Lake Tahoe?

[dayooper]

Take this for what it’s worth, but one of the HGVC Facebook groups had a member report back from a sales presentation that a new resort in Lake Tahoe was in the works. Again, could be just a salesman saying what the victim . . . Errrrr, owner wanted to hear (don’t know what the conversation was that led up to that point), but that would be an interesting turn of events if that happened!

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Take this for what it’s worth, but one of the HGVC Facebook groups had a member report back from a sales presentation that a new resort in Lake Tahoe was in the works. Again, could be just a salesman saying what the victim . . . Errrrr, owner wanted to hear (don’t know what the conversation was that led up to that point), but that would be an interesting turn of events if that happened!

That would be a great addition. We just spent some time at the MVC Timber Lodge and really enjoyed ourselves.

Of course tt always hard to know how you hear at a presentation is accurate, but i do recall that HGV did mention Northern California as area of interest on one of their investor calls. That was 12 to 18 months ago, so maybe there is some basis to the rumor.

I like the idea, but remain skeptical until its actually announced.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I am skeptical because there are no Hilton hotels in the Tahoe area to convert. Renovation, new build and insurance rates are sky-high in the Tahoe area because of the Camp fire. Lips moving.

 

[dayooper]

I am skeptical as well, but I thought I would bring that up here as it hasn’t been mentioned before.

 

[GT75]

from a sales presentation that a new resort in Lake Tahoe was in the works.

I am skeptical also but certainly would like one near the ski slopes for some more options.

 

[JohnPaul]

Not the first go around for this rumor.

 

[dougp26364]

The only way I could see it would be if they purchased an existing timeshare and converted it to HGVC standards. Something along the lines of what happened with Elara in Vegas. The problem with that theory is, I can’t think of an existing timeshare in Lake Tahoe that’s not young enough go to have ample inventory they could sell. All of the resorts I’m aware of are “mature”. Then again I’m more familiar with II resorts in that area and not RCI’s offerings.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

The only way I could see it would be if they purchased an existing timeshare and converted it to HGVC standards. Something along the lines of what happened with Elara in Vegas. The problem with that theory is, I can’t think of an existing timeshare in Lake Tahoe that’s not young enough go to have ample inventory they could sell. All of the resorts I’m aware of are “mature”. Then again I’m more familiar with II resorts in that area and not RCI’s offerings.

We just stayed at Marriott's Timber Lodge in South Lake Tahoe. I did notice a constructions site that looked abandoned across the street. The shuttle driver staid it was a condo resort that started construction just before the last recession then developer went bankrupt. Not sure if that is a big enough lot for HGVC, but it would be nice an close to Heavenly.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@dougp26364 You bring up a good point. If they affiliate and buy a few floors or a building or take over management then that would be possible.

I see three possibilities for an affilliate scenario:

1) A south shore casino hotel where the casino wants a steady stream of MF and sell their units for a multiple of what it is worth given gambling revenue is declining. (high probability if they can make the financials work)

2) Buying floors or a building(s) at the Ridge Resort and renovating to HGVC std. (med probability). Perhaps Ridge HOA is encountering defaults as skiers age out and wants another company to share the risk? I agree that other timeshares in the area are too old or too small to convert.

3) (wildcard - longshot - low probability) Affiliate with the lodge at the newly constructed Homewood Ski resort by either taking over some units to sell as timeshares or managing the resort on behalf of the developer. Construction is expected to begin next year on turning the base of Homewood Ski area on Tahoe's West Shore into a destination resort with a lodge and condos on a smaller scale but similar concept to Squaw Valley ski in/out. The resort is unique because Homewood is the only ski resort in Tahoe that is right on the lake and also offers a boating facility, boat ramp and lakeside restaurant. They expect a 10 year build-out of the resort.

The development has experienced fits and starts and we have heard that the developers have been having issues with securing investment. HGVC may have been approached for investment and this may be the source of the rumors.

The resort has been in planning approvals for past 9 years. There are many reg hurdles as local activists want to keep the west shore quiet and sleepy as it is today. Although many of the condos will be sold as million $ plus condos there could be parts of the lodge and some condos that could be timeshares. HGVC could manage the entire resort including rentals on the lodge and condos for owners.

Here is a rendering of what the resort would look like:

https://www.skihomewood.com/masterplan/renderings/

With SF and Silicon Valley, there would be plenty of demand for the condos, however they may need financing to get this resort off the ground and HGVC/Blackrock could be a good source.

 

[Vatt1]

I live in the Bay Area, so I would be thrilled if they opened a Tahoe resort since there aren't many HGVC places within driving distance. CalGal Traveler, the Homewood resort would be awesome, though I agree it's likely a low probability. I hope they can figure something out

 

[holdaer]

I wonder if Lake Tahoe rumor will play out like Sunrise Lodge in Park City, UT.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I wonder if Lake Tahoe rumor will play out like Sunrise Lodge in Park City, UT.

Could you elaborate on the history of this?

 

[holdaer]

Sunrise Lodge started out as a high end condo development. I guess it didn't sell as planned so HGVC came in and created an affiliation with the developer. I can see something similar with Homewood Ski Resort if it's been in the planning stage for over 10years and they are having issues with raising capital to get the project completed.

I can see an opportunity for HGVC to come in with their capital-light strategy.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Thanks @holdaer. I do see how it would fit with a capital-light strategy. I also see a few key differences which create headwinds for such a project.

1) Sunrise was already built and not selling. Homewood hasn't put a shovel in the ground yet so requires a lot more capital.
2) Development will be slow due to having a short building season similar to Park City. There is a scarcity of skilled laborers in the Lake Tahoe area. Ice crackdowns have exacerbated this scarcity as many undocumented workers have gone underground to work small projects and will not risk deportation by working for a large employer, or have left the country. The developer would have to bus in or house workers from Reno and beyond.
3) They will have no issue selling wholly owned condos with the go-go Bay Area economy. Of course if there is a recession...
4) Insurance rates are sky high in wooded areas because of the Camp Fire which may destroy project economics. I have even heard of homeowners in Los Gatos and Saratoga in the Silicon Valley getting non-renewals or their insurance doubling and tripling.

With that said, HGVC and Blackrock have been known to invest in large high-rise projects such as NYC and Grand Islander which are in highly regulated cities so they have a deep war chest to take on such a project and ride out such headwinds.

 

[dayooper]

Thanks @holdaer. I do see how it would fit with a capital-light strategy. I also see a few key differences.

1) Sunrise was already built and not selling. Homewood hasn't put a shovel in the ground yet so requires a lot more capital.
2) They will have no issues selling wholly owned condos with the go-go Bay Area economy. Of course if there is a recession...
3) Insurance rates are sky high in wooded areas because of the Camp Fire which may destroy project economics. I have even heard of people in Los Gatos and Saratoga in the Silicon Valley getting non-renewals from their insurance agencies, or their insurance doubling and tripling.

With that said, HGVC and Blackrock have been known to invest in projects such as NYC and Grand Islander so they have a deep war chest.

The artists rendering of the Homewood Ski Lodge looks right up HGVC’s alley. I think that Lake Tahoe would be such a long shot, but it’s still fun predicting what would happen. Still waiting for a Midwest/NE non urban resort. Traverse City anybody?

 

[DeniseM]

The abandoned condo foundation on the main drag in South Shore Lake Tahoe has a lot of issues. Reports are that the original contractor cut corners and the existing cement foundation is not up to code and would have to be removed and repoured.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

The abandoned condo foundation on the main drag in South Shore Lake Tahoe has a lot of issues. Reports are that the original contractor cut corners and the existing cement foundation is not up to code and would have to be removed and repoured.

I had not heard about the possibility of poor workmanship, but certainly the foundation and rebar have been out in the weather, freezing and thawing for many years so removing and starting over makes sense.

I am not sure what the original plans were for that site, and I am sure the original approvals have expired. But presumably it would be easier to gain approval for a replacement project than building in a brand new location.

 

[SmithOp]

I am skeptical because there are no Hilton hotels in the Tahoe area to convert. Renovation, new build and insurance rates are sky-high in the Tahoe area because of the Camp fire. Lips moving.

What about the Embassy Suites on the south shore? Nevermind, I guess they sold it since I was last at Tahoe...

Given all the issues noted with this other failed development, converting a suites hotel like Embassy would be much easier and less costly.


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[CalGalTraveler]

What about the Embassy Suites on the south shore? Nevermind, I guess they sold it since I was last at Tahoe...

Given all the issues noted with this other failed development, converting a suites hotel like Embassy would be much easier and less costly.


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That's a perfect idea! I wasn't aware one existed in south shore. Conversion would be easy because the rooms are already 1 bdrm suites (although no kitchen). The building already exists is ski in/out at Heavenly and south shore is much more developer friendly than the west shore so a conversion would be much simpler. (However I am still holding out hope for Homewood which would be an extraordinary high-end lakefront, ski in/out resort destination like Northstar vs. crowds in south shore even though odds are very low.)

 

[PamMo]

I'd love to see a new HGVC resort in Northstar!

 

[dougp26364]

That's a perfect idea! I wasn't aware one existed in south shore. Conversion would be easy because the rooms are already 1 bdrm suites (although no kitchen). The building already exists is ski in/out at Heavenly and south shore is much more developer friendly than the west shore so a conversion would be much simpler. (However I am still holding out hope for Homewood which would be an extraordinary high-end lakefront, ski in/out resort destination akin to Northstar vs. crowds in south shore even though odds are very low.)

If you think that’s a good idea, you’ll love this. Embassy once had timeshare developments that included Lake Tahoe AND Maui. They sold the Embassy timeshare brand years ago to Sunterra, now known as DRI. I’ve often wondered if the brain trust with Hilton regrets that decision.

The development in Tahoe is on the south shore right on the lake and on Maui it’s the Kanapali Beach Club.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

If you think that’s a good idea, you’ll love this. Embassy once had timeshare developments that included Lake Tahoe AND Maui. They sold the Embassy timeshare brand years ago to Sunterra, now known as DRI. I’ve often wondered if the brain trust with Hilton regrets that decision.

The development in Tahoe is on the south shore right on the lake and on Maui it’s the Kanapali Beach Club.

That's really interesting. The Embassy on Maui is in a terrific location but IMO after walking by the DRI resort this summer the resort looked old and didn't seem up to the HGVC standard. However I didn't go in any rooms, so perhaps they are nice.

Is the original Embassy Suite/Sunterra Tahoe timeshare the same Embassy Suites now? The current Embassy Suites hotel is not on the lake and BTW appears to have recently disassociated with Hilton Hotels. But looks nice!

https://www.tahoeresorthotel.com/

 

[dougp26364]

That's really interesting. The Embassy on Maui is in a terrific location but IMO after walking by the DRI resort this summer the resort looked old and didn't seem up to the HGVC standard. However I didn't go in any rooms, so perhaps they are nice.

Is the original Embassy Suite/Sunterra Tahoe timeshare the same Embassy Suites now? The current Embassy Suites hotel is not on the lake and BTW appears to have recently disassociated with Hilton Hotels. But looks nice!

https://www.tahoeresorthotel.com/

The timeshare on South Lake Tahoe is now a DRI Resort. I forget exactly what it’s called.
Here’s a photo album of KBC Resort on Maui from our stay in 2015. It’s a nice resort. The rooms however were probably not up to HGVC standards at the time but, HGVC is now finding out how difficult it is to get back into both Maui and S. Lake Tahoe if that’s what they’re wanting.

https://dougp26364.smugmug.com/Travel/TImeshare/DRI-Kaanapali-Beach-Club-March/


Yes they have a location in Maui but, it’s not beach front or even what I’d consider a prime location.

 

[dougp26364]

This is a link to the old Embassy South Lake Tahoe Resort that’s now a DRI Resort. It’s in the II directory. https://www.intervalworld.com/web/c...ortCode=EVR&parentResortCode=EVR#.XVl2kRpOmhA

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Looks like a nice property.