[2015] History of Marriott DC Point Price increases

[Fasttr]

There is a vibrant rental market all over the world for timeshares, condos, wholly owned homes, we've rented them owner direct or through third parties like VRBO, Redweek. Timeshares routinely rent for half of the Marriott rack rates. I see little validity in analysis predicated on comparisons to rack rate.
On the really big thread there was discussion of a weekly rental during the HHI Heritage Golf course. In a two minute search I found two bedroom Monarch overlapping the last two golf rounds for $1750. The week prior there were numerous listings at $1100. Our friends just returned from HHI golf weeks, friends rented Barony and GO each for a week. The first week of March a two bedroom Barony was $900 and the GO week rented for $ 1000. NO maintenance fees.

You do realize if nobody owned these things, and didn't pay MF's, they would not exist and folks like you would not be able to rent them. Renters like you need owners like us. The world is full of all types of people.. to each their own (or rent) as the case may be. ;-)

 

[JIMinNC]

There is a vibrant rental market all over the world for timeshares, condos, wholly owned homes, we've rented them owner direct or through third parties like VRBO, Redweek. Timeshares routinely rent for half of the Marriott rack rates. I see little validity in analysis predicated on comparisons to rack rate.
On the really big thread there was discussion of a weekly rental during the HHI Heritage Golf course. In a two minute search I found two bedroom Monarch overlapping the last two golf rounds for $1750. The week prior there were numerous listings at $1100. Our friends just returned from HHI golf weeks, friends rented Barony and GO each for a week. The first week of March a two bedroom Barony was $900 and the GO week rented for $ 1000. NO maintenance fees.

You continue to quote Redweek, VRBO, etc for your rental comparisons. Those are all rental-by-owner sites and you are still dealing with an owner, so are meaningless to those of us who do not choose to rent from individuals. I've repeatedly said - and have agreed with you - that for folks who are comfortable with large person-to-person transactions and who are willing to rely on that strategy for their vacations, the business case for ownership can sometimes be tough - especially if those people are willing and able to travel in non-peak seasons. But you seem unwilling to acknowledge that ownership can indeed make sense for folks who don't choose to rent from owners, and for those who value flexibility and cancellation rights (and there were a number of us who expressed our reservations about P2P transactions in that other thread you mention). Go back and read the posts in that other thread for a number of good summaries of the negatives of owner rentals that cause some of us to shy away from them.

Not that it's relevant, but just for the record, even the two Monarch weeks you quoted wouldn't have worked for us. As you said, one week you saw didn't even overlap the Heritage golf week and the other only overlapped two days. We're going for the full week, and I'll spend parts four or five days on the course (photographing the Wednesday pro-am and attending the four competitive rounds). I was also lucky enough to snag an orphan Sunday night at Heritage Club with DC points, so after checking out of Barony on Sunday AM, I can check into Heritage Club and then walk "home" after the Sunday final round without having to deal with an evening four hour drive back to Charlotte. I would have never been able to make that latter move with an owner rental.

Again, one size does not fit all.

 

[BocaBoy]

On the really big thread there was discussion of a weekly rental during the HHI Heritage Golf course. In a two minute search I found two bedroom Monarch overlapping the last two golf rounds for $1750. The week prior there were numerous listings at $1100. Our friends just returned from HHI golf weeks, friends rented Barony and GO each for a week. The first week of March a two bedroom Barony was $900 and the GO week rented for $ 1000. NO maintenance fees.

But if you owned you also would not have the rental cost.

 

[SueDonJ]

There is a vibrant rental market all over the world for timeshares, condos, wholly owned homes, we've rented them owner direct or through third parties like VRBO, Redweek. Timeshares routinely rent for half of the Marriott rack rates. I see little validity in analysis predicated on comparisons to rack rate.
On the really big thread there was discussion of a weekly rental during the HHI Heritage Golf course. In a two minute search I found two bedroom Monarch overlapping the last two golf rounds for $1750. The week prior there were numerous listings at $1100. Our friends just returned from HHI golf weeks, friends rented Barony and GO each for a week. The first week of March a two bedroom Barony was $900 and the GO week rented for $ 1000. NO maintenance fees.

Understood, and it's not incorrect to share the knowledge that a timeshare rental market exists in the overall discussion of whether timeshare ownership is a viable option for vacationing. But when it's the only knowledge that you impart and you do it repeatedly to the point where you completely disregard what every other poster in a discussion is sharing, that's not correct. This is your fair warning - in the Marriott forum, at least, I'm going to start deleting your posts if they are simply a repeat of your broken record "buying is bad, buying is a boondoggle, renting is best, go <here> <here> and <here> to rent" spiel.

 

[JIMinNC]

On the really big thread there was discussion of a weekly rental during the HHI Heritage Golf course. In a two minute search I found two bedroom Monarch overlapping the last two golf rounds for $1750. The week prior there were numerous listings at $1100. Our friends just returned from HHI golf weeks, friends rented Barony and GO each for a week. The first week of March a two bedroom Barony was $900 and the GO week rented for $ 1000. NO maintenance fees.

And by the way...as I said above, booking from owners/Redweek, etc. is not a relevant choice for us - but even IF we were willing to book that way, we would have a hard time renting on Redweek for less than our maintenance fee costs for our two trips in 2017 to HHI. The April and Sept weeks will cost us $3300 in maintenance fees. We have Oceanfront at Barony in April, and since September is an II trade, I suspect we'll get Oceanside (but the deposited unit we received is oceanfront, so we could get lucky, I guess, but we're not counting on it).

So, if we compare apples to apples with comparable Redweek listings to what we have booked - the one Oceanfront listing at Barony for Heritage week is $2500. For the September week at GO, we'd be looking at $1800 to $2250 for Oceanside. So a total of $4300 to $4750 for the same two bookings, even on Redweek.

 

[Hi I'm new here]

I didn't realize this was a dissent free board. I know I've hit a deep nerve which tells me I am very close to the third rail of truth that involves your side, my side and the "truth". If I gave one young family pause about getting involved I'm a very happy camper.
I've actually made multiple points. Life has a way of evolving, a product that sounds good when you have a couple little kids may bore you in five years and may become completely unworkable shortly after that. Booking rules are complicated and many buyers don't have the time to invest to learn the system. This product is not an investment. The destination club buy in cost and annual fees are staggering, often exceeding six figures over time. The product comes with no guarantees you will be able to book what you want. There is a shared sentiment here that the points will not retain value. Rules and policies constantly change and they are seldom in favor of the customer. There is indeed a vibrant rental market- Marriott corp told us that years ago when we were in the system. If you want to buy a timeshare use EBay, have patience or wait until the next economic slowdown to have pick of the litter for next to nothing. I'm on the other side of Marriott TS vacations but we remain loyal to their hotel brands, having just converted SPG Starwood points into MRP. I'm always happy to snag a deal in any of their brands.

I hope moderators leave the Golden Vike thread alone, it should be a pinned thread. And I still hope Golden Vike isn't really a buyer. He touched a real nerve with all of you and certainly with me.

 

[SueDonJ]

I didn't realize this was a dissent free board. I know I've hit a deep nerve which tells me I am very close to the third rail of truth that involves your side, my side and the "truth". If I gave one young family pause about getting involved I'm a very happy camper.
I've actually made multiple points. Life has a way of evolving, a product that sounds good when you have a couple little kids may bore you in five years and may become completely unworkable shortly after that. Booking rules are complicated and many buyers don't have the time to invest to learn the system. This product is not an investment. The destination club buy in cost and annual fees are staggering, often exceeding six figures over time. The product comes with no guarantees you will be able to book what you want. There is a shared sentiment here that the points will not retain value. Rules and policies constantly change and they are seldom in favor of the customer. There is indeed a vibrant rental market- Marriott corp told us that years ago when we were in the system. If you want to buy a timeshare use EBay, have patience or wait until the next economic slowdown to have pick of the litter for next to nothing. I'm on the other side of Marriott TS vacations but we remain loyal to their hotel brands, having just converted SPG Starwood points into MRP. I'm always happy to snag a deal in any of their brands.

I hope moderators leave the Golden Vike thread alone, it should be a pinned thread. And I still hope Golden Vike isn't really a buyer. He touched a real nerve with all of you and certainly with me.

Nobody has claimed that this is a "dissent free board" and my warning has nothing to do with you or anybody else "hitting nerves." The forum does have Rules, though, and one of them is that duplicate posts are not allowed. Like I said, your singular message isn't blatantly incorrect so there is some leeway to allow it in a number of threads in which it fits the topic (which I've done,) but when it's posted repeatedly within a single thread or short period of time it eventually dominates threads taking them off-topic. No matter how many times you repeat your message there will always be TUGgers who are at least as smart as you who do things differently, and a bombardment of "MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY" posts only serves to aggravate, not educate.

If you don't understand the TUG rules as they're being applied here, please contact me or TUGBrian privately, away from this thread. Any further comments in the thread about moderation will be removed.

 

[TXTortoise]

FWIW, the entire Golden Vike's thread is what got me active again as a Member on TUG after 10 years and ultimately back into weeks. Mining that thread for info may be a bit tedious, but it truly is a thread most anyone that is interested in TS should read from start to finish.

The breadth of knowledge, not only the analytics and manner in which Golden presented them, but the counter-points presented by folks with deep knowledge of week, points, hybrids, ROI (maybe RO Ownership. ;-)...etc. were outstanding.

I think that type of thread is what makes simple, "Don't do this statements', so tedious to see. In almost any 'should I buy' thread even the veterans here will make a logical case for why it's not for everyone and to pursue due diligence in evaluation your personal vacation plans and budget, before dropping significant dollars...and with Points things just get that much more complicated. ;-)

 

[JIMinNC]

Life has a way of evolving, a product that sounds good when you have a couple little kids may bore you in five years and may become completely unworkable shortly after that. Booking rules are complicated and many buyers don't have the time to invest to learn the system. This product is not an investment. The destination club buy in cost and annual fees are staggering, often exceeding six figures over time. The product comes with no guarantees you will be able to book what you want. There is a shared sentiment here that the points will not retain value. Rules and policies constantly change and they are seldom in favor of the customer. There is indeed a vibrant rental market- Marriott corp told us that years ago when we were in the system.

As Susan implied, I think the only "nerve" you hit was the one that reacts negatively to absolutes as opposed to nuances. We all love a good honest discussion on the pluses and mines of owning, renting, etc.

For example, I think very few of us who took issue with some of your statements could honestly disagree with most anything you say in the statement I've quoted above from your most recent post. But to make the transition from those truths to the statement, paraphrased, "No one, not anyone, should ever buy a timeshare or points" is where many of us took issue. I would agree that anyone who doesn't understand all those facts you outlined above should not buy until they DO understand those issues and have evaluated whether they can work within those frameworks and how a product that has those characteristics fits their lifestyle. If they evaluate those issues thoughtfully, analytically, and with knowledge, and they still conclude ownership works for them, who are any of us to question their rationale? Similarly, if someone does the same analysis and decides not to buy, who are we to question their rationale?

In GoldenVIKE's thread that you referenced, he decided to buy because even though he has a young family, he has the income to afford ownership, and based on his evaluation and what was a very clear understanding of the limitations and opportunities inherent in ownership, he concluded it worked for him and his family. He has subsequently posted other threads asking questions about specific resorts as he decides where to take his family first. He did it the right way - as a smart, informed TUGger. Some may agree with this rationale, others may disagree, but he's really the only one who matters.

Life does change, as you say, but our own personal timeshare history demonstrates ownership can change and evolve with your life stage. We bought our first timeshare (in Maui) in 1999 when our kids were 1 and 4. We used it to go to Hawaii seven times, and to Disney about 7 times. Once the kids outgrew Disney trips, it became a little more difficult to use in the years we didn't go to Hawaii, and eventually even Hawaii became a non-starter when our kids reached high school/college age and didn't want to take family vacations without a friend going along. So we sold our old timeshare in 2014 and bought into the more flexible Marriott DC point system which will now fit our lifestyle as soon-to-be empty nesters much better. After 16 years of our original ownership, we more than recouped our maintenance fees and purchase cost and then used our leftover ownership from the 2012 to 2014 years (RCI TPUs) for week long trips to Hilton Head, Paris, and Southern California in 2015 and 2016. We just booked May 2018 for my wife and I to visit Sedona and we still have enough TPUs for at least one more trip (maybe two). That's for an ownership we sold three years ago (we have to pay about $100/year to extend the expiration dates of the TPUs, but that's a small price to pay for keeping them active.) We may wind up squeezing five or six weeks out of those last three years of Maui ownership.

 

[Fasttr]

Updating the list for historical tracking.

06/20/2010 - $9.20
$9.60
$9.85
$10.22
11/06/2011 - $10.94
$11.20
09/??/2012 - $11.64
03/??/2013 - $11.88
09/??/2013 - $11.96
??/??/2014 - $12.02
06/20/2014 - $12.12
09/11/2014 - $12.24
03/26/2015 - $12.48
06/18/2015 - $12.66
09/10/2015 - $12.92
03/24/2016 - $13.04
07/14/2016 - $13.18
12/01/2016 - $13.32
09/01/2017 - $13.84 (date is approximate)

 

[BigMac]

Not sure how I got this but I think there was another increase between 12/1 and 9/1.

. Makes some sense as 9 months is a longer than usual period without a change.

 

[Fasttr]

Not sure how I got this but I think there was another increase between 12/1 and 9/1. View attachment 4746. Makes some sense as 9 months is a longer than usual period without a change.

It does seem likely....I added it...as well as another apparent missed jump seen in this thread.... Ongoing Sales Incentive - Enrolling Post-6/20/10 Weeks [Merged]

06/20/2010 - $9.20
$9.60
$9.85
$10.22
11/06/2011 - $10.94
$11.20
09/??/2012 - $11.64
03/??/2013 - $11.88
09/??/2013 - $11.96
??/??/2014 - $12.02
06/20/2014 - $12.12
09/11/2014 - $12.24
03/26/2015 - $12.48
06/18/2015 - $12.66
09/10/2015 - $12.92
03/24/2016 - $13.04
07/14/2016 - $13.18
12/01/2016 - $13.32
04/01/2017 - $13.52 (date is approximate)
06/01/2017 - $13.68 (date is approximate)
09/01/2017 - $13.84 (date is approximate)

 

[dioxide45]

Thanks for keeping this updated!

 

[BigMac]

Website says another increase in the rack rate will take effect tomorrow. If anyone attends a presentation next month please post the new rate

 

[Bodie]

Many Hybrid Bundles can result in a net cost per point of $6.50 to $7.50, so those are very competitive with the cost of resale points. Also, not all bundles are built around Silver weeks. Many bundles are built around Gold or Platinum weeks and still result in cost per point in that same range. Even Silver weeks can be good values. We used our Silver Barony Beach Club to easily trade into September (Gold season) at Grande Ocean. That same September booking would have taken 3500-4000 points at a maintenance fee cost of roughly $1900 to $2100, or at a cash cost of around $2700 on Marriott.com (yes, I know, rental from owner is cheaper, but we don't book that way, as I've discussed ad-naseum in other posts). Buying a Hybrid for the same cost as resale points gives you greater value because you can choose to play in either weeks or points.

As far as the $189 A/C option, I've found those can be hit or miss and there's no guarantee that there will be an A/C available when you want to go. With the Silver week, we don't have to hope for an A/C. But having said that, I think we will rarely if ever use our Silver week in season unless we decided we wanted to go over the Christmas holiday sometime. We bought it as part of a hybrid as an inexpensive way to get a usable number of points to test drive the DC system, with the added advantage of being able to use it as a trader for shoulder season trips.

Plus, if we decided to ditch the Silver week at some point, we could broker it through Marriott Resales and probably recoup about two-thirds of our purchase price (since they have increased the retail price of our week by $400 since we bought three years ago). Factoring in that residual value, by the end of this year, or certainly by 2018, we will have already recouped the full cost of that week with the trips we've booked as weeks (trades) or from electing points. (Admittedly, electing for points on a Silver week is not a great value due to the mf/point. We will do so only when we absolutely need those points to book something we really want, and then only if point rental doesn't work for that situation.)



If you can't fathom it, then don't buy it. It's not right for you. But there are also many other financial analyses on TUG that show that, for many of us, owning is anything but a boondoggle. We save money over time when compared to cash bookings. I can honestly say, if I had to pay the $3000+ cost for a cash booking at Barony or a similar property for Heritage PGA week in HHI, there is no way we would be going next month...and we certainly wouldn't be going again in September to Grande Ocean, thus spending almost $6000 in cash to book two weeks in Hilton Head for 2017. If we hadn't owned our old non-Marriott timeshare on Maui from 1999-2014, there is no way we would have paid what it would have cost to book a 2BR condo on Maui seven times over those years.

You continue to characterize others' well-thought-out plans that happen to be right for them as boondoggles just because their approach is not right for you. No one should buy without thorough analysis and research, and ownership is not for everyone - and it's clearly not for you - but don't paint everyone with that same brush.

 

[Bodie]

Hello, read your informative break down of hybrid bundles and wonder if you would be kind enough to provide advice. We are legacy owners in Aruba and hold 2500 DC points. In order to reach Presidential level we are being offered silver St Kitts at either $13,000(2000 pts annually) or $12,400 (2950 pts e/o year) to get to that level. MFs $1899 or $1285 respectively which would bring our annual MFs to over $7000. We will probably never go to St Kitts - certainly not in Silver (hurricane) season. A DC points purchase of 1500 (we only need 1350 but that isn't offered) would be more than $20K and no deeded week. Do any of those scenarios sound better than the other? MVC tells me they only have Silver weeks left. Thanks for your response.

 

[bazzap]

Hello, read your informative break down of hybrid bundles and wonder if you would be kind enough to provide advice. We are legacy owners in Aruba and hold 2500 DC points. In order to reach Presidential level we are being offered silver St Kitts at either $13,000(2000 pts annually) or $12,400 (2950 pts e/o year) to get to that level. MFs $1899 or $1285 respectively which would bring our annual MFs to over $7000. We will probably never go to St Kitts - certainly not in Silver (hurricane) season. A DC points purchase of 1500 (we only need 1350 but that isn't offered) would be more than $20K and no deeded week. Do any of those scenarios sound better than the other? MVC tells me they only have Silver weeks left. Thanks for your response.

St Kitts only has 88 units, so that may explain only having Silver weeks left.
We own Gold weeks there and either stay at the resort or use it as a very good Interval exchanger.
The points allocation is relatively very low though for the high MFs charged, so personally i would not recommend buying a Silver week there just to get Presidential level, especially if you never plan to go there.
I would push to explore similar options, but for a resort you would plan to go to with lower MFs.

 

[Bodie]

Thank you. I was leaning that way and appreciate your input. Happy Holidays

 

[SueDonJ]

Just got an email advising a 3/31/18 price increase for DC Trust Points, no word on $ amounts but including a Request Information link. Purchase of at least 2,500 Points initiated prior to will earn 2,500 Plus Points:

Eligibility: With the new purchase and closing on a minimum of 2,500 Vacation Club Points, purchaser will receive the matching number of PlusPoints as the contracted purchase as a special purchase incentive. PlusPoints may be redeemed for nights at any Marriott Vacation Club® resort or property. This special purchase offer is only for purchasers who are residents of the 50 United States, including the District of Columbia but excluding Alabama, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Missouri, Mississippi, North Dakota, Ohio, West Virginia and the state of Washington. Purchaser must call to initiate the purchase, sign and return contract documents for the purchase of at least 2,500 Vacation Club Points to Marriott Vacation Club, Central Sales Distribution, 6649 Westwood Boulevard, Suite 500, Orlando, Florida 32821, no later than March 30, 2018 to receive the 2,500 PlusPoints. The contract documents will be mailed out via FedEx courier services and a FedEx envelope will be included for the return of the contract documents. The Vacation Club Points and PlusPoints necessary to occupy specific resorts for a specific number of nights may change from time to time and is determined by the time of year, days of week of stay, view and bedroom type reserved. Reservations are subject to availability. PlusPoints can be used to reserve accommodations and other Exchange Benefits within the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations® Exchange Program, subject to terms and conditions of the Exchange Company Documents. PlusPoints expire 24 months from deposit. PlusPoints will be deposited within 30 days from date of closing. Offer expires March 30, 2018. Offer is not available with any other promotional offer, including resort marketing packages. Offer subject to change without notice. PlusPoints are nontransferable and may not be banked, borrowed or traded for Marriott Rewards® points. Airfare, ground transportation, gratuities, additional expenses and applicable taxes, if any, are not included with this offer.

 

[Fasttr]

Just for tracking purposes, I am pretty convinced back in Nov/Dec 2017 they upped the price to $13.90 per point. A surprisingly small jump, but have seen that number quoted in several posts, so I believe it to be true.

 

[JIMinNC]

Just for tracking purposes, I am pretty convinced back in Nov/Dec 2017 they upped the price to $12.90 per point. A surprisingly small jump, but have seen that number quoted in several posts, so I believe it to be true.

I think you mean $13.90?

 

[Fasttr]

I think you mean $13.90?

Sorry...you are correct...and I edited my post so as not to confuse.

 

[BigMac]

Found this on the MVC website. A 0.43% increase to $13.9pp brings it to $13.96

Become an Owner Before Prices Increase and Get a Bonus Vacation!
When you become an Owner in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations® Program by purchasing a minimum of 2,500 Vacation Club Points by March 30, 2018, you’ll receive 2,500 Vacation Club PlusPoints. Redeem your PlusPoints toward up to 6 nights* at any available Marriott Vacation Club® property or resort. That’s like getting a bonus vacation!

Act now. Prices Increase March 31, 20181.

For details about this limited-time offer, scroll down to see the Details of Participation, call 800-527-1589 or request information using the form to the right.

*The number of nights that may be available using 2,500 PlusPoints depends on the resort, its location, dates and unit type/view requested.

1On this date, Beneficial Interest prices will increase by 0.43% over current prices

 

[Fasttr]

Just updating the list to keep it all in one place......

06/20/2010 - $9.20
$9.60
$9.85
$10.22
11/06/2011 - $10.94
$11.20
09/??/2012 - $11.64
03/??/2013 - $11.88
09/??/2013 - $11.96
??/??/2014 - $12.02
06/20/2014 - $12.12
09/11/2014 - $12.24
03/26/2015 - $12.48
06/18/2015 - $12.66
09/10/2015 - $12.92
03/24/2016 - $13.04
07/14/2016 - $13.18
12/01/2016 - $13.32
04/01/2017 - $13.52 (date is approximate)
06/01/2017 - $13.68 (date is approximate)
09/01/2017 - $13.84 (date is approximate)
12/01/2017 - $13.90
03/31/2018 - $13.96

 

[BigMac]

Just saw that people are reporting that the current rack price is $14.10. Anyone know what date this was implemented so Fasttr can keep his list updated?