What should I buy? : 15000 HGVC or 2x7000 HGVC?

[sophyly]

Hi Tuggers,

1) Is there a vacation destination you wish to visit most of the time or on a regular basis? if so where? New York and Scotland

2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time? Trade more

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations? Disney location cities- Orlando, California, Hawai, Paris and Las Vegas

4) How many people do you usually travel with - total, including yourself? 2 adults and 2 young kids

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule? In a few years we are going to be locked into school schedule

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance? Yes

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time? Yes

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars? 4 and 5 stars

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing? $15000

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year? $3000

11) Are you a detail oriented planner? Yes

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do? Yes

We are Asian based in middle east. We normally spend 3-4 weeks/year (break into 2-3 vacations), mostly during spring break, summer and Christmas holiday. We wish to explore US, European and Mexico cities.

In your opinions, which one is better option for our family:

Option 1
1 unit of HGVC - Platinum 15000 points, with MF $2700/year
Total: $15000

Option 2
2 units of HGVC- Platinum 7000 points, $7000 with MF $1600/year
Total : $15000

Option 3
HGVC- Platinum 7000 points, $7000 with MF $1600/year and MVC Asia-Pacific 3000 points, $8000 with MF $1150/year
Total: $15000

Option 4
Don't buy timeshare, just rent

** Will this resale points eligible to get Elite status?

Thanks.

 

[brp]

** Will this resale points eligible to get Elite status?

Thanks.

No, it will not. And really a small loss for the payout savings.

Cheers.

 

[dayooper]

Where are the resorts you are looking to buy? Those MF’s seem kinda high. I think you can get a better MF ratio than those you listed.

 

[sophyly]

Where are the resorts you are looking to buy? Those MF’s seem kinda high. I think you can get a better MF ratio than those you listed.

The MF is based on the King’s Land.Am not sure if I am right but i believe that this property is in high demand and it might has a better rent-out and resale demand? Rather than Orlando/Vegas property which has better MF ratio but oversupply in the market?

I don’t plan to stay much with it, mostly to trade for HGVC points or RCI.

 

[pianodinosaur]

The MFs at a ski resort will be much higher than Las Vegas. However, if you are an avid skier who wants to travel during peak ski season, the increased MFs might be worth it. The same also applies to Hawaii. If you plan to visit Hawaii frequently during peak season, the increased MFs might be worth it.

 

[RX8]

Since NY is your goal you are going to have to buy points based in NY. Points elsewhere are restricted to last minute reservations meaning no guarantees.

 

[dayooper]

The MF is based on the King’s Land.Am not sure if I am right but i believe that this property is in high demand and it might has a better rent-out and resale demand? Rather than Orlando/Vegas property which has better MF ratio but oversupply in the market?

I don’t plan to stay much with it, mostly to trade for HGVC points or RCI.

Is the MF for option 2 the total or is that $1600 each?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Since you want Scotland and NY you should also look at 7000+ pts Craigendarach (sp?) and possibly a W57 5250 pts resale but that will be higher than your 15k budget because the W57 alone will be $15k.

Two 7k Craigendardach will fit your budget. I believe the resort has a rental program and works well if you own popular UK summer weeks. For NYC you can only reserve NYC 60 days out and the 1 bdrm priority reservations to fit your family are usually gone before 60 days so you would need to own NYC to get 1 bdrm unless you want to burn a lot of pts on a higher pt 1 bdrm premier or 2 studios.

@GT75, our fearless moderator, and @ski_sierra own points in Scotland and trade frequently so could tell you more. You can also search this forum for "Scotland" threads for details.

 

[sophyly]

Is the MF for option 2 the total or is that $1600 each?

Each MF is at $1600 each.

The MFs at a ski resort will be much higher than Las Vegas. However, if you are an avid skier who wants to travel during peak ski season, the increased MFs might be worth it. The same also applies to Hawaii. If you plan to visit Hawaii frequently during peak season, the increased MFs might be worth it.

Not for Ski or frequent visit to Hawaii. Will use it mostly for points trading. I am hoping to purchase at resort that may have a potential rental and resale demand. But am not sure if my understanding is right.

 

[brp]

Not for Ski or frequent visit to Hawaii. Will use it mostly for points trading. I am hoping to purchase at resort that may have a potential rental and resale demand. But am not sure if my understanding is right.

I don't believe it is correct understanding. First, a Platinum week (or even Gold) in Vegas will have resale value. Maybe not as high as Kingsland, but buy-in will likely be lower, and the lower MFs will more than make up for any resale difference in short order.

Also, per rule, rental is only allowed for your Home Week. Although one can get rentals for "friends" during Club Season

I think lower MF ratio better fits your use model.

Cheers.

 

[dayooper]

Each MF is at $1600 each.

If you go by the MF per point, option one (a ratio of $.18 per point) is a much better than option 2 ($.22 per point). Option 2 has double the transfer and activation fees as well.

While I’m not sure on renting home weeks at Kingsland, I think your best bet, like @brp says above, is a lower MF point, like Vegas or Scotland. The entry cost will be less and the MF’s will be much lower.

@CalGalTraveler mentions above, Craigendarroch in Scotland might work for you as well. Depending on the exchange rate, the MF’s are generally lower there and the transfer fees are substantially less. They were less than $800 US dollars this year totaling $1600 (as much as one of the 2 bedroom units in Kingsland). The ratio for this would be $.11 a point, one of the best in the system. As of earlier this week, there was two consecutive platinum weeks available there (you buy a week and release it into the system).

Oh, and welcome to Tug!

 

[DazedandConfused]

this topic comes up often.....there is no 100% correct choice. But generally the lower the annual dues, the higher the purchase price and visa versa.

Here are a few popular best deals
Las Vegas Blvd (look for Platinum weeks and the Plus rooms)
Kings Land (look for Platinum weeks and the Plus and Premium rooms)
Elara (platinum and premium weeks - be careful not to by a westgate conversion)
Orlando (generally seaworld)

Do not buy cheap gold weeks unless it is a mega bargain

Kings Land 14,400 platinum contracts are amazing if you can find one

 

[GT75]

** Will this resale points eligible to get Elite status?

If you purchase resale via local HGVC sales such as some have done at one of the HGVC affiliates (such as Scotland or Florida Gulf properties) then those points will count towards Elite levels.

 

[GT75]

In your opinions, which one is better option for our family:

If you are purchasing HGVC for just for points, then I would recommend that you try to have your buy-in (purchase) price ~$1/point and your MFs around ~$0.1/point.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

this topic comes up often.....there is no 100% correct choice. But generally the lower the annual dues, the higher the purchase price and visa versa.

Here are a few popular best deals
Las Vegas Blvd (look for Platinum weeks and the Plus rooms)
Kings Land (look for Platinum weeks and the Plus and Premium rooms)
Elara (platinum and premium weeks - be careful not to by a westgate conversion)
Orlando (generally seaworld)

Do not buy cheap gold weeks unless it is a mega bargain

Kings Land 14,400 platinum contracts are amazing if you can find one

If you go Vegas route for lowest MF/pt also look at the Las Vegas Paradise and Flamingo plat 2 bdrms because BLVD and Elara 7k point resales have been in the $9 - 11k premium range lately.

Paradise has similarly low MF, but is frequently overlooked (such as in the post above). It doesn't have a premium like Blvd so is closer to $1 a point with $7 - 8k resale price on Redweek (and sometimes lower on Ebay e.g. there is one listed by a reputable seller at $6,750). With less popularity you can negotiate harder and probably negotiate for the seller to pick up the fees. (we got not only a free year of points but also got the seller to pay the fees and we negotiated slightly less than $1 a point.) As a result, Paradise netted out much lower than Blvd and Elara because those sellers know they have a popular property so were not willing to budge on fees and free points.

Flamingo can also be the lowest because there is no ROFR. Sometimes you can get lucky like @dayooper and negotiate a lower price but it tends to be in the $1/pt range for plat 2 bdrm without the Blvd or Elara premiums.

However, given your travel desires, Scotland and NYC would be your best bets.

 

[presley]

Option 2
2 units of HGVC- Platinum 7000 points, $7000 with MF $1600/year
Total : $15000

Option 4
Don't buy timeshare, just rent

Of the options given, I'd do either of those. It's always a good idea to rent before you buy so that you get an idea if you like timeshares enough to own one.

Will this resale points eligible to get Elite status?

It doesn't give you Elite status, but the Elite benefits are really in the Hhonors program (the hotel program). You can get the Hilton American Express credit card and get Elite status that way. There are 2 versions of the cards. The one for $400./year gives you Diamond status (the highest level) and if you use all the benefits of the card, you pretty much get the annual fee back each year.

 

[sophyly]

Thank you very much for the all the informations above. It is a lot to digest but I really appreciate and valued everyone opinions. I believe that I understand better and I am now re-strategizing my options.

@CalGalTraveler I really love your brilliant suggestion on Scotland + NY, it is something I wish for but it will definitely blows the $15000 budget. I will keep W57 for future and keep an eye open for the 7200 unicorn.

Option Scotland
I am now checking 2x Scotland, 6200 points. But I was surprised to see $880 closing fee on each deed and fees ++. (maybe due to international transfer)
There are 7000 and 8400 units that available in HGVC local resale. If i get them both it would exceed the budget and points that I required.

If the total price is above 15%-17%,should i push my budget to get the Elite status?

Option Vegas

I see that Vegas is the easiest route,(I cant find the $6750 that @CalGalTraveler mentioned, will keep looking for less $1 with lowest MF)

But I found the follow - HGVC LV Boulevard 14,000 points, MF $1751, price is slightly above $1.It is a 2 weeks in one deed.

Will be hard in the future if I want to separate the 2 weeks into single week each for resale/giveaway purpose?

@dayooper with this option, I will save one closing fee but still required 2x activation fee. It is better option than buying 2 separate deeds?

Option mix Scotland+ Vegas
I think to own a mix locations would be interesting too.

Cheers

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Thank you very much for the all the informations above. It is a lot to digest but I really appreciate and valued everyone opinions. I believe that I understand better and I am now re-strategizing my options.

@CalGalTraveler I really love your brilliant suggestion on Scotland + NY, it is something I wish for but it will definitely blows the $15000 budget. I will keep W57 for future and keep an eye open for the 7200 unicorn.

Option Scotland
I am now checking 2x Scotland, 6200 points. But I was surprised to see $880 closing fee on each deed and fees ++. (maybe due to international transfer)
There are 7000 and 8200 units that available in HGVC local resale. If i get them both it would exceed the budget and points that I required.

If the total price is above 15%-17%,should i push my budget to get the Elite status?

Option Vegas

I see that Vegas is the easiest route,(I cant find the $6750 that @CalGalTraveler mentioned, will keep looking for less $1 with lowest MF)

But I found the follow - HGVC LV Boulevard 14,000 points, MF $1751, price is slightly above $1.It is a 2 weeks in one deed.

Will be hard in the future if I want to separate the 2 weeks into single week each for resale/giveaway purpose?

@dayooper with this option, I will save one closing fee but still required 2x activation fee. It is better option than buying 2 separate deeds?

Option mix Scotland+ Vegas
I think to own a mix locations would be interesting too.

Cheers

Glad it helped. W57 7200s are rare and will have a premium that may negate the additional points savings. The 5250 pt units will give you enough points with banking, borrowing etc. at a lower purchase price. Run the numbers to compare.

For Scotland, I would consider paying a premium to get Elite but if you can afford you might do better spending the extra money on a W57 which gives you the elite benefit of free reservations if you purchase the "All inclusive" option for $120/year plus you get priority booking window in NYC. If you make 2 reservations or more per year you will rapidly recoup the AI cost. I find it valuable because we can do speculative bookings and cancellations so don't have to worry. One year we saved almost $1000 in booking fees. Review the elite benefits at 14k and compare to the free new reservation with AI benefit (which comes as part of the 34k Elite benefit but you don't get the rest of the 34k benefits such as free banking fees).

IMO I would avoid a dual deed because I prefer flexibility as you may want to sell one in the future and replace with something else. For example, if you add NYC at a later date you may find yourself paying for too many points you cannot use. It would be costly to split because you would have to hire a real estate attorney and HGVC may charge you fees. Never seen it done.

I will PM you the listing I saw.

Please report back on what you ultimately decide.

 

[GT75]

But I was surprised to see $880 closing fee on each deed and fees ++. (maybe due to international transfer)

That doesn't sound correct. Actually, Scotland had lower fees than US properties. I can give you a contact if you wish (PM me). Btw, I do own in Scotland.

 

[dayooper]

Thank you very much for the all the informations above. It is a lot to digest but I really appreciate and valued everyone opinions. I believe that I understand better and I am now re-strategizing my options.

@CalGalTraveler I really love your brilliant suggestion on Scotland + NY, it is something I wish for but it will definitely blows the $15000 budget. I will keep W57 for future and keep an eye open for the 7200 unicorn.

Option Scotland
I am now checking 2x Scotland, 6200 points. But I was surprised to see $880 closing fee on each deed and fees ++. (maybe due to international transfer)
There are 7000 and 8400 units that available in HGVC local resale. If i get them both it would exceed the budget and points that I required.

If the total price is above 15%-17%,should i push my budget to get the Elite status?

Option Vegas

I see that Vegas is the easiest route,(I cant find the $6750 that @CalGalTraveler mentioned, will keep looking for less $1 with lowest MF)

But I found the follow - HGVC LV Boulevard 14,000 points, MF $1751, price is slightly above $1.It is a 2 weeks in one deed.

Will be hard in the future if I want to separate the 2 weeks into single week each for resale/giveaway purpose?

@dayooper with this option, I will save one closing fee but still required 2x activation fee. It is better option than buying 2 separate deeds?

Option mix Scotland+ Vegas
I think to own a mix locations would be interesting too.

Cheers

In my contact with Craigendarroch earlier in the year, I was quoted £195 transfer fee, £290 activation fee and £178 for the first years club dues (I was already a member so I wouldn’t have to pay that). Now your dues may be more as you aren’t from the US. It’s more to transfer a deeded unit as you have a deed that needs to be prepared and registered. When I bought my Flamingo last year, I payed $700 in deed prep, recording, title insurance and various fees to go along with $399 HGVC transfer and $599 activation fees plus my $170 club dues. What the HGVC rep quoted me was out the door. All of those fees have increased for this year.

As far as the 2 Vegas deeds go, I’m not sure how all of that works.

 

[hgvcowner88]

Glad it helped. W57 7200s are rare and will have a premium that may negate the additional points savings. The 5250 pt units will give you enough points with banking, borrowing etc. at a lower purchase price. Run the numbers to compare.

For Scotland, I would consider paying a premium to get Elite but if you can afford you might do better spending the extra money on a W57 which gives you the elite benefit of free reservations if you purchase the "All inclusive" option for $120/year plus you get priority booking window in NYC. If you make 2 reservations or more per year you will rapidly recoup the AI cost. I find it valuable because we can do speculative bookings and cancellations so don't have to worry. One year we saved almost $1000 in booking fees. Review the elite benefits at 14k and compare to the free new reservation with AI benefit (which comes as part of the 34k Elite benefit but you don't get the rest of the 34k benefits such as free banking fees).

IMO I would avoid a dual deed because I prefer flexibility as you may want to sell one in the future and replace with something else. For example, if you add NYC at a later date you may find yourself paying for too many points you cannot use. It would be costly to split because you would have to hire a real estate attorney and HGVC may charge you fees. Never seen it done.

I will PM you the listing I saw.

Please report back on what you ultimately decide.

What is this all-inclusive reservation benefit? Is there somewhere we can pay for this if we're not elite? I haven't seen it anywhere but can't see it on the elite benefits listing either. I had heard some rumblings of that through an email I got though.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

What is this all-inclusive reservation benefit? Is there somewhere we can pay for this if we're not elite? I haven't seen it anywhere but can't see it on the elite benefits listing either. I had heard some rumblings of that through an email I got though.

It's only available to NYC bHC owners. For approx.$120/year you can get free reservations. Pays off if you make more than 2 reservations a year or like to speculatively book and later cancel if your plans don't work out.