[ 2012 ] How we FINALLY got rid of our timeshare

[timeos2]

If the unit is rented, the delinquent owners has to get credit for the rental less reasonable fees.

That is true, I mentioned it in the other post. It seldom amounts to anywhere close to the total due as the commission and other costs are first subtracted and any late fees and interest are added. But it helps. Of course the use is also gone for that year even if the balance is paid and it must be if the NEXT year is paid for use (total of the next years fees plus the previous balance from the prior year).

 

[Beefnot]

Have your Internet searches exposed you to the fact that if an Association sells more than 50 weeks in a year they are required to file a full sales disclosure? That is the 400+ page document that Developers sweat over and is not inexpensive to create and file. If an Association sells 50 weeks or more they effectively become a developer and take on all sorts of new (and likely unwanted not to mention costly) obligations.

Nothing is ever as easy as an outside view makes it appear. And of course we all know that if it's on the Internet it is a verified fact. Sadly the real world demands that Associations, Developers and you and I abide by the legal requirements and not the nirvana the Internet and other sources may envision. Until that changes the true facts are that many of the proposed "solutions" to the minority of owners who want to be released without repercussions from a contract they willingly accepted and enjoyed simply cannot be utilized. Feel free to propose changes to the laws and regulations so that they can be - it may be a slight bit of uphill climb to achieve. Good luck.

The issue is with the conventional wisdom of what is legal vs. what's not. Like the one that if an HOA allows one person to do a deedback, they have to allow everyone to deedback. Which is not true.

 

[timeos2]

The issue is with the conventional wisdom of what is legal vs. what's not. Like the one that if an HOA allows one person to do a deedback, they have to allow everyone to deedback. Which is not true.

What parts of "no owner or group of owners may be offered special consideration", any "offer made must be equal value for all" and "all owners must be treated equally"- common to both State rules & regs and resort documents worldwide - makes you think the rules of equal treatment to all (ie an offer to one owner must be also given to all) doesn't apply? It is documented in many places*. Where is the documented proof that it isn't so?

*May I suggest you read the excellent guide to HOA's by Gary & Ryan Poliakoff ,"New Neighborhoods", who have decades of condo & timeshare experience and are principals at Becker & Poliakoff who successfully fought Sunterra among others. They discuss the principals and rights/obligations of both Associations and owners.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/new-neighborhoods-ryan-poliakoff/1110907074
You'll find it an easy read vs the dry documents legally supplied & very clear on the items we're speaking about. Once you have the facts come back with some workable ideas vs some that seem good but cannot be done legally.

 

[Beefnot]

The same criteria must be made available to all, not necessarily the same offer. If the HOA articulates the circumstances under which it will accept a deedback, then all owners who meet that criteria would be eligible. And the HOA need not market such programs, only honor upon request and satisfaction of eligibility criteria.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Eligibility Criteria, Shmellajabillity Criteria.

The same criteria must be made available to all, not necessarily the same offer. If the HOA articulates the circumstances under which it will accept a deedback, then all owners who meet that criteria would be eligible. And the HOA need not market such programs, only honor upon request and satisfaction of eligibility criteria.

If by "eligibility criteria" you mean sad story, then that's a non-starter.

It's not the HOA's place to judge who's broke & who's just bored.

That's what bankruptcy court is for.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Beefnot]

If by "eligibility criteria" you mean sad story, then that's a non-starter.

It's not the HOA's place to judge who's broke & who's just bored.

That's what bankruptcy court is for.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Maybe so, but the HOA can institute "sad story" criteria if it so chooses.

 

[ullmanesq]

The easy answer is to take the timeshare OUT of the trust and revert it to the individual name. In the past when there was some actual value, it was an 'asset' and you would want it in the revocable trust. Today..might be much much easier to take it out, and upon the death, it's a probate asset, then, the Executor can contact the company as I stated in my earlier post. Hope that helps.

 

[timeos2]

The same criteria must be made available to all, not necessarily the same offer. If the HOA articulates the circumstances under which it will accept a deedback, then all owners who meet that criteria would be eligible. And the HOA need not market such programs, only honor upon request and satisfaction of eligibility criteria.

The criteria is very clear. IF the owner is delinquent, won't pay and goes to foreclosure after all efforts to collect fail then, and only then, will a request to be reviewed for deed back in lieu of foreclosure & possibly be offered to save the cost of that foreclosure. Prior to that it is far too easy for any owner to claim "hardship" when in fact it is a merely desire to be out of what now is a bad choice they made with no harm to themselves but plenty to the Association of paying owners.

See - no question & very easy to meet if that is your desire. No cost to the Association and the unit can be legally rented in the interim. There IS a system, it works and all this talk of need to change is so much hot air. If your resort doesn't like that system you the owners can ask that they take weeks back at will IF you understand that each one taken and not immediately sold or rented will go directly to your annual fee. I know of no resort Association that has that mandate from the owners. Do you?

 

[Beefnot]

If your resort doesn't like that system you the owners can ask that they take weeks back at will IF you understand that each one taken and not immediately sold or rented will go directly to your annual fee. I know of no resort Association that has that mandate from the owners. Do you?

No, although that's not saying much. I don't even know much, if anything, about my own HOAs, let alone others. As for me, I would vote for it, if my vote was necessary. Set a high bar for hardship criteria, and those that meet it get the golden ticket rather than the HOA going through the expense and headache of foreclosure. And if some folks who can afford just want out, play the role of PCC and require 2-3 years MFs to take it back. We could get it sold by then.

 

[timeos2]

No, although that's not saying much. I don't even know much, if anything, about my own HOAs, let alone others. As for me, I would vote for it, if my vote was necessary. Set a high bar for hardship criteria, and those that meet it get the golden ticket rather than the HOA going through the expense and headache of foreclosure. And if some folks who can afford just want out, play the role of PCC and require 2-3 years MFs to take it back. We could get it sold by then.

The current system does just that. Avoids (usually) the cost of foreclosure & assures that the owner really cannot or will not pay. It does put the onus on the owner as it should be. They could likely give it away with a bit of effort but when they see an easier way they would take it. This way it isn't too easy but achieves the goal.

 

[LannyPC]

Set a high bar for hardship criteria, and those that meet it get the golden ticket rather than the HOA going through the expense and headache of foreclosure. And if some folks who can afford just want out, play the role of PCC and require 2-3 years MFs to take it back. We could get it sold by then.

How would you (in your perfect world) "set [the]...bar"? If an owner wanted to deed back a property would (s)he have to fill out a questionnaire? If so, how would the HOA know that this owner is not fudging the numbers? Where would you draw the line at "Yes, yours qualifies for a free deedback" and "No, you don't qualify for the free, you have to pay 2 or 3 years' MFs"?

 

[Beefnot]

How would you (in your perfect world) "set [the]...bar"? If an owner wanted to deed back a property would (s)he have to fill out a questionnaire? If so, how would the HOA know that this owner is not fudging the numbers? Where would you draw the line at "Yes, yours qualifies for a free deedback" and "No, you don't qualify for the free, you have to pay 2 or 3 years' MFs"?

I would borrow from the criteria that the banks are using today for approving modifications and short sales. Hardship letter, bank statements, credit report, etc. There would be incremental planning, cost and effort involved on the part of HOAs to contract this into the collections process, but on the balance it could be much less costly than offering no alternatives but foreclosure. And if one didn't qualify for a hardship deedback, that is the line right there.

 

[gregb669]

Time share sold with ease

Anyone looking to sell their time share in Florida should check out the time share store in the Orlando area. I posted my Disney points for sale with them and the time share was sold the following day. They charged me 10% on the sale and even got me the years dues back that I paid. It took about 3 weeks to close and get paid and I am in Spain. They are the real deal with no monies up front at all. You just need to have some docs notarized once they find a buyer and you are all set. This company should also be great if you are looking to buy a time share too.

 

[csxjohn]

Anyone looking to sell their time share in Florida should check out the time share store in the Orlando area. I posted my Disney points for sale with them and the time share was sold the following day. They charged me 10% on the sale and even got me the years dues back that I paid. It took about 3 weeks to close and get paid and I am in Spain. They are the real deal with no monies up front at all. You just need to have some docs notarized once they find a buyer and you are all set. This company should also be great if you are looking to buy a time share too.

This company will not work for everyone.

They are very selective and only deal in the top end resorts. I'm glad they sold your unit quickly but they won't talk to you if you have a unit in other than a high end property. I called them about Alhambra at Poinciana which is a very nice and well kept property but not something they will handle.

 

[gregb669]

gregb

The first mistake people buying time shares make is buying a lower end property with a fixed week. I realize that most people don't consider selling their time share when buying but if they did then they would buy a property the would be easier to sell one day and with a floating week instead of a fixed one. I knew when I bought at Disney over 20 years ago that I would eventually sell it after my kids grew up. Buying at Disney really paid off and I even got back what I paid excluding the maintenance costs. I guess I am one of the lucky ones.

 

[bogey21]

The first mistake people buying time shares make is buying a lower end property with a fixed week.

Just the opposite. My first mistake was buying 4 Marriott Weeks of which 3 were floating. Fortunately I was able to get out while the getting was good (many years ago) and actually turned a profit when selling. I then bought only Fixed Weeks at carefully selected "lower end" HOA controlled Resorts. Over time I probably owned 10 or 12 such Weeks (although not all at the same time). When I divested these "lower end properties with a fixed week" I found my losses easy to digest. I think my biggest loss was about $600. All I can say is try selling a $25,000 "Chain" Floating Week for a $600 loss in today's market.

George

 

[bogey21]

And if some folks who can afford just want out, play the role of PCC and require 2-3 years MFs to take it back. We could get it sold by then.

I agree if it is a "dog" Week. On the other hand if the Week being deeded back is desirable Resort, prime season, prime Unit, etc. and the HOA can easily find a new owner (some willing to pay for the Week), they should accept a Deed Back with a minimal administrative charge. I deeded back 4 such Weeks and I'm certain that the HOAs, all of which had active Marketing programs, were able to find new Owners for them rather easily.

George

 

[theo]

An opposing view...

The first mistake people buying time shares make is buying a lower end property with a fixed week. I realize that most people don't consider selling their time share when buying but if they did then they would buy a property that would be easier to sell one day and with a floating week instead of a fixed one. <snip>

I must respectfully disagree with the above cited logic and conclusions.

A desirable fixed week, even at a "lower end" property can always be sold or otherwise transferred with relative ease --- and sometimes at a slight profit, even in a soft market (assuming that the exisiting ownership was acquired resale and not via developer-direct purchase, of course). Even in the worst case scenario (as per George's input above), a deedback of a decent fixed week to the HOA is often readily accepted. I also know (and knew when I purchased them, resale) that my weeks could always be sold at break even (or better) pricing.

Additionally, many floating week ownerships come with onerous reservation restrictions which devalue them considerably. In coastal SW Florida, for example, I own a number of consecutive fixed "Snowbird" weeks at so-called "lower end" resorts, whereas "floating" week ownerships there are entirely "blacked out" of the reservation process from about weeks 5-15, inclusive. In essence, "floating" week owners there have exactly zero chance of ever reserving a desirable winter week. If "floating" always meant weeks 1-52, your point might well have more validity --- but that just ain't how it is with many "floating" week ownerships.

In short, there are very few "one size fits all" generalizations which are universally accurate in the strange and wondrous world of timeshares...

 

[Bwolf]

I must respectfully disagree with the above cited logic and conclusions.

A desirable fixed week, even at a "lower end" property can always be sold or otherwise transferred with relative ease --- and sometimes at a slight profit, even in a soft market (assuming that the exisiting ownership was acquired resale and not via developer-direct purchase, of course). Even in the worst case scenario (as per George's input above), a deedback of a decent fixed week to the HOA is often readily accepted. I also know (and knew when I purchased them, resale) that my weeks could always be sold at break even (or better) pricing.

Additionally, many floating week ownerships come with onerous reservation restrictions which devalue them considerably. In coastal SW Florida, for example, I own a number of consecutive fixed "Snowbird" weeks at so-called "lower end" resorts, whereas "floating" week ownerships there are entirely "blacked out" of the reservation process from about weeks 5-15, inclusive. In essence, "floating" week owners there have exactly zero chance of ever reserving a desirable winter week. If "floating" always meant weeks 1-52, your point might well have more validity --- but that just ain't how it is with many "floating" week ownerships.

In short, there are very few "one size fits all" generalizations which are universally accurate in the strange and wondrous world of timeshares...

Ain't that the truth. I really love the "fixed-weeks are worthless" crowd. Also, the "small timeshares with HOAs are worthless" group.

 

[Beefnot]

Ain't that the truth. I really love the "fixed-weeks are worthless" crowd. Also, the "small timeshares with HOAs are worthless" group.

Add to that: "Only buy where you want to vacation."

 

[pacodemountainside]

I would borrow from the criteria that the banks are using today for approving modifications and short sales. Hardship letter, bank statements, credit report, etc. There would be incremental planning, cost and effort involved on the part of HOAs to contract this into the collections process, but on the balance it could be much less costly than offering no alternatives but foreclosure. And if one didn't qualify for a hardship deed back, that is the line right there.

Jim:

With you all the way.

Get the feeling a lot of "Devil Advocates"!

Per above, objective criteria can be established and occasionally some subjectively will enter in. That is why we have appeals Courts and Supreme Court. Impossible to cover all bases!

If buyers remorse simply harshly enforce collection terms.

If Joe Six Pack who should never have bought in first place is behind on rent, wages are being garnished, etc. will just pay MF current, bite the bullet.

If someone has decided they will not pay PCC guy a couple grand and will take hit on credit why not take for two years MF.

Maybe I am over simplifying, but if one donates to Senior Adviser resort is virtually guaranteed three year loss of MF and $1K+ to do quiet title search and get a valid deed.

Alternatively, they take a deed today and tomorrow they can rent and cover MF. Out of pocket cost is negligible. Then put on bulletin board, notify other owners, cut a deal with Wyndham sales, have a raffle, instead of giving employee of month cash, let individual and friend spend a couple nights, catch up on heavy unit maintenance, etc.

Think out of the box, get out of the box, sell the box, put a salesperson in the box!

 

[csxjohn]

...Alternatively, they take a deed today and tomorrow they can rent and cover MF...

I wouldn't be too sure about that. If the weeks could be rented that easily then it should follow that the weeks could be given away easily. I mean, if there is enough demand for a resort to enable them to rent out every unit they hold, there should be people waiting in line to take over the ownership.

I do agree that some creative ideas need to be used to get the deeds into the hands of willing owners.

 

[Rent_Share]

If the MF's aren't paid they can suspend the owners usage and rent it regardless of title status

 

[pacodemountainside]

Was obviously taking poetic license as it would take a few days to complete paperwork.

However, with Wyndham UDI Points there is 13 month ARP at resort and they could easily reserve best of best weeks.

A third party would have to pay say $500 closing fee plus $299 transfer fee which they would have to recover plus make a reasonable profit for their good and valuable time.

Resort/reservations can freeze account, but governing documents and ultimately state laws would apply to seizer of ones property and renting out. Just like credit card companies can shut off credit, but they cannot send goons to take TV set on credit card! Rent_Share would be interested in seeing your documents.

Tenants must be served three day notice and evicted by sheriff.

Home owners must be formally foreclosed on and evicted.

 

[timeos2]

If the MF's aren't paid they can suspend the owners usage and rent it regardless of title status

Too many if the "should just take it back" believers want to ignore this simple fact. Approximately 30 days after it goes delinquent it can be rented - the Association does not need title (Or owner permission) to do so. And they can also demand the fees through collections & should at the same time.