[2019] MVC Owner Update for Sheraton Owner

[LeslieDet]

It seemed you were saying that you didn’t believe that Vistana weeks would be able to be enrolled in the DC exchange and that only FlexOptions from the Vistana trust products would be allowed to exchange for DPs. So my feeling was if that happened they should exclude MVC weeks as well and just allow Trust points. Why let one side’s weeks play and not the other?

You did not follow what I was saying regarding the differences. Just like in the DP system, there are owned weeks that are not enrolled into the DP system and with those, owners have zero opportunity to elect DPs from those weeks. So that ownership would not generate any "currency" (i.e., DPs) that could be used to exchange into FlexOptions. On the Vistana side, there is the same things - it is uniform. Only the old StarOptions that were enrolled into the FlexOptions program would be able to be used to generate a currency (a FlexOption) that could then be used to exchange it into DPs. So, the treatment from each side would be uniform. Enrolled vs unenrolled weeks. Only enrolled weeks (or whatever Vistana would choose as it's term to mean the same thing as it does on the MVCI side) could partiipate and be elected to receive the appropriate currency that would then be exchanged for purposes of cross brand booking.

 

[LeslieDet]

Consider:

Pre Eligibility for Marriott's Destination Club:

- Marriott sold Weeks with home usage preference differentiated by resort/unit size/view type/seasonal calendars. Starwood-now-Vistana, the same.

- Eligible Marriott Weeks could be exchanged for Marriott-Rewards-now-Bonvoy Points. Eligible Vistana Weeks can be exchanged for SPG-StarPoints-now-Bonvoy Points.

- Marriott Weeks could be exchanged externally via II by virtue of an affiliation agreement between the two companies. Vistana Weeks, the same.

- Eligible Marriott Weeks in the Florida Club could be exchanged internally among the limited resorts participating in that program. Eligible Vistana Weeks in the Sheraton Flex club can be exchanged internally among the limited resorts participating in that program.

- Vistana has an internal exchange program with StarOptions as the currency with eligibility based on whether the purchase was direct or an external resale as well as whether "Mandatory" or "Voluntary" participation is dictated in the governing docs. Marriott did not offer a system-wide internal exchange program.

Post Marriott's Destination Club:

Owners of Marriott Weeks can choose to enroll their existing Weeks into the DC subject to eligibility rules, one-time Enrollment Fees and ongoing annual Club Dues fees. Enrollment does not mean a permanent exchange of Weeks for DC Points and it does not remove/erase any of the other usage options. Enrolled Weeks can be used exactly the same as previous and in addition can be elected on an annual basis for DC Exchange Points, the value based on the specific resort/unit size/view type/season designations of each interval. DC Points can be used in the DC Exchange Company for internal exchanges to any other inventory that's allowed by Marriott Vacations Worldwide to play in the DC sandbox, and for whatever other options are offered in the Destination Club, subject to availability and eligibility rules.

I'm just not seeing why Marriott can't offer DC eligibility to any non-Marriott branded timeshares, especially the ones that now come under the Marriott Vacations Worldwide umbrella, similar to how it is offered to owners of Marriott Weeks. "Keep everything you have and here, we'll give you something more. Wouldn't you like to expand your internal exchange options to everything else that comes under our umbrella?!"

Sure, it's unwieldy, it comes with a cost and for MVW it's a logistical nightmare that must take into consideration the ownership/usage that's legally granted in the original deeds. But they've managed to do it with Marriott Weeks such that thousands of people are happily seeing the value of using the DC to enhance their ownerships, and the DC Exchange Company appeared from the start to have been deliberately set up in a manner that would facilitate exchanges among non-Marriott-branded timeshares almost as easily. So, what are the legal barriers that I'm just not seeing that might prohibit allowing Vistana/Hyatt to play in the DC sandbox?

I'll say again, I'm not talking about a total integration of Marriott, Vistana and/or Hyatt companies that will end up with one product sold under one brand across the spectrum resulting in massive changes to what's already been sold and what will be sold in the future. I couldn't even begin to try to figure out something on that scale, which I doubt could legally happen anyway! No, all I'm talking about is opening up participation in the Destination Club to every existing ownership that now comes under the MVW umbrella, based on eligibility rules and subject to fees, on a basis similar to how it's been made available to existing Marriott Weeks owners. As simply as possible, it'd be an invitation to participate in an MVW-only internal exchange company, or, gain access to whatever other options are available to DC Members. Why not?

I think the quick answer is that you are expecting there to be sharing among sister corporations. Just because these separate stand alone corporations are under the MVW umbrella does not mean that they have to share.

 

[JIMinNC]

You did not follow what I was saying regarding the differences. Just like in the DP system, there are owned weeks that are not enrolled into the DP system and with those, owners have zero opportunity to elect DPs from those weeks. So that ownership would not generate any "currency" (i.e., DPs) that could be used to exchange into FlexOptions. On the Vistana side, there is the same things - it is uniform. Only the old StarOptions that were enrolled into the FlexOptions program would be able to be used to generate a currency (a FlexOption) that could then be used to exchange it into DPs. So, the treatment from each side would be uniform. Enrolled vs unenrolled weeks. Only enrolled weeks (or whatever Vistana would choose as it's term to mean the same thing as it does on the MVCI side) could partiipate and be elected to receive the appropriate currency that would then be exchanged for purposes of cross brand booking.

My understanding of Vistana from many posts by VSE owners is that when an owner exchanges a Vistana week for FlexOptions, they are essentially permanently giving up their week/deed and its StarOptions in exchange for a new ownership in one of the FlexOptions trusts (WestinFlex, SheratonFlex, Aventuras), so they essentially no longer own a week. They have permanently relinquished their week and now own the equivalent of DC Trust Points, just in a smaller trust. Only a small percentage of VSE owners have taken this option, so very little inventory of former owned weeks is in the Flex trusts right now.

In Marriott, enrolled owners still own their week and deed, and just have the option in any given year to convert their week to DPs and search for points bookings in the DC Exchange. They are using their week's point value in the DC Exchange, not converting their week to Trust Points. It's an option just like depositing to II or booking your home week. That's a very different situation, and many MVC owners have enrolled their weeks. MVC enrolled owners are not giving their week back to MVC and do not own Trust Points (the MVC equivalent of FlexOptions).

It has been reported over and over that Vistana sales reps are telling prospects that "the only way to access the Marriott inventory will be to buy FlexOptions." Since that is what they are selling, it makes sense they would try to convince prospects that is what the cross-exchange will look like. Marriott reps have long used the same general approach to try to sell Trust points, saying new benefits, etc. will only be available to Trust owners. So far, that has not been the case, despite MVC sales insisting it was going to happen. To me it just sounds like VSE is using the same playbook spin - "Tell Prospects You Must Buy Flex to get the New Shiny Thing".

 

[LeslieDet]

My understanding of Vistana from many posts by VSE owners is that when an owner exchanges a Vistana week for FlexOptions, they are essentially permanently giving up their week/deed and its StarOptions in exchange for a new ownership in one of the FlexOptions trusts (WestinFlex, SheratonFlex, Aventuras), so they essentially no longer own a week. They have permanently relinquished their week and now own the equivalent of DC Trust Points, just in a smaller trust. Only a small percentage of VSE owners have taken this option, so very little inventory of former owned weeks is in the Flex trusts right now.

In Marriott, enrolled owners still own their week and deed, and just have the option in any given year to convert their week to DPs and search for points bookings in the DC Exchange. They are using their week's point value in the DC Exchange, not converting their week to Trust Points. It's an option just like depositing to II or booking your home week. That's a very different situation, and many MVC owners have enrolled their weeks. MVC enrolled owners are not giving their week back to MVC and do not own Trust Points (the MVC equivalent of FlexOptions).

It has been reported over and over that Vistana sales reps are telling prospects that "the only way to access the Marriott inventory will be to buy FlexOptions." Since that is what they are selling, it makes sense they would try to convince prospects that is what the cross-exchange will look like. Marriott reps have long used the same general approach to try to sell Trust points, saying new benefits, etc. will only be available to Trust owners. So far, that has not been the case, despite MVC sales insisting it was going to happen. To me it just sounds like VSE is using the same playbook spin - "Tell Prospects You Must Buy Flex to get XXX New Thing".

I do not know all of the different structures that are being offered by Vistana regarding the ownership; I only know that I could have purchased FlexOptions directly, I could have used my existing Vistana deeded ownership to "pay" for buying FlexOptions (and have received 100% of my purchase price applied) and yes, I would have given up ownership in Hawaii and received points ownership in FL land trust. Because I was not interested, I did not bother to go into detail on costs etc., but I could have also have kept my existing ownership and bought new FlexOptions. I did not drill down into the specifics of how that would work, and I summarily dismissed it. Now, in hindsight, I wish I'd have asked lots of questions about how to keep what I own in Vistana and also join the FlexOptions program by just buying points. Oh well, some other time....

 

[JIMinNC]

I do not know all of the different structures that are being offered by Vistana regarding the ownership; I only know that I could have purchased FlexOptions directly, I could have used my existing Vistana deeded ownership to "pay" for buying FlexOptions (and have received 100% of my purchase price applied) and yes, I would have given up ownership in Hawaii and received points ownership in FL land trust. Because I was not interested, I did not bother to go into detail on costs etc., but I could have also have kept my existing ownership and bought new FlexOptions. I did not drill down into the specifics of how that would work, and I summarily dismissed it. Now, in hindsight, I wish I'd have asked lots of questions about how to keep what I own in Vistana and also join the FlexOptions program by just buying points. Oh well, some other time....

Yes, exactly. In Vistana, FlexOptions are essentially the same as Trust Points in MVC - they just have three separate trusts instead of one. You can keep your deeded week with StarOptions and, if you choose, add to that by buying a batch of FlexOptions separately. This would be essentially the same scenario as an enrolled weeks owner in MVC buying a separate batch of Trust Points to add to the enrolled points they get from their week. Someone who only owned FlexOptions would be just like a Trust-only owner in MVC.

Vistana also allows their weeks owners to essentially trade-in their Vistana week to help pay for FlexOptions, but in this scenario, they come out of it with just FlexOptions, no more week. So after the trade-in they would be just like a Trust-only owner in MVC. All they would own are FlexOptions in one of the Flex trusts. So far, MVC has not tried this approach (trade-in) as a way to get MVC weeks owners to buy Trust points. It would not surprise me, however, if they tried it in the future as a different way to reacquire inventory and sell more expensive points.

All of the above was why I concluded that if your original theory was correct, and only FlexOptions would be able to access the cross-program exchange to book at MVC (meaning that only the Vistana Flex Trust points could play in the MVC sandbox), it would be consistent that they would also limit the cross-program sandbox to just MVC DC Trust Points. Conversely, if they decide to let MVC enrolled points play, it would make sense that they would come up with a point election schedule for every VSE resort, and allow those VSE owners who have StarOptions some way (either a one-time-fee or a purchase) to enroll their legacy Vistana week in the cross-program exchange.

 

[pchung6]

From my understanding, Flexoptions will become Staroptions at 8 months mark. Staroptions is the currency to book ALL Vistana resorts. Flex options only allow the owners to book their home resorts between 12-8 months. Flex home resorts can be either one of Sheraton, Westin or Mexico resorts, not ALL. Only Staroptions can reserve at ANY resorts. Some of the comments above really don’t make sense at all, Flex can’t be the currency, it has to be Staroptions. What about Flex resale with no Staroptions? What about developer week owners that own Staroptions? It’s just like legacy Marriott week owners can select DC points.

 

[SueDonJ]

I think the quick answer is that you are expecting there to be sharing among sister corporations. Just because these separate stand alone corporations are under the MVW umbrella does not mean that they have to share.

It's not possible to "expect" anything because right up until the day MVW announces whatever, if any, integration they'll allow across all platforms under the umbrella, it's impossible to know what it will be. I'm just doing what everyone else is doing, speculating on what might be, based on what MVW offers to its Marriott owners as well as on vaguely-related comments being made not just by sales reps but by corporate officers during investment calls. And while it's certainly true that there's no requirement that everything under the MVW umbrella must integrate in some fashion, it would certainly be to MVW's advantage if it could monetize any- and everything it owns/manages to whatever extent is mutually-advantageous for itself, its existing owners and any future owners.

Allowing enrollment of existing sold Weeks at the time of the DC inception, in order to stock the DC Exchange Company with inventory that would make the new venture a success, did exactly that. But it's a two-way relationship that wouldn't work if owners didn't perceive a benefit from it and there are thousands of owners of enrolled Weeks who will tell you that they're very happy with the DC enhancements to their ownerships, many who were skeptical at the start and/or many who never intend to purchase DC Trust Points.

Right now, I'm speculating how/why MVW might open up opportunities to the owners who have recently come under their umbrella. It's not about whether I want Vistana/Hyatt inventory to be integrated into the DC Exchange Company (which I purposely haven't said if I want it or not) but instead about the ways it can be done. I think offering enrollment to the existing Weeks owners would be fairly simple but not being familiar with the Vistana system and seeing so much pushback against enrollment, I'm left wondering if/why it wouldn't be.

 

[JIMinNC]

From my understanding, Flexoptions will become Staroptions at 8 months mark. Staroptions is the currency to book ALL Vistana resorts. Flex options only allow the owners to book their home resorts between 12-8 months. Flex home resorts can be either one of Sheraton, Westin or Mexico resorts, not ALL. Only Staroptions can reserve at ANY resorts. Some of the comments above really don’t make sense at all, Flex can’t be the currency, it has to be Staroptions. What about Flex resale with no Staroptions? What about developer week owners that own Staroptions? It’s just like legacy Marriott week owners can select DC points.

Thanks for the clarification. As I said above, I think the confusion is being generated by sales reps trying to take advantage of the confusion about what may or may not happen in a way that helps them sell what they are selling - be that FlexOptions or DC Trust points. They may or may not have hints about what is coming, but I think it is clear they are "spinning" the facts in a way to benefit their sales goals. We have been calling that Bountiful Speculation (BS).

 

[pchung6]

I just attended sales presentation from Vistana side. Sales doesn't know anything about the MVC and Vistana integration. He said no one knows what it will be yet, he heard about the rumor but nothing official, at least no one knows at this location in Nanea.

 

[JIMinNC]

I just attended sales presentation from Vistana side. Sales doesn't know anything about the MVC and Vistana integration. He said no one knows what it will be yet, he heard about the rumor but nothing official, at least no one knows at this location in Nanea.

My opinion is this is the most honest, straight answer. I think some of the sales rep comments being reported in this thread are from sales reps who are taking the rumors, treating them as facts, and trying to use that to spin things to sell Vistana Flex, MVC Trust points, etc. Same-old-same-old timeshare sales approach - say whatever you can reasonably justify in your mind as long as it helps you sell the prospect, even if it's not 100% factual. I suspect some rumors are probably floating around internally, and some reps are taking those rumors, running with them, and getting "creative" in how they try to use them.

 

[LeslieDet]

I just attended sales presentation from Vistana side. Sales doesn't know anything about the MVC and Vistana integration. He said no one knows what it will be yet, he heard about the rumor but nothing official, at least no one knows at this location in Nanea.

Do you own at Nanea? I do. Did you receive the email notification dated July 11, 2019, from Nanea that clearly stated: "The resort was recently added to the collection of villa resorts in the Westin Flex vacation program, which gives those Owners preferred access at eight Home Resorts instead of a single Home Resort...Only one building with a resort view has been registered to be sold as part of the Westin Flex collection of villa resorts."

I'm shocked that the Nanea sales folks know nothing. Clearly, one building from the Nanea location has been transferred to the FlexOptions program. That was the "unsold" inventory at the time of the MVW acquisition. That inventory is now available for booking by those folks who bought the FlexOptions (ie points) program at months 9-12.

 

[LeslieDet]

Yes, exactly. In Vistana, FlexOptions are essentially the same as Trust Points in MVC - they just have three separate trusts instead of one. You can keep your deeded week with StarOptions and, if you choose, add to that by buying a batch of FlexOptions separately. This would be essentially the same scenario as an enrolled weeks owner in MVC buying a separate batch of Trust Points to add to the enrolled points they get from their week. Someone who only owned FlexOptions would be just like a Trust-only owner in MVC.

Vistana also allows their weeks owners to essentially trade-in their Vistana week to help pay for FlexOptions, but in this scenario, they come out of it with just FlexOptions, no more week. So after the trade-in they would be just like a Trust-only owner in MVC. All they would own are FlexOptions in one of the Flex trusts. So far, MVC has not tried this approach (trade-in) as a way to get MVC weeks owners to buy Trust points. It would not surprise me, however, if they tried it in the future as a different way to reacquire inventory and sell more expensive points.

All of the above was why I concluded that if your original theory was correct, and only FlexOptions would be able to access the cross-program exchange to book at MVC (meaning that only the Vistana Flex Trust points could play in the MVC sandbox), it would be consistent that they would also limit the cross-program sandbox to just MVC DC Trust Points. Conversely, if they decide to let MVC enrolled points play, it would make sense that they would come up with a point election schedule for every VSE resort, and allow those VSE owners who have StarOptions some way (either a one-time-fee or a purchase) to enroll their legacy Vistana week in the cross-program exchange.

This is where our theories clash - because there is the option to in effect, enroll, the original Westing purchase(s) via buying FlexOptions and adding that to your portfolio (just like enrolled week owners at MVCI can also own DPs directly, and they can be combined to book), that is why I believe that the currency will be FlexOptions to DPs and vice versa; the original StarOptions will not be available to be used as currency, just like unenrolled MVCI weeks cannot be turned into DPs (and thus won't be available to be used as any "currency"). But so long as Vistana is pitching the FlexOptions and allowing folks to enroll their existing StarOptions into the program (without having to give up the deed), then those "enrolled" options should be available. That is why I doubt that MVCI will tell enrolled weeks owners that if they elect DPs they cannot use them as currency to exchange into Vistana. I know that at this point in time, points are points in the MVCI system, with the only exception being that elected DPs cannot thereafter be used to change into BonVoy points (because weeks owners have to do that directly, give up their week in exchange for BonVoy points, and not first elect DPs to thereafter then try and get BonVoy).

Hope that makes my comments clear.

 

[LeslieDet]

From my understanding, Flexoptions will become Staroptions at 8 months mark. Staroptions is the currency to book ALL Vistana resorts. Flex options only allow the owners to book their home resorts between 12-8 months. Flex home resorts can be either one of Sheraton, Westin or Mexico resorts, not ALL. Only Staroptions can reserve at ANY resorts. Some of the comments above really don’t make sense at all, Flex can’t be the currency, it has to be Staroptions. What about Flex resale with no Staroptions? What about developer week owners that own Staroptions? It’s just like legacy Marriott week owners can select DC points.

No, FlexOptions do not magically convert into StarOptions at month 8, rather, that same concept that applies to original Vistana purchasers (ie booking your "home" resort exclusively at months 9-12 and then being able to book any inventory months 1-8) is an option available to FlexOption owners also. It is not that the FlexOptions magically change into something, it is just that they have the same benefit as StarOptions. And, BTW, as of August 2019, the 8 "home" resorts are: Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas, Kaanapali North, Nanea (only one building), Princeville, Mission Hills Villas, Desert Willow Villas, Riverfront Mountain Villas and Kierland Villas. At month 8, there are currently 23 resorts that can be booked (including the origial 8 "home" ones), and thus the additional 15 include various Mexico properties, Steamboat, Atlantis, USVI, etc. (this is not a full list).

And the originally "developer" purchased Vistana StarOptions will need to be "enrolled" (my term, not theirs) by purchasing FlexOptions. They will not be treated like "legacy" week owners who were able to enroll (with no cost) into the DP program.

 

[pchung6]

No, FlexOptions do not magically convert into StarOptions at month 8, rather, that same concept that applies to original Vistana purchasers (ie booking your "home" resort exclusively at months 9-12 and then being able to book any inventory months 1-8) is an option available to FlexOption owners also. It is not that the FlexOptions magically change into something, it is just that they have the same benefit as StarOptions. And, BTW, as of August 2019, the 8 "home" resorts are: Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas, Kaanapali North, Nanea (only one building), Princeville, Mission Hills Villas, Desert Willow Villas, Riverfront Mountain Villas and Kierland Villas. At month 8, there are currently 23 resorts that can be booked (including the origial 8 "home" ones), and thus the additional 15 include various Mexico properties, Steamboat, Atlantis, USVI, etc. (this is not a full list).

And the originally "developer" purchased Vistana StarOptions will need to be "enrolled" (my term, not theirs) by purchasing FlexOptions. They will not be treated like "legacy" week owners who were able to enroll (with no cost) into the DP program.

Unfortunately you are so wrong. You need Staroptions to book other resorts not in your Flex inside 8 months. If you buy Flex resale, you don’t have the ability to use Staroptions, you only have Flexoptions to book few resorts. I hope you didn’t buy any Flex points based on just this speculation.

 

[pchung6]

Do you own at Nanea? I do. Did you receive the email notification dated July 11, 2019, from Nanea that clearly stated: "The resort was recently added to the collection of villa resorts in the Westin Flex vacation program, which gives those Owners preferred access at eight Home Resorts instead of a single Home Resort...Only one building with a resort view has been registered to be sold as part of the Westin Flex collection of villa resorts."

I'm shocked that the Nanea sales folks know nothing. Clearly, one building from the Nanea location has been transferred to the FlexOptions program. That was the "unsold" inventory at the time of the MVW acquisition. That inventory is now available for booking by those folks who bought the FlexOptions (ie points) program at months 9-12.

Only few units in Nanea were added to Westin Flex, not the all the 8 buildings. I was told by sales rep he doesn’t know anything about MVC and Vistana integration, he only heard rumors. Everything we know so far is all speculations, nothing is official included few secret documents people talked earlier.

Btw I do not own Nanea, but I’m currently sitting on the lanai on 5th floor in one of the Nanea building facing straight to the ocean and I own OF unit just 100 feets south. Also has a nice OV unit in the other island called Ko Olina under MVC.

 

[controller1]

No, FlexOptions do not magically convert into StarOptions at month 8, rather, that same concept that applies to original Vistana purchasers (ie booking your "home" resort exclusively at months 9-12 and then being able to book any inventory months 1-8) is an option available to FlexOption owners also. It is not that the FlexOptions magically change into something, it is just that they have the same benefit as StarOptions. And, BTW, as of August 2019, the 8 "home" resorts are: Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas, Kaanapali North, Nanea (only one building), Princeville, Mission Hills Villas, Desert Willow Villas, Riverfront Mountain Villas and Kierland Villas. At month 8, there are currently 23 resorts that can be booked (including the origial 8 "home" ones), and thus the additional 15 include various Mexico properties, Steamboat, Atlantis, USVI, etc. (this is not a full list).

And the originally "developer" purchased Vistana StarOptions will need to be "enrolled" (my term, not theirs) by purchasing FlexOptions. They will not be treated like "legacy" week owners who were able to enroll (with no cost) into the DP program.

Your use of the term Vistana FlexOptions is really confusing. There is no such program as Vistana FlexOptions.

From your post quoted above it is clear you are referring to the Westin Flex program. Using incorrect titles just provides confusion. There are currently four flex programs within Vistana.

(1) Sheraton Flex:

• Sheraton Vistana Villages
• Sheraton Vistana Resort
• Sheraton Broadway Plantation
• Sheraton Desert Oasis
• Sheraton Steamboat Resort Villas
• Vistana Beach Club
• Sheraton Mountain Vista
• Sheraton Lakeside Terrace Villas at Mountain Vista

(2) Westin Flex:

• The Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas
• The Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas North
• The Westin Nanea Ocean Villas
• The Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas
• The Westin Desert Willow Villas, Palm Desert
• The Westin Mission Hills Resort Villas, Palm Springs
• The Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas
• The Westin Kierland Villas

(3) Westin Aventuras:

• The Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas & Spa
• The Westin Lagunamar Ocean Resort

(4) Westin Nanea Flex

 

[SueDonJ]

... They will not be treated like "legacy" week owners who were able to enroll (with no cost) into the DP program.

Assuming "DP" is Destination Points and you're talking about the Marriott process of eligible owned Weeks being allowed to enroll in the Destination Club, there is a cost in the form of a one-time Enrollment Fee which is currently $2,395. The Enrollment Fee is waived in certain situations, such as when DC Trust Points are purchased simultaneous with the enrollment of already-owned eligible Weeks or a direct-resale purchase of Weeks. There are also occasional sales incentives that entail waivers of the Enrollment Fee for eligible Weeks.

This is why there was so much pushback by Marriott owners to another participation fee when the discussion started about MVW possibly integrating Vistana/Hyatt with Marriott in some sort of internal exchange system, especially among those who think the Destination Club Exchange Company could be that vehicle. The word "legacy" is used by TUGgers more to differentiate the Marriott Weeks product that was sold prior to the DC inception from the Points product which has been available since, less as a differential between Weeks that are and are not eligible for DC enrollment. The overwhelming majority of Marriott Weeks owners who enrolled their eligible "legacy" Weeks did, in fact, pay a one-time Enrollment Fee (while far fewer satisfied the terms for a waiver) for membership in the DC Exchange Company.

 

[CPNY]

I do not know all of the different structures that are being offered by Vistana regarding the ownership; I only know that I could have purchased FlexOptions directly, I could have used my existing Vistana deeded ownership to "pay" for buying FlexOptions (and have received 100% of my purchase price applied) and yes, I would have given up ownership in Hawaii and received points ownership in FL land trust. Because I was not interested, I did not bother to go into detail on costs etc., but I could have also have kept my existing ownership and bought new FlexOptions. I did not drill down into the specifics of how that would work, and I summarily dismissed it. Now, in hindsight, I wish I'd have asked lots of questions about how to keep what I own in Vistana and also join the FlexOptions program by just buying points. Oh well, some other time....

You did the right thing by keeping your Hawaii week and not buying into the new flex plan. They are offering equity for your Hawaii week to get the availability. Then you’re buying back in with money out of pocket. Buying into the flex plan has no affect on whether or not you can play in a joint program because nothing is set yet. They are spewing forged facts aka known as BS.

 

[JIMinNC]

This is where our theories clash - because there is the option to in effect, enroll, the original Westing purchase(s) via buying FlexOptions and adding that to your portfolio (just like enrolled week owners at MVCI can also own DPs directly, and they can be combined to book), that is why I believe that the currency will be FlexOptions to DPs and vice versa; the original StarOptions will not be available to be used as currency, just like unenrolled MVCI weeks cannot be turned into DPs (and thus won't be available to be used as any "currency"). But so long as Vistana is pitching the FlexOptions and allowing folks to enroll their existing StarOptions into the program (without having to give up the deed), then those "enrolled" options should be available. That is why I doubt that MVCI will tell enrolled weeks owners that if they elect DPs they cannot use them as currency to exchange into Vistana. I know that at this point in time, points are points in the MVCI system, with the only exception being that elected DPs cannot thereafter be used to change into BonVoy points (because weeks owners have to do that directly, give up their week in exchange for BonVoy points, and not first elect DPs to thereafter then try and get BonVoy).

Hope that makes my comments clear.

I think the problem is that we each have different understandings of the relationship between the Flex programs and StarOptions. My understanding is more in line with that voiced by @pchung6 and @controller1.
1) Owners in the Flex programs have HomeOptions that can be used to book within their Flex resort groups from 12-8 months.
2) At the 8 month point, those Home Options can be used to book in the VSN network. Whether they officially convert to StarOptions or not seems to be semantics, the important thing is they can be used just like all other StarOptions to book in VSN.

This is from the FAQ in the Stickies in the Vistana Forum:

What are the differences between HomeOptions and StarOptions?

Frequently, people overcomplicate their understanding of HomeOptions by thinking of them as completely distinct from StarOptions. However, it is easiest to understand HomeOptions by thinking of them simply as a special type of StarOption, with the following single difference:
HomeOptions can also be used to make home resort reservations at Sheraton Flex resorts during the home resort preference period.
Note that the home resort preference period is 12 months to 8 months prior to arrival. For resale Sheraton Flex ownerships which have not been requalified, an owner can continue making home resort reservations 8 months or less prior to arrival. For other Sheraton Flex ownerships, reservations made 8 months or less prior to arrival would be SVN reservations.

Also the statement that just buying a Flex interest somehow "enrolls" someone's pre-existing week-based StarOptions into some program does not seem to accurately represent how I understand the system works. Yes, you can combine Flex points (HomeOptions, Flex Options, whatever you want to call them) with week-based StarOptions to book, just like an MVC owner that has an enrolled Destination Points can combine them with any Trust points they own, but owning in a Flex program doesn't "supercharge" your "legacy" StarOptions. You just have HomeOptions from your Flex program and also StarOptions from your week deed and can combine them to book in VSN at 8 months. In MVC it works exactly the same way - an owner can more-or-less seamlessly combine their Trust points and enrolled points to book reservations.

Maybe some of the expert Vistana owners like @pchung6, @CPNY, and @controller1 can chime and clarify. What you are saying sounds a lot like what MVC sales reps have, for years, been trying to sell MVC enrolled owners on the false impression that buying MVC DC Trust points somehow "supercharges" enrolled DC Points. We've seen no evidence that they do, so maybe the Vistana sales reps you met with are adopting the MVC sales technique of "supercharged" points.

I think it could work in either of at least two ways:

1) Any cross-program exchange could be open only to Vistana Flex points or MVC Trust points (the products they are actively selling).
2) The cross-exchange could be opened to both Vistana StarOptions (both from Flex and from deeded weeks) and both Trust and enrolled MVC DC Points, but some sort of qualification will be required - either a one-time fee or possibly a new purchase of Flex or DC Trust points.

If I were betting, I would bet on Option #2, but if they want to try to use cross-program booking as an incentive to sell VSN Flex and MVC Trust points, they might choose Option #1.

We will eventually find out.

 

[JIMinNC]

Do you own at Nanea? I do. Did you receive the email notification dated July 11, 2019, from Nanea that clearly stated: "The resort was recently added to the collection of villa resorts in the Westin Flex vacation program, which gives those Owners preferred access at eight Home Resorts instead of a single Home Resort...Only one building with a resort view has been registered to be sold as part of the Westin Flex collection of villa resorts."

I'm shocked that the Nanea sales folks know nothing. Clearly, one building from the Nanea location has been transferred to the FlexOptions program. That was the "unsold" inventory at the time of the MVW acquisition. That inventory is now available for booking by those folks who bought the FlexOptions (ie points) program at months 9-12.

But the inclusion of part of Nanea into Westin Flex was not what @pchung6 said sales said they knew nothing about. He said they knew nothing about a combined Westin/Sheraton/Marriott exchange program. The combination of Nanea into Westin Flex is a totally different thing.

 

[LeslieDet]

Unfortunately you are so wrong. You need Staroptions to book other resorts not in your Flex inside 8 months. If you buy Flex resale, you don’t have the ability to use Staroptions, you only have Flexoptions to book few resorts. I hope you didn’t buy any Flex points based on just this speculation.

I have no clue why you are on a tangent about buying FlexOptions "resale". I haven't talked at all about resale in the FlexOptions arena, and do not even know if that is possible. What I know is that the FlexOptions program started on 1/4/18; they are being sold now. If you buy FlexOptions from Vistana (whether or not you use your existing Vistana ownership as a "payment" by turning in your old deed in exchange for full credit against your purchase of FlexOptions), I guarantee you that those FlexOptions can indeed be used to book at the 23 resorts identified at months 1-8 (which include the existing 8 "home" resorts plus 15 more).

 

[LeslieDet]

Only few units in Nanea were added to Westin Flex, not the all the 8 buildings. I was told by sales rep he doesn’t know anything about MVC and Vistana integration, he only heard rumors. Everything we know so far is all speculations, nothing is official included few secret documents people talked earlier.

Btw I do not own Nanea, but I’m currently sitting on the lanai on 5th floor in one of the Nanea building facing straight to the ocean and I own OF unit just 100 feets south. Also has a nice OV unit in the other island called Ko Olina under MVC.

I'm not here to argue with you, but I really do not understand why you cannot read what I wrote, and where I quoted the email from Nanea. Only ONE building was sold to the Westin Flex" program. That is NOT my terminology, that is a direct quote from the email I received from Nanea. So, it is more than "only a few units". And I have no clue why you would even comment about all 8 buildings. But whatever. Facts. I'm talking factual information.

 

[LeslieDet]

Assuming "DP" is Destination Points and you're talking about the Marriott process of eligible owned Weeks being allowed to enroll in the Destination Club, there is a cost in the form of a one-time Enrollment Fee which is currently $2,395. The Enrollment Fee is waived in certain situations, such as when DC Trust Points are purchased simultaneous with the enrollment of already-owned eligible Weeks or a direct-resale purchase of Weeks. There are also occasional sales incentives that entail waivers of the Enrollment Fee for eligible Weeks.

This is why there was so much pushback by Marriott owners to another participation fee when the discussion started about MVW possibly integrating Vistana/Hyatt with Marriott in some sort of internal exchange system, especially among those who think the Destination Club Exchange Company could be that vehicle. The word "legacy" is used by TUGgers more to differentiate the Marriott Weeks product that was sold prior to the DC inception from the Points product which has been available since, less as a differential between Weeks that are and are not eligible for DC enrollment. The overwhelming majority of Marriott Weeks owners who enrolled their eligible "legacy" Weeks did, in fact, pay a one-time Enrollment Fee (while far fewer satisfied the terms for a waiver) for membership in the DC Exchange Company.

I've been a MVCI owner since 2002. I have what you refer to as a "legacy" week. I did not pay to enroll my week, and for at least the past 4 years, MVCI has been enrolling "legacy" week owners for free, provided they watch an online tutorial.

 

[LeslieDet]

But the inclusion of part of Nanea into Westin Flex was not what @pchung6 said sales said they knew nothing about. He said they knew nothing about a combined Westin/Sheraton/Marriott exchange program. The combination of Nanea into Westin Flex is a totally different thing.

Not once have I mentioned anything about a combined Westin/Sheraton/Marriott exchange program. You guys bring Sheraton into the fold, not me. I've only been talking about Vistana (because that is the legal name of the entity that is now selling the Westin FlexOptions program). I get that it is what it is, and all of the details have not yet been identified. My entire point of adding a comment to this feed was to respond to the comments about folks "waiting" for their Westin timeshares to be combined into their Marriott ownership so that they can book either location. I do not believe that is ever going to happen. This was not a merger. It was an acquisition by MVW of ILG (who owned Vistana, since Vistana was created under the umbrella of ILG, before MVW acquired ILG).

And, BTW, under the FlexOptions program, an owner cannot combine the old StarOptions with new FlexOptions (as I understand the program) for a booking, unless the owner has bought into the FlexOptions program and somehow "enrolled" (again, that is my term) their "legacy" Westin purchase. As I mentioned much earlier, when I was attending the update. I did not explore all of the details to do that, because it was of zero interest to me. I have plenty of ownership between 4 MVCI weeks and points, my Vistana ownership, plus other properties in Cabo. I'm not interested in adding FlexOptions and told them that I was not interested in using the title to my Nanea property to buy FlexOptions, nor did I want to buy stand alone FlexOptions to give myself months 9-12 access to the 8 "home" resorts. Just an aside though, the sales folks were saying that I'd soon find it impossible to book my Nanea ownership at 12 months because of all of the FlexOption owners who will have access. I did not bother to let the sales folks know that I'd already received an email from Nanea telling me that only one building was sold.

 

[Steve Fatula]

I've been a MVCI owner since 2002. I have what you refer to as a "legacy" week. I did not pay to enroll my week, and for at least the past 4 years, MVCI has been enrolling "legacy" week owners for free, provided they watch an online tutorial.

Yes, but not post 2010 weeks (for free). Just to clarify.