Caution when moving to VIP. Be weary of "bait and switch." Double check FUTURE PRIVILEGES.

[drepublic]

I posted this comment in another thread but I'd thought I'd consolidate my posts into one informative post so you guys making the moves to VIP or higher levels of VIP know what to look out for. I'm wondering if this "bait and switch" might be standard protocol...

Despite the best advice of respected members of this board. I made the move to permanent VIP silver (Future Champion).

Now that is out of the way I made this move very recently (owned 326k points and purchased another 74k points to get 400k) and was adamant about getting things in writing. I was temporary silver with bonus points from almost two years ago and that is well documented on another thread here.

Anyway I wanted to become future CHAMPION level as that was the entire push to upgrade now...and look at what these idiots did on the contract while I'm on the phone with Quality Assurance. I took this pic with my phone just before they changed it to say Champion Privileges while on the quality assurance call going over the docusign contract.

You can see from the image below that SILVER VIP's should move to CHAMPION level in the new Privileges System. I got a sales call a few weeks ago touting this benefit.

So you can see they were setting me up for current Silver VIP but also setting me up for the lowest level Privilege "ADVANTAGE." I even gave the Quality Assurance agent a few attempts to spot this error asking innocent questions then grew rapidly impatient and just lost it....and went very far out of my way to make the quality assurance agent feel less than human and what a colossal waste of my time this is to now have to wait for them to fix this "error" and promptly ended the call.

While fixing the "error" I called the sales manager and lit his ass up!!! I could just imagine how this would have went down had I been in the actual Clearwater resort sales office...but I'll be there soon enough anyway...can't wait to meet Mr. "Bait and Switch."

Now maybe they might have made a mistake but I doubt it...as I went over and over and over this point in conversations leading up to this call...he blamed "The Computer."

The point is check, check, double check the contracts if any of you move to VIP or upgrade your VIP. You better have the FUTURE PRIVILEGES section labeled appropriately...and thanks to all the cool kids here for providing the charts as it helps being armed when going into conversations with these guys. This is how it contract reads now.

And regarding the 4 asterisks after "Future Privileges" ****

"Enrollment in the new Privileges program, anticipated late 2020 (subject to change). Benefits are currently in development and subject to change. Existing Permanent VIP members will retain the unlimited housekeeping benefit upon launch of Privileges, which shall be non-transferable and subject to program rules, terms and conditions.

 

[dgalati]

I posted this comment in another thread but I'd thought I'd consolidate my posts into one informative post so you guys making the moves to VIP or higher levels of VIP know what to look out for. I'm wondering if this "bait and switch" might be standard protocol...

Despite the best advice of respected members of this board. I made the move to permanent VIP silver (Future Champion).

Now that is out of the way I made this move very recently (owned 326k points and purchased another 74k points to get 400k) and was adamant about getting things in writing. I was temporary silver with bonus points from almost two years ago and that is well documented on another thread here.

Anyway I wanted to become future CHAMPION level as that was the entire push to upgrade now...and look at what these idiots did on the contract while I'm on the phone with Quality Assurance. I took this pic with my phone just before they changed it to say Champion Privileges while on the quality assurance call going over the docusign contract.

View attachment 14646

You can see from the image below that SILVER VIP's should move to CHAMPION level in the new Privileges System. I got a sales call a few weeks ago touting this benefit.

View attachment 14647

So you can see they were setting me up for current Silver VIP but also setting me up for the lowest level Privilege "ADVANTAGE." I even gave the Quality Assurance agent a few attempts to spot this error asking innocent questions then grew rapidly impatient and just lost it....and went very far out of my way to make the quality assurance agent feel less than human and what a colossal waste of my time this is to now have to wait for them to fix this "error" and promptly ended the call.

While fixing the "error" I called the sales manager and lit his ass up!!! I could just imagine how this would have went down had I been in the actual Clearwater resort sales office...but I'll be there soon enough anyway...can't wait to meet Mr. "Bait and Switch."

Now maybe they might have made a mistake but I doubt it...as I went over and over and over this point in conversations leading up to this call...he blamed "The Computer."

The point is check, check, double check the contracts if any of you move to VIP or upgrade your VIP. You better have the FUTURE PRIVILEGES section labeled appropriately...and thanks to all the cool kids here for providing the charts as it helps being armed when going into conversations with these guys. This is how it contract reads now.

View attachment 14648

And regarding the 4 asterisks after "Future Privileges" ****

"Enrollment in the new Privileges program, anticipated late 2020 (subject to change). Benefits are currently in development and subject to change. Existing Permanent VIP members will retain the unlimited housekeeping benefit upon launch of Privileges, which shall be non-transferable and subject to program rules, terms and conditions.

View attachment 14649

Typical sales bait, switch, daze, confuse and at the very least some half truths and lies. This sales strategy has hoodwinked many and is well documented on this board. Very hard to believe what a agent of Wyndham says. I believe we have agents of Wyndham posting on this board.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Hi drepublic,
Thank you for posting .

I was a reader of the TUG thread where you asked for pro and con on moving to VIP Silver - now / in advance of the coming changes . You made YOUR choice armed with TUG collective knowledge .

This thread adds to that collective knowledge and I appreciate the - “paying it forward” - nature of the screen shots .

I am sure this will assist someone get everything for which they are actually paying Wyndham .

 

[55plus]

Hi drepublic,
Thank you for posting .

I was a reader of the TUG thread where you asked for pro and con on moving to VIP Silver now / in advance of the coming changes . You made YOUR choice armed with TUG collective knowledge .

This thread adds to that collective knowledge and I appreciate the - “paying it forward” - nature of the screen shots .

I am sure this will assist someone get everything for which they are actually paying Wyndham .

Totally agree. Hearing is one thing, but seeing their tactics in print/on a contract, catching a sales weasel in action trying to cheat you and coming out on top gives potential developer point buyers an idea what to look for.

 

[drepublic]

Totally agree. Hearing is one thing, but seeing their tactics in print/on a contract, catching a sales weasel in action trying to cheat you and coming out on top gives potential developer point buyers an idea what to look for.

I have a good friends who are DVC owners and saw the value in Wyndham after seeing our trips to Bonnet Creek. They recently went VIP gold on Bonnet Creek UDI or so she says. I advised them resale like you guys advised me ha ha...sound familiar?

Anyway I just informed her of what happened to me and to double check her contract. I’ll follow up with her later. They are good people and are foster parents and have taken in and cared for babies for many weeks who they had to give back...heart breaking.

But I’ll be in Clearwater soon enough over Spring Break and love giving the front desk guys a hard time the moment they start talking beyond my first “No.” My wife hates it, but I always make things uncomfortable for them bringing up Clearwater going into CWA a month after I bought UDI...but I usually make them fix me a couple of those Clearwater Blue drinks first.

Maybe I’ll agree an “in room owner update” this time on the condition it’s the sales manager who enters my room...this should be fun.


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[RX8]

...I made this move very recently (owned 326k points and purchased another 74k points to get 400k) and was adamant about getting things in writing.

Glad you got it sorted out, even if you had to get hot and feisty to get it corrected.

Since you got it in writing isn’t it entirely possible that it was truly an error? After all, would they be stupid enough to pull a bait and switch when it is clearly spelled out on the contract?

 

[drepublic]

Glad you got it sorted out, even if you had to get hot and feisty to get it corrected.

Since you got it in writing isn’t it entirely possible that it was truly an error? After all, would they be stupid enough to pull a bait and switch when it is clearly spelled out on the contract?

It was clearly spelled out to screw me over so yes they would be. They clearly left out the world “Grandfathered” and clearly had me going to the lowest level in privileges.

I gave the Quality Assurance guy a few opportunities to catch that mistake pointing him to “explain” that section to me and asking a simple question or two before I straight lost it. He had to know...as he had zero defense when I called him out on it..like hand caught in the cookie jar....he had nothing to say.

I delt with a nice kid at Clearwater who looked around for me and put this all together, as they don’t typically make a 74k deed, but at this point it was out of his hands and in the Sales Manger and Quality Control guy. I texted the kid the moment I saw it as I continued to give the QC guy a chance to point out this “error” on the phone.


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[RX8]

Since you are now at 400,000 points, the normal flow for you, according to the chart, would have been the Advantages privileges as that is for those with 300,000 to 499,999 points. The Champion privileges is for those with points 500,000 to 799,999 so you would have been too low for that.

You negotiated to make you eligible for the Champion privileges even though you didn’t have enough points and they tried to contract you without it. Is that all correct?

 

[drepublic]

Since you are now at 400,000 points, the normal flow for you, according to the chart, would have been the Advantages privileges as that is for those with 300,000 to 499,999 points. The Champion privileges is for those with points 500,000 to 799,999 so you would have been too low for that.

You negotiated to make you eligible for the Champion privileges even though you didn’t have enough points and they tried to contract you without it. Is that all correct?

No not correct.

There was nothing to negotiate as Wyndham called me a few weeks ago to pitch the idea to upgrade to Silver VIP and they OFFERED future champion level. Key word being OFFERED...and I merely took Wyndham up on their offer.

They might have had a sale but the limp Telesalesman on the phone couldn’t even quote me the 74k points I wanted (Clearwater or Bonnet Creek UDI) to go Silver. I don’t want CWA points...or the carrot dangling bonus points. I want Clearwater...

So I called a sales rep I knew at Clearwater to see about getting what I wanted. They couldn’t or wouldn't make a Clearwater 74k Deed or even a 400k deed transfering my existing 326k Clearwater points but would make a 74k Bonnet Creek Deed. I had plans to obtain start obtaining Bonnet Creek points anyway for ARP at holidays so that deed makes since to me.

Champion level was clearly discussed early on in my calls with Clearwater as I simply mentioned the previous telesales call and how they insisted on CWA and refused to quote me anything else. Again I don’t want CWA points or all the carrot dangling bonus points he offered.

I want Clearwater...so I called Clearwater, and settled for Bonnet Creek.

And regarding the chart, I'm not sure which one you are referring to but I drew some arrows on the one below indicating a "normal flow" so where do you think I should land at 400,000 points now that my current VIP Program Tier is Silver?

 

[Richelle]

No not correct.

There was nothing to negotiate as Wyndham called me a few weeks ago to pitch the idea to upgrade to Silver VIP and they OFFERED future champion level. Key word being OFFERED...and I merely took Wyndham up on their offer.

They might have had a sale but the limp Telesalesman on the phone couldn’t even quote me the 74k points I wanted (Clearwater or Bonnet Creek UDI) to go Silver. I don’t want CWA points...or the carrot dangling bonus points. I want Clearwater...

So I called a sales rep I knew at Clearwater to see about getting what I wanted. They couldn’t or wouldn't make a Clearwater 74k Deed or even a 400k deed transfering my existing 326k Clearwater points but would make a 74k Bonnet Creek Deed. I had plans to obtain start obtaining Bonnet Creek points anyway for ARP at holidays so that deed makes since to me.

Champion level was clearly discussed early on in my calls with Clearwater as I simply mentioned the previous telesales call and how they insisted on CWA and refused to quote me anything else. Again I don’t want CWA points or all the carrot dangling bonus points he offered.

I want Clearwater...so I called Clearwater, and settled for Bonnet Creek.

And regarding the chart, I'm not sure which one you are referring to but I drew some arrows on the one below indicating a "normal flow" so where do you think I should land at 400,000 points now that my current VIP Program Tier is Silver?


View attachment 14664

If you are Silver before the new program goes into effect, you will be grandfathered into Champion. Whether it’s in the contract or not, that’s the plan. They could change the plan at anytime, so it doesn’t hurt to have it in the contract. CWA is the only thing telesales is allowed to sell. I was told this by two separate telesales rep at two separate offices. Although the one in Orlando said they could sell Bonnet creek as well, but that might have changed by now. He or anyone else at telesales cannot sell you Clearwater. They used to be able to sell deeded property, but not anymore. You have to go there to buy Clearwater as far as I know, but someone here will correct me if I’m wrong.


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[MoPops]

This thread is very informative. Very timely for me. We recently started the process to move to Silver. We traded high MF points at Pagosa for lower MF CWA points. Adding a resale unit to get to 492,000 points. The whole process isn’t costing us that much. (Compared to what we were quoted last year in Ft Lauderdale).
I don’t know anything about these future changes and going to “Champion” level. I’ll hopefully get that accomplished at the same time. I never would have known to check for it. It’s obvious I need to spend a lot more time on TUG.
Thanks again for posting.


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[drepublic]

He or anyone else at telesales cannot sell you Clearwater. They used to be able to sell deeded property, but not anymore.

I spoke with Telesales in the past about buying Clearwater and at that time they could do it but would not quote me my AVG cost at Clearwater/1000. I traded in 200k CWA as a direct equity trade into Clearwater with a UDI purchase of 126k points at Clearwater bringing my total to 326k. I wasn't in position then to pay the higher price/1000 on that small point amount but am now. I would have pulled the trigger on Clearwater if they could have made that 74k purchase happen.

 

[Richelle]

I spoke with Telesales in the past about buying Clearwater and at that time they could do it but would not quote me my AVG cost at Clearwater/1000. I traded in 200k CWA as a direct equity trade into Clearwater with a UDI purchase of 126k points at Clearwater bringing my total to 326k. I wasn't in position then to pay the higher price/1000 on that small point amount but am now. I would have pulled the trigger on Clearwater if they could have made that 74k purchase happen.

I bought National Harbor from telesales in May of 2018. I think the change happened sometime in the first or second quarter of 2019. It caught me by surprise. I have zero intention of buying CWA because of the high maintenance fees. Plus, they keep throwing in high maintenance fee resorts which is making it climb faster then a lot of resorts. National harbor did increase a whopping 8.57% for next year because of the tax hikes that they are currently fighting. Hopefully they will win. Even still, It’s cheaper then CWA. I don’t book 13 months out, so I do t have a need for ARP. That’s the only reason to go CWA. I don’t know that I will buy anytime in the near future because resorts are higher then telesales. If I do, it will be in Edisto and will include a piggyback contract that are significantly cheaper then regular points. Unfortunately they can only sell South Carolina resorts. There are other offices that do piggybacks, but as far as I know, none in Florida.


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[drepublic]

will include a piggyback contract that are significantly cheaper then regular points. Unfortunately they can only sell South Carolina resorts. There are other offices that do piggybacks, but as far as I know, none in Florida.

How would I go about finding more information on piggyback contracts? Is this the same as PIC or is it something else?

 

[Richelle]

How would I go about finding more information on piggyback contracts? Is this the same as PIC or is it something else?

It’s something different entirely. @HitchHiker71 talked with someone at Edisto. He can correct me if I am wrong, but I think they said he had to buy 105,000 CWA points at $175 per 1,000 in order to buy a 700,000 point contract for $30,000. That puts the total price for 805,000 points to $60.90 per 1,000 or $48,375. They do have smaller piggyback contracts, but I’m not sure if you still have to buy 105,000 points for the smaller piggyback. Piggybacks do count towards VIP.


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