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Should Renter Bear Risk of Closure Due to Hurricane

arch53

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My wife and I typically rent timeshares for our March vacations. This year in renting one of the weeks I have run into something that I have never before encountered and I had thought I would seek advice of the collective wisdom of this group which I know has both renters and tenants in it. When I received the rental agreement for a unit we had decided to rent I inserted a provision, that stated if the unit was not available because of hurricane damage or other unforeseen event, the renter would return all payments. The renter has objected to this provision and suggested that I buy travel insurance. The renter has made a very nominal reduction in rent to allow for my purchasing travel insurance. The nominal reduction does not reflect the actual premium for the travel insurance (it is a good bit more) and I am very leary of travel insurance policies because of the difficulty collecting on those policies.

My view has been a pretty simplistic one: I pay for a week of accommodations and if the renter cannot provide the accommodations for some reason (such as hurricane damage) then the renter should return my rent payments. I have not had disagreement on this issue before in renting units.

Am I off base here (the issue had seemed somewhat obvious to me)? If the collective wisdom of this Board is that I am off base then I will at least think about bearing the risk for this one rental ( I would be more comfortable if we were at the end of October), although I may still just move on to a different rental.

Thanks.
 
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mcsteve

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I believe you have 6 of one and half dozen of another. I rent remote cabins for fishing several times a year and some provide cancellation clauses due to weather (spring ice in the north and November storms can be unpredictable) and others don't. It really comes down to the renter and what they feel is fair for their business. After all, renting is a business if only a hobby one for some. My opinion has always been that, if I don't have the right to cancel, I will look for more reasonable terms. If I have the right to cancel, I expect to pay a premium as the renter is assuming the risk.

I have been caught in a variety of travel cancellations (airlines, hotels, etc) due to weather when I was traveling regularly for business. Very seldom was the cancellation clause waved simply due to bad weather (hurricane or otherwise) unless I cancelled within the normal window of opportunity which was usually 24 or 48 hours for most accommodations. Your rental will be much different as you are paying up front but the renter will not likely be able to rent the unit to others due to the weather if you cannot attend.

IMHO, looking for an alternative that does provide you with the terms you desire would likely be much easier than trying to convince them to change their policy.
 

Grammarhero

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I have rented from tuggers twice. I went to Hilton Head the week before the Hurricane. I think the renter is being somewhat, but not totally, reasonable. Maybe ask the renter if he is willing to bear the full cost of travel insurance.

If not, move onto another rental.
 

Grammarhero

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You are not totally off base, thought you may be a little bit.
 

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I don't think some nebulous term like "hurricane damage" would do it for me. Way too open to abuse. "We got scared and didn't show up, so you owe money back cuz we saw something on tv that the area was damaged by hurricane...." Defining "damage" is the sticking point while a traveller could not show up for other reasons and try to blame some other event that did not actually prevent their stay. Heavy rain that doesn't wash anything away is not hurricane damage. Power outage is iffy, I'd tell them to get a hotel, I'd reimburse up to 100/night in case power back next day or something. Trees down somewhere else preventing access to the place? That's on the traveller but renter should be notified of the issue and given a chance to remedy.

I would not take risk of interpretation. I would say the standard is habitability of the actual unit and ability to get to it from a main road.

Yes, get trip insurance, the owner has no horse in that race, it is your obligation as a traveller. Covers more than the place you're staying. If you check out early cuz you cooked yourself food poisoning, that is not the owner's problem, but your trip insurance can help you several ways. Hedge your risk with a product designed with that exact scenario vs insist small business owner take it in the gut. They have to call their insurance broker if the place is not habitable, but likely screwed in the event of power outage or trees down.
 

klpca

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Pre timeshare we rented condos in Hawaii through VRBO. It was always stated that once we were a certain time close to the stay (usually 60 days) any cancellation for any reason was on us, and that we needed to get travel insurance. So I don't think that it's a timeshare thing, and personally I think that it's reasonable. Traveling during hurricane season is always a gamble. I think that you would want to have travel insurance anyway, for other situations like having to leave early and change your flights, for example. If you don't like the renters terms, then just find someone who has a cancellation policy that you are more comfortable with.
 

bluehende

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Not out of line at all. Also the landlord is not out of line with his policies. If you are not comfortable taking on the risk go somewhere else. I would hope that if after you lose the lottery and cannot use the rental the landlord would reimburse if he gets some compensation from the resort after the fact. It is tough to handicap that outcome.
 

arch53

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Pre timeshare we rented condos in Hawaii through VRBO. It was always stated that once we were a certain time close to the stay (usually 60 days) any cancellation for any reason was on us, and that we needed to get travel insurance. So I don't think that it's a timeshare thing, and personally I think that it's reasonable. Traveling during hurricane season is always a gamble. I think that you would want to have travel insurance anyway, for other situations like having to leave early and change your flights, for example. If you don't like the renters terms, then just find someone who has a cancellation policy that you are more comfortable with.


The difference is that I am not cancelling. The renter is, in effect, cancelling, because I am ready, willing and able to occupy the unit I have paid for. However, because of hurricane damage, the renter cannot provide the accommodations . Consequently, I will need to find and pay for other accommodations; thus paying twice for that week.
 

klpca

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I just realized that I misread your query. For a March rental, I think that there is so much time between hurricane season and March that the renter has ample time to repair or cancel. Asking you to bear the brunt of the hurricane uncertainty wouldn't sit well with me and I would definitely move on to another renter
 

controller1

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The difference is that I am not cancelling. The renter is, in effect, cancelling, because I am ready, willing and able to occupy the unit I have paid for. However, because of hurricane damage, the renter cannot provide the accommodations . Consequently, I will need to find and pay for other accommodations; thus paying twice for that week.

So are you saying the hurricane has already damaged the unit? If so, then I'm not sure you will be able to purchase travel insurance for a pre-existing condition and if that's the case you need to move on.
 

heathpack

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Yes you are off base.

A timeshare rental is different from a hotel. It’s owned by an individual who will not get reimbursed if the unit becomes unavailable due to a weather-related “act of God”. The person renting you the timeshare unit is simply passing the same risk on to you that he/she also faces.

I too would absolutely tell you to get rental insurance to protect yourself if you were concerned. But I would not be willing to assume that risk for you. If you didn’t like it, you’d be welcome to rent from someone else. I would not discuss the matter further.

I typically price my rentals significantly lower than available hotel rentals for my dates. I do this because I understand the rentee is assuming risk. In return, they get a bargain and more space.

To me, it sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.
 

arch53

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Yes you are off base.

A timeshare rental is different from a hotel. It’s owned by an individual who will not get reimbursed if the unit becomes unavailable due to a weather-related “act of God”. The person renting you the timeshare unit is simply passing the same risk on to you that he/she also faces.

I too would absolutely tell you to get rental insurance to protect yourself if you were concerned. But I would not be willing to assume that risk for you. If you didn’t like it, you’d be welcome to rent from someone else. I would not discuss the matter further.

I typically price my rentals significantly lower than available hotel rentals for my dates. I do this because I understand the rentee is assuming risk. In return, they get a bargain and more space.

To me, it sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

I appreciate your perspective but I am not sure what "cake" I would be getting. In the event that the resort has closed because of damage from a natural event such as a hurricane, I would have paid for a unit that I would not be able to occupy and would have to pay again for a substitute and different unit somewhere else. It seems that the owner is out, at most, the maintenance fee, which is considerably less than the rental price. But as they say: differences in opinions are "what makes horse races." Travel insurance premiums are quite high; I may decide to bear the risk but the "cake"part I don't get.
 

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Timely question...

My quick answer... either purchase travel insurance (especially since they've offered to discount the rental to offset the cost of the insurance) or pass on this opportunity. It really depends on whether you're happy with the rental price, and whether you'll be able to get a better deal elsewhere.

My not-so-quick story ... I own a US East coast week (OBX) that usually begins Labor Day wkd, which, lately, has been prime hurricane time. I don't use it these days (and should probably just unload it) because the grandkid that accompanies us is now in school, so the vacation week would be cut short. Anyway... last year my renters missed a hurricane by a week... so when they wanted to rent this year, they asked what happens if there's a hurricane. I wouldn't say this is standard practice... but I told them if the resort closes completely and they're not able to check in at all during the week - which I doubt would happen - I would provide a full refund. I also encouraged them to get travel insurance (which they did.) Well the resort was evacuated 4 days into their vacation. They didn't ask for anything from me and I wasn't obligated to provide anything... but because they were repeat renters AND because I had some Wyndham points due to expire at the end of the year, I offered to comp them a few days in Williamsburg, VA. They accepted and really enjoyed Williamsburg.

I'm guessing they'll reach out again next year...for the OBX rental, or maybe even Williamsburg.

For me it was all about customer service.
 

heathpack

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Wait, you’re worried that a hurricane this season will render the unit unfit for occupation next March?

If you’re worried about that, then just wait until hurricane season is over before securing a rental.

If you’re worried about a hurricane threatening the actual week of your March rental, that risk is extremely low, but still I’d tell you to get rental insurance and I would not personally assume that risk for you.

Its a little strange to me that you’d insert a clause stating that you’d want your money back if the timeshare is damaged specifically by a hurricane, but for no other reasons. What about fire, flood, hail, vermin infestation, etc?

For me as a timeshare owner, I’d have to go back to my agreements with Hyatt, Marriott, Disney, Vistana. But I’m pretty sure their official line is if I’m denied access due to some unforeseen circumstance, I still pay my MF and I don’t get a prorated portion of my initial purchase price back. So I’d pass whatever terms I’m subject to along to the person I’m renting to. If Hyatt, Marriott, Disney or Vistana made me some kind of accommodation, I’d pass that on to the person I rented to and I’d be willing to act diligently with the management company on my rentee’s behalf. But if I ultimately that went nowhere, I’m not sure how responsible I would feel. Again, that’s why I’m renting my unit out for 50% or less of what Hyatt (or whoever) rents for.
 
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heathpack

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I appreciate your perspective but I am not sure what "cake" I would be getting. In the event that the resort has closed because of damage from a natural event such as a hurricane, I would have paid for a unit that I would not be able to occupy and would have to pay again for a substitute and different unit somewhere else. It seems that the owner is out, at most, the maintenance fee, which is considerably less than the rental price. But as they say: differences in opinions are "what makes horse races." Travel insurance premiums are quite high; I may decide to bear the risk but the "cake"part I don't get.

You want to rent a timeshare unit from a private individual that has the same kind of guarantees that a hotel chain would rent to you for, but at half the price.

So: you want the inexpensive price compared to renting directly from a hotel chain (having your cake) and also the same flexibility/guarantees you’d get from paying that premium (eating it too).

Why not just go to Marriott.com for example and rent directly from them? Then you get that guarantee that you seek. No problemo.
 

DeniseM

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I tell renters that in case of a weather emergency, or something similar, I will reimburse them with whatever compensation the resort will provide. Generally, that is a reschedule, not a refund. I also tell them in writing that there are no cancellations and they should buy travel insurance - they have to initial that on the rental agreement. If a rental guest is not comfortable with my policy, I recommend that they rent directly from the management company - for twice the price.

IMNSHO, expecting to pay the much lower price of renting from an owner, and also expecting to receive the benefits of renting from the timeshare management company is not reasonable. YMMV
 

Bucky

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I look at a rentals the same as an exchange. If I told II I wouldn’t pay for travel insurance they should, when they finished laughing they would probably say no thanks. If you are looking to protect YOUR vacation, then do so. I wouldn’t expect the owner to do it.
 

GrayFal

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I tell renters that in case of a weather emergency, or something similar, I will reimburse them with whatever compensation the resort will provide. Generally, that is a reschedule, not a refund. I also tell them in writing that there are no cancellations and they should buy travel insurance - they have to initial that on the rental agreement. If a rental guest is not comfortable with my policy, I recommend that they rent directly from the management company - for twice the price.

IMNSHO, expecting to pay the much lower price of renting from an owner, and also expecting to receive the benefits of renting from the timeshare management company is not reasonable. YMMV
I do exactly as Denise does in terms of my rental contract. No refund and suggest travel insurance with renter initialing that paragraph.

That said I rented my Westin St John Presidents week unit in 2018. Hurricane Irma/Maria hit in Sept 2017. I contacted my renters and they had NOT taken insurance. They did get refunds of the airfare. We worked it out that we pushed the rental to Presidents’ Day 2019 and this time they did take travel insurance. Vistana did return my SO for the 2018 usage but I would not have been able to get them something comparable on such short notice.

Both parties were happy.

So if you want to rent for half what the resort would charge you then yes, buy your own insurance.
 

arch53

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Thanks everyone. I will look at the insurance option closer. On the similarity to an exchange, I too thought the two circumstances had similarities. From my one experience with II on this issue, in a past exchange with II when the resort I was exchanging into closed a significant part of the resort for some repair issues and this impacted my exchange, II refunded my exchange fee and gave me back the ability to get another exchange. This may have been a "one off" situation and I never went back into II's rules to see what II's obligation was under its rules.

In any event, I appreciate everyone's response and perspective.
 

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I too would absolutely tell you to get rental insurance to protect yourself if you were concerned. But I would not be willing to assume that risk for you. If you didn’t like it, you’d be welcome to rent from someone else. I would not discuss the matter further.

Agree. Someone has to assume the risk. The price one pays and the rental agreement should reflect who it is....

George
 

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My wife and son were at a resort in Orlando when the latest hurricane was coming through
They stayed until like Sunday AM since the parks were pretty much empty and they were able to hit all the new Star Wars stuff with minimal wait times

They did leave a few days early and
the resort gave us back our points since many were told to evacuate ( they may actually have an insurance for things like this?? )
So if a hurricane actually did force a resort to evacuate and close. I’d assume most would comp a new week
 

heathpack

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Thanks everyone. I will look at the insurance option closer. On the similarity to an exchange, I too thought the two circumstances had similarities. From my one experience with II on this issue, in a past exchange with II when the resort I was exchanging into closed a significant part of the resort for some repair issues and this impacted my exchange, II refunded my exchange fee and gave me back the ability to get another exchange. This may have been a "one off" situation and I never went back into II's rules to see what II's obligation was under its rules.

In any event, I appreciate everyone's response and perspective.

Personally I think the comparison to an exchange company is not a good one.

You pay membership fees to an exchange company, plus an exchange fee, plus the value of your deposit (from which they already collected a membership fee and an exchange fee from the exchanger on the other end of the transaction) and the exchange company does not have the carrying costs of owning the units. Plus they have access to way more units than a private person renting timeshares has, including access to developer deposits made for marketing purposes.

So I’d expect an exchange company to do a little more for you, because they have more options and ways to work with you.
 

Makai Guy

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So I’d expect an exchange company to do a little more for you, because they have more options and ways to work with you.
... and they are making a LOT more money off the transaction.
 

Quilter

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I do exactly as Denise does in terms of my rental contract. No refund and suggest travel insurance with renter initialing that paragraph.

That said I rented my Westin St John Presidents week unit in 2018. Hurricane Irma/Maria hit in Sept 2017. I contacted my renters and they had NOT taken insurance. They did get refunds of the airfare. We worked it out that we pushed the rental to Presidents’ Day 2019 and this time they did take travel insurance. Vistana did return my SO for the 2018 usage but I would not have been able to get them something comparable on such short notice.

Both parties were happy.

So if you want to rent for half what the resort would charge you then yes, buy your own insurance.

This is a very nice way for an owner to treat their renter. However, looking at it further, I would say time is money.

The owner has invested a significant amount of time and money to secure a high demand week. The OP is talking about a March week and the week may possibly be high demand if they already wanted to get their vacation reserved. The owner has bought the timeshare week, paid the m/f's and gotten on the phone/computer in time to reserve the week. That's an investment. The rental should recoup to the owner the investment of time and $. Competition on Redweek can be stiff with owner's undercutting each other, therefore, the margin of profit is not always what it may seem, especially if the renter takes up lots of time with multiple emails and phone calls. I rent weeks at prices competitive with other Redweek ads. It's a hobby business that recovers m/f's and helps fund our personal vacation time. It's rate of return is not a high $/hr. when all investment of time and $ is considered. There's a high level of responsibility when you hold the reservations for others who are expecting a great travel experience, even at budget prices.

I had a clause in my rental contract that if there was a problem with the week like weather or family emergency the renter would assume the same risks I, as the owner, assumes. There's lots of ways this could go so I took out the clause to eliminate the the possibility of trouble. It hasn't come up yet with my rentals but if it does I'll have to work with my renter on an individual basis like GrayFal did.

In the above scenario, since the owner is accommodating the renter best they can, I would not think it unfair for the owner to charge a change fee because of the extra time involved. The renter did not get travel insurance and took a gamble that their discounted trip would take place with no issues. (Who needs a hurricane? I'm thinking of my friend who fell off the ladder and broke his arm right before a vacation). I don't know how much the insurance would have been on GrayFal's week. If the renter had purchased the travel insurance they wouldn't have had to go back to GrayFal for reconsideration. Time and trouble would have been between renter and the insurance company. However, they didn't buy the insurance and time and trouble fell on GrayFal. I suspect dealing with GrayFal was much easier than dealing with a trip insurance company.

GrayFal, can you tell me what "SO" stands for?

Can someone tell me a good trip insurance to recommend to my renters?
 
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