• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Club Wyndham Collapse (WYND)

Joined
Jun 22, 2018
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
11
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Club
Club Wyndham Collapse (WYND)

[This post has been split off into its own thread]

I used to be a reporter for 10 years (2005-2015) at the largest stock market magazine in Scandinavia ( called “Aktiespararen”).

When analyzing stocks I try to follow the advices of stock picking legends Peter Lynch and Benjamin Graham; the mentor of Warren Buffett.

Apart from reading the financial reports, Lynch contacted their competitors and customers and also tried to visit the premises.

There are two Wyndham companies listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

WYND (Wyndham Destinations) is the Timeshare company. They sell VOIs (Vacation Ownership Interests). I am one of their customers and paid 58,379 usd for a “silver membership” in the Wyndham Access club. Every year I get 400000 “points” and can use them to stay in a Wyndham facility. (Nashville “cost” 50000 points/week in off season while it usually cost 15000 points/night outside USA).

During 1,5 years I have expressed my extremely low customer satisfaction to the Better Business Bureau and on various chat sites and to several (senior) Wyndham Club officials. Meanwhile, I have honestly never come into contact with anyone who has been happy with the membership. This must be totally unique, and everybody has the same story to tell.

You sign up for the rest of your life and it is almost impossible to exit the membership and get the money back. Still, long time Wyndham Club members complain that very little of the promised vacation locations are available. A Wyndham whistleblower had to be paid 20 million dollars because she exposed the criminal, unethical sales technique of Wyndham.

Wyndham and their subsidiary RCI claim to have properties around the world for their club members. But they have not. Especially not during the season when most people take vacations.

Their booking system is rigged. The paying hotel guest comes first and the life time member have to accept what is then available. Myself I could not even get a week in Memphis in January 2018 (starting January 16th), despite that they have at least 16 hotels there. But they had one week in Nashville instead. And that hotel was almost full while other hotel chains nearby were almost empty and there were no lights in their windows. It was snowing and freezing cold in Nashville and Tennessee. The pavements were icy and dangerously slippery, and no concerts were advertised at the Grand Ole Opry. But we had to accept what was available. In this case it was not Hawaii, Brazil or Fiji Islands.

The club subsidiary RCI have more properties outside USA. RCI is said to be included in the membership; but it was not. It took me 3 months and three reminders before I became a member in RCI. And then my vacation time was over.

Whenever you use a Wyndham property you are invited to a update meeting. They promise interesting news for members. But it is all about upgrading your Club membership. And to pay them more.

They said that my Silver membership was not good enough for me. I needed the Rewards system and a Gold membership. And after an 8-9 hours meeting (without anything to eat meanwhile) I signed another contract and paid 46,779 usd.

Later I found out that I was already in the Rewards system. All I had to do was to transfer Wyndham Access points there. I had paid 46,779 dollars in vain. And no one bothered to tell me that when you transfer points this way, the exchange rate is only 0,4 Rewards points for 1 Club Access point.

When going to Sri Lanka in early December 2018 I found out that there was only 5 Wyndham places in that whole country. 4 were in the Capital and in the nearby area of the International airport. Plus one resort circa 250 kilometers away. But nothing was available for me.

And when calculating the cost of a Silver Club membership plus Club-maintenance costs I could only stay there for 11 days anyway. So I used a hotel booking site instead. They had 11000 places to offer in Sri Lanka. Comparing those costs with my silver membership, I could instead stay for 222 days in nice family hotels close to the beach.

I’m a member of Wyndham Club Access. The net is full of complains about how they run their business. Both by members, and by people who have been invited to their sales meetings. The complaints are not about small issues like unfriendly staff and unclean rooms (These are very frequent too of course….). But major issues that sales people promise things that goes against what’s in the contract. The sales people have positive answers to every question. Then they disappear leaving behind lots of unfulfilled promises. Their e-mail addresses cease to exist and phone calls are unanswered. I have never been able to get hold of a sales person after a contract was signed…

Wyndham is obviously over selling their memberships and taking in more members than they have accommodations for. They are promising overseas accommodations in faraway places where they have no footprint (They promised Africa for me, but have almost nothing there). And when they “help” with financing a membership they charge a 21 % interest rate.

Their back office is not working. It took them 30 minutes to set up an automatic payment plan for the rest of my life but 3 months to confirm that my message had been received and then another month to reply to just a few of my many questions.

Still it’s not the sales people who are responsible for this toxic sales and company culture. They just follow orders from the board and executive staff of WYND. (Who knows? Will we eventually see the CEO and boardmembers walk handcuffed the long way to the police-car following in the footsteps of Bernie Madoff, while angry club members try to hit them in the face?)

Because Wyndham Vacation Clubs are criminal organizations too. You can not sell and promise something and then not deliver. Even Charles Ponzi found that out as did the board and the executive persons at Enron and Worldcom. A class action is being prepared (Please contact Howard Prossnitz, prossnitzlaw@gmail.com). (Unfortunately, I can not join. The contract I signed had a clause that I could not have a jury trial. Wyndham outsmarted me).

*

My suggestion; Buy one share in Wyndham Destinations (WYND) listed on the New York Stock exchange. Go to their annual general meetings and tell everybody that you are unsatisfied. Picket once a week outside your local Wyndham hotel building. And make sure that reporters from your local radio, TV-station and newspaper are there too.

Attend the PTVO meetings. It is the “condo association” for Club members. This is what Robert Sachs of San Francisco CA. said when he wanted to join the PTVO board last year;

This is my first year of Club Wyndham ownership and I already have concerns. Reviewing the 2018 Budget I see a substantial increase in Bad Debt Expense over 2017: Points increased by only 11 % but Bad Debt increased 51 %. This suggests that Club Wyndham may have been too aggressive in its sales to unqualified buyers, taking on more risk than is prudent simply to grow the client base. The result is both a financial loss (bad debt) and increased difficulty by upstanding owners to use their points, since more owners are chasing the same number of properties. These are the types of issues on which the board should focus.”

I can only agree.

We have gotten a title insurance policy from First American Title Insurance Co. The “property” is listed as “Club Wyndham Access”. (But no info is given about usd-value or square meters or square feet or number of co-owners we share it with). Still PTVO says that all property is owned by a Trust. And that we don’t own anything.

WYND (Wyndham Destinations) presents itself as a Timeshare Company and as a mother-company for the Wyndham Vacation Clubs. And WYND sell “vacation ownership interests” (VOIs)/(=“Points”) to individual consumers; provides consumer financing in connection with the sale of VOIs at 21 % (sic!) interest.

WYNDs financial position is very weak. The booked value is negative (- 6.30 usd/share), and the informed investors have discovered that this company is a house of cards, mortgaged above the chimney. If all assets are sold it will still be in debt. Total Debt is 5.46 billion dollars while the Market Cap is only 4.05 billion dollars (June 2019). They are technically bankrupt.

The stock price have plummeted during the last 18 months from 57.31 usd (January 2018) to 43.21 usd (June 2019) despite recommendation by stock market TV-guru Jim Cramer in June 2018,

It is alarming that WYND is in this position. Their business model is brilliant. Members in the Vacation Clubs have been convinced and persuaded to make a very large one time advance payment – or take loans with an interest rate of 21% - to enjoy expensive vacations for the rest of their lives. The members also pay yearly maintenance fees despite the fact that we, and “our” PTVO or “Condo association”, are not owners but that the ownership is in a “Trust”.

I thought that my membership money was used to build or buy property to make sure I always had some place to stay. But instead it seems like the one-time advance payment is divided between the sales force and the Wyndham staff. I stopped all my payments more than one year ago. I had to tell my American bank that I was the victim of a scam. Many others have stopped paying too. There will be a bankruptcy in the future, but remember, that money is lost anyway.

They target senior citizens and immigrants who don’t have English as their first language. I’m not an American citizen or live in USA. (I was promised many special offers (“perks”) but I have only received two that can be used in Sweden, where I live. By two car rental companies).

At the first sales meeting I was told – Wyndham sales force confirmed – that this was a way of giving people cheap access to otherwise empty hotel rooms. Which might sometimes be true in low seasons and unpopular locations. Like Nashville in January during a snow storm.

THE GUILTY PEOPLE

We have a saying here: If you want to sweep a staircase clean –always start at the top. Who are the people responsible for creating this mess and ruining the lives of senior citizens every day of the year?

Please direct all correspondence and complaints about Club Wyndham to these people.

(The WYND company):

The CEO, President and Director Mr. Michael D. Brown (born 1971).

The Executive Vice president and chief Financial officer Mr. Michael A. Hug (born 1968)

The Executive Vice president and Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer Mr. James J. Savina (born 1974)

Chief Sales & Marketing Officer of Wyndham Vacation Clubs Mr. Jeff Myers (born 1968)

Chief Operating Officer of Wyndham Vacation Clubs Mr. Geoff Richards (born 1973)

The WYND BOARD MEMBERS;

Stephen P. Holmes, Chairman of the Board,

Under the heading LEADERSHIP we see;

Michael D. Brown, President and Chief Executive Officer

Jeff Myers, Chief Sales and Marketing Officer, Wyndham Vacation Clubs

Geoff Richards, Chief Operating Officer, Wyndham Vacation Clubs

Barry Robinson, President and Managing Director, International Operations, Wyndham Vacation Clubs



I also believe that the Board of Directors of the PTVO Owners Association are not really protecting our interests; Dave Evans (President), Pete Hernandez (Treasurer).

*

I get replies almost daily to my own writing from other unhappy members. The Wyndham Club strategy might be more sinister and negative than we have imagined. We have broken all contact with Wyndham. We don’t pay them and we don’t stay at Wyndham locations. And eventually Wyndham decides that we have defaulted and they will keep the membership money. This is a financial Jack Pot for Wyndham. It is a lot of money to take and keep; and it is probably part of their evil plan.

The bad behavior of Wyndham is well known in USA. 900000 Club members also have families. Maybe 1 % of the population in America have been hurt and they are telling the other 99 % about it. So now they have to target people not living in USA or immigrants who don’t speak English well.

WYND (Wyndham Destinations) has a negative booked value. If they sell all assets they will still be in debt. WYND is doomed. Eventually it will collapse.

Who wants to employ a former Wyndham official or a former Wyndham board member when the word Wyndham will be as bad as Madoff?

The following people are analysts for the WYND stock. They are the ones that analyze a public company from various aspects; Profit, future earnings, dividends, performances by the CEO and board, etc.

They decide whether the stock is on the way up because it’s well run and profitable. Or if you should sell the stock as it has weaknesses and is on the way down.

A good analyst is interviewing customers and competitors. I think that they have forgotten that we are the customers. We have a life long relationship with WYND. And our children might even inherit the membership. We have bought the VOIs and WYND operates the Vacation Clubs.

I think that Benjamin Graham avoided to invest in a company with a negative booked value. I have contacted the WYND Analysts. I have a feeling that they are unaware of the discontent among the WYND customers (and that they have overlooked the negative booked value).

No one has answered so far. I suggest that you also contact them. WYND is listed on the New York Stock exchange. A listed company like WYND cannot behave like they do. The stockholders will eventually understand that a collapse is forthcoming. Then they will sell the shares. An analyst who is not aware of what we – the customers - think and feel and give a “buy” recommendation will lose their credibility among investors. They will be happy that we have contacted them and warned them.

I guess that WYND is telling them as many lies as they have told us. Remember, WYND is a corrupt company. It should be delisted from the New York Stock Exchange because of criminal conduct.

Please contact these analysts;

ben.combes@credit-suisse.com

stephen.grambling@gs.com

tbatory@janney.com

dkatz@jefferies.com

joseph.greff@jpmorgan.com

brandt.a.montour@jpmorgan.com

brian.dobson@instinet.com

ian.zaffino@opco.com

yarmaks@stifel.com

patrick.scholes@suntrust.com

jshojaian@wolferesearch.com

*

Club members say that they cannot get the vacations they have been promised. In fact some have first been refused as club Members and been told that it is not available – and then they booked the same vacation at the same time as a paying customer. Because when you pay you go first. This is completely opposite what we have been promised. It is fraudulent, and it has to be stopped.

Jonas Bernholm, Blekingegatan 25, 11856 Stockholm, Sweden Ph: 0046-8-6426358.

(The full story about my Wyndham Failure is available. Please write to jonasbernholm@yahoo.com)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

pedro47

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
22,072
Reaction score
8,535
Points
948
Location
East Coast
Some of the very best weekly rental deals are thru their RCI Government & RCI RedWeek. Com website. They are about $300 to $500 per week. This is the average weekly range.
 

comicbookman

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
973
Reaction score
321
Points
274
Location
Dillwyn, Virginia
while I am not going to defend Wyndham, your piece has many inaccuracies. we have been members for over 20 years. we generally happy with what we have. Did we pay to much for a lot of it? definitely, but we have gotten tons of use and enjoyment from our ownership. you talk about the number of hotels they have and not being able to use your timeshare points to book them. Duh. only a couple of Wyndham hotels are available to the timeshare folks. You act surprised that (I assume RCI) only has a few locations in Sri lanka. really, you cannot read an RCI map to see this? Timeshare sales people lie, so I have no doubt you were lied to, but timeshares and hotel rooms are separate things. Clearly you did not do your homework after agreeing to spend a lot of money. You signed a contract, and if they did not live up to it, you have a point. If you failed to read it and they have done all they agreed to on paper, then you have broken it by defaulting. I have no informed comment on your financial analysis, but if it is as loose with facts as your opening, I take it with a grain of salt. I am sorry you are unhappy with what you bought and you have every right to complain, just please try to not be as loose with facts as the salesman who lied to you.
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,086
Reaction score
2,486
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 77k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HGVC South Bend 1/1
Please have a TLDR version. I love Wyndham, but I bought resale. In fact, I have five (5) Wyndham TS. I have two (2) Grand Deserts that are my Wyndham pride and joy. Then I have CWA, Star Island, and Ocean Walk - the three of which I might give away via Ovations.
 
Last edited:

55plus

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
2,543
Reaction score
1,174
Points
398
Location
USA! USA! USA!
We've been owners for almost 30 years and enjoy a VIP Platinum membership. When my parents bought in there were only a few locations - points were new to the industry and very cheap back then. Since then resort locations were added. Some very nice ones at high demand locations. My parents were very satisfied with the ownership and now I am very satisfied with it. It has paid for itself many times over. I have no complaints. If Wyndham were to close their doors today we'd come out ahead and I'd miss them. HOAs will hire a new management companies to take over and life will go on. I don't know what will happen to the CWA trust since individual owners don't have specific deeded property in their name. I'm sure there is a workaround.
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,086
Reaction score
2,486
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 77k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HGVC South Bend 1/1
We've been owners for almost 30 years and enjoy a VIP Platinum membership. When my parents bought in there were only a few locations - points were new to the industry and very cheap back then. Since then resort locations were added. Some very nice ones at high demand locations. My parents were very satisfied with the ownership and now I am very satisfied with it. It has paid for itself many times over. I have no complaints. If Wyndham were to close their doors today we'd come out ahead and I'd miss them. HOAs will hire a new management companies to take over and life will go on. I don't know what will happen to the CWA trust since individual owners don't have specific deeded property in their name. I'm sure there is a workaround.

If Wyndham falls, I imagine that II will buy RCI including CWA. Does II even have pts TSs?

I paid $1 for each of my five (5) Wyndham TS, so it’s not like I would lose a lot with Wyndham falling.
 
Last edited:

Pathways

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
1,018
Reaction score
715
Points
223
Location
Indiana
Club Wyndham Collapse (WYND)

[This post has been split off into its own thread]

I used to be a reporter for 10 years (2005-2015) at the largest stock market magazine in Scandinavia ( called “Aktiespararen”).

When analyzing stocks I try to follow the advices of stock picking legends Peter Lynch and Benjamin Graham; the mentor of Warren Buffett.

Apart from reading the financial reports, Lynch contacted their competitors and customers and also tried to visit the premises.

There are two Wyndham companies listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

This post is so full of BS. I started to refute line-by-line and realized it was going to be a book. Then I decide there is so much misinformation from this 'person' that maybe he's just a troll looking for laughs as we argue with his comments.

I know I'm happy with my ownership, as are 99% of those owners I meet.

Did he really join over a year ago just to post this now?
 

Rolltydr

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
4,206
Reaction score
5,753
Points
399
Location
St. Augustine
Resorts Owned
CWA, Ocean Blvd, Fairfield Glade
I’m completely happy with my silver VIP membership and it is very rare that I have a problem making a reservation that I want. in fact, it’s only happened once and that was because I wanted to go to Majestic Sun in the spring and I was already within the express reservation period. OP may know what he is talking about regarding the financials but is way off base with everything else as far as I’m concerned.
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,086
Reaction score
2,486
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 77k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HGVC South Bend 1/1
This post is so full of BS. I started to refute line-by-line and realized it was going to be a book. Then I decide there is so much misinformation from this 'person' that maybe he's just a troll looking for laughs as we argue with his comments.

I know I'm happy with my ownership, as are 99% of those owners I meet.

Did he really join over a year ago just to post this now?
I didn’t even read everything. That’s why I asked for a TLDR version.
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,161
Reaction score
3,804
Points
499
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
OP says, "Wyndham and their subsidiary RCI claim to have properties around the world for their club members. But they have not. Especially not during the season when most people take vacations."

Yogi Berra says, "Nobody goes there. It's too crowded."
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,675
Reaction score
2,064
Points
348
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
I guess internet research is not your strong suit for two reasons. First, If it was, you would have found plenty of happy owners on Facebook of TUG. Or maybe you were focusing on people that hate Wyndham, so you didn’t look for people who like them. I’m a happy VIP Gold owner and do not regret my purchase. Second, the conversion rate is not hard to find. If you would have done your internet research before the rescission period ended, you would have found it. The fact is, you believed a commission sales person. A person who doesn’t get paid if you don’t buy. Did you expect them to tell you anything negative like that the conversation rate sucks or that you can only use future years points to convert. Or you can only convert every other year? Any sales person who makes commission is prone to lying. That’s not exclusive to Wyndham or timeshares. Also, timeshares are an impulse buy. Common sense dictates that you should not buy something so expensive on impulse. Or if you do, you should read everything you sign and research it thoroughly. If you would have read what you signed, you would have known what your rescission period was. If you knew what it was, and were smart, you would have done your research long before the rescission period ended. I do not doubt you were lied to. Many timeshare sales people are scum. That’s also not exclusive to Wyndham. From what I hear, Blue Green is worse. Just because they are scum and lied to you, doesn’t release you from your responsibility to protect your finical security and not make such and expensive impulse buy. Normally I would be a bit nicer about this, but you spent so much time blaming Wyndham and took no time to take responsibility for your mistakes and carelessness with your money. Grow up.

Also, I’ve had no issues getting what I wanted, even before I was VIP. VIP status has no bearing on what is available to you. If you book far enough in advance, you’d have better luck. Again, if you did your research and were smart, you’d know it’s first come first serve. You have no proof they are overselling their resorts. The fact is, people who own at undesirable resorts are booking desirable resorts. So there is inventory open at the undesirable resorts because those owners are not booking there. It’s an exchange program. That’s how it works. Any timeshare system runs into the same issue of not having enough availability during prime season. It has nothing to do with overselling and everything to do with high demand at desirable resorts. Please take the time to learn the system before you write a so called one sided article. A real journalist would have not focused on one specific developer when many timeshare systems have the same flaws. You’re not a real reporter or at least not a respectable one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,675
Reaction score
2,064
Points
348
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
Please have a TLDR version. I love Wyndham, but I bought resale. In fact, I have five (5) Wyndham TS. I have two (2) Grand Deserts that are my Wyndham pride and joy. Then I have CWA, Star Island, and Ocean Walk - the three of which I might give away via Ovations.

TL;DR version: They hate Wyndham. They didn’t do their research to find out half the things they were told were outright lies, and the other half were half truths. Very basic research would have told them that. They blame Wyndham entirely and are taking no responsibility for being irresponsible with their money by making an expensive impulse buy and not researching it.

Oh and the part about them being journalists is probably a lie.

That pretty much sums it up I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

cbyrne1174

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,916
Reaction score
1,598
Points
274
Location
Tampa, FL
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham, Marriott, DVC
100% resale!!
TL;DR version: They hate Wyndham. They didn’t do their research to find out half the things they were told were outright lies, and the other half were half truths. Very basic research would have told them that. They blame Wyndham entirely and are taking no responsibility for being irresponsible with their money by making an expensive impulse buy and not researching it.

Oh and the part about them being journalists is probably a lie.

That pretty much sums it up I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Resale buyers need people like that to upfront the cost and create a market for really cheap contracts. I'm personally not the slightest bit affected by Wyndham sales tactics. I know they are weasels and it entertains me every update that I go to. The truth is that there isn't actually anything wrong with the membership itself. People just get mad because they can't pre-plan 10 months out and aren't informed that their purchase isn't worth anything on the resale market. Then when they see how cheap their membership can be had on the resale market, they project it onto Wyndham instead of admitting they did something stupid. Wyndham tries to sell to EVERYONE regardless if it is right for the person making the purchase. I always have to explain to them at updates why VIP makes zero sense for me.
 

rickandcindy23

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
31,901
Reaction score
9,001
Points
1,049
Location
The Centennial State
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Founder; Disney OKW & SSR; Marriott's Willow Ridge,Shadow Ridge,Grand Chateau;Val Chatelle; Hono Koa OF (3); SBR(LOTS), SDO a few; Grand Palms; WKORV-OF (2),Westin Desert Willow.
We own a lot of points and are platinum. I sure don't love Wyndham. As platinum owners, we have seen so many downgrades of our benefits, some sort of expected, others not. When they changed our use year to January for all of our contracts, that was a mess. They have taken away some benefits that were promised and we used early in the membership. I am talking guest certificates without limit.

But the rest is okay. I feel sorry for people who pay a lot to get into the system. It's not worth the same price as Marriott, Hilton and other systems. But we didn't pay the high prices others did.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,327
Points
298
We own a lot of points and are platinum. I sure don't love Wyndham. As platinum owners, we have seen so many downgrades of our benefits, some sort of expected, others not. When they changed our use year to January for all of our contracts, that was a mess. They have taken away some benefits that were promised and we used early in the membership. I am talking guest certificates without limit.

But the rest is okay. I feel sorry for people who pay a lot to get into the system. It's not worth the same price as Marriott, Hilton and other systems. But we didn't pay the high prices others did.
Tell me about the use year alignment and how Wyndham helped themselves to your points on the non proration of points.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,327
Points
298
Tell me about the use year alignment and how Wyndham helped themselves to your points on the non proration of points.
Some here will say its ok that Wyndham hijacks the points on the use year alignments. Nothing wrong with getting shorted on points unless you are a agent of Wyndham.
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,161
Reaction score
3,804
Points
499
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
Tell me about the use year alignment and how Wyndham helped themselves to your points on the non proration of points.

Some here will say its ok that Wyndham hijacks the points on the use year alignments. Nothing wrong with getting shorted on points unless you are a agent of Wyndham.

There you go talking to yourself again!
 

cbyrne1174

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,916
Reaction score
1,598
Points
274
Location
Tampa, FL
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham, Marriott, DVC
100% resale!!
When I get old, I'd rather be the person that talks to myself than the person that talks down to others.
 

Braindead

TUG Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
2,504
Reaction score
1,243
Points
298
Then when they see how cheap their membership can be had on the resale market, they project it onto Wyndham instead of admitting they did something stupid.
When I get old, I'd rather be the person that talks to myself than the person that talks down to others.
Hmmmm!!
Who’s talking down saying some are STUPID!!!!!!
 

T-Dot-Traveller

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
4,644
Reaction score
3,592
Points
348
Location
Canada
Resorts Owned
Mayan Palace Regency
Taranova
Club Wyndham Collapse (WYND)

[This post has been split off into its own thread]

I used to be a reporter for 10 years (2005-2015) at the largest stock market magazine in Scandinavia ( called “Aktiespararen”).

When analyzing stocks I try to follow the advices of stock picking legends Peter Lynch and Benjamin Graham; the mentor of Warren Buffett.

Apart from reading the financial reports, Lynch contacted their competitors and customers and also tried to visit the premises.

There are two Wyndham companies listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

WYND (Wyndham Destinations) is the Timeshare company. They sell VOIs (Vacation Ownership Interests). I am one of their customers and paid 58,379 usd for a “silver membership” in the Wyndham Access club. Every year I get 400000 “points” and can use them to stay in a Wyndham facility. (Nashville “cost” 50000 points/week in off season while it usually cost 15000 points/night outside USA).

During 1,5 years I have expressed my extremely low customer satisfaction to the Better Business Bureau and on various chat sites and to several (senior) Wyndham Club officials. Meanwhile, I have honestly never come into contact with anyone who has been happy with the membership. This must be totally unique, and everybody has the same story to tell.

You sign up for the rest of your life and it is almost impossible to exit the membership and get the money back. Still, long time Wyndham Club members complain that very little of the promised vacation locations are available. A Wyndham whistleblower had to be paid 20 million dollars because she exposed the criminal, unethical sales technique of Wyndham.

Wyndham and their subsidiary RCI claim to have properties around the world for their club members. But they have not. Especially not during the season when most people take vacations.

Their booking system is rigged. The paying hotel guest comes first and the life time member have to accept what is then available. Myself I could not even get a week in Memphis in January 2018 (starting January 16th), despite that they have at least 16 hotels there. But they had one week in Nashville instead. And that hotel was almost full while other hotel chains nearby were almost empty and there were no lights in their windows. It was snowing and freezing cold in Nashville and Tennessee. The pavements were icy and dangerously slippery, and no concerts were advertised at the Grand Ole Opry. But we had to accept what was available. In this case it was not Hawaii, Brazil or Fiji Islands.

The club subsidiary RCI have more properties outside USA. RCI is said to be included in the membership; but it was not. It took me 3 months and three reminders before I became a member in RCI. And then my vacation time was over.

Whenever you use a Wyndham property you are invited to a update meeting. They promise interesting news for members. But it is all about upgrading your Club membership. And to pay them more.

They said that my Silver membership was not good enough for me. I needed the Rewards system and a Gold membership. And after an 8-9 hours meeting (without anything to eat meanwhile) I signed another contract and paid 46,779 usd.

Later I found out that I was already in the Rewards system. All I had to do was to transfer Wyndham Access points there. I had paid 46,779 dollars in vain. And no one bothered to tell me that when you transfer points this way, the exchange rate is only 0,4 Rewards points for 1 Club Access point.

When going to Sri Lanka in early December 2018 I found out that there was only 5 Wyndham places in that whole country. 4 were in the Capital and in the nearby area of the International airport. Plus one resort circa 250 kilometers away. But nothing was available for me.

And when calculating the cost of a Silver Club membership plus Club-maintenance costs I could only stay there for 11 days anyway. So I used a hotel booking site instead. They had 11000 places to offer in Sri Lanka. Comparing those costs with my silver membership, I could instead stay for 222 days in nice family hotels close to the beach.

I’m a member of Wyndham Club Access. The net is full of complains about how they run their business. Both by members, and by people who have been invited to their sales meetings. The complaints are not about small issues like unfriendly staff and unclean rooms (These are very frequent too of course….). But major issues that sales people promise things that goes against what’s in the contract. The sales people have positive answers to every question. Then they disappear leaving behind lots of unfulfilled promises. Their e-mail addresses cease to exist and phone calls are unanswered. I have never been able to get hold of a sales person after a contract was signed…

Wyndham is obviously over selling their memberships and taking in more members than they have accommodations for. They are promising overseas accommodations in faraway places where they have no footprint (They promised Africa for me, but have almost nothing there). And when they “help” with financing a membership they charge a 21 % interest rate.

Their back office is not working. It took them 30 minutes to set up an automatic payment plan for the rest of my life but 3 months to confirm that my message had been received and then another month to reply to just a few of my many questions.

Still it’s not the sales people who are responsible for this toxic sales and company culture. They just follow orders from the board and executive staff of WYND. (Who knows? Will we eventually see the CEO and boardmembers walk handcuffed the long way to the police-car following in the footsteps of Bernie Madoff, while angry club members try to hit them in the face?)

Because Wyndham Vacation Clubs are criminal organizations too. You can not sell and promise something and then not deliver. Even Charles Ponzi found that out as did the board and the executive persons at Enron and Worldcom. A class action is being prepared (Please contact Howard Prossnitz, prossnitzlaw@gmail.com). (Unfortunately, I can not join. The contract I signed had a clause that I could not have a jury trial. Wyndham outsmarted me).

*

My suggestion; Buy one share in Wyndham Destinations (WYND) listed on the New York Stock exchange. Go to their annual general meetings and tell everybody that you are unsatisfied. Picket once a week outside your local Wyndham hotel building. And make sure that reporters from your local radio, TV-station and newspaper are there too.

Attend the PTVO meetings. It is the “condo association” for Club members. This is what Robert Sachs of San Francisco CA. said when he wanted to join the PTVO board last year;

This is my first year of Club Wyndham ownership and I already have concerns. Reviewing the 2018 Budget I see a substantial increase in Bad Debt Expense over 2017: Points increased by only 11 % but Bad Debt increased 51 %. This suggests that Club Wyndham may have been too aggressive in its sales to unqualified buyers, taking on more risk than is prudent simply to grow the client base. The result is both a financial loss (bad debt) and increased difficulty by upstanding owners to use their points, since more owners are chasing the same number of properties. These are the types of issues on which the board should focus.”

I can only agree.

We have gotten a title insurance policy from First American Title Insurance Co. The “property” is listed as “Club Wyndham Access”. (But no info is given about usd-value or square meters or square feet or number of co-owners we share it with). Still PTVO says that all property is owned by a Trust. And that we don’t own anything.

WYND (Wyndham Destinations) presents itself as a Timeshare Company and as a mother-company for the Wyndham Vacation Clubs. And WYND sell “vacation ownership interests” (VOIs)/(=“Points”) to individual consumers; provides consumer financing in connection with the sale of VOIs at 21 % (sic!) interest.

WYNDs financial position is very weak. The booked value is negative (- 6.30 usd/share), and the informed investors have discovered that this company is a house of cards, mortgaged above the chimney. If all assets are sold it will still be in debt. Total Debt is 5.46 billion dollars while the Market Cap is only 4.05 billion dollars (June 2019). They are technically bankrupt.

The stock price have plummeted during the last 18 months from 57.31 usd (January 2018) to 43.21 usd (June 2019) despite recommendation by stock market TV-guru Jim Cramer in June 2018,

It is alarming that WYND is in this position. Their business model is brilliant. Members in the Vacation Clubs have been convinced and persuaded to make a very large one time advance payment – or take loans with an interest rate of 21% - to enjoy expensive vacations for the rest of their lives. The members also pay yearly maintenance fees despite the fact that we, and “our” PTVO or “Condo association”, are not owners but that the ownership is in a “Trust”.

I thought that my membership money was used to build or buy property to make sure I always had some place to stay. But instead it seems like the one-time advance payment is divided between the sales force and the Wyndham staff. I stopped all my payments more than one year ago. I had to tell my American bank that I was the victim of a scam. Many others have stopped paying too. There will be a bankruptcy in the future, but remember, that money is lost anyway.

They target senior citizens and immigrants who don’t have English as their first language. I’m not an American citizen or live in USA. (I was promised many special offers (“perks”) but I have only received two that can be used in Sweden, where I live. By two car rental companies).

At the first sales meeting I was told – Wyndham sales force confirmed – that this was a way of giving people cheap access to otherwise empty hotel rooms. Which might sometimes be true in low seasons and unpopular locations. Like Nashville in January during a snow storm.

THE GUILTY PEOPLE

We have a saying here: If you want to sweep a staircase clean –always start at the top. Who are the people responsible for creating this mess and ruining the lives of senior citizens every day of the year?

Please direct all correspondence and complaints about Club Wyndham to these people.

(The WYND company):

The CEO, President and Director Mr. Michael D. Brown (born 1971).

The Executive Vice president and chief Financial officer Mr. Michael A. Hug (born 1968)

The Executive Vice president and Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer Mr. James J. Savina (born 1974)

Chief Sales & Marketing Officer of Wyndham Vacation Clubs Mr. Jeff Myers (born 1968)

Chief Operating Officer of Wyndham Vacation Clubs Mr. Geoff Richards (born 1973)

The WYND BOARD MEMBERS;

Stephen P. Holmes, Chairman of the Board,

Under the heading LEADERSHIP we see;

Michael D. Brown, President and Chief Executive Officer

Jeff Myers, Chief Sales and Marketing Officer, Wyndham Vacation Clubs

Geoff Richards, Chief Operating Officer, Wyndham Vacation Clubs

Barry Robinson, President and Managing Director, International Operations, Wyndham Vacation Clubs



I also believe that the Board of Directors of the PTVO Owners Association are not really protecting our interests; Dave Evans (President), Pete Hernandez (Treasurer).

*

I get replies almost daily to my own writing from other unhappy members. The Wyndham Club strategy might be more sinister and negative than we have imagined. We have broken all contact with Wyndham. We don’t pay them and we don’t stay at Wyndham locations. And eventually Wyndham decides that we have defaulted and they will keep the membership money. This is a financial Jack Pot for Wyndham. It is a lot of money to take and keep; and it is probably part of their evil plan.

The bad behavior of Wyndham is well known in USA. 900000 Club members also have families. Maybe 1 % of the population in America have been hurt and they are telling the other 99 % about it. So now they have to target people not living in USA or immigrants who don’t speak English well.

WYND (Wyndham Destinations) has a negative booked value. If they sell all assets they will still be in debt. WYND is doomed. Eventually it will collapse.

Who wants to employ a former Wyndham official or a former Wyndham board member when the word Wyndham will be as bad as Madoff?

The following people are analysts for the WYND stock. They are the ones that analyze a public company from various aspects; Profit, future earnings, dividends, performances by the CEO and board, etc.

They decide whether the stock is on the way up because it’s well run and profitable. Or if you should sell the stock as it has weaknesses and is on the way down.

A good analyst is interviewing customers and competitors. I think that they have forgotten that we are the customers. We have a life long relationship with WYND. And our children might even inherit the membership. We have bought the VOIs and WYND operates the Vacation Clubs.

I think that Benjamin Graham avoided to invest in a company with a negative booked value. I have contacted the WYND Analysts. I have a feeling that they are unaware of the discontent among the WYND customers (and that they have overlooked the negative booked value).

No one has answered so far. I suggest that you also contact them. WYND is listed on the New York Stock exchange. A listed company like WYND cannot behave like they do. The stockholders will eventually understand that a collapse is forthcoming. Then they will sell the shares. An analyst who is not aware of what we – the customers - think and feel and give a “buy” recommendation will lose their credibility among investors. They will be happy that we have contacted them and warned them.

I guess that WYND is telling them as many lies as they have told us. Remember, WYND is a corrupt company. It should be delisted from the New York Stock Exchange because of criminal conduct.

Please contact these analysts;

ben.combes@credit-suisse.com

stephen.grambling@gs.com

tbatory@janney.com

dkatz@jefferies.com

joseph.greff@jpmorgan.com

brandt.a.montour@jpmorgan.com

brian.dobson@instinet.com

ian.zaffino@opco.com

yarmaks@stifel.com

patrick.scholes@suntrust.com

jshojaian@wolferesearch.com

*

Club members say that they cannot get the vacations they have been promised. In fact some have first been refused as club Members and been told that it is not available – and then they booked the same vacation at the same time as a paying customer. Because when you pay you go first. This is completely opposite what we have been promised. It is fraudulent, and it has to be stopped.

Jonas Bernholm, Blekingegatan 25, 11856 Stockholm, Sweden Ph: 0046-8-6426358.

(The full story about my Wyndham Failure is available. Please write to jonasbernholm@yahoo.com)

FYI - TUG is an acronym for : Timeshare USERS Group .

If you wish to find information on how to better use what YOU BOUGHT, to vacation then stick around , ask questions and get well informed FREE advise & suggestions.

If on the other hand your goal is to complain about your own freewill choices .......
then you will get advice as well .
 
Last edited:

RX8

TUG Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
4,107
Reaction score
4,454
Points
449
Resorts Owned
HGVC and DVC
And after an 8-9 hours meeting (without anything to eat meanwhile) I signed another contract and paid 46,779 usd.

So that I understand - You paid Wyndham $58,379 to join the club. You didn't have a good experience with your ownership so you decided to buy more points for an additional $46,779?

With timeshares you must book as far out as possible to get what you want. Are you trying to make reservations last minute?

Those that are happy with their ownership have likely spent considerable time and effort to learn their contract, the Wyndham Club guidebook front and back, RCI resorts and rules, and were able to find internet Wyndham/timeshare support groups, all to help them maximize the usage of what they own. Did you do all of this as well?
 
Last edited:

joestein

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
2,373
Reaction score
2,125
Points
574
Location
Marlboro, New Jersey
So that I understand - You paid Wyndham $58,379 to join the club. You didn't have a good experience with your ownership so you decided to buy more points for an additional $46,779?

That statement seems so ridiculous, but I see it all the time. Salesman - If you just buy these additional points, all your troubles will go away. Disgruntled Customer - OK.

I guess it the type of person that TS salespeople prey on: stupid, inexperienced or old.
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,675
Reaction score
2,064
Points
348
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
So no comments from the OP that I saw. He expects us to read his so called article, but doesn’t care to read and respond to our comments. This one of those people who like to use platforms like this to whine and cry but don’t care about anyone else but themselves. Guess he didn’t get the sympathy he so craves. I can’t even feel sorry for this guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Top