[2014] Help! [HOA refusing to accept transfer to VSC LLC]

[torontobuyer]

I can agree with that as a blanket statement, resorts should not be able to block a transfer JUST because its not to an individual while doing no other research or investigation into said entity.

however I have zero problems with a resort/hoa/mgt company refusing to transfer ownership to an entity KNOWN to abandon timeshares.

But then these company's would JUST simply make a new entity each time.

 

[TUGBrian]

and if the PCC has an issue with that block, the PCC can sue the HOA and explain to a judge how their business model is not a fraudulent transfer, is what I was saying.

I would think the last place a PCC wants to deliberately be, is in a court room trying to defend the lack of payment of hundreds if not thousands of timeshare intervals.

 

[DeniseM]

But then these company's would JUST simply make a new entity each time.

It costs money to set up an LLC, so the VSC's tend to deed several timeshares to one LLC, before they abandon it.

Also, I'm sure the resorts that deal with them start to recognize phone numbers, addresses, and other clues.

As posted earlier in the thread, the resort can also request more documentation from an LLC, to see who they really are.

 

[ace2000]

It costs money to set up an LLC, so the VSC's tend to deed several timeshares to one LLC, before they abandon it.

I set up an LLC in Missouri for less than $200. It wouldn't take too many sales to make that pay off.

 

[DeniseM]

I set up an LLC in Missouri for less than $200. It wouldn't take too many sales to make that pay off.

True - but you could put 20 deeds from 20 resorts into it, and then abandon it, before you got caught. However, if you put 20 deeds in it from the same resort, you would probably get caught right away. It just depends on how "aware" the resort's title office is.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Our LLC in Colorado required a small amount of cash, but we had to put Rick's and Josh's social security numbers and home addresses. It's a chimney cleaning business.

You cannot create an LLC in Colorado without that personal information.

Michael Dunahay was one person who found out the hard way. He wanted to abandon the thousands of timeshares he put into his LLC in Colorado, Vacation Solutions. The company had so many resorts who wanted MF's because this guy's PCC wasn't moving the timeshares to new owners. He lost the Sleeper House, the most famous Colorado house on the hill in Evergreen:

http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2010/10/22/woody-allens-sleeper-house-hits-foreclosure-block/

 

[Rent_Share]

I would think the last place a PCC wants to deliberately be, is in a court room trying to defend the lack of payment of hundreds if not thousands of timeshare intervals.

I was being sarcastic

 

[TUGBrian]

ha...my bad!

cant tell with some of the replies in this thread...sorry about that!

 

[DeniseM]

I would think the last place a PCC wants to deliberately be, is in a court room trying to defend the lack of payment of hundreds if not thousands of timeshare intervals.

That's why there is no way that the VSC being discussed in this thread is suing the resort because they won't record their deeds, as they told the OP.

 

[Ken555]

That's why there is no way that the VSC being discussed in this thread is suing the resort because they won't record their deeds, as they told the OP.

+1

Makes no sense that they would want any government anything reviewing their business in any way.

I feel for the OP, though we still don't know all the particulars. Hope this all gets resolved amicably.


Sent from my iPad

 

[LannyPC]

Not sure where in the BBS to post this but here.

I am being pursued by a collection agency that I owe $734.79 to Southwind Management Corporation.

I traded a Southwind Management property thru Timeshare Trade-ins, LLC for a Summer Winds Resort timeshare in Branson, MO.

So now Timeshare Trade-ins owns the Southwind property. I have all the paperwork – the quit claim deed which was notarized – everything was done. But Southwind Management is saying they do not accept how Timeshare Trade-ins did the paperwork – so now I am liable for the maintenance fees of the Southwind property that I traded in January 2013 (I did pay the maintenance fee in January 2013)

I contacted Timeshare Trade-ins and they are in litigation with Southwind - because Southwind is not accepting that Timeshare Trade-ins, LLC now owns the traded property. This is happening with all the people that traded Southwind property through Timeshare Trade-ins in Branson, MO.

Has anyone else been through this? Advice?

Okay, maybe I missed these details in the 160+ previous posts but there are a couple of questions I have.

1) How did the OP come to learn of TSTS? Cold call? Google ad? Search engine along the lines of "get rid of your timeshare"? Owners' update at the resort where s/he owns like what we hear of a lot at Mexican TS presentations (ie. "If you pay to upgrade to this new package, we will take your current TS and apply its value to this new package)?

2) What was so attractive in the deal TSTI offered that the OP took the plunge with this questionable outfit? Or, IOW, what was TSTI offering?

3)What was the OP trying to ultimately accomplish by using TSTI's services?

 

[DeniseM]

Okay, maybe I missed these details in the 160+ previous posts but there are a couple of questions I have.

1) How did the OP come to learn of TSTS? Cold call? Google ad? Search engine along the lines of "get rid of your timeshare"? Owners' update at the resort where s/he owns like what we hear of a lot at Mexican TS presentations (ie. "If you pay to upgrade to this new package, we will take your current TS and apply its value to this new package)?

According to the OP, the resort where she bought her SECOND timeshare, let her trade-in her FIRST timeshare on the purchase, and it was handled by the LLC.

2) What was so attractive in the deal TSTI offered that the OP took the plunge with this questionable outfit? Or, IOW, what was TSTI offering?

She got to use a timeshare she didn't want, as a trade-in on a resort that she liked better.

3)What was the OP trying to ultimately accomplish by using TSTI's services?

She got a discount on her 2nd timeshare purchase.

 

[tschwa2]

Okay, maybe I missed these details in the 160+ previous posts but there are a couple of questions I have.

1) How did the OP come to learn of TSTS? Cold call? Google ad? Search engine along the lines of "get rid of your timeshare"? Owners' update at the resort where s/he owns like what we hear of a lot at Mexican TS presentations (ie. "If you pay to upgrade to this new package, we will take your current TS and apply its value to this new package)?

2) What was so attractive in the deal TSTI offered that the OP took the plunge with this questionable outfit? Or, IOW, what was TSTI offering?

3)What was the OP trying to ultimately accomplish by using TSTI's services?

The OP was at a Sales presentation for a different resort (from the one she already owned) that she liked better. TSTI was offered by the sales staff at the new resort to overcome the objection that the OP didn't want 2 TS and 2 MF;s. As part of the sale they took care of getting the paperwork started with TSTI. The OP never really thought of TSTI as a VSC as that was not how it was presented. It was presented as an option to trade in one ownership for one she liked better paying a fee that included the cost of the new timeshare, closing/recording costs and a fee for the services of TSTI.

Denise types faster than I do.

 

[DeniseM]

I would be surprised if any VSC's are upfront about what they really do, in any circumstances. If you look at their webpages, they very carefully skate around it.

 

[LannyPC]

The OP was at a Sales presentation for a different resort (from the one she already owned) that she liked better. TSTI was offered by the sales staff at the new resort to overcome the objection that the OP didn't want 2 TS and 2 MF;s. As part of the sale they took care of getting the paperwork started with TSTI. The OP never really thought of TSTI as a VSC as that was not how it was presented. It was presented as an option to trade in one ownership for one she liked better paying a fee that included the cost of the new timeshare, closing/recording costs and a fee for the services of TSTI.

Denise types faster than I do.

So if this is indeed the case, it looks like the sales staff is in cahoots with TSTI which appears to be a dreaded VSC. If that is the case, then these sales people are stooping to an even lower level than I have them pegged at.

 

[TUGBrian]

I certainly got the impression from my conversation with the stormy point management company that TSTI was a known and friendly entity.

I got the exact opposite impression from the french quarter management company during that conversation.

 

[elaine]

I recall something like this happening to others a while back. Someone went to a TS sales pitch, told salesman they couldn't buy b/c they had another TS--salesman said we'll give you X "credit" for your "old" TS and sell it for you. They bought new TS, "traded in" old TS, and then got a maintenance fee bill the next year for the old TS.
Very unscrupulous for TS sales to do this--I bet it's done more than we think, and previously, the Viking ships just sailed away. Now, certain TS managers have closed the loop. Good for them. I don't want to pay for any seats on that ship!

 

[famy27]

That's why there is no way that the VSC being discussed in this thread is suing the resort because they won't record their deeds, as they told the OP.

I doubt the VSC is suing them because they won't record the transfer, but someone is.

This was filed on 10/16/14 in Taney County, KS:


Ronald Best
v.
Grand Regency Group LLC; Southwind Management Corporation of South Carolina; Grand Regency Resorts LLC; Transfer America LLC; Transfer Smart LLC dba Pacific Transfer; Christian Vacations LLC; Grand Regency Resort at Thousand Hills Owners Association I

Consumer violations complaint where defendant Grand Regency refuses to acknowledge that plaintiff no longer owns a timeshare unit and placed unreasonable restrictions on plaintiff's ability to transfer his timeshare.

 

[DeniseM]

Interesting - so Ronald Best is probably an owner who can't transfer his timeshare?

 

[TUGBrian]

looks like hes suing both southwind and the PCC.

 

[famy27]

Interesting - so Ronald Best is probably an owner who can't transfer his timeshare?

That's how it looks to me. This type of thing really puts the HOA in a no-win situation. If the HOAs allow transfers to VSCs, they know the units will go into default and fees will go up. If they fight the transfer, they can get sued, and they'll need to spend money defending themselves, so fees will go up.

 

[csxjohn]

I recall something like this happening to others a while back. Someone went to a TS sales pitch, told salesman they couldn't buy b/c they had another TS--salesman said we'll give you X "credit" for your "old" TS and sell it for you. They bought new TS, "traded in" old TS, and then got a maintenance fee bill the next year for the old TS.
Very unscrupulous for TS sales to do this--I bet it's done more than we think, and previously, the Viking ships just sailed away. Now, certain TS managers have closed the loop. Good for them. I don't want to pay for any seats on that ship!

You will pay regardless. If someone can't keep up with the MFs or no longer wants to, your resort will eventually end up with that deed. They can do it the hard way and wait for foreclosure or try to find an easy way.

Resorts with undesirable weeks are doomed to go under eventually. The old owners that were tricked into believing the week they own doesn't matter are finding out that it does matter. When they let their ownerships go one way or another, the other owners will pay the total cost of running the resort until there are not enough of them to pay the higher costs. I believe it's just a matter of time.

 

[csxjohn]

There have been a lot of assumptions made in this thread from the beginning. One is that an LLC in and of itself is a scam company.

Many scams form an LLC but being a LLC does not mean it is a scam.

This was discussed a while ago on these pages when an HOA refused to transfer an ownership simply because it was an LLC.

I transferred a unit to a TUG member set up as an LLC who uses units he wants for his customers and employees. I paid him nothing, he took my unit and paid the closing costs.

Just because you see LLC, don't think it's a red flag.

 

[DeniseM]

John - Per the conversation that Brian had with the management company, this particular LLC is a known Viking Ship Company, and that's why they refused the transfer - not just because they are an LLC.

Just because you see LLC, don't think it's a red flag.

I disagree - if a company offering to take your timeshare is an LLC it is a red flag and it should be investigated further. Only by investigating, can you know for sure.

 

[Rent_Share]

I would be surprised if any VSC's are upfront about what they really do, in any circumstances. If you look at their webpages, they very carefully skate around it.

VSC ? = That's a new one to me