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Myrtle Beach Usage

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Hi, all.

I’m pretty new in these forums so please tell me if this is in the wrong place for my post. I’m looking for some insight from seasoned TS people. I commented earlier tonight on a thread from 2010, but I wasn’t sure if that would bump it so people would see it or not, so I figured I’d try here too:

I’m looking to purchase and I’ve spent quite a bit of time researching, but because we want Ocean Blvd in value season (September) I have no idea if a 10 month booking window will be fine to just get the lowest MF on the market, or if I will really need to get a deed at Myrtle Beach/CWA to be able to have the 13 APR... if 10 months is a fine booking window for Ocean Blvd or the grove in value season, then I will get the lowest MF I can find (so far Bali for $4.3), but if I need the 13 APR then I have to look for the lowest Myrtle Beach there is or an basic CWA. I’m still new, and still learning, but I’ve seriously studied this stuff for hours and hours on end to learn everything I can before I purchase. The attached picture is currently what I’m juggling for options, anything with a MF higher than CWA gets chucked. I know we need at least 250/300k points for our travel needs; 120k of which is specifically for Myrtle Beach in September.

Before you tell me I should look at renting, we vacation 4 or so times a year, I have one year mapped out if I were to own 200k points, and I got 4 good vacations from it on our schedules with some off season and some high. We will use this for the next 20 or so years, so I’m positive owning is for us. We will maximize it, buy more later, and maximize it some more.

Before you tell me to look at other resort systems because I’m new; I did. I looked at several and hard compared the two I liked best. Wyndham won out for resale purposes and the amount of resorts in a driving distance from me. I have spreadsheets for days.

I’ve also read just about 100 TUG posts and thousands of comments on all of them. I came prepared.

So with all that said, can anyone chime in? I’ve been in my own head with all this, and even reading every TUG postthat I can, it’s a lot of information to sort out :ponder:

B13B1D2D-35D7-4E2D-9A03-8FF8B428B588.png
 

Richelle

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I’m going to repost what I put in the other thread.




You’re already way ahead of most people. It can be overwhelming. Value (sometimes called Quiet) season is the least busy times. Less demand. So the 10 month window will be more then enough to book value season. If you wanted Daytona Bike week, or Bonnet Creek in a four bedroom presidential over Christmas, if say get deeded points, or CWA if it’s a CWA resort and book 13 months out. You don’t need that with Value season.

Canterbury, Bali Hai (UDI only), Steamboat springs, Panama City and National Harbor are the lowest. National Harbor is getting an 8.57% maintenance fee increase next year thanks to some tax hikes that they are currently fighting. It’s at $4.60 per 1,000 starting in 2020. I cannot speak for the others. Have not gotten anything from Bali Hai yet. Bali Hai is an odd ball resort in that it has both UDI and converted fixed week contracts. So the maintenance fees there vary. The converted fixed weeks are higher but they are still considered low maintenance fee. There is a sticky thread for 2017 maintenance fees that has a spreadsheet that lists the maintenance fees for a lot of resorts. From there, you can deduce which are the lowest. Then look at the 2018 or 2019 thread to see if there are updated numbers.



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jwalk03

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You shouldn't have any trouble getting a MB reservation at 10 months in Value Season. Its really only the prime summer weeks that can be tough, but even those are typically available at 10 months for OB because of the high points cost the other MB locations typically go faster.
 
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"Value (sometimes called Quiet) season": So, the seasons in my book are Prime, High, Value, and Quiet. Quiet is all in Dec or January for most places, so I think Value is where I'll be searching to make vacations work.

"National Harbor is getting an 8.57% maintenance fee increase next year thanks to some tax hikes that they are currently fighting. It’s at $4.60 per 1,000 starting in 2020.": That explains why I've been seeing so many National Harbors being unloaded on eBay lol. Thank you for educating me on that!

"There is a sticky thread for 2017 maintenance fees that has a spreadsheet that lists the maintenance fees for a lot of resorts. From there, you can deduce which are the lowest. Then look at the 2018 or 2019 thread to see if there are updated numbers.": I have a 2019 thread from 2019 with the current rates, I got it from TUG somewhere and saved it in my multiple databases.

Thank you very much for your insight, we are very excited to start this journey. It is so hard to hold out knowing that I will find a better deal than what I'm seeing because we want to buy now knowing that the points won't be available to us until next Spring when all is said and done on transferring the deed; and it's also hard passing good deals in the $5 MF range, but I know better deals will come along less than $5 if I'm patient. Seeing as this is a very long commitment that we want to make with our investment, I'm holding out to find the best that I know I can in time. We're just so ready to start.
 

jwalk03

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The seasons vary widely by resorts, while Dec and Jan maybe quiet season some places it can be prime season some places as well. Week 52 particularly is prime season at a lot of resorts.
 
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The seasons vary widely by resorts, while Dec and Jan maybe quiet season some places it can be prime season some places as well. Week 52 particularly is prime season at a lot of resorts.

Lol, let me show you my masterpiece! This is every resort in reasonable driving distance from me, and every season, and with every week. The price points are just a reference for me to see the range from lowest price in lowest season to highest price in highest season; when I do my calculations I use the exact points from the book for the time and room I'm looking at. There's more on the sheet that I couldn't fit in my frame. My husband says that I'm too thorough, but I say there's no such thing.

Capture.JPG
 

Richelle

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"National Harbor is getting an 8.57% maintenance fee increase next year thanks to some tax hikes that they are currently fighting. It’s at $4.60 per 1,000 starting in 2020.": That explains why I've been seeing so many National Harbors being unloaded on eBay lol. Thank you for educating me on that!

I only see one Nation Harbor for sale on eBay and none sold recently. Am I overlooking it somewhere? Honestly, even if I bought that contract resale for $1, I still wouldn’t unload it because of that. It’s still one of the lowest in the system and still significantly cheaper then CWA.


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I only see one Nation Harbor for sale on eBay and none sold recently. Am I overlooking it somewhere? Honestly, even if I bought that contract resale for $1, I still wouldn’t unload it because of that. It’s still one of the lowest in the system and still significantly cheaper then CWA.


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I saw some last week, I have since deleted them from my spreadsheets. I'm sure the one that you're seeing is the one I saw yesterday for the 600k points with a very tempting MF. If I've calculated it correctly by my best ability, the current 4.85 would turn into 5.24 under the 8.57% increase, does that sound like I'm doing that correctly? (not calculating in the program fee, which I never do to make it easier and quicker on me. Though I know that I should). So even with the 8.57%, 5.24 would still be pretty low, putting the monthly fee at $262 not counting the program fee? Either way, I feel like that's far too many points for me, but I like doing the math.
 

Richelle

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I saw some last week, I have since deleted them from my spreadsheets. I'm sure the one that you're seeing is the one I saw yesterday for the 600k points with a very tempting MF. If I've calculated it correctly by my best ability, the current 4.85 would turn into 5.24 under the 8.57% increase, does that sound like I'm doing that correctly? (not calculating in the program fee, which I never do to make it easier and quicker on me. Though I know that I should). So even with the 8.57%, 5.24 would still be pretty low, putting the monthly fee at $262 not counting the program fee? Either way, I feel like that's far too many points for me, but I like doing the math.

It’s currently $4.24 per 1,000 not counting the program fee. It’s going up to $4.60 per 1,000 in 2020.

If you owned 600k National Harbor resale points (and had no other points), your 2020 maintenance fees will be approximately $3,108 a year or $259 a month.


I’m not sure what you saw last month, but if there was an auction for National Harbor points, it would show up under “completed” listings. It’s not there.

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It’s currently $4.24 per 1,000 not counting the program fee. It’s going up to $4.60 per 1,000 in 2020.

So why does eBay listings show a MF that's slightly off from what the standard should be?

For instance, that National Hills post right now for 626k lists a MF of $252.48, making it $4.84/1000.Why is it coming out $4.84 rather than your standard $4.24? I thought the MF varied from contract to contract regardless of location, within a range of course, rather than a set number, because even if I look at 3 of the exact same location, such as Grand Desert, they always come out slightly different fee/1000...I read somewhere that if it was converted from a fixed week to points, depending on that original week, the MF would vary, could that be the explanation?

Can you explain that part of it?
 

Richelle

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So why does eBay listings show a MF that's slightly off from what the standard should be?

For instance, that National Hills post right now for 626k lists a MF of $252.48, making it $4.84/1000.Why is it coming out $4.84 rather than your standard $4.24? I thought the MF varied from contract to contract regardless of location, within a range of course, rather than a set number, because even if I look at 3 of the exact same location, such as Grand Desert, they always come out slightly different fee/1000...I read somewhere that if it was converted from a fixed week to points, depending on that original week, the MF would vary, could that be the explanation?

Can you explain that part of it?

The sellers on eBay quote what the owner is paying. They don’t know anything about program fees, so they quote the whole thing. The program fee is rolled into the monthly payment that they are quoting. The owner is paying the 60 cent per 1,000 program fee.

Base Rate for National Harbor MF: $4.24 per 1000

Wyndham Program Fee: 60 cents per 1,000.

Total $4.84 cents per 1,000.

Converted fixed weeks do vary based on the underlying unit. Resorts that started as fixed weeks and have multiple buildings that where built in multiple phases will have maintenance fees that vary. Bali Hai is a prime example of that. National Harbor was never a fixed week resort, so you won’t find a converted fixed week contract.

Since the eBay sellers quote the entire payment, and don’t take out the program fee, it’s going to vary a lot of times because one owner may pay the minimum program fee of $155 if they have less then 259,000 total. I have multiple Bali Hai contracts where the base rate is $3.66 per 1,000. I have multiple contracts that bring me well over the 259,000 break even point, so I pay 60 cents per 1,000. So the total rate I pay is $4.26 per 1,000 on those Bali Hai contracts. However, if I sold it to someone who had no points, they would be paying the flat rate of $135 per 1,000. That works out to a $4.73 per 1,000 for the same contract. The minimum program fee makes the smaller contracts look like they have high maintenance fees.


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Since the eBay sellers quote the entire payment, and don’t take out the program fee, it’s going to vary a lot of times because one owner may pay the minimum program fee of $155 if they have less then 259,000 total. I have multiple Bali Hai contracts where the base rate is $3.66 per 1,000. I have multiple contracts that bring me well over the 259,000 break even point, so I pay 60 cents per 1,000. So the total rate I pay is $4.26 per 1,000 on those Bali Hai contracts. However, if I sold it to someone who had no points, they would be paying the flat rate of $135 per 1,000. That works out to a $4.73 per 1,000 for the same contract. The minimum program fee makes the smaller contracts look like they have high maintenance fees.


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So much great information here. I really thought it was $128 flat fee for the program fee, that's why I never added it, but that's great to know that for eBay posts, it's already in there for the base points. But, I suppose like you said, if the owners have more than one contract, that exceed the 259k, then their numbers will be different from mine and I need to recalculate what I thought would be my MF based on the eBay listings.

These are the types of things that you never see posted anywhere except TUG. This site it truly a godsend for me trying to thoroughly educate myself. Thank you!
 

dgalati

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The sellers on eBay quote what the owner is paying. They don’t know anything about program fees, so they quote the whole thing. The program fee is rolled into the monthly payment that they are quoting. The owner is paying the 60 cent per 1,000 program fee.

Base Rate for National Harbor MF: $4.24 per 1000

Wyndham Program Fee: 60 cents per 1,000.

Total $4.84 cents per 1,000.

Converted fixed weeks do vary based on the underlying unit. Resorts that started as fixed weeks and have multiple buildings that where built in multiple phases will have maintenance fees that vary. Bali Hai is a prime example of that. National Harbor was never a fixed week resort, so you won’t find a converted fixed week contract.

Since the eBay sellers quote the entire payment, and don’t take out the program fee, it’s going to vary a lot of times because one owner may pay the minimum program fee of $155 if they have less then 259,000 total. I have multiple Bali Hai contracts where the base rate is $3.66 per 1,000. I have multiple contracts that bring me well over the 259,000 break even point, so I pay 60 cents per 1,000. So the total rate I pay is $4.26 per 1,000 on those Bali Hai contracts. However, if I sold it to someone who had no points, they would be paying the flat rate of $135 per 1,000. That works out to a $4.73 per 1,000 for the same contract. The minimum program fee makes the smaller contracts look like they have high maintenance fees.


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The program fee for resale deeds is .58/1000
 

Richelle

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The program fee for resale deeds is .58/1000


I was explaining to her how she was coming up with $4.84 per 1,000. The answer was the owner was paying 60 cents per 1,000. I never said resale was 60 cents per 1,000.

Also, the program fee for resale only owners is $135 or 58 cents per 1,000, whichever is greater.



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dgalati

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I was explaining to her how she was coming up with $4.84 per 1,000. The answer was the owner was paying 60 cents per 1,000. I never said resale was 60 cents per 1,000.

Also, the program fee for resale only owners is $135 or 58 cents per 1,000, whichever is greater.



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Never could understand why resale was a couple cents less then developer bought?
 

Richelle

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Never could understand why resale was a couple cents less then developer bought?

It is not cheaper because it’s resale. It’s cheaper because they don’t get Plus Partners with their resale. The extra two cents per 1,000 is supposed to pay for that program. Not sure exactly how, but that’s how they portray it, when they say one rate is for members with Plus Partners and one rate is for members without Plus Partners.


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I
Lol, let me show you my masterpiece! This is every resort in reasonable driving distance from me, and every season, and with every week. The price points are just a reference for me to see the range from lowest price in lowest season to highest price in highest season; when I do my calculations I use the exact points from the book for the time and room I'm looking at. There's more on the sheet that I couldn't fit in my frame. My husband says that I'm too thorough, but I say there's no such thing.

View attachment 14823
I just love spreadsheet nerds! And spreadsheets! Thanks!
 

Richelle

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Thank you, I did think the .60/1000 was for all owners, not just developer owners. Not sure the .02 would make much of a difference for me though

The $20,000 you have to spend for the “privilege” of paying the extra 2 cents per 1,000, probably does. :)


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The $20,000 you have to spend for the “privilege” of paying the extra 2 cents per 1,000, probably does. :)


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Completely agree if I bought developer and not resale. If I plan on using RCI yearly and wanting daily rates instead of weekly, we’re probably going to buy in Partners Plus anyways.
 

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The $20,000 you have to spend for the “privilege” of paying the extra 2 cents per 1,000, probably does. :)
Good point. Its called privileges now.

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Lol, let me show you my masterpiece! This is every resort in reasonable driving distance from me, and every season, and with every week. The price points are just a reference for me to see the range from lowest price in lowest season to highest price in highest season; when I do my calculations I use the exact points from the book for the time and room I'm looking at. There's more on the sheet that I couldn't fit in my frame. My husband says that I'm too thorough, but I say there's no such thing.

View attachment 14823

Great work on that spreadsheet!
I bought 238k resale last year on ebay at Kingsgate (596 bucks). My TOTAL monthly cost is 91./mo On that 238k, I had 5 nights Nashville, 7 nights Ocean walk Daytona, 6 nights Cypress Palms Orlando and 6 nights Kingsgate. 600k points is a HUGE amount to me...at least at this time. I "DID" buy another 126k Kingsgate (255 bucks) on ebay in August that has not completed yet. If your flexible, you can get a LOT of use out of 200-300k points. Of course NONE of the RESALE points will EVER count TOWARDS any level of VIP status.
Bob
 
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Great work on that spreadsheet!
I bought 238k resale last year on ebay at Kingsgate (596 bucks). My TOTAL monthly cost is 91./mo

Yea, the one that I’m currently looking at now is Kingsgate for 238k, estimated MF of $93. For that amount of points we have 4 vacations planned for 16 days total. Could get more for my points if I moved things around a bit more, or went all one bedrooms instead of two, but it’s good. That’s still a good amount of quality vacation days for $1115+ a in MF and random booking fees.
 
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The sellers on eBay quote what the owner is paying. They don’t know anything about program fees, so they quote the whole thing. So the total rate I pay is $4.26 per 1,000 on those Bali Hai contracts. However, if I sold it to someone who had no points, they would be paying the flat rate of $135 per 1,000. That works out to a $4.73 per 1,000 for the same contract. The minimum program fee makes the smaller contracts look like they have high maintenance fees.

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Okay, so that thinking really intrigued me, and made me wonder just how off I am with thinking I know what my MF would be by going off of what is posted in the various selling posts, rather than calculating in the program fee based off of the true base MF and points for sale. Naturally, I started running some scenarios to see how far off I was... Oh goodness do those program fees made a difference from what is posted, what you'd owe if you only own less than the 259k breaking point, and what it would be if you owned more than the breaking point.

If anyone else is interested, here is my work up for a few contracts that I was tracking in various market places by what they had posted were the MFs, what the MF (with PF added) would be if you owed < 259k, and what the program fee would be if you owned >259k:

Capture.JPG


If you do the math, based solely on owning 300k points at the lowest MF shown (4.24) or the highest (7.17) the difference comes out to $73 a month more for the higher MF contract, which equates to $879 a year, $4,395 in 5 years, and $13,185 in 15 years if you hang on to them.

I feel at peace finally knowing the math lol.
 
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