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Should Renter Bear Risk of Closure Due to Hurricane

hurnik

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The question doesn't seem to be if the resort is closed because of a hurricane during hurricane season but rather what happens if damage is so severe that the resort is closed for months after a hurricane and your renter is scheduled to checkin when it is closed. In this case, I don't think you really have any choice but to provide a refund. If you can't fulfil the terms of your contract, even if no fault of your own, can you really charge your renter anything for that. If you withhold reimbursement, would that hold up in court?

Apparently Marriott can (if I interpreted a previous posting correctly). Don't know about other timeshare companies, but I'm fairly certain other timeshares also didn't reimburse their owners for lack of us, but the majority did.
 

tschwa2

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Apparently Marriott can (if I interpreted a previous posting correctly). Don't know about other timeshare companies, but I'm fairly certain other timeshares also didn't reimburse their owners for lack of us, but the majority did.
But I think you have a much more complicated relationship as a deeded "owner" than as a renter. If you have a long detailed contract with your renter conferring upon them the rights and responsibilities of an owner, you might be able to get away with taking money and not delivering a viable stay.
 

echino

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When I rent out my weeks, my contract is for a reservation. If the resort does not honor the reservation for any reason beyond my control, such as hurricane etc, then this is between the renter and the resort. This is what travel insurance is for.
 

Saintsfanfl

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When I rent out my weeks, my contract is for a reservation. If the resort does not honor the reservation for any reason beyond my control, such as hurricane etc, then this is between the renter and the resort. This is what travel insurance is for.

I agree with this, although I personally would have a hard time playing too hard of ball with a renter because it is my nature. Renting timeshares from owners is cheaper because you generally pay up front and do not have the ability to make changes or cancel. Many rentals are for even less than maintenance fees.
 

Quilter

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I thought a lot about this thread today. I've been such a negative Nelly with references to the unexpected other than hurricanes.

Beautiful day today here in Plymouth. Blue skies, no clouds, 70's. Took bike ride towards the library. I only made it to Panera where they gave me 2 ice bags for my legs. My front tire got caught where pavement was uneven.

I am sooooo glad I'm not flying to St. John or anywhere else tomorrow. The unexpected happens so fast.

Trip insurance takes care of so much more than possible hurricane damage.
 

geist1223

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I am sorry I am of the opinion that if you can not provide what was contracted for you are in default.
 

bocamike

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If I rent one of my units, and the resort closes due to hurricane or any other reason I would refund the rental amount.
Mike
 

AJCts411

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I state that (my responsibility) is limited to that any relief or consideration given by the resort...meaning what ever the resort does, renter gets. When the hurricane hit (Irma) the resort closed and Hyatt, since it was closed, canceled the reservation, and returned the points. Option given for the renter, another week or refund. (since I had the points). I not sure if I understand this but if the resort was closed due to hurricane, how could they just say tuff luck, get insurance? The resort could not provide the service so they should refund (points). The financial hit goes to the resort, and maybe on to the resorts insurance...they do have insurance don't they? (sarcasm) To be clear, I mean just for when the resort closes, can not provide the service...for any number of reasons, weather, fire, earthquake, etc...that liability/risk is on the resort. So refunds are due all the way down the line.
 

PigsDad

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The financial hit goes to the resort, and maybe on to the resorts insurance...they do have insurance don't they? (sarcasm)
It really depends on the level of insurance the resort carries. Of course they have coverage for physical damages, but I know there are many that do not carry insurance for loss of use for the owners. In those cases, yes, the owners of the weeks that were affected by a shutdown were simply out of luck (but they still owed their MF for the year). In a points system instead of fixed week, I'm sure they tend to cover those situations and return points, since there is no way of knowing who "owns" the weeks when the shutdown occurred.

Kurt
 

tschwa2

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I state that (my responsibility) is limited to that any relief or consideration given by the resort...meaning what ever the resort does, renter gets. When the hurricane hit (Irma) the resort closed and Hyatt, since it was closed, canceled the reservation, and returned the points. Option given for the renter, another week or refund. (since I had the points). I not sure if I understand this but if the resort was closed due to hurricane, how could they just say tuff luck, get insurance? The resort could not provide the service so they should refund (points). The financial hit goes to the resort, and maybe on to the resorts insurance...they do have insurance don't they? (sarcasm) To be clear, I mean just for when the resort closes, can not provide the service...for any number of reasons, weather, fire, earthquake, etc...that liability/risk is on the resort. So refunds are due all the way down the line.
Most but not all points resorts give you your points back although they may have a limited use time remaining or they may extend the expiration. Most deeded weeks say tough and if they have excess off season weeks available usually in the same calendar year they may allow owners to use those. How do they get away with that? Your an owner you aren't contracting with them to give you your time. The time is yours. The management company is managing your resort. If a huricanne hits your house and with my insurance if the damage is due to wind it is covered but if the damage is due to rain or flooding it isn't covered. It's my house, who owes me my time back at my own house when we had to evacuate or leave while they are fixing it. If on the other hand I rent out my house whether I have a management company or not, I think I have the responsibility to provide comparable lodging or a refund.
 

heathpack

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This thread has been very eye opening, bringing up topics that I never considered previously.

I think I will add a clause to my rental contracts something to the effect of: “You are renting access to my timeshare and as such, you are subject to the same risks and constraints that I am as an owner. In the event the unit you have rented becomes unavailable, I will offer you at no additional cost the same remedy the management company offers me, which may include rebooking to a different date/unit or no remedy at all or some remedy in between. If that is unacceptable to you, I strongly suggest travel insurance to cover your entire rental amount. Alternatively, for an additional rental fee of $XXX, I agree to refund $YYY if the resort should for any reason be closed and unable to provide you any accommodation.”

This will allow me to offer a competitive rental price but perhaps give some assurance to the people who worry about stuff like this.

I’d have to work on my wording but that will be the gist.
 

Saintsfanfl

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I am sorry I am of the opinion that if you can not provide what was contracted for you are in default.

I probably would too, but I can totally understand others that have agreements where an act of God does not provide a refund. We don't get a refund of maintenance fees if the resort has to close. Either way is fine as long as it is spelled out in the agreement. If it doesn't say anything then by default a refund would be due if the resort is closed.

These days I use quite a bit of Redweek verification with payments for shorter term notice and weeks during the first few months of the year. The Redweek rental agreement provides a full refund if the the resort is closed or the unit is not habitable.
 

dioxide45

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When I rent out my weeks, my contract is for a reservation. If the resort does not honor the reservation for any reason beyond my control, such as hurricane etc, then this is between the renter and the resort. This is what travel insurance is for.
The problem is that the contract is between you and the renter. To use this another example, if you owned a home and a hurricane hit it and your renter that is occupying it three weeks after the hurricane couldn't go because the home is uninhabitable, could you say tough luck? You would be hard pressed not to provide a refund. This is no different than a deeded timeshare ownership that you are renting.

In your case you are renting a reservation, what happens when that reservation no longer exists because it was cancelled by the management company or HOA? You no longer have a reservation to rent.
 

echino

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The problem is that the contract is between you and the renter. To use this another example, if you owned a home and a hurricane hit it and your renter that is occupying it three weeks after the hurricane couldn't go because the home is uninhabitable, could you say tough luck? You would be hard pressed not to provide a refund. This is no different than a deeded timeshare ownership that you are renting.

In your case you are renting a reservation, what happens when that reservation no longer exists because it was cancelled by the management company or HOA? You no longer have a reservation to rent.

True!

However, the owner cannot get protection against such events. If the resort is closed due to a hurricane, and the owner refunds the money to the renter, but the resort does not do anything for the owner, then the owner is out the maintenance fee and foregone profit. There is no protection. The renter, on the other hand, has protection available for such cases by buying insurance. So when I rent out my weeks, I make clear that there will be no refund in such cases and the renter has a choice to buy insurance. When the renter agrees to rent under these terms, then the owner is not liable.
 

bluehende

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True!

However, the owner cannot get protection against such events. If the resort is closed due to a hurricane, and the owner refunds the money to the renter, but the resort does not do anything for the owner, then the owner is out the maintenance fee and foregone profit. There is no protection. The renter, on the other hand, has protection available for such cases by buying insurance. So when I rent out my weeks, I make clear that there will be no refund in such cases and the renter has a choice to buy insurance. When the renter agrees to rent under these terms, then the owner is not liable.

Can an owner not get travel insurance also. I haven't looked into it, but would be surprised if the major players in that market would not cover it.
 

echino

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Marriott sells insurance, but to US owners only. I am in Canada. And I don't think that insurance covers rentals, only personal use. I don't think any insurance covers rentals.
 

hurnik

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Can an owner not get travel insurance also. I haven't looked into it, but would be surprised if the major players in that market would not cover it.

Unlikely. I've yet to see a "trip insurance" that'll cover MF and such (points) for timeshares.
There *used* to be one offered by TravelGuard that Hilton used to offer that specifically would reimburse you for your MF only. However, it's no longer offered by Hilton at all and when it was, you couldn't get it in some states (NY being one of them, thank you NY).

Hilton offers a "points protection" now that will return the points, but you're out the cost of the Points Protection, the booking fee, and the Guest cert fee. Plus, if it's close to the end of the year, you'll have to pay the extra fee to save the points into next year (possibly). So probably around $200-$350 that the owner is "out".
 

kenojg

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My wife and I typically rent timeshares for our March vacations. This year in renting one of the weeks I have run into something that I have never before encountered and I had thought I would seek advice of the collective wisdom of this group which I know has both renters and tenants in it. When I received the rental agreement for a unit we had decided to rent I inserted a provision, that stated if the unit was not available because of hurricane damage or other unforeseen event, the renter would return all payments. The renter has objected to this provision and suggested that I buy travel insurance. The renter has made a very nominal reduction in rent to allow for my purchasing travel insurance. The nominal reduction does not reflect the actual premium for the travel insurance (it is a good bit more) and I am very leary of travel insurance policies because of the difficulty collecting on those policies.

My view has been a pretty simplistic one: I pay for a week of accommodations and if the renter cannot provide the accommodations for some reason (such as hurricane damage) then the renter should return my rent payments. I have not had disagreement on this issue before in renting units.

Am I off base here (the issue had seemed somewhat obvious to me)? If the collective wisdom of this Board is that I am off base then I will at least think about bearing the risk for this one rental ( I would be more comfortable if we were at the end of October), although I may still just move on to a different rental.

Thanks.

So I would agree with you. If your aunt died or you couldn't get off work that's your problem and you need insurance for it. If a house or condo is unavailable because of plumbing or hurricane, that's their problem they need insurance for it. RCI seem to view it the same way. In that years ago I had banked weeks in RCI a year out, and when a hurricane made them unavailable they were reversed out of my account. Now in the last two years including this year ,hurricanes closed, and we had to evacuate The timeshares we were in and the one we were going to. In both cases RCI gave me back my points and gave me a credit for the exchange fee. The only problem is you have to use that credit in the short period of time. Plus you have to ask them for it they don't do it automatically. Good luck

Fall football and the outdoors, Woowe!
 

qwerty

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My wife and I typically rent timeshares for our March vacations. This year in renting one of the weeks I have run into something that I have never before encountered and I had thought I would seek advice of the collective wisdom of this group which I know has both renters and tenants in it. When I received the rental agreement for a unit we had decided to rent I inserted a provision, that stated if the unit was not available because of hurricane damage or other unforeseen event, the renter would return all payments. The renter has objected to this provision and suggested that I buy travel insurance. The renter has made a very nominal reduction in rent to allow for my purchasing travel insurance. The nominal reduction does not reflect the actual premium for the travel insurance (it is a good bit more) and I am very leary of travel insurance policies because of the difficulty collecting on those policies.

My view has been a pretty simplistic one: I pay for a week of accommodations and if the renter cannot provide the accommodations for some reason (such as hurricane damage) then the renter should return my rent payments. I have not had disagreement on this issue before in renting units.

Am I off base here (the issue had seemed somewhat obvious to me)? If the collective wisdom of this Board is that I am off base then I will at least think about bearing the risk for this one rental ( I would be more comfortable if we were at the end of October), although I may still just move on to a different rental.

Thanks.
If I offer a rental at a specific stay at a specific resort, there would be no cancellation refund.
I have prepaid my M/F & taxes and get a prescribed stay that I'm offering to rent.
I know how hard it is to actually rent out what I can't use and more than likely, the stay would likely not be rented to anyone else.
Saying all that, if for some reason, the resort is closed or not available for that stay, I obviously would be legally obligated to return the renter's payment.
I can't think of any other reason to return the payment.
All I'm offering is a specific stay at a specific resort.
Nothing else is guaranteed.
 

Happytravels

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We are down to three!!
Most but not all points resorts give you your points back although they may have a limited use time remaining or they may extend the expiration. Most deeded weeks say tough and if they have excess off season weeks available usually in the same calendar year they may allow owners to use those. How do they get away with that? Your an owner you aren't contracting with them to give you your time. The time is yours. The management company is managing your resort. If a huricanne hits your house and with my insurance if the damage is due to wind it is covered but if the damage is due to rain or flooding it isn't covered. It's my house, who owes me my time back at my own house when we had to evacuate or leave while they are fixing it. If on the other hand I rent out my house whether I have a management company or not, I think I have the responsibility to provide comparable lodging or a refund.

This happened to us back in 2008. We owned 4 weeks at a resort and lost all of them for 2 years. We asked if we could use some unsold weeks or off season weeks. They said no. But we still had to pay our mf's. We still own there but we love the place. But I think soon we will be downsizing again.
 

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I refunded 3 rentals when the hurricane hit St Thomas. They were Christmas weeks and a heavy hit $15,000. I felt it was the right thing to do. The resort was closed so I couldn’t provide the goods that they had purchased. Marriott provided us with 0 compensation as owners - no free weeks, points or anything else - unlike Westin and Hyatt who did. I do now put in my rental agreement that they will get a refund if the resort is closed, but as long as it’s open, no refund. It’s just the way I want to do business.

I use Allianz insurance in my travel business and it is excellent insurance. They pay their claims promptly for anyone who wants a reputable company.
 

chapjim

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Your legal obligation to return the renter's payment is not so obvious.
I refunded 3 rentals when the hurricane hit St Thomas. They were Christmas weeks and a heavy hit $15,000. I felt it was the right thing to do. The resort was closed so I couldn’t provide the goods that they had purchased. Marriott provided us with 0 compensation as owners - no free weeks, points or anything else - unlike Westin and Hyatt who did. I do now put in my rental agreement that they will get a refund if the resort is closed, but as long as it’s open, no refund. It’s just the way I want to do business.

I use Allianz insurance in my travel business and it is excellent insurance. They pay their claims promptly for anyone who wants a reputable company.

The resorts in St. Thomas were closed?
 

suzannesimon

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Your legal obligation to return the renter's payment is not so obvious.


The resorts in St. Thomas were closed?

This was 2017. Marriott Frenchman’s Cove was closed for about 6 months. The hotel next door still isn’t open.
 

hurnik

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I refunded 3 rentals when the hurricane hit St Thomas. They were Christmas weeks and a heavy hit $15,000. I felt it was the right thing to do. The resort was closed so I couldn’t provide the goods that they had purchased. Marriott provided us with 0 compensation as owners - no free weeks, points or anything else - unlike Westin and Hyatt who did. I do now put in my rental agreement that they will get a refund if the resort is closed, but as long as it’s open, no refund. It’s just the way I want to do business.

I use Allianz insurance in my travel business and it is excellent insurance. They pay their claims promptly for anyone who wants a reputable company.

Wow. Makes me glad I didn't buy Marriott. What a crappy way to treat its owners, IMO.
 
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