Airline safety

[x3 skier]

Another story with more pictures.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/1...ssenger-reportedly-hit-with-shrapnel.amp.html

I listened to the ATC tape of the incident and the flight deck crew performed in an extremely professional manner.

Lots of possible reasons why the fan blade(s) may have failed. I’ve seen many in the USAF/USN in my career.

I think the fatality was not the person in the window. I’ve read it was different passenger who suffered a heart attack.

Cheers

 

[davidvel]

Jeez, you guys sure jinxed Southwest with all that safety talk.

 

[Sapper]

Another story with more pictures.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/1...ssenger-reportedly-hit-with-shrapnel.amp.html

I listened to the ATC tape of the incident and the flight deck crew performed in an extremely professional manner.

Lots of possible reasons why the fan blade(s) may have failed. I’ve seen many in the USAF/USN in my career.

I think the fatality was not the person in the window. I’ve read it was different passenger who suffered a heart attack.

Cheers

I'm not so concerned about the fan blade failing, I am concerned about the fragment containment ring failing. The only thing I can think of is that something caused multiple blades to fail at the same time and they caused a failure of the ring. So, then, what would cause multiple blades to fail at the same time? Something with the shaft?

Glad they made it down safely.

 

[Sapper]

Jeez, you guys sure jinxed Southwest with all that safety talk.

Bad timing?

By the way, this would be the first customer fatality caused by SouthWest ever. They have had employees die, and they have had passengers kill another passenger, but the airline has never killed a passenger until now.

 

[davidvel]

Bad timing?

By the way, this would be the first customer fatality caused by SouthWest ever. They have had employees die, and they have had passengers kill another passenger, but the airline has never killed a passenger until now.

They did kill a young passenger in a car at a gas station near Midway, but I know what you meant.

Yes, truly an incredible record with the number of flights per day, over all those years. I can't imagine the number of miles without a passenger death. Simply mind boggling.

As noted above, commercial aircraft are truly simple machines at their heart, despite the utter complexities of all the systems. The 737 embodies the phrase "work horse."

 

[x3 skier]

I'm not so concerned about the fan blade failing, I am concerned about the fragment containment ring failing. The only thing I can think of is that something caused multiple blades to fail at the same time and they caused a failure of the ring. So, then, what would cause multiple blades to fail at the same time? Something with the shaft?

Glad they made it down safely.

The NTSB has released a tape of the initial walk around inspection after landing. (Ignore the date and spelling of Philadelphia)

It appears only one blade missing but it’s hard to tell. Another SWA 737 lost the whole front of the nacelle from a single blade failure IIRC. Containment testing is done during certification when a single blade is intentionally failed at max power. Any multiple blade failures are not required to be contained.

I’ve seen fractures of the disc that released two adjacent blades but this doesn’t look like that from the video, but again, hard to tell.

I personally avoid sitting near the plane of the engine Fan/Turbine if possible and always stay buckled in. Since I’m much more likely to have an auto accident on the way to/from the airport, I really don’t worry about having a truly bad day in an airplane.

Cheers

 

[Sapper]

They did kill a young passenger in a car at a gas station near Midway, but I know what you meant.

Yes, truly an incredible record with the number of flights per day, over all those years. I can't imagine the number of miles without a passenger death. Simply mind boggling.

As noted above, commercial aircraft are truly simple machines at their heart, despite the utter complexities of all the systems. The 737 embodies the phrase "work horse."

Not a customer though.

I remember when that happened. The aircraft came to rest at a gas station. When the attendant called his boss, the boss thought the attendant was drunk and told him to "go fill her up".

An unbelieveable record on SouthWest's part. I'm sorry it ended.

 

[Sapper]

The NTSB has released a tape of the initial walk around inspection after landing. (Ignore the date and spelling of Philadelphia)

It appears only one blade missing but it’s hard to tell. Another SWA 737 lost the whole front of the nacelle from a single blade failure IIRC. Containment testing is done during certification when a single blade is intentionally failed at max power. Any multiple blade failures are not required to be contained.

I’ve seen fractures of the disc that released two adjacent blades but this doesn’t look like that from the video, but again, hard to tell.

I personally avoid sitting near the plane of the engine Fan/Turbine if possible and always stay buckled in. Since I’m much more likely to have an auto accident on the way to/from the airport, I really don’t worry about having a truly bad day in an airplane.

Cheers

It's not playing on my old iPad, I'll look when I get to a real computer. Thanks.

I know it's tested to contain a single blade, which is why I was thinking multiple blade failure. If truly a single blade, then the next question is how did it fail in a way that defeated the containment ring?

Unfortunately, the area you are talking about is where they put the seats with additional leg room. I know exactly what you are talking about though because whenever I sit there and look out the window, I think to my self "what if".

 

[MULTIZ321]

Southwest, Delta and United all had Emergency Landings Today. Here's Why They Should Make You Feel Great About Flying.

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/...-should-make-you-feel-great-about-flying.html


Richard

 

[MULTIZ321]

My Life Became Entwined With a Stranger in a Tense Mid-air Drama

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ined-with-a-stranger-in-a-tense-mid-air-drama


Richard

 

[rapmarks]

And I am stuck on simpsontruckdriver flying for business.

 

[davidvel]

And I am stuck on simpsontruckdriver flying for business.

I just hope he doesn't talk about how there have not been any big earthquakes in CA in a long time. . .

 

[MULTIZ321]

These Pilots Say the Captain of Southwest Flight 1380 Wasn't Really a Hero. Here's What I Say to Them
By Bill Murphy Jr./ Executive Editor of Operations/ Some Spider/ Lead/ Inc./ inc.com

"I've got two words, and the second one is "you."

Most people are calling Southwest Airlines Captain Tammie Jo Shults a true hero after the emergency landing of Flight 1380 this week. However, there's also a minority opinion on social media, including at least some professional pilots, who think she's been given too many accolades.

It's no majority by any means, but it's a noticeable, dissenting, cynical group, offering faint praise at best. Their suggestion, if I can boil it down into a single sentence, is that the rest of us non-pilots are over-impressed because we're ignorant of what goes on every day at 35,000 feet, and thus we don't know what true heroism in the skies really is. Examples:

• A commenter on Ask the Pilot, writing that the media was incorrectly "hailing the captain as some sort of superhero ... as if this was the sort of emergency that isn't planned for and practiced in every simulator check."
• Another commenter: "Not to be too curmudgeonly, she's not a hero. She just did her job."
• On Twitter: "No surprise. That's our job. Most pilots will act calmly. We train for that. Not to take any merit, but just doing the job."
  
  

• On Twitter: "No surprise. That's our job. Most pilots will act calmly. We train for that. Not to take any merit, but just doing the job."

There's a lot more out there, but you get the point. Again, not a majority--and in some cases there's a clear sexist undercurrent. But elsewhere, it sounds more like a kind of resentment, or sadness, especially when it comes from those who claim or appear to be professional pilots.

I was stuck on these comments for a while earlier today, trying to decide how to respond. And after thinking it through, I have only two words to offer to the professionals voicing this kind of sentiment: Thank you...."

CREDIT: Getty Images


Richard

 

[MULTIZ321]

Images From Terrifying Southwest Flight Show Passengers Didn't Put Oxygen Masks On Right
By William Cummings/ USA Today/ News/ Nation/ usatoday.com

"The airline safety demonstrations at the beginning of flights have become so routine for fliers that many hardly pay them any attention.

But images captured on Southwest Flight 1380 before the plane made an emergency landing shows that travelers need to start looking up from their smartphones when the flight attendant is speaking.

A shot shared by passenger Marty Martinez shows him and other passengers wearing their masks over their mouths. But when the oxygen masks are deployed, passengers are supposed to place them over both their noses and mouths.

Properly wearing an oxygen mask is important in a situation where a plane suddenly has a dramatic drop in cabin pressure...."

(Photo: Marty Martinez, AP)


Richard

 

[Luanne]

I don't care if there are those who say she was just "doing her job". That she had trained on simulators for just this situation. Until something like that really happens, no one knows what the response will be. And even though there are simulators, do they account for every instance that might happen? In my mind, she is a hero.

 

[silentg]

Will this make any of you stop air travel? I will still travel by plane and on this airline. Things happen. You never know what circumstances will arise, in any form of transportation there are risks.
So much of the world I haven’t seen yet and look forward to my next vacation!
Silentg

 

[Luanne]

Will this make any of you stop air travel? I will still travel by plane and on this airline. Things happen. You never know what circumstances will arise, in any form of transportation there are risks.
So much of the world I haven’t seen yet and look forward to my next vacation!
Silentg

No, I'll still fly. And I'll still fly Southwest.

 

[Tamino]

She did nothing other than what she was expected to do. Nice work but there are thousands of other commercial airline captains who would have done equally as well.

 

[Luanne]

She did nothing other than what she was expected to do. Nice work but there are thousands of other commercial airline captains who would have done equally as well.

I will repeat what I posted earlier.

I don't care if there are those who say she was just "doing her job". That she had trained on simulators for just this situation. Until something like that really happens, no one knows what the response will be. And even though there are simulators, do they account for every instance that might happen? In my mind, she is a hero.

 

[x3 skier]

Hero is an overused word by the media these days.

Definitely well done and kudos to the entire crew but if you ask any pilot who has handled an in-flight emergency, the overwhelming response is that’s what we train for over and over again. There’s a reason Capt. Shults hasn’t been heard from as yet. She probably doesn’t want all the hoopla.

When my single engine failed in the plane with my very pregnant wife and young daughter aboard and I landed successfully with no further damage nor any injury, I sure didn’t think I was a hero.

Does anybody know the name of the SWA Captain and crew who successfully handled another almost identical failure? I doubt it and he probably likes it that way

Cheers

 

[Luanne]

Hero is an overused word by the media these days.

Definitely well done and kudos to the entire crew but if you ask any pilot who has handled an in-flight emergency, the overwhelming response is that’s what we train for over and over again. There’s a reason Capt. Shults hasn’t been heard from as yet. She probably doesn’t want all the hoopla.

When my single engine failed in the plane with my very pregnant wife and young daughter aboard and I landed successfully with no further damage nor any injury, I sure didn’t think I was a hero.

Does anybody know the name of the SWA Captain and crew who successfully handled another almost identical failure? I doubt it and he probably likes it that way

Cheers

All I'll say is, to the people on that flight who thought they were going to die and landed safely on the ground............she is a hero.

Did you ever ask your pregnant wife and daughter if they thought you were a hero when you got them safely to ground? You may not have felt you were, but they might have a different view.

 

[Passepartout]

Captain Shults may well have just been doing the job she was trained to do and had practiced numerous times, but in the minds of those passengers, who had experienced something THEY had not trained for nor had experienced before. When she greeted each passenger after the landing, SHE was the face of Southwest, and they won't forget it.

Jim

 

[x3 skier]

All I'll say is, to the people on that flight who thought they were going to die and landed safely on the ground............she is a hero.

Did you ever ask your pregnant wife and daughter if they thought you were a hero when you got them safely to ground? You may not have felt you were, but they might have a different view.

No clue if they thought that way but the real heros on the flight were the two gentlemen who pulled the poor victim back into the plane. They had no idea if they also would have been pulled out of the airplane and suffered the same fate. But they still came the rescue of the woman.

Military members are decorated for actions “above and beyond” what is normally expected. Those two gentlemen certainly did that.

Cheers

 

[davidvel]

I think it all depends on what one deems to be a hero. Some believe just putting yourself in a situation that likely could be life-threatening makes you a hero. Some think that you have to do something extraordinary or superhuman. Some think that merely saving a life makes you a hero. Some think that having something bad happen to you (ie a mass shooting) makes you a hero. Others think throwing the superbowl winning pass or banging the World Cup winning goal makes you a hero.

Some think that a hero puts themselves directly into harms way, in the face of that actually occurring harm, with little regard for their own safety in an actual effort to help others, whether that is successful or not. (ie. jumping on a grenade to help a group survive, or jumping on a lunatic with a gun to try and stop him.) This is generally my definition of hero.

I have never piloted a plane, but have studied aircraft and accidents for a long time. I think the point being made by these pilots is that what was done (landing an aircraft with one engine (and window) blown out) and no other major mechanical issues at that altitude is simply not that difficult of a feat for a trained jet pilot. To the contrary, a failure to safely bring the plane to the ground in those circumstances would be considered a failure by the pilot. For many, this is crazy talk and unthinkable, assuming only that the plane should have fallen like a rock and the pilot did something amazing for that not to happen.

In those circumstances, those that understand what she actually had to do don't consider her to be a "hero."

If people are being sexist, that's stupid. ETA: And sadly, this has now devloved into another social media, us vs. them, men vs. women, "victim triumph" causes.

 

[MULTIZ321]

Images From Terrifying Southwest Flight Show Passengers Didn't Put Oxygen Masks On Right
By William Cummings/ USA Today/ News/ Nation/ usatoday.com

"The airline safety demonstrations at the beginning of flights have become so routine for fliers that many hardly pay them any attention.

But images captured on Southwest Flight 1380 before the plane made an emergency landing shows that travelers need to start looking up from their smartphones when the flight attendant is speaking.

A shot shared by passenger Marty Martinez shows him and other passengers wearing their masks over their mouths. But when the oxygen masks are deployed, passengers are supposed to place them over both their noses and mouths.

Properly wearing an oxygen mask is important in a situation where a plane suddenly has a dramatic drop in cabin pressure...."

(Photo: Marty Martinez, AP)


Richard

A Lot of People Wore Their Oxygen Masks Wrong During the Southwest Emergency Landing
By Thom Patterson/CNN/ Health/ cnn.com


"(CNN)Should you ever find yourself flying in a crippled airliner with an open window at 30,000 feet, knowing how to operate your oxygen mask could be vital.

But many passengers aboard Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 on Tuesday appeared to be doing it wrong, social media posts show, despite instructions delivered for years by flight attendants before every takeoff.
Video taken during the flight and posted by Marty Martinez, for instance, shows passengers clearly weren't putting their noses inside the mask, even though that's a key part of the pre-flight tutorial.

Why's it a big deal? Well, there's less oxygen in the air above 10,000 feet. And without enough oxygen, people risk developing hypoxia. Symptoms include headaches, dizziness, tunnel vision and nausea.

Airline and hospital officials haven't said whether anyone experienced hypoxia when the flight -- en route from New York to Dallas with 144 passengers and five crew members -- lost pressurization after part of the Boeing 737-700's engine shot through a cabin window.

The masks deployed as the pressurized air rushed outside the jet. One woman died of injuries she suffered after she was nearly sucked out a window. Seven others were treated for minor injuries, though it's not clear whether any happened because the passengers wore their masks wrong...."

Some passengers appeared to be wear their masks wrong.


Richard