The "war" between the Timeshare Industry and Exit Companies

[TUGBrian]

a solid read...hard to back a dog in this fight when there is so much blame to go around and both sides are guilty of doing their best to extract as much money as possible from owners.

https://stockdailydish.com/the-time...nies-that-say-they-can-cancel-your-timeshare/

here is an updated link to use:

https://dentondaily.com/the-timesha...nies-that-say-they-can-cancel-your-timeshare/

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Nice quote @TUGBrian Thanks for sharing.

I find it interesting (and somewhat ironic) that the companies with some of the highest pressure tactics in the industry, namely Diamond and Wyndham, are fighting the exit companies the most. It is indeed a cesspool.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

a solid read...hard to back a dog in this fight when there is so much blame to go around and both sides are guilty of doing their best to extract as much money as possible from owners.

https://stockdailydish.com/the-time...nies-that-say-they-can-cancel-your-timeshare/

Brian;

Thanks for posting this. I am sure search engines will find this article when consumers do their research! And I guess I should say "if they do their research".




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[Fredflintstone]

Unfortunately, this goes to show that Owners are simply pawns in a con game. They get sucked in, used and then spit out.

It reminds me of the Big City Street thugs fighting to gain control of the drug fiends.

Sad.

I think the concept of timeshare is a good one. Sadly, somewhere along the line greed has resulted in the current mess. I think all it would take is a new player who goes back to thinking Owners deserve to be treated honestly and with respect. The grassroots of the timeshare concept would make the system work for everyone.

The good things happening are more and more States are enacting laws to force a fair situation and Courts punishing wrongdoers with large cash judgements. Tools like non judicial, anti deficiency foreclosures, recession periods, standards of fair contract development, firmer misrepresentation statues, owners winning lawsuits, and lately, resorts being questioned in Court on their Maintenance Fee costs and ordered to only charge ACTUAL costs per unit will gradually make the entire industry better for everyone.

I do applaud the TS industry for dealing with cancelation firms as I really don’t see them as the answer for Owners either.

The thing I would definitely applaud is the requirement of buyer and seller lawyer involvement to ensure all parties are clear in terms. Ridding the back room sign offs will solve a whole host of questionable practices on the sales floor in the first place.




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[T-Dot-Traveller]

The interesting number - 17,000 take backs via Ovations .
Ovations is 4 years old .

I believe Wyndham has about 500,000 owners / based on reading TUG .
So my take is that : 1% or less of ownerships are given back per year .

Since Ovations requires that the contract be fully paid off - it would be interesting to know what percentage of the total are fully paid for .

Any Wyndham owners with info ?

 

[theo]

The interesting number - 17,000 take backs via Ovations .
Ovations is 4 years old .

I believe that Wyndham had already been (quietly) accepting "deedbacks" even before the formal adoption of their "Ovations" program in December, 2015.

It would be interesting to know whether or not the 17,000 deedbacks figure you've cited includes "pre-Ovations" deedbacks, or just those deedbacks accepted by Wyndham since the public acknowledgement / naming / announcement of their Ovations deedback program in December, 2015.

I clearly recall reading that there were nearly 30,000 Ovations applications submitted in just the first year or so of Wyndham's open announcement of "Ovations". No idea how many more deedback applications have been submitted since then, but it would certainly be interesting to know the actual total deedback application figures to date, as well as the deedback acceptance vs. deedback rejection figures, as apparently not everything (even if paid off and current on fees) is accepted for "deedback".

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The interesting number - 17,000 take backs via Ovations .
Ovations is 4 years old .

I believe Wyndham has about 500,000 owners / based on reading TUG .
So my take is that : 1% or less of ownerships are given back per year .

Since Ovations requires that the contract be fully paid off - it would be interesting to know what percentage of the total are fully paid for .

Any Wyndham owners with info ?

Another argument to NEVER buy from the developer and pay for a TS with financing. Better to go resale, pay less with cash so you avoid financing to avoid such hassles.

The problem is the people who typically finance are the ones who can least afford a timeshare. Life happens and then they are forced to walk.

There is blood on the developers' hands for these defaults. Developer shouldn't have approved such buyers in the first place for the mortgage because these people would not qualify if a bona fide mortgage company was involved. This is why many of the developers offer their own financing. They know they can qualify people who would not normally qualify, then with salaried lawyers on staff they simply take back the timeshare into inventory and write off the loan. In the meantime, they reap all kinds of fees and 18% interest and this boosts their topline revenue even if the buyer never uses the unit, pays for a few months or even years. It's pure profit. The cost of foreclosure is built into their business model,

The problem occurs for the developer when new sales decline because word gets out about negative experiences of prior buyers. I believe this is why Diamond has experienced a decline of new sales to only 25% recently. Compare this to MVC, DVC, and HGVC who treat their buyers/owners more fairly and the number hovers in the 40 - 50% range or more.

So if Diamond doesn't have new sales revenue coming in, they have no other choice but to squeeze their existing owners via higher MF and punitive practices on deedbacks to keep the MFs and fees to existing owners rolling in to boost revenue. The downward spiral continues. Perhaps if they treated their owners more kindly and stopped gouging them on MF that don't reflect the real cost to run the property, this percentage would increase...

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

[QUOTE="CalGalTraveler, post: 2360052

The problem occurs for the developer when the inbound sales decline due to negative experiences of prior buyers is shared and word gets out. I believe this is why Diamond has experienced a decline of new sales to only 25% recently. Compare this to MVC, DVC, and HGVC who treat their buyers/owners more fairly and the number hovers in the 40 - 50% range or above.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________




Another problem occurs for the developer when the bottom drops out of the market such as 2007, and the sales of any of their inventory basically comes to a halt. Not only do they have to deal with the unsold newly built units, but all the additional units which are returned via take backs and defaults........




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[dgalati]

a solid read...hard to back a dog in this fight when there is so much blame to go around and both sides are guilty of doing their best to extract as much money as possible from owners.

https://stockdailydish.com/the-time...nies-that-say-they-can-cancel-your-timeshare/

You can say that again. To many sharks in the water to even think about swimming.

 

[dgalati]

a solid read...hard to back a dog in this fight when there is so much blame to go around and both sides are guilty of doing their best to extract as much money as possible from owners.

https://stockdailydish.com/the-time...nies-that-say-they-can-cancel-your-timeshare/

The statement below from the article is like the pot calling the kettle black.

In the Wyndham suit filed last week, the timeshare giant claims Timeshare Exit Team deceives “hundreds of Wyndham Owners into knowingly or unknowingly paying Defendants.

 

[pedro47]

a solid read...hard to back a dog in this fight when there is so much blame to go around and both sides are guilty of doing their best to extract as much money as possible from owners.

https://stockdailydish.com/the-time...nies-that-say-they-can-cancel-your-timeshare/

IMHO, you are right on point Brian, both sides needs to clean up their act. The losers are the ts owners and new consumer buyers. No one cares that consumers are cheated out of their hard earn money ever day of the week.

The only thing that the two (2) parties cared about is how much can they can legal steal & earn from the uneducated consumers IMO?

 

[dgalati]

IMHO, you are right on point Brian, both sides needs to clean up their act. The losers are the ts owners and new consumer buyers. No one cares that consumers are cheated out of their hard earn money ever day of the week.

The only thing that the two (2) parties cared about is how much can they can legal steal & earn from the uneducated consumers IMO?

Both are preying on the uninformed. They get you coming (buying) and going (selling). The industry as a whole is like swimming in Shark infested waters.

 

[DannyTS]

after listening to the pitch of a timeshare exit company (with no intention to get out actually) I am now siding with the developers in this fight. Do the timeshare companies sell an overpriced product using half true statements? Absolutely! But at least there is something of value in what they do afterwards and I personally believe they do a decent job in the long run. The exit companies on the other hand perform no valuable service, they impact negatively the resale market and create even more problems to the owners they claim to help.

 

[dayooper]

Both are preying on the uninformed. They get you coming (buying) and going (selling). The industry as a whole is like swimming in Shark infested waters.

That would make TUG the shark proof dive cage and you are safe as long as you stay in the cage (not venture outside TUG advice).

 

[dgalati]

That would make TUG the shark proof dive cage and you are safe as long as you stay in the cage (not venture outside TUG advice).

Reach out and pet that shark on the nose.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Developers are way behind in stopping these companies. They could have allowed owners out without all of the frustration. How long have we warned about the postcard companies, and now the commercials on TV, radio and the internet? We have been talking about the problem forever. But it has allowed me to buy a lot of cheap timeshares, and so I am grateful for that. When Vistana asks me why I own so many, I am like, "They were free on ebay." They answer, "Really? Free?"

 

[Fredflintstone]

[QUOTE="CalGalTraveler, post: 2360052

The problem occurs for the developer when the inbound sales decline due to negative experiences of prior buyers is shared and word gets out. I believe this is why Diamond has experienced a decline of new sales to only 25% recently. Compare this to MVC, DVC, and HGVC who treat their buyers/owners more fairly and the number hovers in the 40 - 50% range or above.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________




Another problem occurs for the developer when the bottom drops out of the market such as 2007, and the sales of any of their inventory basically comes to a halt. Not only do they have to deal with the unsold newly built units, but all the additional units which are returned via take backs and defaults........




.

True.

Also, TS s are notorious for being difficult to sell even in good times. Bad economy times do magnify the problem.


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[Fredflintstone]

Personally, I think the developer should just come clean on what they are selling and the future costs.

For example, instead of using the words Maintenance Fee (which implies future billings are strictly for upkeep of a persons share of ownership), they should use something like Prepaid accommodations at Owners discounted rates. That way, when they charge 1500 a year plus for a week, they are open that some charges are NOT maintenance but profit related.

I have no problem with anyone making profits as long as they call it for what it is. The term maintenance implies only upkeep which is just not entirely true.

Also, they should disclose openly that buying a timeshare could mean difficulty exiting and rising costs. Better yet, developers develop a market to sell the timeshare like a used car dealer. People who get into a timeshare would clearly know that If they choose to sell, it would be depreciated just like a car.

Then folks can truly make an informed choice and there would not be any need for Exit companies. Yes, the sales market would be harder but those who choose the timeshare lifestyle would have no one to point fingers at in the future.

I believe coming clean at the get go would greatly improve timeshare reputations and cause better resale.


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[LannyPC]

Personally, I think the developer should just come clean on what they are selling and the future costs.

Also, they should disclose openly that buying a timeshare could mean difficulty exiting and rising costs. Better yet, developers develop a market to sell the timeshare like a used car dealer. People who get into a timeshare would clearly know that If they choose to sell, it would be depreciated just like a car.

While I agree with what you are saying, and I am not defending or condoning the sales methods, would you buy at one of those presentations if the sales people did what you suggested? Remember, the purpose of the sales presentation is to sell people overpriced timeshares, not to educate people about them.

 

[Fredflintstone]

While I agree with what you are saying, and I am not defending or condoning the sales methods, would you buy at one of those presentations if the sales people did what you suggested? Remember, the purpose of the sales presentation is to sell people overpriced timeshares, not to educate people about them.

I might and true if the numbers made sense. If they were sold at a rate that makes sense, I think a lot of people would buy in and profits would still be made. Maybe the profits would be lower each sale BUT the sales rate would definitely improve which increases profits in the end.

Right now, all that’s happening is sales are hard slugging because of inflated costs and questionable reputations. At least if they were honest, they wouldn’t have large defaults, Exit companies nipping on their heels, poor resale (which they could profit from too if they want), lawsuits, slimy reputation, high recession, etc.

My dad always said, “Good businesses practices that offer value yields good profits. Slimy business practices yields disaster.”


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[e.bram]

From my ponit of view the main problem is the seasonal difference which effects the demand and therefore the demand and value of the week, yet everyone pays the same MF.
Yet the sales team indicates that every buyer can access the PRIME weeks.

 

[bbodb1]

@TUGBrian - might want to check the link in the OP as it seems inaccurate...

 

[Larry M]

a solid read...hard to back a dog in this fight when there is so much blame to go around and both sides are guilty of doing their best to extract as much money as possible from owners.

https://stockdailydish.com/the-time...nies-that-say-they-can-cancel-your-timeshare/

Brian, the link above is their front page which changes daily, not a permalink.

Here is a permanent link that appears to be the same article, published in...wait for it...Orlando!
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-bz-timeshare-exit-company-20181219-story.html

 

[LannyPC]

a solid read...hard to back a dog in this fight

It's kind of like watching a sports match between two teams you hate. The bad news is that one team is going to win. The good news is that one has to lose.

 

[LannyPC]

Yet the sales team indicates that...

The sales team indicate a lot of things that are inaccurate.