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Anyone own DVC aswell as Marriott?

Discussion in 'Marriott Vacation Club' started by Gemini Chica, May 14, 2019 at 2:08 PM.

  1. jojo777

    jojo777 TUG Member

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    I own Disney. I have stayed in Old Key west, Disney's Vero Beach, Saratoga Springs and the Tree Houses, Boardwalk Villas, Bay Lake Tower.
    I have stayed at Marriott Dessert Springs, Marriott Grand Vista, Marriott Oceana Palms, Frenshman's Cove, Atlantis. I think they are both great and they are bout the same level depending on property. I find the Marriotts larger in most cases, but I love them all. You cant beat staying on property in Disney, but I have also stayed off property and enjoyed it as well.
     
  2. frank808

    frank808 TUG Member

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    Owning both mvc and dvc our family prefers mko over aulani. Love the biger rooms and less crowded resort compared to aulani. A big turnoff for my wife is the master bedroom door at aulani is louvered instead of solid wood so it allows sound from living room into masterd bedroom. MKO (marriott koolina) kitchens are better equipped and have more of what you would need to cook in your condo than what dvc provides. Also there are only 4 grills to use at aulani and they are only available for use(if i remember correctly ) between 4 to 9 pm daily.

    But to each there own. What works for me, will be opposite of you. That is the value of timeshares....to each their own.

    Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk
     
  3. dansimms

    dansimms TUG Member

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    I have heard that the Disney properties hold their resale value far better than MVCI, which probably, on average , could be sold back at only 10 to 15 cents on the dollar. When compared to the original purchase price when they were sold as Legacy weeks. Is that true ?
     
  4. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    It has been if you look at developer purchases but it's not a function of resort quality but rather the park draw and the Disney name. DVC took just about as big a hit back with the downturn as everything else. But if you're buying resale it's also a lot more expensive both up front and in many cases, year by year. They are different animals, I wouldn't buy because of resale value, I'd buy a good product that actually gives me what I wanted over the years while minimizing potential risks. DVC, esp resale, is a great product for on property stays and due to the nature of the room types and points system, it can be very cost effective compared to staying on property on cash.

    They do different things and have resorts in different locations. Disney is a horrible product for non DVC locations through RCI or other exchange options and IMO, the DVC HH & VB offer no benefits over Marriott but are decent resorts. For HHI, I think Marriott is far better if you compare to the beach front resorts, about equal if looking at the Sea Pines resorts (slightly better resort but worse location) and superior to HP/SP at the same basic location. Comparing VB to say Ocean Pointe, I think OP is better but they have a different feel. I'd only buy DVC for DVC stays, mostly WDW or DL but buying Aulani can be a good choice for many if that is their focus. But I'd say the same for Marriott, buy something that actually works and makes sense for the situation. The exchange options are far better for Marriott and for most, actually included in their decision making, less so for DVC other than internal points exchanges.
     
  5. Big Matt

    Big Matt TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I've stayed at most of the Disney properties in Orlando, and visited Aulani and Hilton Head. I've been to all of the major MVC resort timeshares in the US including Maui and Oahu.

    Unit Size - Marriott larger and have larger living spaces.
    Unit Quality - depends on where each are on the refurb cycle. I've stayed at resorts in both systems that were great and others that were tired with stained furniture, broken stuff
    Activities - Marriott much better
    Surrounding area - DVC in Orlando by a wide margin because of Disney World. It simply can't be replicated. Not so much at Aulani and on Hilton Head. I hate the entire Ko Olina area BTW
    Food - Disney much better IMO. Real restaurants, etc.

    I actually really like both Saratoga Springs and Old Key West. It's really nice to be able to take a quick boat ride from SS to Disney Springs. OKW is just a great environment and the restaurant is good. Wilderness Lodge is my favorite just for the vibe. I will say that Grande Ocean is better than any Disney resort (I've not been to the DVC in Vero Beach).
     
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  6. tahoe

    tahoe TUG Member

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    I'm curious how DVC properties maintain their value - aren't they effectively a lease with an end date? (i.e. the worth of the timeshare contract should diminish every year.) How to extensions work? Does Disney an extension fee?

    TIA.
     
  7. bazzap

    bazzap Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Most MVC resorts outside of the US are Right to Use (RTU) with an end date.
    At that time, I understand the property goes to the land owner (with the value of any assets sold shared amongst owners?) or if the lease is renewed then the usage of the weeks for the owners will still continue.
    I don’t believe there is any further cost associated with an extension beyond ongoing MFs?
     
  8. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    Yes, all RTU. IMO the answer is the Disney name and the park draw.
     
  9. heathpack

    heathpack Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Disney’s Grand Californian and Hilton Head Island
    Marriott Barony Beach and Mountainside
    Sheraton Broadway Plantation
    My DVCs have either held their value (Hilton Head Island) or appreciated (Villas at Grand Californian). The VGC is crazy, I bought it resale 8 years ago and it’s now worth 2.5 times what I paid for it.

    All my other timeshares were bought resale as well- Hyatt and Marriott- and they’ve depreciated.

    The DVC good times wont necessarily go on forever. As the contracts approach expiration, they’ll become worth less. But I’ll probably only hold the contracts for another 20 years max. For Hilton Head, I’ll probably hold til expiration, so resale will be zero. For VGC, I’ll probably sell with 20 years left on the contract so it should have some resale value still.

    Also, DVC has recently made moves that will undermine resale value for new resorts. There’s a chance they could extend this to old resorts as well. So the strong resale value is nice, but nothing you can count on in the future.
     
  10. Gemini Chica

    Gemini Chica TUG Member

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    Some of the DVC only have 22 years left on usage. The Riveria one they are plugging that opens this year has RTU til 2070 and copper creek 2068.

    This is normal to us Europeans as Marbella RTU is until 2076 and Playa is 2052 (I think!!).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. bazzap

    bazzap Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Yes, the RTU end dates in Europe are
    Marbella Beach Resort 2076
    Playa Andaluza 2052
    Club Son Antem 2078
    and in Asia
    Phuket Beach Club 2081
     
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  12. tahoe

    tahoe TUG Member

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    Thanks for explaining. I guess DVC has some serious pixie dust.
     
  13. SabresFan

    SabresFan TUG Member

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    Also, if you buy resale at the "legacy resorts" (any of the resorts built before Riviera), you can't use those points at Riviera or any newer DVC resort. All resale points among all the legacy resorts can still be used anywhere in that group, subject to the 7 month booking window. So as some of the older resorts age out (starting in 2042), even newer legacy resorts will have fewer booking options.

    DVC used to treat resale owners exactly the same as developer points, and lucky for me the first resale contract I bought was grandfathered with the full range of benefits. But there is a growing list of things you can't get if you buy resale today - can't attend the DVC special events like Moonlight Magic, can't get into the DVC lounge at Epcot, can't book Disney Cruise or Adventures By Disney, and now can't use your points at the newest resorts.
     
  14. SabresFan

    SabresFan TUG Member

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    Yes, I personally own only DVC. DVC is excellent for us, because we go to the parks and stay all day - typically 12 to 14 hours every day. We have never been to any other attraction in the Orlando area outside of Disney World - no Universal or Sea World or anything else. So for people like us, DVC is clearly superior to every other option if all you want to do is spend as much time in the Disney parks as possible. Apparently there is a large population of people that feel the same way.
    I'd love to buy more DVC points, but the price is just nuts to me, even in resale - typically at least $100 per point, while I bought in at $60 per point resale. So now I am looking at non-DVC resorts.
    I will say that for me, a timeshare is part of the overall vacation experience, and a means to an end. When I go on vacation, I want to do fun stuff, and I'd like my sleeping area to be close to the fun stuff. The luxuriousness of the sleeping area doesn't matter that much to me, as long as it's clean and comfortable.
     
  15. 4Sunsets

    4Sunsets Guest

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    Aulani is overcrowded typically and with everything right out in the sun. Aulani rooms are smaller than KoOlina. Generally speaking, the views from Aulani aren't as nice as view rooms at KoOlina. KoOlina is a much more expansive property with more pool and entertainment options.
     
    tahoe likes this.
  16. JohnB3

    JohnB3 TUG Member

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    DVC - SSR
    VV - Grandview
    MHB - Marriott Willow Ridge
    We own both, We bought DVC to address a disney addiction in the family :) it does a great job of that. We did use our SSR points to visit Aulani last year and had a nice visit. I think resale value is a nice feature of DVC supported by, an up until now, aggressive ROFR by Disney. I've always thought about the resale value as making it easier to end my relationship with DVC when I'm ready and perhaps I will be able to recoup some or all of my initial investment. My resale DVC cost a lot more to buy and has comparable maintenance fees to my MVC. I think Marriott has much better choices when I don't want to use my home resort and is at least comparable to DVC in quality (and in some cases better, I don't assign much value to the disney theme, but others in my house do :)). I got my Marriott week for free so I have a lot less invested in Marriott, I expect to be able to give it away when I'm done with it so I don't expect Disney has any real advantage there. I ended up deciding I needed both to be able to take the vacations we wanted but I also enjoy playing the trading game so Marriott (and an RCI trader) are part of my portfolio.
     
  17. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    DVC is also very active with ROFR, so that may also help with resale values. Some say they are active in order to protect their core product and prevent people from buying in cheap and possibly undercutting their other non timeshare properties.
     
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  18. JohnB3

    JohnB3 TUG Member

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    I think they use ROFR to support developer pricing as well. The recent reduction in benefits for resale and the ROFR process keep some resale buyers at least considering developer purchases and I expect the dynamic to change quite a bit for resale with Rivera and other new resorts going forward. It looks to me like Rivera might be much like a normal timeshare if aquired as a resale. Given how those restrictions are likely to workout I don’t think I’d be interested in owning Rivera resale even for free


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  19. Ralph Sir Edward

    Ralph Sir Edward TUG Member

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    I suspect that Disney uses the park related timeshares as "loss leaders" for the parks, which is why the aggressive ROFR. The more you stay in the parks the more profit to Disney. Therefore, the profit is not from the up front sales, but from the ongoing theme park business(per unit).

    Either way, Disney gets the profit. No other timeshare has this sort of profit linkage, although Marriott is trying to do something with the massive transfer fee for points. (20-30% of the retail price for a resale.)
     
  20. PcflEZFlng

    PcflEZFlng TUG Member

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    I've owned both DVC and Vistana for about 15 years. For me, the quality of the resorts themselves are about the same (excellent). It turns out I've used Vistana more regularly and effectively over the years, mainly due to the proximity of resorts to where I live and ease to get to. They always say to buy where you plan to stay, and that turned out to be especially true for me. DVC is fabulous and cost-effective for those who regularly go to WDW, especially if you buy resale. If I still wanted to go to WDW and didn't already own DVC, I would buy it (resale at a legacy resort) in a heartbeat.

    The 'perks' that come with developer-bought points are not worth the extra cost of buying retail. For example, I took a Disney cruise using points when I would have been much further ahead (by thousands of dollars) by renting out the points and paying cash for the cruise. Similarly, one would be much better off not exchanging points for hotel stays but instead renting out the points and paying cash for the rooms. Lessons learned.
     
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  21. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    I would estimate that there are times when ROFR has been a major issue and times when it has not and it's likely been roughly 50/50 over the years. Right now I it likely doesn't make any difference. But it's not the price itself as much as the uncertainty that ROFR brings to the table with DVC. What ROFR does otherwise is prevent the fire sales.
     
  22. SabresFan

    SabresFan TUG Member

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    I do think that was the case when they first built it, but not now. Original purchases of Old Key West included free annual passes for a number of years, free valet parking was standard at all the DVC resorts for years, etc. It's also why there's stuff like Wyndham Bonnet Creek - when they first built Disney World they didn't have all the capital to support everything at the beginning, and they wanted to spread the risk around.

    The profit margin on new developer sales has to be massive at this point - almost certainly the most profitable in the industry. The land is basically free - they already own all of it. The only reason it took them so long to realize the profit potential is that the overall DVC is basically a drop in the bucket compared to the entire Disney Corporation - no senior executive likely ever gave it much thought. When they ROFR something, they buy it around $100 per point and sell it off at $150 to $175 per point. The only work they need to do for that is some paperwork - they almost certainly have current DVC owners looking to add on at older resorts, or maybe people who balk at $200 per point for Riviera but can be sold $150 per point at Saratoga. So they sell it a few weeks after buying it at a big profit. They don't just stockpile it, at least they didn't when the market was much softer.
     
  23. SabresFan

    SabresFan TUG Member

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    For a while they did offer extensions on Old Key West - most people did not take them up on the offer. I think they were asking around $25 per point to extend the end date from 2042 to 2057. So you will see most resale OKW contracts have an expiration date of 2042, while a small percentage expire 2057.

    If they current crazy demand for DVC continues, I can't imagine why Disney would even consider offering an extension. When the contract expires, they get an entire resort that they can try to sell for $200 or more per point, with the only expense to them being some renovations. IMHO, there is no chance whatsoever that they offer an extension at places like Boardwalk, Beach Club or Bay Lake - those locations are far too valuable. Maybe Saratoga Springs, unless they had plans to tear it all down and divide it up into two or three smaller resorts.
     
  24. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    Point of clarification, all valet parking was free when OKW was opened, they just didn't stop that perk immediately when it went away for the hotels.

    DVC/DVD is a separate company, I doubt the land is free to them, at least from a spreadsheet standpoint. Since their main business (DVD) and main focus is new sales, they use ROFR mainly to drive people to retail, not for additional profit though I'm sure they don't mind additional profit. To match their profit on additional sales, they'e likely have to pass $100 pp in profit thus buying back at less. If they did so actively with a direct purchase, they'd need it at a substantial discount to the ROFR price, let's say 70% of the ROFR price. While they'll have a few people looking to buy specific resorts, the only way this even works is if they push the retail resort and reserve the acquired pints for those that insist on them, thus volume needed is relatively small, esp at OKW & SSR.
     
  25. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    The original offer was $25 with a discount down to $15, at the time the real value of the extension was in the $7-8 pp range. That and the heavy handed way they did it plus the long time frame put people off. By reports under 1/3 extended, by 2042 I'd estimate that around 1/2 of the points will be owned by members as 2057 RTU and the rest (still 2057) will be owned by DVD. To me that'd scare me if I still owned OKW, too much risk and too many variables for dues to go way up and for usage issues. My biggest concern is they'll use it like they did the THV prior to the DVD acquisition, as college housing.
     

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