Why Electric-Powered Mobility is Finally Finding Traction

[MULTIZ321]

Why Electric-Powered Mobility is Finally Finding Traction.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnfr...ity-is-finally-finding-traction/#4d1765be6718.


Richard

 

[Passepartout]

The electric infrastructure build-out is still slow out here in the boonies. But still, yesterday, we bought our end-of-the-month gasoline at the Kroger station where we get $.50 off per gallon in discounts from buying groceries and stuff. The gas generally lasts us most of a month. We were only able to squeeze in 16 gallons. The discounts are having less benefit. I seldom drive my pickup 100 miles in a month, and DW's plug-in hybrid Honda Clarity that is our 'workhorse' daily driver only starts it's gas engine when we take a highway trip. Around town we have about 50 miles of range on electricity, so that car, over the year we've had it, has averaged 65ish miles per gallon for 15,000 miles. It would use less gas if we didn't have a second home 2 hours away.

But the point is, if there were intermediate charging stations, we would utilize them more and burn less fossil gasoline. There is money available via the Volkwagen diesel settlement that municipalities and businesses can get to install charging stations, but at least here, there aren't many. It would make sense to put them at grocery stores, shopping centers, public garages, libraries, near schools, sports venues, playgrounds, parks- anywhere that attracts people to stop and spend a little time.

Jim

 

[CalGalTraveler]

We just transitioned to an EV a month ago. So far so good for DH commute because they have fast charging stations at work.

EV makes the most sense for delivery vehicles that have a defined route, consumers who have a fixed commute, or around-town driving. US post neighborhood trucks would be a perfect use for EVs.

Our EV is not ready for prime time yet for unexpected destinations because it only has 127 miles of range. We experienced range anxiety over the weekend when we drove to the airport. For some reason car didn't fully charge overnight so was estimated to only have 5 miles remaining if we didn't stop and charge. I used Chargepoint app and found a station close to where we could stop and shop. Took $5 in charging after an hour and this provided 60 miles of range which was more than enough to get home. Whew! There were plentiful charging stations around but the challenge is to find shopping or a restaurant to wait for an hour. Will look for something with more range in a few years to replace.

 

[WVBaker]

Or a really long extension cord.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

With that said, I can see a tipping point here in the SF Bay Area for EVs and Hybrids. EVs are all over the place and with solar on our home, free charging at work, and plentiful charging stations the economics of not having to pay for gas makes this a much better alternative.

Will keep our old ICE truck for hauling to our second home in the mountains but will not go back to ICE for our next everyday vehicles.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Passepartout You might see more EV infrastructure in the boonies sooner than you think. Here is an article in last week's WSJ. The station I used last weekend was at a private school that had installed solar panels in their parking lot. I believe they take a cut from this charging station.

Struggling Farmers See Bright Spot in Solar

By
Kirk Maltais
September 23, 2019

U.S. farmers are embracing an alternative means of turning sunlight into revenue during a sharp downturn in crop prices: solar power.

Solar panels are being installed across the Farm Belt for personal and external use on land where growers are struggling to make ends meet. The tit-for-tat tariffs applied by the U.S. and China to each other’s goods have cut demand for American crops. Futures prices for corn, soybeans and wheat are all trading around their lowest levels since 2010. Making matters worse, record spring rainfall left many farmers no time to plant a decent crop.

The revenue that Dick and Jane Nielsen earn from the corn and soybeans they grow on 3,500 acres outside St. Paul, Minn., has dropped by about 30% over the past six years. The Nielsens are planning to make up some of the shortfall with the roughly $14,000 that a local utility has agreed to pay them annually for the next 22 years to operate an array of solar panels on 15 acres of their land.

A local utility has agreed to pay Jane and Dick Nielsen roughly $14,000 annually for the next 22 years to operate solar panels on their land. PHOTO: TIM GRUBER FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
“It’s something to live on until we’re gone,” said Mr. Nielsen, 77 years old.

Farmers have two options for adding solar power on their farms: lease land for energy companies to generate power to funnel electricity into the grid, as the Nielsens are doing; or install their own solar panels to cut their electricity bills. Both methods can amount to more than $1,000 a month in improved margins, according to farmers and renewable-energy advocates.

“There’s absolutely growing interest in farmers improving their income streams,” said Rob Davis, a director with Fresh Energy, a St. Paul nonprofit that has worked with a few hundred farmers in 30 states to add solar power with environmental benefits to their operations. More https://www.wsj.com/articles/struggling-farmers-see-bright-spot-in-solar-11569242733

 

[Nolte]

These guys are selling directly back to the utility their solar production. I don't think they want to put in an EV charger on some backroad near where their farm fields were.

I do think the EV chargers will continue to be installed until they are more common. I think it really makes sense for a restaurant, shopping, center or hotel to have them. Unless charging capabilities change, we won't see them as we do a typical gas station now. There needs to be another 30 minute activity to occupy your time while it charges.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Chrisky]

We have one gas company that is seeing the light, here in Canada. Petro-Canada is installing EV charging stations in their stations all across Canada. They will have two types of chargers so owners of EV vehicles will have a choice. I think this an excellent idea, maybe other companies will do this as well.

 

[bogey21]

I do think the EV chargers will continue to be installed until they are more common. I think it really makes sense for a restaurant, shopping, center or hotel to have them.

If more and more customers have EVs, won't this become expensive for businesses having to install multiple EV charges. Then if there is more demand than chargers, how will they decide who get to charge their cars...

George

 

[magmue]

If more and more customers have EVs, won't this become expensive for businesses having to install multiple EV charges. Then if there is more demand than chargers, how will they decide who get to charge their cars...

At some point, the free ride for EV drivers will end. although there will probably continue to be businesses and organizations that offer free Level 2 charging.
Eventually, there will be a good network of Level 3 chargers, that can top up an EV fairly quickly, and will charge $ for metered quick charges. This website explains the 3 different levels of EV charging. A Level 3 can provide an 80% charge within 30 minutes.
http://www.evtown.org/about-ev-town/ev-charging/charging-levels.html

 

[Wyominguy]

It won't be long before there will be schemes put into place to replace the lost gas taxes for roads, bridges, etc. I know these have already been proposed but just wait, government agencies want their money somehow and it will not be cheap.

 

[Chrispee]

I’m pretty confident that most business owners who install chargers are making that money back pretty quick. How much would you pay to have a captive customer for 1hr+ who is statistically likely to have a pretty good disposable income? Surely that’s worth the $1 of electricity?

I know when I level 2 charge my car I invariably end up spending money an one or more of the businesses at the location.

 

[Passepartout]

It won't be long before there will be schemes put into place to replace the lost gas taxes for roads, bridges, etc. I know these have already been proposed but just wait, government agencies want their money somehow and it will not be cheap.

So, what's your preference? Pay a road use surcharge similar to the gas tax on gasoline, an annual fee on registration? Or what. We pay a $75 additional fee on registration, plus, since our car is hybrid, we also pay tax at the pump when we fuel it. And if we want to get a load of electrons at a pay charger, we pay $4.00 for about 50 miles worth, so that's fairly close to the cost per mile for gasoline.
I'd like to put solar panels on the roof and thumb my nose at the 'revenooers'.

Jim

 

[Chrisky]

Well, here where I live, not all ev chargers are free. There are also some places that we pay for parking and the ev charging is free. When we charge our vehicle at home we pay for the electricity we use. As far as I know, the taxes I now pay for my property, and income taxes cover for some of the roads etc.
In our case, this is not just about having an electric vehicle, and getting free charging. We have an electric vehicle so that we do not pollute the air with emissions from our vehicle.

 

[Nolte]

It won't be long before there will be schemes put into place to replace the lost gas taxes for roads, bridges, etc. I know these have already been proposed but just wait, government agencies want their money somehow and it will not be cheap.

It's already here. My state just instituted an additional $75 on my vehicle registration if you have a hybrid or EV vehicle.

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[Nolte]

If more and more customers have EVs, won't this become expensive for businesses having to install multiple EV charges. Then if there is more demand than chargers, how will they decide who get to charge their cars...

George

That sure could be a possibility. There have been a variety of ways discussed to help with charger congestion but as of now it hasn't been needed. One is a valet service of sorts at a hotel that will shuttle vehicles to and from chargers. Or a sign up type operation that would slot you when its time to charge. In any case it's going to be a slow build for these chargers. The main reason being is research shows that 90 percent of charging will be done at home, followed by 8 percent at business, schools, public entity, and only like 2 percent at a fast charger location. Now this can and will change as the EV charger build out continues. But it still will be the case that most charging will take place at home.

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[PigsDad]

IMO, until charging a car takes a similar amount of time vs. filling it with gas (~5 min), there will be a significant percentage of people who won't switch to EV due to the inconvenience factor.

Kurt

 

[Chrisky]

There is no inconvenience for us. Maybe requiring a little planning for our outing. As batteries improve so does length of time to charge.
Inconvenience? How inconvenient will it be if our air pollution increases, and we all have to wear masks to go outside?

 

[Wyominguy]

There is no inconvenience for us. Maybe requiring a little planning for our outing. As batteries improve so does length of time to charge.
Inconvenience? How inconvenient will it be if our air pollution increases, and we all have to wear masks to go outside?

The air quality in this country (not China) is so much better than 30 years ago it is frankly remarkable.

Neil

 

[Chrisky]

Neil, I never compared your country to China. Maybe your country’s air is better than 30 years ago. I have linked information from your country’s EPA. It is a very interesting website that everyone should read. I learned quite a lot when I read it.
https://www.epa.gov/clean-air-act-overview/air-pollution-current-and-future-challenges

I believe that we all should do anything we can to reduce pollution even more on this planet. That is why we have an electric vehicle, why I have reduced my use of plastic, why I do not buy cases of bottled water but use a bottle and refill it when I am going out, why I live in a condo that has solar panels on our roof and is heated geothermally.

 

[Passepartout]

I believe that we all should do anything we can to reduce pollution on this planet. That is why we have an electric vehicle, why I have reduced my use of plastic, why I do not buy cases of bottled water but use a bottle and refill it when I am going out, why I live in a condo that has solar panels on our roof and is heated geothermally.

Congratulations! We all need to do everything we can to pass a liveable and sustainable world on to future generations.

 

[easyrider]

I'm not a fan of ev. The carbon footprint is higher than a comparably sized gas vehicle mostly because of the mining and disposal of the ev's battery.

Oddly, the wild fire in CA shows some more flaws with ev's. Can't charge a car if the electricity isn't working.

Bill

 

[Chrispee]

I'm not a fan of ev. The carbon footprint is higher than a comparably sized gas vehicle mostly because of the mining and disposal of the ev's battery.

Bill

Do you have a source for your claim? Every single scientific study regarding carbon footprint (EV vs ICE) over the average lifespan of a car I’ve read conflicts with what you’ve stated.

 

[easyrider]

Do you have a source for your claim? Every single scientific study regarding carbon footprint (EV vs ICE) over the average lifespan of a car I’ve read conflicts with what you’ve stated.

Yes , I do, but it would trigger a political argument that I am not willing to be part of. I think I have read what you read regarding the advantages but I have also read info at how these batteries are made and disposed of and then compared to like a fuel efficient small vehicle like a Honda. The Honda has a lesser carbon footprint.

Bill

 

[Chrisky]

OK, I’ll give it a try. I am not making a political statement, just posting a few articles that show some very interesting graphs and comments, mainly with regard to European countries but could easily apply to my country.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017...lectric-cars-carbon-sustainable-power-energy/

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/three-ways-electric-vehicles-will-change-our-world