Are owners really owners?

[controller1]

Shrug. . . What do experiences buy you as you reach retirement? Capital goods have values that span generations. (Not that I consider a timeshare a capital good. . . )

Recent research from San Francisco State University found that people who spent money on experiences rather than material items were happier and felt the money was better spent.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ilyapo...money-on-experiences-not-things/#6b4a41d139a6

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

At what price? If one goes through the timeshare company, it's usually at a much greater price.

But that is true for virtually all rentals. You pay more, per unit, than owning. The counter points are that:

1. One uses many fewer units that one pays for by owning. Therefore saving money, net. (The Uber concept.)
2. One is willing to pay for convenience. (So what if it costs more. I buy what I want, when I want.)
3. One is planning on "bargain hunting" as a lifestyle. Always looking for mispriced/distressed goods. (I want to vacation in timeshares, but I'm cheap. I only rent off the TUG last minute page, for example.)

In the end, ownership provides (generically) certainty and choice, and usually price control - to a certain extent. But it's a free country. One picks as one chooses.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Recent research from San Francisco State University found that people who spent money on experiences rather than material items were happier and felt the money was better spent.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ilyapo...money-on-experiences-not-things/#6b4a41d139a6

I wonder how many 70-80 year olds they interviewed? I ask this not because I think geezers/geezeresses have the keys to wisdom, but all actions have consequences that play out over time. Until you see the long term end points of people who follow the experiences lifestyle, you really don't know the answer. Will they be content with the relative poverty they will have (in old age), relative to those who didn't follow the "experiences" lifestyle?

Inquiring minds want to know. . . .

 

[LannyPC]

...a non owner can just make a phone call and rent something as well, with no future commitments.

Which is one of many reasons why some here on TUG would recommend to newbies to look at renting as opposed to owning.

 

[CanadaGuyEh]

I was going to rent - ended up buying (bought all resale) so that I can look at inventory and make a plan - and I enjoy being part of. For me it works - own Hilton, Wyndham, and WorldMark - like them all and will be others if pop up onto my radar. I offer what I can't use to my family to use for free and if still not used I roll to RCI or Hilton Honor points. Is hard for me to stay in hotel after timesharing - they units and locations are just so much more wow. I do own - have deeds on the Hilton and Wyndham - the WorldMark though is points so dont' think own anything there. I can leave all in my will - future generations can get them for free if want them.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Thing is, if owning a timeshare got you more exclusive resort privileges than the retail renters, I could see a benefit. But not the case anymore.

Perhaps it is an issue with your resort.

Not true for us. We use our HGV and Vistana ownerships for ocean front in Hawaii. These units are usually booked up by owners but if they are available from the hotel site, they are nosebleed expensive and renters get the worst views because of lowest priority (as it should be). As owners (and stroke of midnight bookers) we were #1 priority and got the best oceanfront room in the resort at Westin Kaanapali this summer (top floor, closest to the ocean, priceless!)

At HGVC in NYC only owners can use the lounge for breakfast and evening drinks/appetizers, renters and exchangers are not allowed. Again if rooms are available they are nosebleed expensive. Hotel points are prohibitive plus no lounge privileges.

 

[WinniWoman]

Perhaps it is an issue with your resort.

Not true for us. We use our HGV and Vistana ownerships for ocean front in Hawaii. These units are usually booked up by owners but if they are available from the hotel site, they are nosebleed expensive and renters get the worst views because of lowest priority (as it should be). As owners (and stroke of midnight bookers) we were #1 priority and got the best oceanfront room in the resort at Westin Kaanapali this summer (top floor, closest to the ocean, priceless!)

At HGVC in NYC only owners can use the lounge for breakfast and evening drinks/appetizers, renters and exchangers are not allowed. Again if rooms are available they are nosebleed expensive. Hotel points are prohibitive plus no lounge privileges.

Ok.

I don't play the points game. We bought in a unit with great views and that is what we use every year. We just show up. Don;t have to book anything.

But I see renters next door to us a lot also with the same views. Even our freebie unit in the other resort has a nice view and is top floor. But- again- people can rent and exchange and able to get those as well if available.

But what other so called privileges do you get as an owner?

I am going to Cable Mountain Lodge next week- not a timeshare. But I booked- as a rental- a luxury suite with a kitchen with park side views. I called and asked if they had a teapot in the unit. They said no, but if I wanted one they would have it for me when we arrive.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@mpumilia Our Westin Kaanapali is a week not points (but floating). We own a week in NYC so get into the owners' lounge. Although we use mini-system points to trade into HGVC Hawaii, we get high priority as system owners. Hawaii owners are a rung above us. Still much better than renters in all three situations who get no food and stare at the parking garage or palm trees on lower floors.

 

[WinniWoman]

@mpumilia Our Westin Kaanapali is a week not points (but floating). We own a week in NYC so get the lounge. Although we use mini-system points to trade into HGVC Hawaii, we get high priority as system owners. Hawaii owners are a rung above us. Still much better than renters in all three situations who get no food and stare at palm trees on lower floors.

I hear ya! Hawaii is probably a different ball game. Though I still bet renters could rent elsewhere in some very awesome units. Does not have to be a timeshare resort.

I also have a floater but I generally use it for the date that is assigned. That is how it works at our resort. They assign a week you can just show up for as well.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I hear ya! Hawaii is probably a different ball game. Though I still bet renters could rent elsewhere in some very awesome units. Does not have to be a timeshare resort.

I also have a floater but I generally use it for the date that is assigned. That is how it works at our resort. They assign a week you can just show up for as well.

Yes but they would be paying a fortune in Hawaii for the same oceanfront view and amenities with a 2 bdrm condo. We calculated that by buying our unit resale we would only have to use it 3 times to be ahead of the cost of a rental during peak season which can run $4,800+ per week privately, and $7000 per week on the hotel site if you can find it.

Sure you can find less expensive off the beach, in an older resort, or with fewer amenities, but that's not the same.

 

[WinniWoman]

Yes but they would be paying a fortune in Hawaii for the same view with a 2 bdrm condo. We calculated that by buying our unit resale we would only have to use it 3 times to be ahead of the cost of a rental during peak season which can run $4,800+ per week privately, and $7000 per week on the hotel site if you can find it.

Crazy expensive in Hawaii for sure!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Of course there are other places where it is the same or lower to rent. Orlando, Vegas come to mind.

BTW...just thought of another owner perk. HGVC owners at the Elara in Vegas have their own private pool deck, cabanas and spa set in a large L shaped balcony surrounding the pool area. The Blvd property in Vegas has an owners lounge. No renters allowed.

HGVC owners in NYC, DC and Vegas get Elevated Rewards which offer 15% off restaurants and attractions.

Vistana Owners get discounts on food and amenities at resorts (varies by location). And they get 25% off rentals of Vistana and Marriott properties via Marriott.com. MVC owners get this too.

MVC owners get 5 night Marriott Hotel travel certs - not just seven nights that is offered to the public. This has devalued recently but IMO 5 nights is better than seven.

 

[WinniWoman]

Of course there are other places where it is the same or lower to rent. Orlando, Vegas come to mind.

BTW...just thought of another owner perk. HGVC owners at the Elara in Vegas have their own private pool deck, cabanas and spa set in a large L shaped balcony surrounding the pool area. The Blvd property in Vegas has an owners lounge. No renters allowed.

Yeah- see that is different at our resorts. At Smuggs, our community does have it's own pool but renters and exchangers staying in the community use it there as well/

 

[Fredflintstone]

Thing is, if owning a timeshare got you more exclusive resort privileges than the retail renters, I could see a benefit. But not the case anymore.

Great point! I rent timeshares regularly and get great pricing.

I remember when I checked into a Hilton that I rented and overheard an “owner” mad as a hatter because they could only get a studio for the week and here I am getting a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom ocean view for 800 bux.

The front desk person said, “too bad...that’s all we have”

In my view, that owner should get first priority before any rentals.

BTW, I rented the suite on sale at Expedia.com. It was a “blow out sale”. It was booked 6 months in advance.


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[CalGalTraveler]

Great point! I rent timeshares regularly and get great pricing.

I remember when I checked into a Hilton that I rented and overheard an “owner” mad as a hatter because they could only get a studio for the week and here I am getting a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom ocean view for 800 bux.

The front desk person said, “too bad...that’s all we have”

In my view, that owner should get first priority before any rentals.

BTW, I rented the suite on sale at Expedia.com. It was a “blow out sale”. It was booked 6 months in advance.


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Was this an HGVC property or Hilton Hotel? If Hilton Hotel you don't get squat, but you do get Silver or Gold Elite which anyone can get with a credit card. If HGVC it is not possible to get an upgrade from a Studio unless you used your points to reserve a larger unit. It's a different system but you know what you are getting before you arrive and don't play front desk upgrade roullette.

BTW...HGVC owners get last minute cash rates within 30 days for HGVC resorts. At one time it was insanely good e.g. $89/night for a 2 bdrm. This has been devalued over time but is still a decent deal i.e. a 1 bdrm for about $129 a night. 2 bdrm for $160 in certain locations.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Crazy expensive in Hawaii for sure!

Yes, it’s expensive in Hawaii, but gems can be found. I have never paid more than 150 a night in Maui, Kauai, and the Big Island. Yes, many were studio apartments (2 were houses but small) All with beautiful ocean views, many with pool, hot tub, BBQs and small gyms. All were home away, Airbnb and on Craig’s list.

I have enjoyed Maui Ocean Club 2 bedroom from a generous tugger for 800 for the week and the Hilton Waikiki one bedroom ocean view same price.

So, they are out there with combing.


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[CalGalTraveler]

So, they are out there with combing.


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Yes, combing plus flexibility. Difficult to do when you have fixed school week schedules and plan for airfare for 4 family members who need a 2 bedroom during peak season.

Easier to do with just 1 or two and flexible schedules.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Was this an HGVC property or Hilton Hotel. If Hilton Hotel you don't get squat, but you do get Silver or Gold Elite which anyone can get with a credit card. If HGVC it is not possible to get an upgrade from a Studio unless you used your points to reserve a larger unit. It's a different system but you know what you ar getting before you arrive.

The one I was referring to was at Hilton Hawaiian Village, Waikiki.

Funny, I have, out of couriousity hear a tugger can’t get a booking so I check on Expedia.com and most times it’s no problem.

Just a sidetracked thought. If you are refused reservations because they say they are full, see if you can book thru Expedia and if you can call them back and ask hard questions.


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[CalGalTraveler]

@Fredflintstone What building? HHV has both Hotel and HGVC. What season? What was your view like? What floor?

 

[Fredflintstone]

Yes, combing plus flexibility. Difficult to do when you have fixed school week schedules and plan for airfare for 4 family members who need a 2 bedroom during peak season.

Easier to do with just 1 or two and flexible schedules.

True.

However, I have booked great vacation places for friends 3 months ahead during prime times like Christmas paying no more than 150 a night in Hawaii.


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[Fredflintstone]

@Fredflintstone What building? HHV has both Hotel and HGVC. What season? What was your view like? What floor?

Had to check my receipt. It says the Lagoon Tower. It was very nice with a kitchen.

I went from January 10 to 17th.

View. Ocean front

10th floor


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[Fredflintstone]

What I used to do when I had ownership, I would save every month to have the money for MF. Then, scrape to have airfare and spending money. I used to own 4 weeks, mostly legacy resorts.

Now, i save the same amount but rent when I find the deals on condos and airfare. It works better for me. I now feel I own my vacation because I can better control it. However, still respect timeshare owners decisions as well.


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[Fredflintstone]

I have also rented the iiikai timeshare hotel next door. On that one I booked it at booking.com. It was 145 a night, studio with a kitchenette and Ocean View. Ninth floor. As I recall it was a shell vacations timeshare. What was funny was the “owner” got housekeeping once at check in and I got housekeeping services daily. I still can’t figure that one out.

Oops, I booked that one from November 11 to 20th a few years back. 2016 to be exact.
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[Fredflintstone]

One of the threads said Millennials are a different breed. I couldn’t agree more. Yes, the are quick to shack up and slow to marriage. They like flexibility and dislike ownership because ownership means commitment which can be perceived as loss of freedom.

For myself, who is a baby boomer, I think I am adapting millennial thinking more and more. I see Kash as King and a sign of freedom and choice. I see points as pointless because they control the points whereas I control the ca$h.

I learned that from my Millennial son one day. We really wanted to use out RCI points to book something in Carlsbad. We tried 10 months in. We had a premium membership at the time. Nothing was available BUT I could stay in Indio, CA....

My son pressed the Extra Vacations for the same week. No problem...we had over 5 choices but needed to pay CA$H....that was really the start of me saying can the ownership.. let’s be renters instead.

Just my experiences.


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[CalGalTraveler]

@Fredflintstone Very nice Lagoon Tower unit! That's the unit we like to stay in but they place us on a higher floor. (Jan 10 - 17 is a lull between Christmas and Spring Break - doesn't work for ppl who have school age kids and need a 2 bdrm unit.)

Here is the view from this year in the same building in a 3 bedroom 2 story penthouse over July 4. We watched the fireworks at Ala Moana park from our balcony and avoided the crowds.

Prior year 21st floor LT Oceanfront during peak summer.