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My own speculation is that all Flex points owners and all MVC Destination Club enrolled weeks and points get automatic access/enrollment into the "future product form". All other ownerships may get enrolled by buying varying number of points in the new system, based on a scale of current ownership, to play in the "future product form"
My own speculation is that all Flex points owners and all MVC Destination Club enrolled weeks and points get automatic access/enrollment into the "future product form". All other ownerships may get enrolled by buying varying number of points in the new system, based on a scale of current ownership, to play in the "future product form"
Flex is a new program. They cannot disenfranchise some of their best Vistana owners because they happened to buy 10 or 3 years ago rather than last year. Additionally, the Flex inventory is so limited it would be a drop in the ocean for the big MVC family. I rather think it is going to be Staroptions.
From what i hear in the presentation, some locations will continue to sell what they have been selling even after the integration: Caribbeans, Mexico, etc.; they mention that they will be able to sell the new integrated points system almost everywhere in North America.
I bought back in mid-August at $85. Now almost $103. Been as high as $110 in the last few weeks. One analyst opined he thought the stock was still undervalued, and of course management agreed!
Thanks for the link to the archive. Here is the verbatim quote from Lee Cunningham, EVP and Chief Operating Officer:
"One of the greatest attributes of our acquired brands is that they too sell a points-based product. Given that our three largest vacation ownership brands in North America - Marriott Vacation Club, Sheraton Vacation Club, and Westin Vacation Club - are all licensed from Marriott International, we have a great opportunity to enhance the overall value of these products by linking them together to benefit our owners. We see this evolution occurring in two steps.
The first step will be to link usage by owners of these brands in a seamless fashion using a common points currency. As you might imagine, there are numerous usage rules and technologies that need to be integrated to achieve that objective. We hope to be in a position to announce and deliver this first step some time mid-to-late next year.
The second step of the evolution will be to transition to selling a single points-based product that is able to accommodate nearly all of the Marriott, Sheraton, and Westin resorts in North America. Not only will this be a win for our owners, providing them with additional usage options and enhanced flexibility, it will enable us to better leverage the capital efficient nature of our legacy MVC points program that Lani will speak to shortly.
Again, there are numerous technology, legal, and product hurdles to overcome prior to taking this step. However, the business and customer benefits of consolidating to a single product for the Marriott-licensed portion of the North America vacation ownership business definitely makes the journey worthwhile.
In the meantime, we will continue to grow our network of resorts and sales centers for all brands to help fuel our longer term growth targets."
So that's it, word-for-word. Parse and dissect however you see fit.
For my part, for Step 1, I think the key phrase is "link usage by owners of these brands in a seamless fashion using a common points currency." I think the word "seamless" might be a key one. What option would be the most seamless?
For Step 2, the key phrase may be "able to accommodate nearly all of the Marriott, Sheraton, and Westin resorts in North America." That would imply maybe some international resorts might not be accommodated in the new product (although presumably they would be part of the Step 1 common currency). That may just be a reflection of not being able to put some international locations into a Trust.
Also, not sure what significance there might be to "enable us to better leverage the capital efficient nature of our legacy MVC points program". Could that mean the current MVC Trust points structure will be the surviving common product in Step 2?
Flex is a new program. They cannot disenfranchise some of their best Vistana owners because they happened to buy 10 or 3 years ago rather than last year. Additionally, the Flex inventory is so limited it would be a drop in the ocean for the big MVC family. I rather think it is going to be Staroptions.
Not really. We know more. We now know they are developing a common currency to link MVC, Westin, and Sheraton that will provide “seamless” access to all three brands for owners, and the target is mid-to-late 2020. We also now know their ultimate goal is to sell one common points product that will encompass all three brands. No timeframe given for that second phase.
See the post right before yours for the verbatim statement, and you can draw your own conclusions.
Well you are right, they can. I did not mean that it is not in their ability to do so but rather they cannot do something that does not make sense and it will alienate such a big percentage of the owners. Time will tell.
That's very interesting, thank you for posting this. As Dioxide45 has noted, nothing here is actionable, but I think that's more because it's so cumbersome to combine all of these (or they would have already). It's interesting that they are announcing a common currency to link all systems -- not sure what to think of that. I don't know if it's a SuperCharged Trust Point (that you have to buy) or the traditional Trust Point that we've become familiar with.
Very interesting -- but I appreciate your patience and diligence in posting this....
Flex is a new program. They cannot disenfranchise some of their best Vistana owners because they happened to buy 10 or 3 years ago rather than last year. Additionally, the Flex inventory is so limited it would be a drop in the ocean for the big MVC family. I rather think it is going to be Staroptions.
But Flex is the points program which they are selling, not staroptions. Integration is planned around the points program, i.e. Westin and Sheraton Flex points and MVC trust points.
But Flex is the points program which they are selling, not staroptions. Integration is planned around the points program, i.e. Westin and Sheraton Flex points and MVC trust points.
Flex is not mentioned anywhere in the presentation. They only mention Westin Club and Sheraton Club. As we know, Vistana has had a points system from the very beginning, Staroptions. It is not relevant to me what they are selling now.
In Aruba, Europe etc MVC still sells weeks if I am not mistaken. It just does not matter IMO
Flex is not mentioned anywhere in the presentation. They only mention Westin Club and Sheraton Club. As we know, Vistana has had a points system from the very beginning, Staroptions. It is not relevant to me what they are selling now.
In Aruba, Europe etc MVC still sells weeks if I am not mistaken. It just does not matter IMO
After reading all of this and the language about a common point currency, this leads me to believe there will be a big amnesty period where all resales post 2010 will be put into the new system. Anyone else get the similar vibe?
With Westin/Sheraton going to a new point system, seems only natural to include the rest of the Marriott weeks as well, regardless of status. The big question will be to see if they try to monetize this access to the common point currency. Charge too much and owners will balk, especially Marriott owners that may have already paid a fee. Charge nothing and they'll see rapid adoption and see point/reservation activity increase.
Personally I still think that either it will be tied to the DC/Trust system in some way or as a minimum that the higher DC/Trust levels will be grandfathered in if it's a new additional layer. Time will tell.
Flex is a new program. They cannot disenfranchise some of their best Vistana owners because they happened to buy 10 or 3 years ago rather than last year. Additionally, the Flex inventory is so limited it would be a drop in the ocean for the big MVC family. I rather think it is going to be Staroptions.
VAC probably won't see it as disenfranchising anyone, instead it is giving them the "opportunity" to upgrade to the shiny new system.
I remember when we did our first owner's update just a couple years after we bought our developer unit and they were rolling out Sheraton Flex. I think the sales pitch for the "new" product will be very similar ("no availability with StarOptions, everything will be booked by owners of the new BonOptions...blah...blah...blah")
VAC probably won't see it as disenfranchising anyone, instead it is giving them the "opportunity" to upgrade to the shiny new system.
I remember when we did our first owner's update just a couple years after we bought our developer unit and they were rolling out Sheraton Flex. I think the sales pitch for the "new" product will be very similar ("no availability with StarOptions, everything will be booked by owners of the new BonOptions...blah...blah...blah")
Thank Lord this is not a problem I have since I only own resale. Yet I know I would be extremely mad If I had paid $150k to buy from Vistana 5 years ago and they would tell me that I had less rights than someone who paid 10k last year. This is not good business sense IMHO and I would be shocked, truly shocked if they came up with such a scheme.
Flex is not mentioned anywhere in the presentation. They only mention Westin Club and Sheraton Club. As we know, Vistana has had a points system from the very beginning, Staroptions. It is not relevant to me what they are selling now.
In Aruba, Europe etc MVC still sells weeks if I am not mistaken. It just does not matter IMO
Westin Club and Sheraton Club are specific to Flex. They won't and cannot change staroptions structure for the 5 mandatory resorts. For the other developer voluntary weeks that were sold, there is specific language that SVN club enrollment can be altered or disenrolled. I suspect that deveoper purchased weeks will be given an option to convert or enroll into the future product form.
That's very interesting, thank you for posting this. As Dioxide45 has noted, nothing here is actionable, but I think that's more because it's so cumbersome to combine all of these (or they would have already). It's interesting that they are announcing a common currency to link all systems -- not sure what to think of that. I don't know if it's a SuperCharged Trust Point (that you have to buy) or the traditional Trust Point that we've become familiar with.
Very interesting -- but I appreciate your patience and diligence in posting this....
I attended a sales presentation at Mountainside a few weeks ago. It was probably the best one I've had. The rep had reviewed our portfolio and tailored his presentation to our situation. We have 1500 trust points and are chairman level. He indicated we will be in good shape with the new system because the point values/requirements for the Sheraton/Westin properties would likely be matched to similar ones with MVC. He believes we will be able to access these new properties since we already own trust points. He did say that chairman level will likely rise to 17000 points, but we are grandfathered in so it won't impact us. I actually learned a lot and he learned a lot, so it was a worthwhile experience for both. He made no promises, but believed what he told us based on currently available information.
Thank Lord this is not a problem I have since I only own resale. Yet I know I would be extremely mad If I had paid $150k to buy from Vistana 5 years ago and they would tell me that I had less rights than someone who paid 10k last year. This is not good business sense IMHO and I would be shocked, truly shocked if they came up with such a scheme.
If you're expecting the Vistana/Westin/Hyatt owners to be on equal footing going forward with any new version or options, I think you'll be truly shocked.
If you're expecting the Vistana/Westin/Hyatt owners to be on equal footing going forward with any new version or options, I think you'll be truly shocked.
My personal opinion is that the higher level MVC owners will be in a better position comparatively than any of the acquired systems. I think it likely that the highest levels of MVC will be grandfathered to any new system or crossover option. I doubt this will be the same for anyone from the other systems. How much discrepancy is the question as I see it. It's not that they want to alienate but they do want to extract $$$ going forward. I think the most likely for any super system is that that they will raise the limits on various levels, grandfather at least the 2 highest levels with MVC and do add purchase inclusion for the rest. At some point going forward they will likely tie any unified system to the Marriott Trust though they may rename it. And I do not see this as unfair given the specifics of the situation though I'm sure some will. YMMV.
My personal opinion is that the higher level MVC owners will be in a better position comparatively than any of the acquired systems. I think it likely that the highest levels of MVC will be grandfathered to any new system or crossover option. I doubt this will be the same for anyone from the other systems. How much discrepancy is the question as I see it. It's not that they want to alienate but they do want to extract $$$ going forward. I think the most likely for any super system is that that they will raise the limits on various levels, grandfather at least the 2 highest levels with MVC and do add purchase inclusion for the rest. At some point going forward they will likely tie any unified system to the Marriott Trust though they may rename it. And I do not see this as unfair given the specifics of the situation though I'm sure some will. YMMV.
Again, I am a poor resale owner so I do not have a dog in this fight. But my expectation is for the Vistana owners and the MVC owners to have similar status based on the number of points they own in the common currency even if their points come solely from converting their Staroptions. The clear clue IMO is that they are talking about increasing the number of DC points needed for each level because of the Vistana integration so clearly they are expecting the Vistana ownership to count. Of course they can also grandfather some MVC owners that would no longer qualify but that does not change the big picture of equal rights, again IMO
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