[OFFICIAL Vistana *2019* Maintenance Fees Thread]

[tae1970]

Westin Princeville
2 bedroom lock off, been year float 148,100
Maintenance fee $1528.88
Membership fee $151.04
Total $1679.92
2018 total was $1620.02

Westin Nanea
Even year floating 176,700
Maintenance fee $1483.26
Membership fee $52.08
Total $1545.34
2018 total was $1553.62

 

[CPNY]

I have recently realized that the notices for the HOA Board meetings give information about the upcoming annual fees. On the back of the letter announcing the HOA Board meeting for Vistana Viallges, is next yea's budget.

I always ignored the budget in the past, thinking I could never figure it out. But, I looked carefully this time and saw "operating expenses" and "reserves" listed. I suspect these will be rubber-stamped at the board meeting. So, the only component of annual fees that isn't already know is the state real estate taxes. (The HOA Board has no say over the state taxes.)

There was also a section saying the estimated remaining life of the elements of the physical plant (the roofs, the HVAC, etc). It also said how much the items were expected to cost to replace, and how much in replacement funds had been set aside.

It looks like there is a gold mind of information there. Unfortunately, I put my Board Meeting announcements in the recycle bin. But, it would be worth sharing our knowledge here and trying to figure out things such as whether replacements are adequately funded, whether bad debt is higher than last year, etc.

I did recall that the bad debt for my Vistana Village HOA was 9%, and I thought that was surprisingly high. I believe this was for Key West, although I also own Bella.

Upshot: Probably all of the annual fees for next year have already been announced, not including the real estate taxes.

You wouldn’t happen to know the maint fee details for a one bedroom premium in Bella phase would you?

 

[dms11]

Is there a 2020 MF thread yet? Until I find it, here are my 2020 MF details:

Westin Aventuras 148,100 options/Annual Float
Maintenance Fee: $2170.70
Membership Fee: $155.00
2020 Total: $2325.70
2019 Total: $2176.93
Increase of $148.77 or 6.8%

 

[jabberwocky]

Is there a 2020 MF thread yet? Until I find it, here are my 2020 MF details:

Westin Aventuras 148,100 options/Annual Float
Maintenance Fee: $2170.70
Membership Fee: $155.00
2020 Total: $2325.70
2019 Total: $2176.93
Increase of $148.77 or 6.8%

I think you win the prize for the first 2020 post! Mods will probably move to a new thread.

 

[DannyTS]

Is there a 2020 MF thread yet? Until I find it, here are my 2020 MF details:

Westin Aventuras 148,100 options/Annual Float
Maintenance Fee: $2170.70
Membership Fee: $155.00
2020 Total: $2325.70
2019 Total: $2176.93
Increase of $148.77 or 6.8%

7% up! What happened?

 

[CPNY]

Speaking of Maint Fees. What are the possibilities of an Orlando Dorian hit? Wonder how much damage the Orlando resorts may face

 

[controller1]

WESTIN FLEX

2020
257,700 options
VOI assessment - $5,210.69

2019
257,700 options
VOI assessment - $4,878.26

INCREASE - 6.8%

 

[vacationtime1]

WESTIN FLEX

2020
257,700 options
VOI assessment - $5,210.69

2019
257,700 options
VOI assessment - $4,878.26

INCREASE - 6.8%

View attachment 13704

Reading just a bit of the fine print tells us one reason for the increase in MF's is "increases in annual reserve funding in order to maintain positive cash flow and achieve long-term funding objectives."

An admission that the original MF's were insufficient and that increases will be required.

 

[jabberwocky]

Reading just a bit of the fine print tells us one reason for the increase in MF's is "increases in annual reserve funding in order to maintain positive cash flow and achieve long-term funding objectives."

An admission that the original MF's were insufficient and that increases will be required.

It also notes that the MF’s associated with underlying properties increased.

Remember Vistana just dumped a huge number of Nanea weeks into the trust (last number I saw was 1872 weeks or just under 260 million HO points). The underlying mix of properties is getting weighted to the higher cost properties.

 

[DannyTS]

Both Westin Aventuras and Westin Flex increased by the exact same %, a curious coincidence, so it looks to me that the change was more by design than driven by the MF of the underlying resorts. Let's see Sheraton Flex. Now I am really curious about the 2020 MF of all my Vistana weeks. I hope a 7% increase across the board will not be the first "present" from our new owner MVW.

 

[controller1]

Reading just a bit of the fine print tells us one reason for the increase in MF's is "increases in annual reserve funding in order to maintain positive cash flow and achieve long-term funding objectives."

An admission that the original MF's were insufficient and that increases will be required.

It also notes that the MF’s associated with underlying properties increased.

Remember Vistana just dumped a huge number of Nanea weeks into the trust (last number I saw was 1872 weeks or just under 260 million HO points). The underlying mix of properties is getting weighted to the higher cost properties.

Both Westin Aventuras and Westin Flex increased by the exact same %, a curious coincidence, so it looks to me that the change was more by design than driven by the MF of the underlying resorts. Let's see Sheraton Flex. Now I am really curious about the 2020 MF of all my Vistana weeks. I hope a 7% increase across the board will not be the first "present" from our new owner MVW.

Considering 94% of the Westin Flex MF increase is due to the MF increases at the underlying properties, I expect to see 6.5% - 7% increases in MFs at all the Westin properties. IMO we are beginning to see the impact of Marriott Vacations Worldwide since the increases at the legacy MVC properties over the past five years have been significantly higher, on average, than the Vistana MF increases.

 

[DannyTS]

Considering 94% of the Westin Flex MF increase is due to the MF increases at the underlying properties, I expect to see 6.5% - 7% increases in MFs at all the Westin properties. IMO we are beginning to see the impact of Marriott Vacations Worldwide since the increases at the legacy MVC properties over the past five years have been significantly higher, on average, than the Vistana MF increases.

How can they justify such an increase in MF at the underlying resorts? Why would Westin Kierland, SVV, Lagunamar and a Westin in Hawaii experience similar increases? Different labor markets, local taxes, utility costs etc

 

[DannyTS]

Is there a 2020 MF thread yet? Until I find it, here are my 2020 MF details:

Westin Aventuras 148,100 options/Annual Float
Maintenance Fee: $2170.70
Membership Fee: $155.00
2020 Total: $2325.70
2019 Total: $2176.93
Increase of $148.77 or 6.8%

Yesterday we visited Westin Los Cabos, we are staying at another resort. FWIW we were offered the promo package for about $100 a night for a studio for any of the Mexican Westin resorts including Westin Puerto Vallarta. I assume that it will be included in Westin Aventuras very soon if it is not in the trust already. If true, this may also skew the numbers by quite a bit. I just do not see, based on the history of the MF at Lagunamar as well as the healthy reserves what would justify a 7% increase at this resort.

 

[DeniseM]

Regarding 2020 maintenance fees: I believe that the numbers you find on your account are just estimates, and I recommend waiting for the official maintenance fees, before you post them. I will start a 2020 thread when official numbers are available.

 

[DannyTS]

Regarding 2020 maintenance fees: I believe that the numbers you find on your account are just estimates, and I recommend waiting for the official maintenance fees, before you post them. I will start a 2020 thread when official numbers are available.

Based on the Ebay listings I have seen, the Flex MF are due in October or November (I do not remember) so it is possible they are the actual numbers

 

[DeniseM]

It's definitely possible, but has anyone posted that they have received a bill?

 

[andysnovel]

It's definitely possible, but has anyone posted that they have received a bill?

I just called, my Sheraton Flex 104,100 SO account is being billed 1844.34 on 9/27.

 

[DannyTS]

I just called, my Sheraton Flex 104,100 SO account is being billed 1844.34 on 9/27.

Does that include the VSN fees or not?

 

[DeniseM]

When you (or anyone) gets an actual bill - please dm me and I will start the new thread. I don't want to start it early, because I don't want estimates posted prematurely.

 

[andysnovel]

Does that include the VSN fees or not?

Includes $155 membership fee.

 

[DeniseM]

There is a new sticky at the top of the page for 2020.

Friendly Request: Please don't post the estimates found on your Vistana Acct. - please post figures from the actual invoices, when you receive them.

 

[dioxide45]

While the reserves may appear to be funded adequately, Marriott really upped the amount they were putting in the reserves at many of their properties over the last few years. So I suspect the same is true now at Vistana resorts. I am sure they are pushing to up the reserves because more MF collected means more to Marriott and Vistana's management fee. It always seemed odd that our Grande Vista fee went up about 4-7% every year but the last two years our SVV Bella and Key West fees went down or were flat. Sadly I fear steep hikes in MFs at many of the resorts.

Our SVV fees were under $1200 where Grande Vista is close to $1500.

 

[DannyTS]

While the reserves may appear to be funded adequately, Marriott really upped the amount they were putting in the reserves at many of their properties over the last few years. So I suspect the same is true now at Vistana resorts. I am sure they are pushing to up the reserves because more MF collected means more to Marriott and Vistana's management fee. It always seemed odd that our Grande Vista fee went up about 4-7% every year but the last two years our SVV Bella and Key West fees went down or were flat. Sadly I fear steep hikes in MFs at many of the resorts.

Our SVV fees were under $1200 where Grande Vista is close to $1500.

To be honest it would be ridiculous to increase the SVV fees by 25% (or any amount) just to catch up with Marriott without a justification in actual expenses. Again I hope it will not happen. By the way, what are the Marriott accrued reserves percentage of the annual budget compared to Vistana?

 

[DannyTS]

While the reserves may appear to be funded adequately, Marriott really upped the amount they were putting in the reserves at many of their properties over the last few years. So I suspect the same is true now at Vistana resorts. I am sure they are pushing to up the reserves because more MF collected means more to Marriott and Vistana's management fee. It always seemed odd that our Grande Vista fee went up about 4-7% every year but the last two years our SVV Bella and Key West fees went down or were flat. Sadly I fear steep hikes in MFs at many of the resorts.

Our SVV fees were under $1200 where Grande Vista is close to $1500.

If I am not mistaken, the management fee is calculated before the reserves, just based on the operating expenses.

 

[jabberwocky]

According to Exhibit C of the Westin Flex Governing Document (Budget and Assessments) the developer guaranteed each owner that the total annual assessments would not exceed $0.01893 per point up until Dec. 31, 2019.

Is it possible that this guarantee kept the MF's below where they actually should have been in order to sell more Flex and as a result we're seeing a higher than normal increase now that the guarantee is gone? It will be interesting to see how it plays out with the underlying resorts MF's over the next few weeks as assessments start rolling in.