the $$.

We are similar, in that often convenience and control are more important to us than the absolutely lowest price. I will pay more for convenience and control, but not $40K. But for someone with more significant financial resources, maybe $40K isn't that big of a deal for them, so the value is in the convenience and control. That's a key reason I am not willing to rent weeks from owners - the extra value of controlling my own reservation is more important than the potential cost savings from a rental from an owner.

As I've said over and over here on TUG...one size does not fit all.

And $40K is relative...as an extreme example, do you think Jeff Bezos might rent from an owner to save $40K? That's chump change to folks like that. Greg's friend may not be Bezos, but $40K may look different based on the seat you sit in.
 

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If its an informed decision that go for it. I have with FULL knowledge and intent, twice bought from a developer, because it was the deal I wanted. I purchased once ONLY directly from Wyndham a 160K purchase to obtain VIP Platinum Status. I also purchased from Tradewinds because I want to go more than once every 4 years, and, at the time, there was not much inventory available via resale market.
 

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My good friend purchased 15,000 trust points direct. I told him that he should consider rescinding or only buying 7500 and renting the difference because he was able to get sufficient access at that time at that level. He didn’t care and he has the money to not worry about it.

We also discussed just buying the points resale, and he pointed out that that would take 3 to 4 months to close and he would miss his window to make a reservation for the next year. Which was important to him. I offered to rent points and make the reservation for him but he didn’t want to “inconvenience me”.

So he at least understood his options and I do agree with Carlito that sometimes the automatic rescind may not be the right advice. I would have rescinded and waited but he has money to have this not be a hardship.

Best,

Greg

Agree These are good targets for MVC, HGVC developer. Many of my colleagues in tech have more money than time. Dropping $140k for something that doesn't make them have to expend more energy is not a stretch. Much less expense and hassle than a "second home."

We own a second home. Although the appreciation has been nice, it is a hassle. As we age, I envision selling the second home and just using our timeshares. It's nice to go on vacation and not have maintenance.
 
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Warren Buffet has a quote that says: "Never invest in a business that you don't understand."

I think that sums it up with regard to timeshares. Timeshares are complicated. There is a resale market. There are increasing costs and special assessments. You can trade them for other things (now even more things than before). They are weeks based, points based, have lock offs. There are multiple companies to buy into (Marriott, Hilton, Diamond, etc.). There are different trading companies. You can rent them. I can go on and on.

You need to be completely educated to make an informed decision. Only after you are educated will you know what you value and how much you should spend.

That only takes about 3 hours with a qualified presenter.

:D
 

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One of the things I notice here is that some on this site automatically without any questions asked tell a person who bought directly from the developer to rescind. I believe we should not always be so quick to tell people to rescind without hearing the whole story or getting more information.

There are times where you can come out ahead with the developer. It’s not always the case but it does happen. This can be especially true if a large amount of points are being purchased. The hybrid bundles are example, buying resale weeks and bringing them through Marriott are clear examples of developer purchase not necessarily being inferior to resale. We have seen some creative newbies navigate through some of these deals with the developer and do better or equal to resale.

Plus, you don’t get any freebies with resale purchases. I’m not saying to not ever suggest rescind but it should not be an automatic response.

Agreed, it is an extremely personal and financial decision. Purchasing “on the street” is not a cakewalk and buyer beware is more acute in that environment rather than purchasing with the developer. Each prospective purchaser must do their own cost benefit analysis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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One of the things I notice here is that some on this site automatically without any questions asked tell a person who bought directly from the developer to rescind. I believe we should not always be so quick to tell people to rescind without hearing the whole story or getting more information.

There are times where you can come out ahead with the developer. It’s not always the case but it does happen. This can be especially true if a large amount of points are being purchased. The hybrid bundles are example, buying resale weeks and bringing them through Marriott are clear examples of developer purchase not necessarily being inferior to resale. We have seen some creative newbies navigate through some of these deals with the developer and do better or equal to resale.

Plus, you don’t get any freebies with resale purchases. I’m not saying to not ever suggest rescind but it should not be an automatic response.
I don't think it is an automatic response but I think it is the automatic response when someone is new or uncertain. As noted, they can't always become better educated and buy retail later if that is best but they can spend a few weeks or months investigating then cancel later. I've owned maybe 80-90 weeks/contracts over the years, many of which I still do. Of those exactly 3 were retail purchases and all of those once I was well versed in the ins and outs of all products plus I bought my first Marriott resale direct from resale Sally. The first week I bought was a Surfwatch pre-construction week which made my resale weeks at Grande Ocean to be counted as retail. It was an OK choice at the time but the DC system make it a non issue so it didn't work out as well as I'd have liked. The second was a pre-construction DVC contract but get 4*25 points with the plans to dump all but 25 and sell everything else to have the perks but I never followed through on selling the rest including my BWV points. The last was just a couple of months ago an Aruba Platinum 3 BR with enrollment of our 7.5 non enrolled weeks. But it should be in context which I think is essentially what you're saying.
 

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Warren Buffet has a quote that says: "Never invest in a business that you don't understand."

I think that sums it up with regard to timeshares. Timeshares are complicated. There is a resale market. There are increasing costs and special assessments. You can trade them for other things (now even more things than before). They are weeks based, points based, have lock offs. There are multiple companies to buy into (Marriott, Hilton, Diamond, etc.). There are different trading companies. You can rent them. I can go on and on.

You need to be completely educated to make an informed decision. Only after you are educated will you know what you value and how much you should spend.

Rescind is always the best hedge if you don't know what you are buying or what you will do with it.

This makes sense in theory. But I don't think one can really fully understand timeshare or be completely educated until they test the waters. No doubt it should be an informed decision, but even then some will find that it is not for them. As you said timeshares are complicated. I bought developer, rescinded, and went on the "timeshare is the devil" kick for many years. Thought I learned my lesson.

Reluctantly agreed to to a Marriott "getaway" only because three other families were all going together. LOVED the product. Bought developer. FOUND TUG! Read like crazy. Learned lots. Consider myself sufficiently informed, but of course STILL LEARNING. Bought resale (non-marriott). Bought Marriott Developer 2x more. Bought points. Sold non-Marriott resale. Bought Marriott resale. Bought non-Marriott resale. Bought more DC points.

One just doesn't really know until they participate. Of course one should make an informed decision, but that is less than half the know.
 

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This makes sense in theory. But I don't think one can really fully understand timeshare or be completely educated until they test the waters. No doubt it should be an informed decision, but even then some will find that it is not for them. As you said timeshares are complicated. I bought developer, rescinded, and went on the "timeshare is the devil" kick for many years. Thought I learned my lesson.

Reluctantly agreed to to a Marriott "getaway" only because three other families were all going together. LOVED the product. Bought developer. FOUND TUG! Read like crazy. Learned lots. Consider myself sufficiently informed, but of course STILL LEARNING. Bought resale (non-marriott). Bought Marriott Developer 2x more. Bought points. Sold non-Marriott resale. Bought Marriott resale. Bought non-Marriott resale. Bought more DC points.

One just doesn't really know until they participate. Of course one should make an informed decision, but that is less than half the know.

I can describe the taste of salt to you with plenty of charts, graphics, testimonials, etc. but will you really understand it until you try it?
 

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Better to try it with a resale from a reputable broker. Much less cost and risk.
 

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Better to try it with a resale from a reputable broker. Much less cost and risk.

We've bought and sold MVC units on eBay in the past with no difficulties (and those units tend to be cheaper for buyers, and quicker for sellers).
 

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How did I miss this thread until now? :ponder:

What I gather, the arguments are:
- there should be no automatic response to rescind when one posts about their new direct points purchase
- people should always err on the side of caution and tell the poster to rescind then analyze later, due to the tight window and delays in poster coming back, etc., and the loss of the chance to rescind, but the original deal is never really lost

I side with Brian and others that any person coming here asking any questions about a recent developer purchase should be told to rescind immediately. There is too much risk that time will pass and rescission will be lost costing thousands if that's the ultimate (informed, reasoned) decision, and there is little to no chance the same deal won't be there. ie., little to no downside.

Some argue that there may a bunch of posts to a person who has already thought out the decision (or think they have thought of everything), and they shouldn't have to face the inglorious comments about their decision. My response is too bad, and that's what the board is all about. (No, not demeaning, attacking or otherwise violating the rules.) That's the price to pay for posting and the situation described is probably less than 5% of all such posts.

If the person is really so sensitive that they don't want the "rescind" responses, and they are as thought out in their decision to buy developer and highly knowledgeable about Marriott sales as people suggest, then can easily just say "I'm past my rescission period..." at the outset of their post and it will solve all the "problems" described in this thread.
 

OldGuy

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I think I might have gone off a little half-cocked- being defensive of my automatic rescind response. I had not noticed that this thread is specific to the Marriott Forum.

My feeling is that most folks who find themselves at Marriott presentations are fairly well heeled travelers, and are used to a 'certain level' of comfort, service, luxury, and expense. Also, Marriott as well as other hotel branded 5**** timeshare brands are protected by ROFR of resales. In other words, These TS's have an 'exit plan'.

This differs significantly from most first-time posters here who come to TUG fresh from a presentation/purchase at someplace like Wastegate/DRI/Wyndham/ or other 'mass market' timeshare developers who discount their initial visits and herd the initiated into uninformed buying in loud, rowdy, high pressure sales rooms. All those visitors want is a cheap vacation. Not ONE of them went to that presentation to buy a timeshare. Unlike the 'typical' Marriott buyer who tends to be more informed and actually goes in expecting to pay for the upscale experience.

So anyway, I apologize if I inadvertently urged an informed first-timer to rescind a Marriott purchase. But I won't apologize for recommending an UNINFORMED buyer who feels that they were pressured into buying something they don't understand to rescind and learn what timeshare is all about. And after they become informed, perhaps they'll end up buying Marriott (or other high end TS) and living happily ever after.

Jim

Telling it like it is.

:thumbup:
 
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