Buying from Developer

[pugs3602]

Hi everyone. First off, thank you for this wonderful forum and for all the members that share their wisdom. I have been reading through posts for the past week or so, so I know that I should buy resale and look to minimize the MF/Points ratio.

Here's the thing -- I am not the one buying, my father-in-law is. I've explained to him how the resale market is the way to go and could save him $20,000+, but he is adamant about buying through the developer because he thinks it is easier and safer. Given that, I will be going with him to our second meeting with the developer to make a purchase. They already know we're interested and likely to buy, as this is our second appointment with them. What can I do to negotiate and get the best deal for him? What type of unit should I ask for and what would be a somewhat reasonable price point for it? Should I bring up resale prices I have found on the internet? They have told me that prices are not negotiable -- is this true?

What we are looking for: We live on Oahu. With 2 young kids in school and the high cost of airfare, we have been doing a lot of staycations instead of travelling. We've been taking advantage of a friend's Open Season rates and so my father in law wanted to get us our own timeshare so we could take advantage of the Open Season whenever we wanted to (he would put us on the deed). We would not likely use our home week -- we would probably use the points for staycations (either Oahu or BI). Given this, is location something I should consider in terms of resale value? Does season matter? Or do I just look for the best MF/points ratio and purchase price?

Here are 2 options we've been given in our first meeting:
1) Boulevard 1 BR EOY (3400 points) for $16,500, $628MF (0.185MF/point), and 10,000 bonus points. This was the option we were given to get us in the door for the least amount of money so that we could take advantage of Open Season rates.
2) Tuscany 2 BR Gold (5000 points) for about $27k, $1195 MF (0.239MF/point), and 14,000 bonus points. We were concerned about 3400 points EOY not being enough for us to do anything with, so they gave us this option.

I'm thinking of asking them to look for a Boulevard 2 BR Plus Platinum, which I saw in the MF thread as 8400 points, $873 MF (0.1039 MF/Point). Thoughts? I wanted to stay away from International to reduce complexities, and I thought the high point value Hawaii properties would be too expensive.

Thank you for reading and for any advice you have.

 

[frank808]

I live on Oahu and own over 58k HGVC points. I have bought all these resale and have not paid anywhere close to what ONE 7k platinum 2br contract would cost retail.

Buying resale is very safe. Buy from a reputable broker or using a 3rd party escrow company would protect you from an unscrupulous sale.

PM me and we can discuss HGVC. Like most TUGGERS, I would not pay retail for HGVC unless you wanted elite status. Which is not worth paying retail price even from owners that have elite status.

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[pianodinosaur]

I have Elite Plus Status. I can assure you that the benefits are not worth the extra cost. Buy resale if you can.

 

[frank808]

I have Elite Plus Status. I can assure you that the benefits are not worth the extra cost. Buy resale if you can.

I would like elite premiere status for the savings in reservation fees. But am not willing to pay retail for it. Might buy into a W 57th street studio to pay the higher annual inclusive club fee. But even at 14k it would take me 14+ years to break even on my average of 10 reservations a year.

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[PigsDad]

You have 2 kids, so realistically you are going to want to book 2BR units most of the time, especially as your kids get older. Neither of those options will give you much of a vacation, as the standard 2BR reservation for a week is 7000 points during the high (Platinum) season. However, the newer resorts often only have Plus or Premium rooms, and there are higher point structures for many of those newer resorts, so even 7000 points won't get you a full week vacation several of the newer resorts. 5000 points won't give a family of four much value, IMO.

If your FIL only wants to consider buying retail, 7000 points could cost him $40K, plus or minus. HGVC is not flexible on price, but they are flexible on bonus points. You could get way more than 10K bonus points; I have heard of deals including 30-50K bonus points. However, bonus points are one-time points -- in 2 years they are gone.

Now if you were able to change your FIL's mind on buying resale, he could buy 7000 points with a low MF/point ratio (~0.12/pt) at a Vegas location for $7K or less, saving him $30K+. No amount of one-time bonus points is worth that. And despite what a salesperson may say, resale owners have all the benefits as a retail buyer -- there is no difference (with the exception of points not counting toward Elite, but that starts at 14K annual points anyway). If you are concerned about the "safety" of buying resale, you can purchase through a broker (which I highly recommend) and they will handle everything. There are a few brokers that come highly recommended here on this site.

Good luck!
Kurt

 

[SmithOp]

I purchased resale with Syed Sarmad. His office in on Maui. Your FIL should talk or meet with him.

https://advantagevacation.com/hilton-grand-vacations-club-for-sale-and-resale/

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[pugs3602]

You have 2 kids, so realistically you are going to want to book 2BR units most of the time, especially as your kids get older. Neither of those options will give you much of a vacation, as the standard 2BR reservation for a week is 7000 points during the high (Platinum) season. However, the newer resorts often only have Plus or Premium rooms, and there are higher point structures for many of those newer resorts, so even 7000 points won't get you a full week vacation several of the newer resorts. 5000 points won't give a family of four much value, IMO.

If your FIL only wants to consider buying retail, 7000 points could cost him $40K, plus or minus. HGVC is not flexible on price, but they are flexible on bonus points. You could get way more than 10K bonus points; I have heard of deals including 30-50K bonus points. However, bonus points are one-time points -- in 2 years they are gone.

Now if you were able to change your FIL's mind on buying resale, he could buy 7000 points with a low MF/point ratio (~0.12/pt) at a Vegas location for $7K or less, saving him $30K+. No amount of one-time bonus points is worth that. And despite what a salesperson may say, resale owners have all the benefits as a retail buyer -- there is no difference (with the exception of points not counting toward Elite, but that starts at 14K annual points anyway). If you are concerned about the "safety" of buying resale, you can purchase through a broker (which I highly recommend) and they will handle everything. There are a few brokers that come highly recommended here on this site.

Good luck!
Kurt

Thank you for the perspective on how many points we may need and what kind of bonus points are possible. I'll try one more time with my father in law and bring him the names of some of the agents recommended here. Crossing my fingers he'll come around!

 

[pugs3602]

I purchased resale with Syed Sarmad. His office in on Maui. Your FIL should talk or meet with him.

https://advantagevacation.com/hilton-grand-vacations-club-for-sale-and-resale/

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Thank you! Will check him out!

 

[vacationtime1]

I purchased resale with Syed Sarmad. His office in on Maui. Your FIL should talk or meet with him.

https://advantagevacation.com/hilton-grand-vacations-club-for-sale-and-resale/

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Syed has represented us in three (non-Hilton) transactions -- two on the buying side, one on the selling side. He is a star.

 

[XLDriver]

Thank you for the perspective on how many points we may need and what kind of bonus points are possible. I'll try one more time with my father in law and bring him the names of some of the agents recommended here. Crossing my fingers he'll come around!

I've had both retail and resale purchases over the years. For your purposes (as long as you can use the club reservation window of 9 months or less before check-out), I would recommend a Las Vegas resale purchase, avoiding Elara. I say that only because if you do decide to purchase an upgrade directly from Hilton in the future, you will be able to upgrade in another HGVC resort. Las Vegas will give you some great points per dollar, and has lower maintenance fees.
The advantage of resale, is you'd be able to sell your interval for about what you paid for it initially (that won't happen if you buy it from Hilton, and try to sell it on the open market).
If you fall in love, and you Father-in-law decides he wants more developer units, then they will give you the "equity" of the full initial purchase price towards your upgrade; so again you wouldn't loose what you paid; in fact you'd have some excess to use towards the inflated purchase price of the upgrade.
If your Father-in-law decides to continue with the retail purchase, the most I've had was 30,000 bonus points on a 2200 point interval; but that was after they had messed up the paperwork, and I would have been able to walk away.
The problem with bonus points is that you have to use them within 24 months; so if its a large number of points depending on your time schedule it may be difficult to use them all.

 

[RX8]

This is similar to your F-I-L wanting to buy a house from the builder because it is easier and safer than buying a house through a licensed real estate agent.

With HGVC resale purchased through a licensed and reputable broker you get the same easy and safe transaction, staying in the exact same room as if purchased from the developer, only at tens of thousands of dollars in savings.

With my analogy above one does at least get a brand new house from the builder. With timeshares purchased from the developer, you aren’t buying a “new” timeshare. Whether it is a developer or resale purchase, that room had already been used hundreds of times.

Strongly recommended to buy the exact same thing resale through a reputable broker and put that $20K to $30K+ savings in a college fund for the kids.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Although open season sounds attractive, I would not bank on it if that is the only reason to buy. You should compare to rental prices via Redweek, Tug and even sites like Trivago. I am starting to see more timeshares on rental sites for the cost of maintenance fees without the obligations of ownership. However, I recognized that Hawaii rentals may be more expensive.

With the rumored acquisition by Apollo/Diamond or other entity, I would expect Open Season benefit to become significantly curtailed as they will pursue renting the units externally for more money to goose up financials for an eventual IPO. There is also evidence that a similar program by a Sunterra acquisition was reduced after Apollo acquired this system.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...y-discounts-disappearing.295745/#post-2339427

Over the past 4 years, we also have seen open season benefits devalued from a great deal across the board to a decent deal in pockets. There is no guarantee they will continue.

 

[brp]

Thank you for the perspective on how many points we may need and what kind of bonus points are possible. I'll try one more time with my father in law and bring him the names of some of the agents recommended here. Crossing my fingers he'll come around!

Ask him to come here and read some of what we're writing. It could work

Cheers.

 

[PigsDad]

Thank you for the perspective on how many points we may need and what kind of bonus points are possible. I'll try one more time with my father in law and bring him the names of some of the agents recommended here. Crossing my fingers he'll come around!

Another broker to check out is Judi Kozlowski, a Remax relator specializing in timeshares, especially HGVC and Marriott. I personally have bought through her twice and both times we got a great deal and her office handled the transaction very efficiently.

http://www.judikoz.com

Kurt

 

[SmithOp]

Thank you! Will check him out!

Syed has a listing for a 14,400 unit at Grand Islander for $29k, that is just a little more than the Tuscany 5,000 point HGV was offering. He can make offers on these, the prices may not be firm.

I own a 14,400 at Kings Land, the ratio on the large point Hawaii units is very favorable. It makes a point reservation cheaper than open season cash rates.

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[MikeinSoCal]

Here are 2 options we've been given in our first meeting:
1) Boulevard 1 BR EOY (3400 points) for $16,500, $628MF (0.185MF/point), and 10,000 bonus points.

Easier and safer? He can probably find something equal to this for free.

 

[terces]

The good thing about what your FIL is doing is that someone has to buy from the developer or the rest of us would not be able to buy on the resale market.

 

[pugs3602]

Thanks again, everyone. Great points. I'll print out some of the listings on the realtor sites you've suggested. Perhaps seeing hard copies of actual listings will have more clout than me simply telling him that it is cheaper.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@pugs3602 Perhaps showing that Syed and Judi and others are licensed real estate brokers who will use escrow companies may alleviate your FIL concern about being scammed. Although Tuggers like to chase the ultimate deal via Ebay, we forget that for the Timeshare 101 crowd who simply want a safe deal at a decent resale price, the licensed brokers are a safe method for resale while saving thousands over developer.

Syed Sarmad advantagevacations.com
Judi Kos Judikoz.com

Good luck!

 

[brp]

@pugs3602 Perhaps showing that Syed and Judi and others are licensed real estate brokers who will use escrow companies may alleviate your FIL concern about being scammed. Although Tuggers like to chase the ultimate deal via Ebay, we forget that for the Timeshare 101 crowd who simply want a safe deal at a decent resale price, the licensed brokers are a safe method for resale while saving thousands over developer.

Syed Sarmad advantagevacations.com
Judi Kos Judikoz.com

Good luck!

Very good point. We have bought 3 resales from Judi. And I have finally ventured to Ebay for a recent (in progress) purchase because I feel better-equipped now. But a licensed broker is a safe place to start.

Cheers.

 

[GT75]

We have bought 3 resales from Judi. And I have finally ventured to Ebay for a recent (in progress) purchase because I feel better-equipped now. But a licensed broker is a safe place to start.

I also would recommend using a licensed broker for the first couple of purchases even if you pay $1-2K more than ebay for example. It will still be much less than retail and will give you "peace of mind" that the process was handled correctly.

 

[GTLINZ]

I also would recommend using a licensed broker for the first couple of purchases even if you pay $1-2K more than ebay for example. It will still be much less than retail and will give you "peace of mind" that the process was handled correctly.

I totally agree. Judi basically developed the timeshare resale program and works directly with HGVC (I just sold thru her). Since the units are deeded and there is a professional closing there is no difference besides the elite privs (which elite owners have already said in this post is not worth it). I would think either Judi or Syed (since he is a local) are excellent choices and should be able to provide some peace of mind to your FIL.

 

[hurnik]

I'd recommend Diane Nadeau at timesharebrokersales.com
All but two of mine were from her (ironically the last two that were not through her went horrible, albeit finally resolved months later).

 

[pugs3602]

Thought I'd give you guys an update. I was not able to convince my FIL to buy resale -- he had talked to a friend who had a deal go bad and he also just wanted to get it done quickly without having to go talk to anyone else. He ended up buying a 5,000 point Boulevard 2BR from the developer. Not the result I was going for, but none-the-less, we are now owners! Thanks again for all of your help.

 

[RX8]

Wow, very surprised.

There is 5,000 points being given away here for FREE just today. Although I understand some hesitation buying resale how much risk is there really when it is free?

However, if your father in law has an extra $25,000+ to spend it is his choice. We did our best.

Welcome to HGVC!

Edited: Actually, since your father in law is within the rescission period I am not giving up just yet. Hoping that the fact that he spent $25,000+ (whatever he paid) too much will sink in and that he rescinds the purchase. 5,000 points may not go far enough for a family looking for a 2 bedroom. One last plea to rescind and purchase resale offering more points, the same maintenance fee, the same easy transaction through a reputable broker, for THOUSANDS of dollars less. If that doesn’t work then I finally give up.