Question about value of pre 2010 legacy weeks

[terces]

Hi all - I am visiting from the TUG - HGVC thread where we are having a lively discussion about the offer that Diamond Resorts / Apollo has made to buy HGVC. In trying to assess the future risk there has been a lot of comparison and discussion of the MVC model and history of the changes. There is one question I have that has not been answered, thus my reason for popping in here.

Can anyone shed some light on what happened with the value of MVC Weeks that were owned since prior to 2010 when MVC moved to the Trust model. Could you still sell those weeks on the resale market after 2010? Was there any value remaining in them for resale? If you were a resale buyer after 2010 of one of these legacy weeks could you deposit into the Trust or were you shut out of that trust system?

Thanks, I appreciate any words of wisdom you could offer.

 

[chemteach]

The resale of most of the weeks post 2010 decreased greatly. Palm Desert Platinum 2 BR LO weeks sold in the $6000 - $10,000 range pre 2010 on eBay. Now they sell for around $2000 - $3000 on eBay. If you buy/bought a resale week post 2010, you cannot/could not put that resale week into the DC points system unless you make/made a purchase of an additional week directly from Marriott. There are many threads in the Marriott forum about bringing post 2010 resale weeks into the DC points system.

 

[vacationtime1]

The resale of most of the weeks post 2010 decreased greatly. Palm Desert Platinum 2 BR LO weeks sold in the $6000 - $10,000 range pre 2010 on eBay. Now they sell for around $2000 - $3000 on eBay. If you buy/bought a resale week post 2010, you cannot/could not put that resale week into the DC points system unless you make/made a purchase of an additional week directly from Marriott. There are many threads in the Marriott forum about bringing post 2010 resale weeks into the DC points system.

This is all correct, but the question is whether the loss in value was due to Marriott's change to a trust model or whether the loss in value was caused by the Great Recession. Non-prime units at all resorts lost most of their values and have never recovered.

A separate reason is that Marriott has pushed MF's close to the point of absurdity; MF's on those prime Palm Desert weeks are approaching $1,800 (when the separately billed property taxes are added in) which puts so little distance between the annual cost of ownership vs. renting that ownership is not as appealing as it once was.

 

[Quadmaniac]

A separate reason is that Marriott has pushed MF's close to the point of absurdity; MF's on those prime Palm Desert weeks are approaching $1,800 (when the separately billed property taxes are added in) which puts so little distance between the annual cost of ownership vs. renting that ownership is not as appealing as it once was.

I think this is a huge factor as they`re not as much of a value as they once were. I still think its a good deal, just not a fantastic deal like it was before.

 

[VacationForever]

This is all correct, but the question is whether the loss in value was due to Marriott's change to a trust model or whether the loss in value was caused by the Great Recession. Non-prime units at all resorts lost most of their values and have never recovered.

A separate reason is that Marriott has pushed MF's close to the point of absurdity; MF's on those prime Palm Desert weeks are approaching $1,800 (when the separately billed property taxes are added in) which puts so little distance between the annual cost of ownership vs. renting that ownership is not as appealing as it once was.

I agree that Marriott's MF is out of control. I also own at Vistana and MF have not gone crazy like Marriott's and Vistana's have held steady for the past 10 years or so, and some years even decreasing. Marriott's MF has become a standard 4.5 to 6% per year increase for what I own.

 

[SteelerGal]

I agree that Marriott's MF is out of control. I also own at Vistana and MF have not gone crazy like Marriott's and Vistana's have held steady for the past 10 years or so, and some years even decreasing. Marriott's MF has become a standard 4.5 to 6% per year increase for what I own.

Haven’t heard what the increase will be for Vistana but Hyatt has increased 8%-20%. I’m expecting an increase.

 

[SteelerGal]

I would compare Vistana or Hyatt instead. Deeds convert to points after xxx amount of time. Both have points systems that are failing because the buyin is ridiculous. MVC is now reviewing if an overlay or another conversion system will be instituted. Hyatt is remaining its own entity. For Vistana, only certain locations have StarOptions attached, which is also different from HGVC. HGVC charges the initial fee for all purchases and season points are activated.
IMHO, whomever purchases HGVC, should do they research before changing the System. It took MVC to get a decade for MVC to reach their current saturation level. It’s not an easy feat.

 

[VacationForever]

Haven’t heard what the increase will be for Vistana but Hyatt has increased 8%-20%. I’m expecting an increase.

I have an estimate for 2020 Vistana Resort MF already and without detailed comparison of 2019 and 2020, it looks like it is in the ballpark of being pretty flat, as has been for the past 4 years.

 

[AlmostRetired]

I am not sure what impact timeshare market dynamics have on it but if we rule this out for discussion sake, I think it both helps and hurts week ownership depending on the where and when you own. Points might hurt the value of weeks when MF for points to get in for that week is significantly less then the MF of the underlying week and will help the value of the week when the reverse is true. Let's use GO as an example I did not look it up but lets guestimate. The MF for the GO is 1500 no matter what the season. Say the winter it takes 1400 points to get in for a week. The cost of this is $840 in point MF (and a 14,000 investment). One might own that for free or a small cost because it has trade value within II and you just displaced the total cost of 14,000 for buying points. Lets look at the summer. Summer GO has a MF of 1500. The points to get in is say 5000. This has a 3000 MF for points and a 50,000 $ investment. I can see how this week would keep or increase its value for a 1500 MF. I have an enrolled Monarch summer week and a post 2010 summer week. They rent the same and trade the same. I believe there was no impact from the switch over to points. A winter owner may think differently.