[2014] Help! [HOA refusing to accept transfer to VSC LLC]

[daisy123]

Not sure where in the BBS to post this but here.

I am being pursued by a collection agency that I owe $734.79 to Southwind Management Corporation.

I traded a Southwind Management property thru Timeshare Trade-ins, LLC for a Summer Winds Resort timeshare in Branson, MO.

So now Timeshare Trade-ins owns the Southwind property. I have all the paperwork – the quit claim deed which was notarized – everything was done. But Southwind Management is saying they do not accept how Timeshare Trade-ins did the paperwork – so now I am liable for the maintenance fees of the Southwind property that I traded in January 2013 (I did pay the maintenance fee in January 2013)

I contacted Timeshare Trade-ins and they are in litigation with Southwind - because Southwind is not accepting that Timeshare Trade-ins, LLC now owns the traded property. This is happening with all the people that traded Southwind property through Timeshare Trade-ins in Branson, MO.

Has anyone else been through this? Advice?

 

[Passepartout]

I think you should seek legal advice, perhaps from an attorney versed in real estate, or debt experience.

That you have a quit claim deed, notarized or not, unless it's recorded with the county where the property is, is of little consequence. It appears that you still legally OWN the timeshare, and are liable for the MF on it.

While I don't know any of the players in your case, hundreds- (Thousands?) of timeshare owners have paid entities who promise to buy or otherwise end the ownership of timeshares, millions of dollars. Then the entities title them to an LLC and bankrupt it, leaving all the other owners paying for legal fees to foreclose the deeds, and maintain the property. That your (former) resort chose not to accept the sale is not surprising. It looks like you may well own two timeshares now.

I can't give you specific advice, but it seems that barring some action between the resort management and the LLC that apparently owns your quit claim deed, you still own the TS.

Good Luck. Keep us informed.

Jim

 

[DeniseM]

But Southwind Management is saying they do not accept how Timeshare Trade-ins did the paperwork – so now I am liable for the maintenance fees of the Southwind property that I traded in January 2013 (I did pay the maintenance fee in January 2013)

In a nutshell - this was not a legal transfer, and the resort does not have to accept it, because you transferred your timeshare to a company that intended to abandoned the timeshare, instead of transferring it to a legitimate buyer, who intended to take possession of the deed, and pay the maintenance fee.

Resort management is completely within their rights to refuse the transfer, and in fact, they are obligated to do so, to protect the HOA.

Around here, we call this kind of timeshare abandonment, a "Viking Ship." When you transfer your timeshare to a company like this, it means that they are going to abandon the deed, and let the maintenance fees go into default, so the remaining owners have to make up the deficit and cover your maintenance fees.

I contacted Timeshare Trade-ins and they are in litigation with Southwind - because Southwind is not accepting that Timeshare Trade-ins, LLC now owns the traded property.

If this is true, and I doubt if it is, you should expect this company to lose the lawsuit, because it is illegal to form a dummy company for the purposes of bankrupting it and abandoning the property that has been deeded to it. That being said, I don't believe for a second that there is a lawsuit. More likely, this company will disappear with your money, and re-appear in a short time under a new name and new persona.

****ADDED:

Here is an article written for people in similar situations, that you may find helpful:

Timeshare Scam Retaliation

If it were me:

1. I'd contact the HOA, and make arrangements to pay the MF directly to them, and see if they will agree to eliminate the late fees, and remove the report to the credit agencies and/or bill collectors.

2. Then I'd contact a reputable and inexpensive TS transfer company like *LTT, and attempt to get the deed back in my name. (This company can put the title back in your name - not take the TS off your hands.)

3. Then I would start all over with legal methods of disposing of my timeshare.

*L.T. Transfers
Lisa Short and Mary Pless
http://www.lttransfers.com/
readylegal@gmail.com
706.219.2709

 

[tschwa2]

Unfortunately you believed Timeshare Trade in. Since they haven't legally transferred the old ownership out of your name, you should see if you can get them to refund any money that you paid them and have them do the paperwork to get the new ownership out of your name. You would be back to square one but at least you would have the clear title to one property instead of a mirky one that you still owe fee's on and another one as well.

 

[e.bram]

How do we know it(deed) was not recorded with the county or city?

 

[DeniseM]

How do we know it(deed) was not recorded with the county or city?

It doesn't matter - the HOA does not have to accept a deed that has been deeded to a Viking Ship. We are seeing more and more situations like this, as HOA's recognize what's going on.

Obviously, this wasn't the only deed abandoned this way:

This is happening with all the people that traded Southwind property through Timeshare Trade-ins in Branson, MO.

 

[theo]

Exactly right

It doesn't matter - the HOA does not have to accept a deed that has been deeded to a Viking Ship. <snip>

Precisely so. Although not likely what the OP wants to hear, IMnsHO it's "Hooray for the attentive HOA!".

 

[tschwa2]

Precisely so. Although not likely what the OP wants to hear, IMnsHO it's "Hooray for the attentive HOA!".

Southwind management aka Spinnaker resorts (Hilton Head, Branson, and a few in Florida) also require $1500 in prepaid MF's for annual deeds or $750 in prepaid MF's in addition to $150 transfer fee. If the management company doesn't receive these fees the management won't recognize the transfer either. In fact I think they encourage you to submit the info about the new owner along with the fees before recording the deed with the county to avoid situations where they refuse the transfer.

I think some of these measures are meant to protect the HOA but they also effectively make it very difficult (and expensive) to transfer these deeds to someone else who is willing and able to take the TS. Current owners who may have been willing and able to give away the timeshare for free and even maybe pay a $175 document prep and recording fee charge may now have to pay or find someone willing to pay nearly $1900 for an annual timeshare. The management company is also in active sales and they do not require new owners to prepay $1500 in MF along with the purchase price, closing costs, etc. And just so everyone knows Southwind is not an independent HOA. They are very firmly developer controlled and they are worried about the management and developer (also basically the same entity) profits and not the good of the deeded owners.

One more thing, just to be on the "safe" side I think they refuse any LLC (even if it has nothing to do with a Viking Ship org) and even units deeded in the name of a Trust or an type of corporation. It has to be deeded to an individual or specific named individuals. So while many LLC's are Viking ships not all of them are and I there are lots of people that deed their ts's in the name of a Trust these days.

 

[TUGBrian]

good example of why we always advocate against upfront fee transfer companies...

hopefully you will get your money back, but I wouldnt hold my breath unless you threaten to make a huge deal about it...heres how.

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare_scam_retaliation.html

 

[e.bram]

Anticipated default cannot be reason to not accept transfer of ownership
Legallyer.

 

[DeniseM]

Anticipated default cannot be reason to not accept transfer of ownership
Legallyer.

I think you should contact the OP and offer to represent her in her case!

 

[e.bram]

For the amount of money involved they could do it themselves pro se in court ifit ever got to that.

 

[TUGBrian]

can you cite a case where this was found to be true?

because it sure sounds like she got the bill.

 

[e.bram]

Did the LLC get the invoice? And not pay it?

 

[theo]

Occasionally (including right now, actually ) it occurs to me that TUG should perhaps consider posting a new sticky entitled Please Don't Feed the Trolls.

 

[Talent312]

I would contact Southwind for a copy of the document which specifies the minimum requirements for a successful transfer... a bylaw, resolution or something. There has to be one. They can't make this up on the fly. That way, you'll know exactly why this didn't work, and not have to rely on our speculation (even if it's on the money).

Once you understand why they're right and you were wrong in what you attempted to do, you can then ask Timeshare Trade-In's to undo the deal, and reverse the deeds.
.

 

[CO skier]

Did the LLC get the invoice? And not pay it?

That is my question, also. The OP paid the 2013 maintenance fee and supposedly the timeshare was transferred in 2013.

Who received the maintenance fee bill in January 2014?

Did the OP receive the 2014 bill and subsequent past due notices and not pay them? Then the timeshare may not have been transferred and the OP still owns it.

Or, did the HOA send the 2014 maintenance fee bill to the LLC, in which case the timeshare was transferred and the HOA had recognized the LLC as the new owner?

There are too many critical details missing from post #1.

 

[Rent_Share]

I would contact Southwind for a copy of the document which specifies the minimum requirements for a successful transfer... a bylaw, resolution or something. There has to be one. They can't make this up on the fly. That way, you'll know exactly why this didn't work, and not have to rely on our speculation (even if it's on the money).

Once you understand why they're right and you were wrong in what you attempted to do, you can then ask Timeshare Trade-In's to undo the deal, and reverse the deeds.
.

Although I appreciate their desire to look out the remaining owners, I would have to question their authority on solely a board vote the right to discriminate on who they will accept as a new owner and how much they will require as a prepayment from various legal persons.

Legal Person http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/person

 

[e.bram]

Whom the TS can be transferred can be found in the Master Deed recorded in the county or city where the TS owners deed is. It must be applied uniformly to all deeded owners and cannot impede the sale anymore than when the deed was purchased by the present owner.

 

[e.bram]

A typical Theo response when he can't interject a reasonable comment to defend his reasoning.

 

[theo]

One quote, one question...

I've looked briefly at the web site of the upfront fee "release and redemption" LLC entity operating in this particular specific OP instance. Not wishing to in any way acknowledge, flatter or promote them, I'll nonetheless quote (in pertinent part) from a single line from their web site, followed by a single straightforward question:

"Our assignees have exclusive partnerships with large scale inventory Aggregates who buy timeshares by the hundreds..." <snip>

Now my one question; Is there anyone here reading those words, quoted verbatim, who honestly and truly believes that there are actually any entities out there buying timeshares "by the hundreds" --- or even acquiring them for free --- which have intentions other than just abandoning them onto the deck of a Viking Ship?

Then again, maybe I'm just cynical and jaded and they are actually very kind, generous and charitable folks, seeking to voluntarily acquire (and then responsibly accept and pay the future maintenance fee bills for) the unwanted timeshares of others which they have so magnanimously acquired "by the hundreds".

C'mon folks, get real. Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[elaine]

hmmm. Someone has to pay the annual fees. I don't see a problem with requiring prepayment. Presumably, the new owner would have to pay them at some point. I own a Spinnaker HHI property and am happy they are doing this. They discussed the Viking ship issue in a newsletter to all Spinnaker owners 2 years ago. I might not like some aspects of Southwind, such as only Flex can deposit with II and weeks still have to use RCI, but our units are well-maintained and my 3BR summer week Spinnaker fees are $200 lower than another 2BR HHI week I own that is managed by another company. Elaine

 

[theo]

LLC warrants further examination --- maybe it's legitimate, maybe not...

On one timeshare BoD / HOA with which I am personally familiar by virtue of actual participation, in the interests of fairness and consistency, any and every new recorded deed at that resort with non-individual titling is carefully scrutinized before deed acceptance and / or internal processing of a transfer.

"Trusts" are usually easily enough to verify, since a real and verifiable person with a real name and a real location is generally one of the trustees. Simple enough.

LLC's are another matter entirely. If we see those three letters, supportive and descriptive documentation is immediately requested verifying the legitimacy of the LLC.
No documentation, no acceptance --- Period. We've yet to be challenged, but either one of the two attorneys on the BoD (with well over 60 years of legal experience between them) would welcome (and, I suspect, rather easily prevail in) any such unlikely challenge. Retirement, after all, provides them with some free time.

 

[Rent_Share]

I've looked briefly at the web site of the upfront fee "release and redemption" LLC entity operating in this particular specific OP instance. Not wishing to in any way acknowledge, flatter or promote them, I'll nonetheless quote (in pertinent part) from a single line from their web site, followed by a single straightforward question:

"Our assignees have exclusive partnerships with large scale inventory Aggregates who buy timeshares by the hundreds..." <snip>

Now my one question; Is there anyone here reading those words, quoted verbatim, who honestly and truly believes that there are actually any entities out there buying timeshares "by the hundreds" --- or even acquiring them for free --- which have intentions other than just abandoning them onto the deck of a Viking Ship

IMHO their MO is to try to sell for $1.00, offer out as two for one, and even offer Visa Gift cards for up to $ 500, to show they made a "legitimate" attempt to "sell" them before walking away from what can't be given away as part of a "failed business"

Rinse, Lather, Repeat

 

[SueDonJ]

I agree with Jim's advice to immediately contact an attorney versed in real estate because each individual situation is subject to the specific contracts and governing documents in play. The American Bar Association's findlegalhelp.org link can be used to search for lawyers with that specialty in the states where the "victims" reside as well as where the timeshares and scammers are located.

But if this (i.e. timeshare owners being scammed by Viking Ship companies) is becoming more prevalent and it seems that it is, then it would be helpful to know which state/federal agencies could be contacted for advice and/or reporting. Anybody have a similar database link or any others that can be used for that purpose?

{eta} I know ARDA is a four-letter-word around here for some but where do they stand on this issue? Do they, or the owners' arm - ARDA-ROC, have resources/suggestions/advice?