[ 2012 ] How we FINALLY got rid of our timeshare

[timeos2]

Was obviously taking poetic license as it would take a few days to complete paperwork.

However, with Wyndham UDI Points there is 13 month ARP at resort and they could easily reserve best of best weeks.

A third party would have to pay say $500 closing fee plus $299 transfer fee which they would have to recover plus make a reasonable profit for their good and valuable time.

Resort/reservations can freeze account, but governing documents and ultimately state laws would apply to seizer of ones property and renting out. Just like credit card companies can shut off credit, but they cannot send goons to take TV set on credit card! Rent_Share would be interested in seeing your documents.

Tenants must be served three day notice and evicted by sheriff.

Home owners must be formally foreclosed on and evicted.

You do not understand the law & thus your statements are incorrect.

 

[pacodemountainside]

No disagreement that creditor can cut one off if they do not pay bills when due.

However, would like to see TS governing documents for Colorado and a couple other states that have been upheld by Court of Law that ones free and clear property can be seized and occupied by creditor or assigns with out due process!

 

[timeos2]

It is standard language in timeshare law that owners can blocked out & property rented with notice. The notice can be, and usually is, in the billing notice. That's it. Nothing more required. Read the law(s) don't assume it's like a home or apartment - it isn't. It was court tested & upheld decades ago.

 

[e.bram]

John:
Could you cite the case(s) you are referring to.

 

[timeos2]

John:
Could you cite the case(s) you are referring to.

For Florida - and many other States with significant timeshare presence - it is in the State Statutes for Timeshares:

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/721.13

Specifically:

"(f)1. Provided that the managing entity has properly and timely given notice to a delinquent purchaser pursuant to paragraph (b) and to any affiliated exchange program pursuant to paragraph (c), the managing entity may give further notice to the delinquent purchaser that it may rent the delinquent purchaser’s timeshare period, or any use rights appurtenant thereto, and will apply the proceeds of such rental, net of any rental commissions, cleaning charges, travel agent commissions, or any other commercially reasonable charges reasonably and usually incurred by the managing entity in securing rentals, to the delinquent purchaser’s account. Such further notice of intent to rent must be given at least 30 days prior to the first day of the purchaser’s use period, and must be delivered to the purchaser in the manner required for notices under paragraph (b). A managing entity may make a reasonable determination regarding the priority of rentals of timeshare periods to be rented pursuant to this paragraph and, in the event that the delinquent purchaser of a timeshare period rented pursuant to this paragraph cannot be specifically determined due to the structure of the timeshare plan, may allocate such net rental proceeds by the managing entity in any reasonable manner.
2. The notice of intent to rent, which may be included in the notice required by paragraph (b), must state in conspicuous type that:a. The managing entity’s efforts to secure a rental will not commence on a date earlier than 10 days after the date of the notice of intent to rent.
b. Unless the purchaser satisfies the delinquency in full, or unless the purchaser produces satisfactory evidence that the delinquency does not exist pursuant to paragraph (b), the purchaser will be bound by the terms of any rental contract entered into by the managing entity with respect to the purchaser’s timeshare period or appurtenant use rights.
c. The purchaser will remain liable for any difference between the amount of the delinquency and the net amount produced by the rental contract and applied against the delinquency pursuant to this paragraph, and the managing entity shall not be required to provide any further notice to the purchaser regarding any residual delinquency pursuant to this paragraph.

3. In securing a rental pursuant to this paragraph, the managing entity shall not be required to obtain the highest nightly rental rate available, nor any particular rental rate, and the managing entity shall not be required to rent the entire timeshare period; however, the managing entity must use reasonable efforts to secure a rental that is commensurate with other rentals of similar timeshare periods or use rights generally secured at that time. Alternatively, the managing entity may rent such units at a bulk rate that is below the rate described above but not less than $200 per week, which amount may be prorated for daily rentals.

(g) A managing entity shall have breached its fiduciary duty described in subsection (2) in the event it enforces the denial of use pursuant to paragraph (b) against any one purchaser or group of purchasers without similarly enforcing it against all purchasers, including all developers and owners of the underlying fee or underlying personal property; however, a managing entity shall not be required to solicit rentals pursuant to paragraph (f) for every delinquent purchaser. A managing entity shall also have breached its fiduciary duty in the event an error in the books and records of the timeshare plan results in a denial of use pursuant to this subsection of any purchaser who is not, in fact, delinquent. In addition to any remedies otherwise available to purchasers of the timeshare plan arising from such breaches of fiduciary duty, such breach shall also constitute a violation of this chapter. In addition, any purchaser receiving a notice of delinquency pursuant to paragraph (b), or any third party claiming under such purchaser pursuant to paragraph (b), may immediately bring an action for injunctive or declaratory relief against the managing entity seeking to have the notice invalidated on the grounds that the purchaser is not, in fact, delinquent, that the managing entity failed to follow the procedures prescribed by this section, or on any other available grounds. The prevailing party in any such action shall be entitled to recover his or her reasonable attorney’s fees from the losing party."

If you got through all that note the reference to the requirement that all owners be treated the same. That type of requirement is restated throughout the statute and is why if an offer is made to one owner to take a deed back it must, to be within the law, also be offered to all on equal terms. It cannot be selective or only a "chosen few" or the Association may find they are in legal trouble.

It was tested long ago and stood up to challenge.

 

[pacodemountainside]

No disagreement that creditor can cut one off if they do not pay bills when due.

However, would like to see TS governing documents for Colorado and a couple other states that have been upheld by Court of Law that ones free and clear property can be seized and occupied by creditor or assigns ***** with out due process******!

Thank you for confirming the US Constitution is still in full force and effect.

Quoting from the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution: "Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law".


I clearly stated there are specific legal procedures for evicting tenants, foreclosing on a house or condo
and you have confirmed in Florida for seizing and renting a TS whose MF are delinquent. While TS procedure is relatively simple it is still DUE PROCESS!

 

[timeos2]

Thank you for confirming the US Constitution is still in full force and effect.

Quoting from the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution: "Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law".


I clearly stated there are specific legal procedures for evicting tenants, foreclosing on a house or condo
and you have confirmed in Florida for seizing and renting a TS whose MF are delinquent. While TS procedure is relatively simple it is still DUE PROCESS!

But easily accomplished at the time of billing. So whats your point? There is no reason to take ownership to rent the timeshare after 30 days have passed. No additional notice to owner required. It would take a pretty incompetent management not to be able to do that simple step and then RENT the time ASAP. It does ruin the argument that resorts need to foreclose to rent the time. They do not.

 

[Rent_Share]

Notwithstanding the limited demand for rentals in the off seasons

 

[pacodemountainside]

But easily accomplished at the time of billing. So whats your point? There is no reason to take ownership to rent the timeshare after 30 days have passed. No additional notice to owner required. It would take a pretty incompetent management not to be able to do that simple step and then RENT the time ASAP. It does ruin the argument that resorts need to foreclose to rent the time. They do not.

John:

To best of my knowledge most TS are on a calendar year. This means 2013 budget is being prepared now and will be billed in December after approval by BOD or maybe owners or who ever.

Generally this means MF are due by January 31, 2013 or become delinquent.

However use year begins on January 1, 2013. So notice of delinquency on February 1, 2013 would apply to use year 2014. HOA is SOL as far as legally renting in 2013.

This would mean the guaranteed loss of 2013 MF! Surely there must be a better solution!


http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/721.13

Specifically:

"(f)1. Provided that the managing entity has properly and timely given notice to a delinquent purchaser pursuant to paragraph (b) and to any affiliated exchange program pursuant to paragraph (c), the managing entity may give further notice to the delinquent purchaser that it may rent the delinquent purchaser’s timeshare period, or any use rights appurtenant thereto, and will apply the proceeds of such rental, net of any rental commissions, cleaning charges, travel agent commissions, or any other commercially reasonable charges reasonably and usually incurred by the managing entity in securing rentals, to the delinquent purchaser’s account



.******* Such further notice of intent to rent must be given at least 30 days prior to the first day of the purchaser’s use period, and must be delivered to the purchaser in the manner required for notices under paragraph (b).*********



A managing entity may make a reasonable determination regarding the priority of rentals of timeshare periods to be rented pursuant to this paragraph and, in the event that the delinquent purchaser of a timeshare period rented pursuant to this paragraph cannot be specifically determined due to the structure of the timeshare plan, may allocate such net rental proceeds by the managing entity in any reasonable manner.

 

[timeos2]

Again not how it works. If the use year begins 1/1 then fees will be due on or before that date. Most resorts will require payment before check in so although January's users may not fall under the 30 days of notice they can blocked from use & therefore the time may be available for last minute rental.

No one or time gets away - its pay or lose your use and eventually your ownership if you drag it out. All the while your credit can take a big negative hit.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Notwithstanding the limited demand for rentals in the off seasons

Clearly a valid point if fixed mud week at ski resort, January or February in Branson or Williamsburg or August in the desert.

However, Wyndham has ARP at all of its resorts for UDI owners there which means they can book at 13 months out. Most people just don't. Anyway, the resorts can book the best of the best weeks and probably rent for twice MF and costs will "exceed" income. Other resorts must have some kind of booking priority with the early bird generally getting the biggest and juiciest worms.

Thinking out of the box, resort probably pays cash bonuses, incentive rewards, employee of the month, etc. So, instead of cash use Intervals they own. Washes! Schools, boy and girl scouts, PTAs, soccer teams, etc. are always having fund raisers. Donate a week, get great publicity and a possibly a tax deduction.

In older resort at any given time there are units out of service for maintenance, renovating, whatever! So, the resort schedules many units for fixing up at one time and gets a great price from contractor vs ones and two-es. Think when you have a repair man come out one normally gets hit with $50+ trip charge.

 

[aowens]

Ownership to LLC

I was reading somewhere that you can form an LLC (not that expensive)
and maintain it and put the deed of the timeshare you buy into the
the name of the LLC.

Then, if you ever want to get out from under it, you should stop maintaining
the LLC which dissolves and so does your timeshare.

Anyone know of anyone that has tried this?

 

[DeniseM]

I was reading somewhere that you can form an LLC (not that expensive)
and maintain it and put the deed of the timeshare you buy into the
the name of the LLC.

Then, if you ever want to get out from under it, you should stop maintaining
the LLC which dissolves and so does your timeshare.

Anyone know of anyone that has tried this?

#1 - when you abandon your timeshare, you are dumping the maintenance fee on the shoulders of the faithful owners who continue to pay their maintenance fees. Not the management company, not the developer - the OWNERS.

#2 - It's fraudulent to form an LLC for this purpose.

#3 - Resorts are catching onto this and they are starting to refuse deeds, or charge a high transfer fee, from known offenders.

 

[ampaholic]

I was reading somewhere that you can form an LLC (not that expensive)
and maintain it and put the deed of the timeshare you buy into the
the name of the LLC.

Then, if you ever want to get out from under it, you should stop maintaining
the LLC which dissolves and so does your timeshare.

Anyone know of anyone that has tried this?

This idea has bounced around here several times and has generally been talked to death - do yourself a favor and search "viking ship" in the search box above.

Denise lays it out very succinctly I would say.

 

[terrygee]

I'm sorry this is unethical and in my book pretty immoral that you used your friend's death to your benefit. You made a bad choice in your purchase of the TS and used the imminent death of a friend to get out from your financial obligation and just push the debt onto your fellow owners. And you and others are OK with that? Really?

I'm sorry I'm not some high and mighty person but that would not sit well with my moral compass. No way.

Yeah, I'm OK with it. You see buying a timeshare is not a moral decision nor is a contract a morality play.
It is a business document that specifies the responsibilities of the parties and consequences of failing to meet them.
I considered selling my TS, which I used for many years, to a penniless person as I no longer am able nor care to use it in retirement. So I dumped it the old fashioned, and simplest way. I simply stopped paying.

As an earlier poster noted, timehares are the only 'asset' you can't even give away, much less sell.
The model of the industry strikes me as a python eating it's own tail, and it's not looking good.
As I am long past needing credit the consequences are moot.
As for other owner's, they must decide what the best business decision is for themselves.
Morality is not an issue and I feel not a smidgen of guilt.
In fact, I feel relieved of a major irritant.

 

[DaveNV]

Yeah, I'm OK with it. You see buying a timeshare is not a moral decision nor is a contract a morality play.
It is a business document that specifies the responsibilities of the parties and consequences of failing to meet them.
I considered selling my TS, which I used for many years, to a penniless person as I no longer am able nor care to use it in retirement. So I dumped it the old fashioned, and simplest way. I simply stopped paying.

As an earlier poster noted, timehares are the only 'asset' you can't even give away, much less sell.
The model of the industry strikes me as a python eating it's own tail, and it's not looking good.
As I am long past needing credit the consequences are moot.
As for other owner's, they must decide what the best business decision is for themselves.
Morality is not an issue and I feel not a smidgen of guilt.
In fact, I feel relieved of a major irritant.

You do realize this thread is six years old, right?

Dave

 

[DeniseM]

terrygee - you are responding to a thread that is 6 years old...

 

[wdinner]

Always fun responding to thread that was started six years ago!

Yet the same question often comes up today. The passing of a TS to a person who is soon going to pass on is, in my book, brilliant.
As long as the person and his heirs understand and agree to the situation there is no moral or ethical issue, at least to me. As noted this is a business transaction and in general the rules have, over the last 50 years, been revised to aid the corporations over the individual. I do feel some remorse for the board, but one thing that is guaranteed to happen over time is change. And the boards need to realize this and to make changes to how they handle the situations of real life.

 

[terrygee]

Indeed, I did realize it.
I post on quite a few message boards, but rarely on tug.
Like the kid who started to talk at age 9, I waited till I had something to say.

 

[terrygee]

terrygee - you are responding to a thread that is 6 years old...

Always fun responding to thread that was started six years ago!

Yet the same question often comes up today. The passing of a TS to a person who is soon going to pass on is, in my book, brilliant.
As long as the person and his heirs understand and agree to the situation there is no moral or ethical issue, at least to me. As noted this is a business transaction and in general the rules have, over the last 50 years, been revised to aid the corporations over the individual. I do feel some remorse for the board, but one thing that is guaranteed to happen over time is change. And the boards need to realize this and to make changes to how they handle the situations of real life.

See above.. should have quoted both of you first.

 

[NotNew]

Shock n awe about this whole thread, but I'm new around here. The first question: If OP was really trying to give friend/friend family a gift, why not just let them use the timeshare for free, rather than selling it to them and putting an albatross around the neck of their estate? PS I scanned through most of the thread and didn't see this asked. The whole thread is making me rethink my recent transaction.... I guess I can cancel prior to paying anything for free?

 

[icydog]

Shock n awe about this whole thread, but I'm new around here. The first question: If OP was really trying to give friend/friend family a gift, why not just let them use the timeshare for free, rather than selling it to them and putting an albatross around the neck of their estate? PS I scanned through most of the thread and didn't see this asked. The whole thread is making me rethink my recent transaction.... I guess I can cancel prior to paying anything for free?

I am concerned about the statement above. If you bought a timeshare, retail or otherwise, you have a specific rescission period. After that time the timeshare is yours.

 

[NotNew]

yes, thanks! but if in rescision period cancelled, then I lose all the closing fees?

 

[Passepartout]

yes, thanks! but if in rescision period cancelled, then I lose all the closing fees?

If you are within the allowed rescission period (It varies by state), you lose nothing. The term 'rescission' means to set affairs back as if no transaction was made.

Jim

 

[RX8]

yes, thanks! but if in rescision period cancelled, then I lose all the closing fees?

Not sure if I fully understand your situation.

If your rescission period has passed then you cannot rescind and still own the timeshare. Your closing costs are already paid with your purchase.

If you are still within your rescission period, and you in fact rescind, then you would be refunded all fees, including down payment and closing costs.

Your contract will dictate the terms of your rescission rights. If you purchased resale, and not direct from the developer, you may not have rescission rights.