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[ 2013 ] How does it make sense?

Discussion in 'New to Timesharing? Look Here!' started by AndySamuels, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. lizap

    lizap TUG Member

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    At least wo things make me question the appropriateness of TSs for you: 1.) Vegas and 2.) you don't typically arrange your trips that far in advance. Is it possible that you may want to visit other places at some point? If so (e.g., Hawaii, Carribean), then TSs may make more sense for you.
     
  2. AndySamuels

    AndySamuels Guest

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    All very valid points.

    Travel with 5+ people with airfare, a rental car and so on get's really expensive really fast. Especially in this economy. It is hard to make long term plans with so many challenges. Irene & Sandy for example: thousands down the drain.
     
  3. ronparise

    ronparise TUG Member

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    I've been to Vegas once in my 67 years so I have no need to ever go back So I can't be persuaded by your Vegas numbers. Do a similar calculation for San Francisco or Seattle or San Antonio or San Diego or Vancouver or Chicago or New York or Washington, D.C. or Waikiki or Myrtle beach or Miami or Marco island or Sanibel island or Destin
     
  4. AndySamuels

    AndySamuels Guest

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    You are 100% on point. Unfortunately I am not that interested in those locations. And I already live in the NYC suburbs. :) DC suburbs' hotel rooms are usually pretty cheap. Including Hampton Suites.
     
  5. Ridewithme38

    Ridewithme38 TUG Member

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    I'm from Long Island, not Massapequa, but that area...it is true that the only timeshares within driving distance worth visiting are in Atlantic City....BUT, maybe you might want to overlook that advice and think about purchasing just to exchange into those areas instead of looking to purchase in atlantic city.

    I had big hopes of buying in the pocono's when i was just starting to look into timeshares.....it's close, i went there when i was young(friends own a 'cabin'), so i knew what was available to do in the area...But after doing so research i realized all the timeshares in the pocono's suck! so i bought a timeshare in Williamsburg that i only use to trade and a every other year timeshare in Myrtle beach that i fly down to.

    So far, because of my williamsburg timeshare, i've stayed in williamsburg, Hershey, Vermont, the Poconos, Massanutten, Va and other places i can't remember right now...and i've only owned a few years.
     
  6. AndySamuels

    AndySamuels Guest

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    Excellent suggestion. I live on LI as well. I will have to discuss or future vacation plans with my wife and MIL. :)
     
  7. Sandy VDH

    Sandy VDH TUG Review Crew: Elite TUG Member

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    Not that this will help you on resale as VIP is non-tranferable, but with wyndham I have vip perks and get units at 50% and get free upgrades. I also have HGVC, and I occasionally use comps if it fits my purpose.

    Last 4 stays in Vegas.

    1 week, 10 TPU booked Wydham Grand Desert via RCI, about $350
    2 days, booked 1 BR via Wyndham GD got upgraded to 3 BR Penthouse $70 total
    3 days, got comped at both Hard Rock and Green Valley Ranch. $0
    1 week, my friend took for her and her mom at the Flamingo. 2400 HGVC, about $450
     
  8. AndySamuels

    AndySamuels Guest

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    Cool! We used to go to Vegas twice a year. But with ticket prices so high from LGA/JFK now and kids it is really tough. :) Buying a Wyndham VIP TS must have been a pretty penny BTW.
     
  9. SJS

    SJS TUG Member

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    It can make sense

    I doubt that one can get a hotel suite with 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, full kitchen, living room and dining room for $100 a night. We've had our timeshare (two separate weeks) at Whistler BC for 22 years. We rented our Christmas week four out of every five years and that paid our mortgage and maintenance fees. We use at Whistler or exchange our summer week. We use an RCI credit card that gives enough dollar points that it pays for our RCI membership and all exchange fees. We vacation with extended family, and there is absolutely nowhere that 5-6 people could stay for a week for our maintenance fee of $903/ year. Two of our memorable exchanges were two 1500 era manors in England (normally over 500 pounds/night) and another in Wales. ;)There are a couple caveats: buy prime weeks in a prime location, buy only fee simple title (not points), know the laws in your timeshare area that protect YOU, not the management company, and be an active member of your timeshare homeowners' association so you can catch and nip in the bud bad management.
     
  10. adkferrets

    adkferrets Guest

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    I don't think the math is there for the timeshares...

    One more approach to the analysis -

    I see the 'rent' the hotel vs 'buy' the timeshare discussion all thru here.

    But you can rent the the timeshare too, without the expense and commitment of owning.

    I own in Orlando (I know it's unique, in the wrong way, but the logic applies). As an owner, we pay $1,000/mo or more in annual fees. Add to that the yearly amortization of the purchase - say $500. Compare the $1,500 to what it costs to rent the timeshare on the market. At my resort, for the ownership weeks I own, I see $800-900 on the market. Even directly thru the Marriott website, the cost can be $1,400 or lower.

    I tested a few other locations, and the logic holds that it's cheaper to rent the timeshare than buy - timeshares are really nice, lots of space, but you don't have to make the ownership commitment to use them, BUT it's generally cheaper not to buy.

    btw, selling my timeshare and finding the price is 1/3 what I paid, and Marriott is keeping 40% for the selling fee. It's selling for about 1/4 what Marriot prices the equivalent "points" for the week we have - that point game is another set of math that further reinforces that you really don't want to buy a timeshare - just use them :)
     
  11. boatnut

    boatnut TUG Member

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    Great advise from SJS

    We also own two prime weeks in Whistler. Never even seen the units. No desire to. We use them strictly to trade within Raintree and have option of RCI.
    Bought them for pennies on the dollar "used". THANK YOU TUG.....
    (Like less than 5 pennies on the dollar)
    Annual MF's are $1780 total for both. Gives us 320,000 points year.
    Normal "hotel room" with kitchen in high season in Mexico, southern USA, hawaii etc etc is 30,000 points.= $178 a WEEK.
    No booking or exchange fees. To put it another way, I can head south for two and a half months in the winter, stay in five star? hotel, full maid service for $1,780.
    I can upgrade to a two bedroom, jacuzzi, two full bathroom , full kitchen etc etc room by "paying" 50,000pts a week. =$300 a week.
    If RCI and Raintree close their doors I'll be "stuck" with two deeded two bedroom plus den ski weeks in Whistler to rent. Not seeing much potential exposure here as they rent for $300+ a night x two rooms x seven = $4,200. I could rent them for less than 50% of regular rate ( Rack rate is substantially more ) and still make a few dollars.
    Time share? Might just be one of the best things I've ever done.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  12. AndySamuels

    AndySamuels Guest

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    All excellent scenarios. For our current and near future travel plans prime weeks and exotic locations do not make a lot of sense. :)

    For now we will rent. :D
     
  13. ronparise

    ronparise TUG Member

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    If your only interest is Las Vegas and Atlantic City and if you dont have a need for a 2 or 3 bedroom suite, and you spend enough time (and money) in the casinos to be comped: timeshare are certainly not for you.

    Rent Shares Post (#2) however gave you the answer to your question...how does it make sense? Using the Last Call reservations in RCI you can get a week for under $50 a night.

    From where I sit, even that doesnt make sense ... You would have to pay me to go back to Vegas... (Did you know that place is in a desert?)
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  14. AndySamuels

    AndySamuels Guest

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    I love Vegas for the 24/7 catering, the shows, the casinos, the pool(s) (parties), the nightlife, the shopping, the attractions, the gun fun and good value all around. :D

    AC is a mini Vegas within driving distance.

    I am not big on beach vacations: I find it very difficult to not have something to do.

    Also: a week is too long to vacation for me anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  15. Smokatoke

    Smokatoke TUG Member

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    I am a vegas nut and go 3-4 times a year. Even going there that often, timesharing isnt worth it, and you can often find hotel deals cheaper.

    I own Vegas timeshare but thats because of the low MF to point ratio, and i use those points normally for non-vegas trips. The exchange fees alone would almost price you out of Vegas compared to hotels unless you were booking very highend like Elara or Flamingo.

    As Ron mentioned you cant use Vegas as the basis for determining if timesharing is worth it because of the cheap cost and volume of hotels there. Look at NYC, Hawaii or any Disney property and you will see timesharing saves you crazy money.

    But use Vegas as an example, Elara 2bed suite is 699 a night on Priceline. I will pay that for the entire week after point cost and exchange fees.
     
  16. csalter2

    csalter2 TUG Member

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    I guess it's not for him.

    Based upon the OP's comments, timesharing is not for him. First, he doesn't like to travel. Secondly, as everyone has stated, he's only looking at Las Vegas and Atlantic City. Thirdly, he says he can't plan in advance. These three things alone make him a candidate for hotels. I don't know if I would want my mother in law in the same room with me on vacation. I would like to have my own bedroom with my wife and she can have her own bedroom. However, different strokes for different folks.

    I don't think he really was interested in a timeshare in the first place other than to save a few bucks. However, he can't if he doesn't vacation. He states that 7 days is too long for him. Well, most of us on TUG often put 7 days as a bare minimum. We LOVE vacationing and many of us are not retired yet. I will be doing a month in Hawaii, and for me to stay in the same accommodations would cost me in excess of $14,000. I got these from booking.com and hotels.com and they are renting out my timeshare to the public. I pay about $5000 in MF's and I can still stay more time after that month in Hawaii. It is also important to note that I will be staying in two bedrooms. Those rentals are all based on studios.

    I read the posts and no one mentioned how you could use a lockoff and get more than one week. I can use my Marriott 2 bedroom and get two weeks from that alone. I could also decide to rent the studio side for maintenance fees and use the one bedroom side if I wanted to be there.

    They key to timeshare ownership as one poster already stated is knowing how to make your timeshare system work for you. That is why many of us like TUG. We learn a lot from one another to make our systems work as much as possible to our advantage. Many of us get great deals. How about those Accommodation Certificates that get you a week at low cost? I have used those on more than one occasion, or even a getaway. To save money one must be a planner and traveler who understands their timeshare system. Anything short of that and you won't get the maximum.
     
  17. VegasBella

    VegasBella TUG Member

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    Yeah, sounds like timeshares don't make sense for the OP, at least not the ones he's looking at buying.

    The reason they make sense for my family are these:
    - We vacation to the beach during Summer. Preplanning with timeshares (rent or buy) is MUCH cheaper.
    - Having a kitchen makes meals easier. I hate dining out for every single meal. HATE IT. I feel like I'm wasting time. I feel like I have fewer choices. I feel unhealthy. Etc.
    - Kids: it's just easier to have a kitchen and laundry when you have kids. Less stressful when you can just wash the vomit-covered or peed-on clothing right away (KWIM?)
    - We're at a point in our lives where we actually need to preplan our vacations. That's because our kiddo is in school now. Previously we lived lives of leisure and could vacation whenever we wanted. But now we need to stick to a schedule.

    All that said, there are some huge downsides to timeshares. For those reasons, I think the basic TUG advice to wait and research, research, research is sound advice.
     
  18. AndySamuels

    AndySamuels Guest

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    Thank you all for excellent feedback. :clap:

    BTW: we do not have my MIL stay in the same room. When we travel as the nuclear family we get 2 BRs. When my MIL joins in AC us we have 3 BRs. When she joins us in Vegas she stays with my BIL. :whoopie:

    Based on the MFs, membership, location (AC/Vegas), the need to plan very far in advance, relatively short stay and no need for laundry / kitchen, TS' are not for us at this point in time. :D

    They may very well be an excellent choice in the future when the parameters above change. :cheer:
     
  19. twinmommy19

    twinmommy19 TUG Member

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    Vegas is one of the few places where I probably wouldn't look to stay in a timeshare over a hotel. The hotel units on the Vegas strip are huge - lots of suites - and often you can get very reasonable prices. It's also not the kind of place where I would look to go for a 7 nights +. In the past, when we've gone to Vegas it has been for a long weekend or an extension of another trip (to Arizona for example). We don't golf though, so maybe that makes a difference. For us, 3-4 nights in Vegas at a time is more than enough. When we go there, part of the draw is the big breakfast buffets, the awesome pools at the strip hotels and we like going out to dinner on that kind of trip. I don't feel that a kitchen would be necessary. Even though there are activities for kids, I just don't see Vegas as my pick to bring a family with young children and if I did, I would choose to stay in one of the strip hotels with a fun water playground (like Mandalay Bay) over staying at a hotel like the Marriott. As nice as I'm sure the Marriott 3BR units probably are, the pool area doesn't look that great so it simply wouldn't be my choice location for a family.

    In the heart of Atlantic City, none of the timeshares compare to The Borgata or The Revel (I'm not including the Marriott Fairway Villas as it is a good 20 minute drive from AC - we like MFV a lot but it is a different kind of trip).
     
  20. SandyJ

    SandyJ TUG Member

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    Bottom line, I would agree. If you are a heavy enough gambler that you frequently get comped stuff, then that's the way you should play. (no pun intended!)

    I think ultimately we all want the best bang for our buck, some use credit card loyalty points, some use hotel and airlinr loyalty clubs, some use TS, but it's all the same goal in the end. The best value for your hard earned money.

    At this time, it sounds like hotels with your comps are your best value.

    Cheers!
     
  21. Beck02

    Beck02 TUG Member

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    Things may change

    The only thing is that "free" isn't free. There was a time Vegas used to substidize airfare, but I don't think that's the case any more. And when the food used to be super cheap. THey got enough tourists that they didnt need to do that. And the hotels may stop comping rooms at some point, and/or you might not gamble enough for them to offer it. Casinos have to make a profit (like any business). Don't get me wrong, I don't think you should buy in Vegas for all the above reasons, but eventually things might change.
     
  22. AndySamuels

    AndySamuels Guest

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    You are right. businesses in Vegas operate like any other businesses. In the depth of the Great Recession their offers were better than they are now. However: comps will not go away. And free airfares are still offered to higher player club tiers. Also: there are so many hotel rooms in Vegas that comped rooms (free or cheap) make perfect sense to casinos. Especially during non convention weeks and slower periods during the year. :)

    There are also many casinos so there is a lot of competition between them. And on strip old joints / off strip / down town joints have to throw more comps out there to compete with "on strip" and modern properties. :D

    I do not believe comps will go anywhere. But you are right in that the value of comps will fluctuate on supply and demand as well as competition in the casino marketspace. :whoopie:

    The same applies not to just casinos in Vegas but also to attractions, hotels without gaming and restaurants / bars.

    AC is even more under pressure from this perspective than Vegas as local casinos in the surrounding states are chipping away at the demand side.

    Vegas: convention weeks / (Holiday) weekends: top dollar. Slow weeks / high summer & Thanksgiving / Christmas: (dirt) cheap.
    AC: summer months: / (Holiday) weekends: top dollar. During the week / fall, winter & Thanksgiving / Christmas: (dirt) cheap.

    Obviously the one downside of Vegas (and other travel) is that with the airlines big 3 oligarchy (Delta, United, American) and tiny competitors (Southwest, JetBlue and so on) the cost of flying has increased between 40% to 100% unfortunately. :(
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  23. am1

    am1 TUG Member

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    The 3 and 4 bedroom presidential units at Wyndham Skyline Tower in Atlantic City can be rented at very reasonable prices every weekend of the year. Check ebay to see for yourself.
    I would not buy if AC/Vegas are where you like to go.
     
  24. AndySamuels

    AndySamuels Guest

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  25. VegasBella

    VegasBella TUG Member

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    There are a few timeshare weeks that could make financial sense for Vegas. New Years Eve in a unit on the Strip with a Strip view is likely to have value. That's the most desirable week and location of the year.

    But many people find that owning a Vegas timeshare does make sense for their travel lifestyle - they tend to use bonus weeks and exchanges to get the most value.

    Personally, I wouldn't own in Vegas at the moment though because I'm not interested in exchanging (yet). I own at older resorts with old fashioned timeshare policies. One of the main reasons I wanted to own a timeshare is because I wanted consistency in my Summer vacations. I want the experience of a vacation home without the financial and environmental costs. I have good memories of a vacation home in my childhood. So when my family put that home up for sale I started shopping for a timeshare.


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