HGVC- Anyone successful in getting out of your ownership?

[Riv44]

My wife bought in to Elara in LV in 2014, lots of things have changed in our lives and now she wants to get out of this. HGVC won't buy it back, she looked into a few of those "exit" companies,(too many red flags, high costs for her ending up having to do all the work, etc) and in reading a number of threads, lots of folks say to stop payments. Wondering if anyone has done this, what did HGVD do, assuming things went into foreclosure. She understands that she will take a hit on her credit, but wondering what if any legal issues we will be faced with.
She is current with mortgage (still owes a balance) and MF.
Any advice or guidance welcomed! Thanks in advance.

 

[Jason245]

Depending on how many points the contract has it may be worth something but probably a lot less than what was paid.

The general guidance is to pay off the mortgage and give it away if it is worthless, sell it for what it is worth, or learn to use it and enjoy it

If you stop making payments, they have a number of rights (which you would have to read your debt agreement to know). You may want to meet with an attorney to help you determine what the right options are for you and what the costs would be.

 

[Passepartout]

Where've you been? You have owned the TS for 5 years and this is your first TUG post. You have missied out on tons of great information on using what you own.

But I digress. If you join TUG ($15) you can list your ownership for sale in the Marketplace. Or for free you can list it in the Bargain Deals subforum in Buying/selling forum.

There are legitimate brokers who are TUG members who will list it for you.

Frankly HGVC has value- not as much as what was paid for it initially, but it's certainly not worth allowing to go into foreclosure, wrecking credit scores and such. Sure, it takes more effort than doing nothing, but the 'work' is hardly onerous and might put some 'walking around' cash in your pockets.

You're right about steering clear of upfront fee timeshare exit companies. We haven't found even one that isn't a scam.

Best wishes, and don't be a stranger.

Jim

P.S. Oops, I had missed that there is an outstanding mortgage. Bottom line: It'll have to be paid off in order to sell or give it away. HGVC won't even process a transfer with an outstanding mortgage. Pay it off first. Then proceed.

 

[SteelerGal]

Pay off the loan using a personal loan and then sell it.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Can you let us know what you own in LV?

Property?
Season?
How many points?
How large is your mortgage remaining?

Based on this we can tell you what it is worth. If you want to dispose of this without a potential hit to your credit you will need to pay off the mortgage. Depending on the value you can do as @SteelerGal suggested and pay the mortgage off using a personal loan. Sell the unit and use the proceeds to pay off all or part of your personal loan. However, without knowing what property and the size of the mortgage, it's difficult to advise you.

Vegas properties have some value or can be given away if there is no mortgage and the MF are in good standing. HGVC will deed it back too at that point.

 

[Riv44]

Where've you been? You have owned the TS for 5 years and this is your first TUG post. You have missied out on tons of great information on using what you own.

But I digress. If you join TUG ($15) you can list your ownership for sale in the Marketplace. Or for free you can list it in the Bargain Deals subforum in Buying/selling forum.

There are legitimate brokers who are TUG members who will list it for you.

Frankly HGVC has value- not as much as what was paid for it initially, but it's certainly not worth allowing to go into foreclosure, wrecking credit scores and such. Sure, it takes more effort than doing nothing, but the 'work' is hardly onerous and might put some 'walking around' cash in your pockets.

You're right about steering clear of upfront fee timeshare exit companies. We haven't found even one that isn't a scam.

Best wishes, and don't be a stranger.

Jim

P.S. Oops, I had missed that there is an outstanding mortgage. Bottom line: It'll have to be paid off in order to sell or give it away. HGVC won't even process a transfer with an outstanding mortgage. Pay it off first. Then proceed.

Hi Jim,
Didn't know this group existed until i started doing some research! I don't think my wife is interested in paying it off, so the whole foreclose thing is on the top of the list.

 

[Riv44]

Can you let us know what you own in LV?

Property?
Season?
How many points?
How large is your mortgage remaining?

Based on this we can tell you what it is worth. If you want to dispose of this without a potential hit to your credit you will need to pay off the mortgage. Depending on the value you can do as @SteelerGal suggested and pay the mortgage off using a personal loan. Sell the unit and use the proceeds to pay off all or part of your personal loan. However, without knowing what property and the size of the mortgage, it's difficult to advise you.

Vegas properties have some value or can be given away if there is no mortgage and the MF are in good standing. HGVC will deed it back too at that point.

Property is the Elara in Las Vegas, 5000 points/year, remaining mortgage is 22K.

 

[Passepartout]

Hi Jim,
Didn't know this group existed until i started doing some research! I don't think my wife is interested in paying it off, so the whole foreclose thing is on the top of the list.

You (she) REALLY needs to consult with a legal/financial specialist in your area to find the consequences of this. DO NOT rely on anything you read on the internet. Everyone- including TUGgers- though we all may have the best intentions, have no insight into your personal situation. This from my wife who is a nearly 40 year practicing family law, elder and estate planning and bankruptcy attorney.

Jim

 

[CalGalTraveler]

That's a nice property with a low maintenance fee. You should call some brokers that TUG recommends to see what it's worth but I guess it may be worth $3 - 6k resale. So definitely has value. However $16 - 19k net on the mortgage is still a lot of money to owe on this property. Until that is paid off you cannot sell or deed it back.

To offset this cost, another option is to rent out the unit. Book your home week during a convention (e.g. CES in January) or future Raider game to see if you can cover all or most of your MF and mortgage. If a rental can cover the cost of the annual mortgage and MF (or most of it) then you can give it away/sell it when it is paid off. A bit of work to rent but a lot less painful than paying cash outright or ruining your credit.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Hmm...it seems that the developers could help people with mortgages who are trying to exit by offering a rental program to promote the property via Hilton.com and helping to rent out the unit to pay against the mortgage. Probably a lot less expensive to operate than legal foreclosure but maybe they have this down to an art since they own the mortgages and do better foreclosing and renting inventory themselves until they resell it.

 

[Passepartout]

Hmm...it seems that the developers could help people with mortgages who are trying to exit by offering a rental program to promote the property via Hilton.com and helping to rent out the unit to pay against the mortgage. Probably a lot less expensive to operate than legal foreclosure but maybe they have this down to an art since they own the mortgages and do better foreclosing and renting inventory themselves until they resell it.

The problem with this is that they don't want to be in the rental business anyway. That's why they divide up the 'ownerships' and sell them to the likes of us timeshare owners. If they wanted to run a rental business, they don't need us. But since they want TS owners to pay them $10's of thousands for building the resort- then charge exorbitant annual MFs (for a fun exercise, multiply YOUR MF by the 50 weeks they hope to get). You'll see that WE are their product.

Jim

 

[alwysonvac]

The following articles are from the TUG Advice Page:

• WHAT HAPPENS IF I STOP PAYING FOR MY TIMESHARE? - https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/stop_paying_for_timeshare.html
• TIMESHARE SCAMS AND COMMON LIES - https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare_scams_revealed.html

Here’s what has been reported / shared.

Walked away from HGVC (June 2019) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/walked-away-from-hgvc.291724/
Giving up Hilton TS. They sent a Warranty Deed to avoid foreclosure. Legit????????? (2016 thread) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...rranty-deed-to-avoid-foreclosure-legit.240543
How to cancel Hilton contract after owning for couple of years (2017) - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ract-after-owning-for-couple-of-years.259439/

 

[terces]

There are two different developer/seller groups at the Elara, and one is named Westgate and the other HGVC. If that TS is one of the Westgate in Elara than it is really worth nothing. This is a bit tricky to figure out, others here may be able to help if you post some of the documents. In particular this was identified on an Estoppel, that was shown on another thread recently. This is really important to know, because on one hand it is completely worthless and on the other hand there may be a few thousand dollars worth of value

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Westgate is a non-issue in this situation because the OP purchased directly from Hilton with a mortgage. Hilton does not resell Westgate units. The 5000 HGVC points value is the other clue that it's legit HGVC.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The problem with this is that they don't want to be in the rental business anyway. That's why they divide up the 'ownerships' and sell them to the likes of us timeshare owners. If they wanted to run a rental business, they don't need us. But since they want TS owners to pay them $10's of thousands for building the resort- then charge exorbitant annual MFs (for a fun exercise, multiply YOUR MF by the 50 weeks they hope to get). You'll see that WE are their product.

Jim

Good point. I recently looked up the annual MF for the Honua Kai [corrected name] condos on Maui next to Westin Nanea. Although the condo units are pricey in the low millions, the ANNUAL MF is the same as a WEEK at WKORV/Nanea. We are the product!

 

[Tamaradarann]

Good point. I recently looked up the annual MF for the Honua Kona condos on Maui next to Westin Nanea. Although the condo units are pricey in the low millions, the ANNUAL MF is the same as a WEEK at WKORV/Nanea. We are the product!

Wait a minute. Let me get this straight the ANNUAL MAINTENANCE for the Honua Kona condo is the same as a weeks maintenance at the WKORV/Nanea or is it the same as a weeks rent at the WKORV/Nanea? Where did you look up the ANNUAL MAINTENANCE that you are comparing, usually condo maintenance is quoted as monthly.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Tamaradarann Here's a mid-level Honua Kai [corrected name] condo for sale at $2.275m. MF are halfway down the page at $2350.

https://search.emauirealestate.com/maui/5-383668/130-KAI-MALINA-PKWY-16C-Lahaina

Perhaps you are right. It doesn't actually state whether it's a month or year. But even if it's a month, that's 1/4 what the next door neighbors at the Westin Pay pay per month!

Honua Koa is pretty well maintained from what I could see but perhaps some amenities are not resort-like. For example, instead of a pool attendant handing out towels they had a vending machine where you swiped your room key to dispense towels. But even so...those are pricey pool attendants!

 

[SmithOp]

Are you talking about Honua Kai? Its confusing when you call it Koa or Kona. The fees are per month.

My wife’s cousin works in the rental office there, her husband is a realtor, Walt and Barb Kubiak. They live just up the hill from the property.

https://www.mauiwestside.com/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@SmithOp Oops! LoL yes I meant Honua Kai. Will edit and correct my posts. Friday brain...

 

[JIMinNC]

@Tamaradarann Here's a mid-level Honua Kai [corrected name] condo for sale at $2.275m. MF are halfway down the page at $2350.

https://search.emauirealestate.com/maui/5-383668/130-KAI-MALINA-PKWY-16C-Lahaina

Perhaps you are right. It doesn't actually state whether it's a month or year. But even if it's a month, that's 1/4 what the next door neighbors at the Westin Pay pay per month!

Honua Koa is pretty well maintained from what I could see but perhaps some amenities are not resort-like. For example, instead of a pool attendant handing out towels they had a vending machine where you swiped your room key to dispense towels. But even so...those are pricey pool attendants!

We are looking at condos in Hilton Head (much cheaper ones though!), and all regime/maintenance fees are quoted as monthly on the MLS. So that is almost certainly $2350 per month.

But remember, a whole ownership condo like Honua Kai doesn't have housekeeping expense in the HOA, usually no or limited activities staff, don't have to pay their share of Owner Services expense, have less front desk and overall administration expense (i.e. fewer employees to manage), full ownership owners pay their own property taxes, and electricity and other utilities is usually billed to individual metered units. Whole ownership condo owners also own their own furniture, but at a timeshare it's owned by the HOA, so the timeshare has to include reserves for that replacement, whereas a whole ownership property like Honua Kai does not. Most timeshares have more elaborate pools and grounds and more expansive common areas.

Down the beach from Honua Kai at Marriott’s Maui Ocean Club, the total annual expense is about $58 million. But about $31 million of that is the Vacation Owners Association (VOA), which is the expenses directly related to the timeshare operation. I would think almost none of that would be comparable to the Honua Kai HOA. The annual contribution to reserves are $7 million, and there is another $20 million for the Association of Apartment Owners (AOAO) for common area, buildings, etc. I would expect the AOAO and some portion of the reserve fee would be what is most comparable to the Honua Kai fee, but even there, the much larger common areas and facilities probably drives those fees much higher at MOC than they would be at a whole ownership property like Honua Kai.

So the total numbers are not at all comparable.

 

[terces]

Popping in an out of a resort using a well bought time share vs owning a condo are two completely different animals. Resorts cost tons of money to run and when you are there for a week or two or three the goods ones are well worth it. Owning a recreation condo with limited amenities and costs that run year round is something that I have done, and I find the HGVC timeshare economics and experience to be more favourable in comparison.

 

[pianodinosaur]

My wife bought in to Elara in LV in 2014, lots of things have changed in our lives and now she wants to get out of this. HGVC won't buy it back, she looked into a few of those "exit" companies,(too many red flags, high costs for her ending up having to do all the work, etc) and in reading a number of threads, lots of folks say to stop payments. Wondering if anyone has done this, what did HGVD do, assuming things went into foreclosure. She understands that she will take a hit on her credit, but wondering what if any legal issues we will be faced with.
She is current with mortgage (still owes a balance) and MF.
Any advice or guidance welcomed! Thanks in advance.

Welcome to TUG. I purchased directly from HGVC prior to learning about TUG and the resale market. If it is any consolation, HGVC is a very flexible and relatively easy system to master. Your best option may be to use your timeshare and enjoy it. The resale market will still be there if you enjoy timesharing and want to purchase more. We just booked the vacation of our lifetime via HGVC. Next year we will spend five nights at the Rome Cavellieri Resort followed by a nine day Greek Island cruise all via HGVC. We would not be traveling like this were it not for our HGVC membership. I suggest you pay off the balance on the mortgage ASAP, get a HHONORS credit card, stop kicking yourself, and enjoy life a little bit more. I have experience kicking myself and it hurts.