Long Term Care Insurance

[WinniWoman]

When I started in 1999, it was with Travelers. Later that was bought by MetLife, and now is Brighthouse. When we bought the policies, our daily coverage would be $105. Now, our daily coverage is up to $265 for each of us. Almost $16,000 a month for the both of us. I forget what the premium was when we bought these policies, but we're paying $400 a month now for both us us. I had a talk with the insurance company, asking them if I have TOO much coverage. They quoted some options to lower the premium (and the coverage), but I have to do some homework on how much assisted living really costs in a nice place. $16,000 a month seems like a LOT to me. Anybody have any numbers of how much it costs? When I see that "A Place for Mom" commercial I wonder about getting a feel for how much this costs, and what really is our probability of ever getting to use it. We decided to buy the policies when at that time both my wife and I moved our parents into assisted living because they just couldn't take care of themselves anymore. Poor health and too many steps. Now we see that in our not too distant future.


PS - About 10 years ago I had an insurance agent come to compare LTC policies. She was so proud to be in our house and get a chance to compete. She spent about 2 minutes looking at our policy and said "I can't compete with this", packed up and left. Apparently, the trick is to buy early. Not something you want to hear when you wait til you're over 65.

My mom was in a "nice" assisted living place for 3 months and it cost like $55,000 That included some extra assistance and supplies she needed. (Then we also had Hospice coming in, too.) She passed after the 3 months and we used her savings to pay the bill.

 

[WinniWoman]

Years ago I had a Long Term Care Policy. It had a provision in it that they couldn't raise your premium unless they raised the premium for everyone in your class. They did this to me two or three times so I cancelled the policy. This was one of the reasons I decided to move into a CCRC when I turned 65 years old. There is no need for a LT Care Policy when you live in a CCRC..

George

But George, the ones we looked at we would still have to pay extra for anything outside of independent living. In fact, even the independent living homes were $4000 per month.

 

[GetawaysRus]

Interesting to read this. I haven't gotten a rate increase yet after 10 years of buying Genworth LTCI. Since you just received a rate increase, maybe I should expect one soon. Since rates are written for age bands, I do not know if you are older than me. I bought it when I was in my 40s.

I'm guessing that my wife and I are both older than you. We're on the better side of 65 and trying to hold there...

Our policies started (about 10 years ago) at a max daily benefit of $140 with a 5% annual inflation adjustment.

LTC is a complex product. Comparing policies is not easy.

 

[controller1]

Our LTC premiums increased 20% this year. Our policy is Prudential through my industry association. The two of us are covered (separate policies) for $285/day for ten years with home health care at 60% of that amount. The premiums are a little over $1,000/year/person. One benefit is if we never make a claim our estate gets 100% of our premiums back.

This policy is no longer available through our association.

 

[bogey21]

But George, the ones we looked at we would still have to pay extra for anything outside of independent living. In fact, even the independent living homes were $4000 per month.

The big benefit of living in a CCRC as opposed to having a LTC policy is that coverage is limited to a number of months (or maybe years) with LTC policies. This is not an issue with CCRCs...

As I understand it there are two distinct pricing models with CCRCs. Some keep your monthly fee relatively low but charge you market if/when you move into Assisted Living. Others charge you a higher monthly fee but give you a discounted rate if/when you move into Assisted Living. In both cases you are guaranteed a slot. Note that most, if not all, CCRCs require a certain amount of financial wherewithal before they approve your initial admittance. Again most, if not all, guarantee that if you run out of money (without intentionally dissipating it) they will cover any shortfall. Obviously one needs to read their contract before signing up...

George

 

[WinniWoman]

The big benefit of living in a CCRC as opposed to having a LTC policy is that coverage is limited to a number of months (or maybe years) with LTC policies. This is not an issue with CCRCs...

As I understand it there are two distinct pricing models with CCRCs. Some keep your monthly fee relatively low but charge you market if/when you move into Assisted Living. Others charge you a higher monthly fee but give you a discounted rate if/when you move into Assisted Living. In both cases you are guaranteed a slot. Note that most, if not all, CCRCs require a certain amount of financial wherewithal before they approve your initial admittance. Again most, if not all, guarantee that if you run out of money (without intentionally dissipating it) they will cover any shortfall. Obviously one needs to read their contract before signing up...

George

I think you got in on an old business model. The ones I have researched are very expensive no matter what and they also do not guarantee if you run out of money they will cover you. They do have a reserve type fund for these situations but no guarantees it will be there when you need it.

 

[Cornell]

My mother lives in a CCRC that guarantees her care throughout her entire life, even if she runs out of $$. Her CCRC has independent living, assisted living (multiple levels of care), skilled nursing, and memory care. She obviously had to document her assets before she moved in and they determined she had enough money to cover the bills and most likely wouldn't run out of money. Additionally, she has a Genworth LTC care policy which has been a godsend for our family. We use the Genworth policy to pay for an RN that is independent of her CCRC that acts as my mother's "advocate". She manages my mom's health care and serves as a liason b/w the CCRC and our family. For instance, my mother recently went to the ER. Her personal RN met me at the hospital and knew all the ins/outs of my mother's medical history and medication and communicated it all to the ER staff while I just kept my mom company Additionally the RN knows the "right" questions to ask of the ER, hospital staff etc. I love that the RN works for my mom and not the CCRC.

 

[Icc5]

Yes. Genworth pays out the most, meaning more policy holders, in the LTCI industry. The approval to pay out claim is also the highest in the LTCI industry.

My policy is with Genworth and it is just under $9,000 total for both, not each. And yes, under our plan everyone in our condition has to be raised before ours. I was expecting to pay more just not 40% more all at once. I'm glad to see it was other's too or I would have no way to know the company was following what they said. I was offered to reduce the price and benefits but would never do that.
Thanks for all the replies.
Bart