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Anyone put their HGVC into a trust?

CalGalTraveler

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Can a recipient of a trust upon death accept most assets but reject the timeshares?
 

csodjd

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We have our timeshares listed in our trust on a separate page. So our timeshares aren't titled to the trust, but the timeshares are listed as assets. I think that our lawyer told us that we would be allowed a certain dollar amount and if they weren't worth more than that, then we didn't need to go through retitling everything. Now, it's been 18 months since we put the trust together, so who knows if we did the right thing, but we can always change it. We were assuming that we would like to sell off most of the timeshares before we die, but if we die before we do, then the lawyer said that the list would suffice. Of course, we've added our two HGVCs since the trust was done, so those are missing completely right now.
If your attorney is an experienced wills and trusts/estate planning attorney, you can probably trust that. If not, I'd check with one that is. My understanding, since this is an interest in real property, is that the deed must be held in the name of the trustee in that capacity. Otherwise we'd just "list" our home and investment accounts and car, etc., and not bother with the title of those things. I believe title controls. However, I'm NOT a trust attorney.

Do remember that a living trust is a legal fiction. There is no such thing as an entity. It does not actually exist. It is simply a legal fiction for estate purposes as a non-probate way to handle your "stuff." A trust cannot sue or be sued, for instance. Only the trustee can.
 

1Kflyerguy

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Can a recipient of a trust upon death accept most assets but reject the timeshares?

Based on the research I did, I believe they can be refused. However that was not significant consideration for me. At least right now, my timeshares have value and should be able to be sold, or at worst given away with relative ease if needed.
 

Denise L

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If your attorney is an experienced wills and trusts/estate planning attorney, you can probably trust that. If not, I'd check with one that is. My understanding, since this is an interest in real property, is that the deed must be held in the name of the trustee in that capacity. Otherwise we'd just "list" our home and investment accounts and car, etc., and not bother with the title of those things. I believe title controls. However, I'm NOT a trust attorney.

Do remember that a living trust is a legal fiction. There is no such thing as an entity. It does not actually exist. It is simply a legal fiction for estate purposes as a non-probate way to handle your "stuff." A trust cannot sue or be sued, for instance. Only the trustee can.

Our attorney is an estate planning attorney, so we feel confident that he gave us correct information at the time. I suppose we can always retitle everything if we want to and amend the trust. We did retitle our home since its value is far greater than the timeshares. I'll do some more research.
 

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Our attorney is an estate planning attorney, so we feel confident that he gave us correct information at the time. I suppose we can always retitle everything if we want to and amend the trust. We did retitle our home since its value is far greater than the timeshares. I'll do some more research.
I helped one of those attorneys make himself a lot of money setting up a trust for me. Complicated and ongoing accounting and tax filing over the years, and then a bunch more costs to unwind it. There is no way it would have made sense for a timeshare. Many other people of my era did the same thing and almost none of those trusts were worth it at the end of the day.
 

csodjd

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Our attorney is an estate planning attorney, so we feel confident that he gave us correct information at the time. I suppose we can always retitle everything if we want to and amend the trust. We did retitle our home since its value is far greater than the timeshares. I'll do some more research.
The whole point of the trust (of A trust) is to avoid probate. No doubt this varies by state, but in California if your "estate" is worth under $150,000, you are a "small estate" and probate is not required to pass things down. A trust is used then to ensure you stay under that $150k threshold. Homes typically have equity exceeding that. So do many investment accounts (retirement accounts like IRA and 401k do not count, nor does life insurance). Timeshares contribute to the value of your estate. Cars do. Country club membership does. Etc. I put the TSs into the trust (that is, I hold them as trustee) simply because it means a mere change in name of the trustee is all that's needed to pass it on, whether to my wife, kids, etc., and I don't have to worry about valuation and the small estate threshold.
 

1Kflyerguy

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I helped one of those attorneys make himself a lot of money setting up a trust for me. Complicated and ongoing accounting and tax filing over the years, and then a bunch more costs to unwind it. There is no way it would have made sense for a timeshare. Many other people of my era did the same thing and almost none of those trusts were worth it at the end of the day.

You must have had i different type of trust. We have one trust with our primary residence, and most other financial assets including our timeshares. No special accounting or tax filings.

But everyone's situation is different, and as someone else mentioned above tax law changes over time. There is no single solution that is right for everyone.
 

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The whole point of the trust (of A trust) is to avoid probate.

I solved the probate situation in a different way. Shortly after turning 65 I distributed all my assets to my kids and ex-wife. My three small Bank Accounts are all JTWROS but don't have much in them as I currently use most of my excess disposable income for the benefit of kids and ex-wife. That was 19 years ago and I have never regretted it...

In hindsight there is another advantage to this. Because there is no pot of gold for my heirs when I die and because I use my excess disposable income for their benefit my kids and ex have a vested interest in rooting for me to live a long and prosperous life...

George
 

csodjd

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In hindsight there is another advantage to this. Because there is no pot of gold for my heirs when I die and because I use my excess disposable income for their benefit my kids and ex have a vested interest in rooting for me to live a long and prosperous life...

George
So you think that big life insurance policy I have that still has my ex-wife as a 50% beneficiary is a bad idea? :)
 

bogey21

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So you think that big life insurance policy I have that still has my ex-wife as a 50% beneficiary is a bad idea? :)

Nothing wrong with that at all. Actually I applaud it. We all have our individual circumstances and make choices as to how to best handle our affairs. No one way is right for everyone. My post was only to describe an alternative that most people probably have not considered...

George
 

csodjd

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Nothing wrong with that at all. Actually I applaud it. We all have our individual circumstances and make choices as to how to best handle our affairs. No one way is right for everyone. My post was only to describe an alternative that most people probably have not considered...

George
I was kidding, mostly. Playing off your plan giving everyone a "vested interest in rooting for me to live a long and prosperous life." My ex may not have that "vested interest," especially since her half-million dollar interest in my life insurance ends in 3 1/2 years. :)
 

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As probate costs in CA are quite high and our estate is over the 150K limit we recently had a trust prepared. However "funding" the trust has been quite and interesting path. We have several timeshare with Marriott (worked well for us) in three states (CA, HI, NV) and were planing to put them in the trust so that given that we had not sold the all, the trust could easily pay the MF if needed, dispurse to the benificiaries as they wish, or sell and give away the funds. However upon contacting Marriott the process is long, hard, and expensive based on their "process"(see attached form.) Has anyone gone through this process? Is there a way around it - it is just a simple quit claim deed to pass ownership (and the recording/legal fees) to complete the retitiling. I think this is the right thing to do but to pay 2-3K to just move our timeshare seems crazy? Am I overthinking this issue?
 

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1Kflyerguy

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As probate costs in CA are quite high and our estate is over the 150K limit we recently had a trust prepared. However "funding" the trust has been quite and interesting path. We have several timeshare with Marriott (worked well for us) in three states (CA, HI, NV) and were planing to put them in the trust so that given that we had not sold the all, the trust could easily pay the MF if needed, dispurse to the benificiaries as they wish, or sell and give away the funds. However upon contacting Marriott the process is long, hard, and expensive based on their "process"(see attached form.) Has anyone gone through this process? Is there a way around it - it is just a simple quit claim deed to pass ownership (and the recording/legal fees) to complete the retitiling. I think this is the right thing to do but to pay 2-3K to just move our timeshare seems crazy? Am I overthinking this issue?

I did move my HGVC timeshare to a trust, and yes I needed to have new deed done to move it to the trust. Since your question is really about the MVC process, I think you will get better answers on their process in the Marriott forum.
 

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I did move my HGVC timeshare to a trust, and yes I needed to have new deed done to move it to the trust. Since your question is really about the MVC process, I think you will get better answers on their process in the Marriott forum.

Did HGVC charge you to do this (such as the $2-3k by Marriott indicated in the previous post)? Thanks!
 

klkaylor

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So the total cost is not all paid to marriott - it is the cost of deed preparation, recording fees then(very location dependent), it appears to be $25/per unit. As we have 11 units to transfer the cost add up. There are several websites that help with deed preparation (both for a fee and free) but the instructions from Marriott said that they have to be completed by a lawyer so that increases the cost a lot. Not sure how they would tell. Also can't transfer to a trust if there is an outstanding loan (not an issue for us.) Appreciate the tip to look at the marriot forum but felt the issues was more general - any timeshare to a trust.
 

1Kflyerguy

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Did HGVC charge you to do this (such as the $2-3k by Marriott indicated in the previous post)? Thanks!

Its been a few years, but i think it was something like $600 or $700 to retitle my HGV unit into the trust. I used the HGVC title service thinking that would make the process easier, I am not sure that made a difference, but know it was more expensive than using an outside service. If I had to to do it over, i would a different less expensive title service.
 

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Its been a few years, but i think it was something like $600 or $700 to retitle my HGV unit into the trust. I used the HGVC title service thinking that would make the process easier, I am not sure that made a difference, but know it was more expensive than using an outside service. If I had to to do it over, i would a different less expensive title service.

Thanks! So if one had say 4 contracts (multiple HGV "units") you could theoretically pay HGV $600 x 4 = $2400?
 

1Kflyerguy

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Thanks! So if one had say 4 contracts (multiple HGV "units") you could theoretically pay HGV $600 x 4 = $2400?

Correct, but the majority of the cost was for the title company, i imagine you could use of lower cost option like LT transfers and save on the expenses. I checked my old emails, and it looks like the fee to HGV was $135 back in 2015. Not sure if they have increase that by now....
 
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Curious if anyone has successfully put their deed into a trust?

Ours is currently held as Joint Tenants, but we have almost everything else in a trust.

I found a few old threads where people we complaining of problems with HGVC deeds being held in trust.

I called Hilton and that said no problem. Knowing that people are much more likely to report problems than success, thought i would ask about success.

I can really see why it should matter,....
To begin the process of Transferring to your Trust, log into HGV.com. Go to the lines in upper right corner, go to Help, then Contact us, scroll down all the way down to Title Change Request Form, Download and complete in Type as instructed, and attached documents required for each specific option. For Transferring to Trust you must provide a copy of current Certificate of Trust dated within last 12 months, including signature and notary page… The form is pretty self explanatory. You send it back to the email provided on the first page and be sure to enter the phrase “Title Change Request” in subject line, then wait for instructions from there… This was current as of 10/2023 :)
 

1Kflyerguy

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To begin the process of Transferring to your Trust, log into HGV.com. Go to the lines in upper right corner, go to Help, then Contact us, scroll down all the way down to Title Change Request Form, Download and complete in Type as instructed, and attached documents required for each specific option. For Transferring to Trust you must provide a copy of current Certificate of Trust dated within last 12 months, including signature and notary page… The form is pretty self explanatory. You send it back to the email provided on the first page and be sure to enter the phrase “Title Change Request” in subject line, then wait for instructions from there… This was current as of 10/2023 :)

Thanks, I had asked this questions 9 years ago, and the website was a bit different back then. I have my situation all sorted out, but hopefully this will helps someone else.
 

1Kflyerguy

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Is there a fee to do this?
It was almost 8 years ago that we did this so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I don't recall a charge from HGV. You do have to actually transfer the timeshare on the deed and record that with the relevant county. You could use LT transfers or another title company for that.
 

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There is a caution to giving property to your children at age 65 instead of waiting until you pass, especially if you have owned the property a long time and it has appreciated. For example, you bought a house for $150k thirty years ago that is worth.$1.1M today. You give it to your kides.now, their cost basis when they sell is $150k. If they inherit it when you pass, their cost basis when they sell is the value when inherited, so if you were to pass next month, their cost basis is $1.1M. They will pay less tax upon sale with a $1.1M cost basis compared to $150k cost basis.
 

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There is a caution to giving property to your children at age 65 instead of waiting until you pass, especially if you have owned the property a long time and it has appreciated. For example, you bought a house for $150k thirty years ago that is worth.$1.1M today. You give it to your kides.now, their cost basis when they sell is $150k. If they inherit it when you pass, their cost basis when they sell is the value when inherited, so if you were to pass next month, their cost basis is $1.1M. They will pay less tax upon sale with a $1.1M cost basis compared to $150k cost basis.

This is true unless you have enough assets for your estate to qualify as a taxable estate. As of 2023 you have a $12.92M lifetime exemption before assets in your estate are taxed. If there is no congressional action this will be reduced to $5.49M (adjusted for inflation) on 1/1/2026. If your estate is over $5.49M but less than $12.92M then you could give your child property before 12/31/2025 and while they would not get a step-up in basis, they would not pay estate tax. If you waited until your death and it occurs after 12/31/2025 (and your estate is worth over $5.49M) then your children would have to pay a steep estate tax on any amount over the $5.49M. That assumes there will be no congressional action to extend the increased lifetime exemption. Estate tax is complicated, that is my understanding of it (but I make no claims to be an expert).

But if there one thing I have learned from being on TUG - you're probably not going to need to worry about your timeshares increasing in value and causing estate tax issues for your children! ;-)
 
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