Are the Destination Points Charts a Fraud? [Minimum Stay Booking Requirements]

[bobpark56]

New to the DP program here. Looking to book a 4-night stay. I'm finding that quite a number of resorts require a minimum 7-night stay...something the sales folks never informed us about. They told us we could book midweek stays and never mentioned any restrictions. Is there something here I do not understand? Or were we misled?

 

[davidvel]

New to the DP program here. Looking to book a 4-night stay. I'm finding that quite a number of resorts require a minimum 7-night stay...something the sales folks never informed us about. They told us we could book midweek stays and never mentioned any restrictions. Is there something here I do not understand? Or were we misled?

It's late so I'll give it my best try. If you can rescind, do it today.

Your title asks if the points charts are a fraud. As far as I know the charts and the numbers needed as shown on them are not, and no one has asserted that they are a fraud.

As for your question, there are restrictions as to when you can book less than 7 days out. I'm unaware of minimum 7 day stays otherwise. Many others will describe this in more detail as I never bought DC points.

If you were told you could book these partial weeks, and no one told you there were restrictions, you could have a claim for fraudulent inducement depending on where you live, despite any language in the contract. But you will be fighting Marriott. You should consult a reputable attorney on this issue.

 

[nicolass]

New to the DP program here. Looking to book a 4-night stay. I'm finding that quite a number of resorts require a minimum 7-night stay...something the sales folks never informed us about. They told us we could book midweek stays and never mentioned any restrictions. Is there something here I do not understand? Or were we misled?

In which resorts do you experience this?

 

[bazzap]

At the Owner and Select levels, i.e with less than 7,000 DC points, you can only book less than 7 nights within 10 months of required check in date.
If you have more than 7,000 DC Points, you can book less than 7 nights up to 13 months out.
(I would have attached the link to the “Owner Benefits at a Glance” chart which shows this, but the MVC websites are going through yet another update and my previous link no longer works!)

 

[Fasttr]

At the Owner and Select levels, i.e with less than 7,000 DC points, you can only book less than 7 nights within 10 months of required check in date.
If you have more than 7,000 DC Points, you can book less than 7 nights up to 13 months out.
(I would have attached the link to the “Owner Benefits at a Glance” chart which shows this, but the MVC websites are going through yet another update and my previous link no longer works!)

Here is the new link.... https://www.marriottvacationsworldw...rshipLevelsResources/benefits_at_a_glance.pdf

 

[catharsis]

Here is the new link.... https://www.marriottvacationsworldw...rshipLevelsResources/benefits_at_a_glance.pdf

But as mentioned in other threads it is now becoming quite a regular occurrence to find that individual resorts are placing minimum stay restrictions in place which override the owner benefit levels and require up to 7 night minimum stays ... Even when booking under 60 days out.

So the OP has a point.

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[vacationhopeful]

Breakage happens for short stays ... plus higher cost to the resort for resets units multiple times when everything at the resort was reset ONLY once a week on a particular day of the week in "ancient" times.

But the modern total universe did change AS did vacations .. no more 2 week plant shut downs for 'retooling' or fixed seasonal closing for stores or plants ... to enjoy the holiday or plant the fields. A trip via car to FL is now an short flight .... days of travel into hours. Once is a lifetime is now every year or so.

Reverting back to ONLY a 7 night stay ... if that is happening, might be trying to minimize operating costs as to increase profits, higher owner satisfaction OR my favorite, the resort got sued.

 

[catharsis]

Breakage happens for short stays ... plus higher cost to the resort for resets units multiple times when everything at the resort was reset ONLY once a week on a particular day of the week in "ancient" times.

But the modern total universe did change AS did vacations .. no more 2 week plant shut downs for 'retooling' or fixed seasonal closing for stores or plants ... to enjoy the holiday or plant the fields. A trip via car to FL is now an short flight .... days of travel into hours. Once is a lifetime is now every year or so.

Reverting back to ONLY a 7 night stay ... if that is happening, might be trying to minimize operating costs as to increase profits, higher owner satisfaction OR my favorite, the resort got sued.

Except the justification for the 'skim' was to cover the cost of said breakage, so breakage cannot be used as a justification for restrictions on points

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[icydog]

Breakage happens for short stays ... plus higher cost to the resort for resets units multiple times when everything at the resort was reset ONLY once a week on a particular day of the week in "ancient" times.

But the modern total universe did change AS did vacations .. no more 2 week plant shut downs for 'retooling' or fixed seasonal closing for stores or plants ... to enjoy the holiday or plant the fields. A trip via car to FL is now an short flight .... days of travel into hours. Once is a lifetime is now every year or so.

Reverting back to ONLY a 7 night stay ... if that is happening, might be trying to minimize operating costs as to increase profits, higher owner satisfaction OR my favorite, the resort got sued.

I don't know how this could be happening since the benefit for Chairman's Club is that you can book 13 months out for 1+ nights. I think this is a rumor and I do not see it happening.

 

[bobpark56]

At the Owner and Select levels, i.e with less than 7,000 DC points, you can only book less than 7 nights within 10 months of required check in date.
If you have more than 7,000 DC Points, you can book less than 7 nights up to 13 months out.
(I would have attached the link to the “Owner Benefits at a Glance” chart which shows this, but the MVC websites are going through yet another update and my previous link no longer works!)

Thanks. That 10-month window explains what I was seeing. It's interesting that the sales rep did not tell us about this. Newbies won't know unless someone tells them.

 

[catharsis]

I have posted specific live examples a number if times in last few weeks expressly so that anyone who wanted could verify for themselves.
[edited to add] I thought some live screenshots might help




I did this so that there could no longer be any basis to suggest this was only a rumor

 

[bobpark56]

It's late so I'll give it my best try. If you can rescind, do it today. <snip>

No need to rescind. It was a free enrollment...and they gave us $75.
I have just been trying to figure out how to use our new options. I was not aware of the 10-month window for booking short stays. Now that a responder or 2 has pointed that out, I understand what I am seeing.

 

[kds4]

I have posted specific live examples a number if times in last few weeks expressly so that anyone who wanted could verify for themselves.
[edited to add] I thought some live screenshots might help




I did this so that there could no longer be any basis to suggest this was only a rumor

Having seen the proof you provided, I don't see a way for MVCI to deny this is happening and it is clearly contrary to the advertised ability to book 1+ night intervals. While this has not happened to me yet, as soon as it does I will be raising it with MVCI.

 

[BocaBoy]

Perhaps it would be good to ask MVCI what is causing this apparent anomaly to be seen, rather than immediately assuming nefarious motives? I don't know if there is an innocent explanation or not, but I would surely want to find out before drawing battle lines.

 

[Steve Fatula]

I have posted specific live examples a number if times in last few weeks expressly so that anyone who wanted could verify for themselves.
[edited to add] I thought some live screenshots might help

I did this so that there could no longer be any basis to suggest this was only a rumor

Even today, Sabal Palms, an example you had posted, June 8 via points, 1 night, not available. 7 nights, available.

 

[catharsis]

Perhaps it would be good to ask MVCI what is causing this apparent anomaly to be seen, rather than immediately assuming nefarious motives? I don't know if there is an innocent explanation or not, but I would surely want to find out before drawing battle lines.

Just to be clear I'm not drawing battle lines and one can work around it as mentioned in other threads simply by booking lots of nights and then cancelling the ones one doesn't want.

OTOH it's becoming fairly commonplace in my experience, so while I'm not suggesting a nefarious motive nor would it be reasonable to call it an anomaly since it is not 'unusual' or 'out of the ordinary' which I would consider to be the usual meaning of anomaly.

 

[VacationForever]

Just to be clear I'm not drawing battle lines and one can work around it as mentioned in other threads simply by booking lots of nights and then cancelling the ones one doesn't want.

OTOH it's becoming fairly commonplace in my experience, so while I'm not suggesting a nefarious motive nor would it be reasonable to call it an anomaly since it is not 'unusual' or 'out of the ordinary' which I would consider to be the usual meaning of anomaly.

I also discover the same issue when booking at Newport Coast for 3 days vs 5 days vs. 7 days in Sep.

 

[kds4]

Just to be clear I'm not drawing battle lines and one can work around it as mentioned in other threads simply by booking lots of nights and then cancelling the ones one doesn't want.

OTOH it's becoming fairly commonplace in my experience, so while I'm not suggesting a nefarious motive nor would it be reasonable to call it an anomaly since it is not 'unusual' or 'out of the ordinary' which I would consider to be the usual meaning of anomaly.

I'm glad there is a 'work-around', but should an owner have to resort to a work around to exercise their ownership? I'm guessing everyone would agree that this should not be necessary.

 

[JIMinNC]

As I recall, the Reservations Procedures do give MVC some leeway in establishing minimum stay requirements during certain holiday periods and other high demand periods, although I think they may require that those limitations be disclosed in the points schedule. Not 100% sure on all that though.

Our recent stay at Grande Ocean, which concluded last weekend, was an indirect result of such a minimum stay anomaly. Last September, I had first reserved Barony Beach Club for a three-night stay (Fri, Sat, Sun) for the weekend of the RBC Heritage golf tournament after first checking Grande Ocean and finding that Grande Ocean was not available for those three nights. But after looking some more, I found Grande Ocean WAS available for those same three nights if booked as part of a full week Fri-Fri booking. After thinking about it, we decided we could go for the full week, so I cancelled the three nights at Barony and booked GO for the full 7 night Fri-Fri stay.

 

[CA Richard]

I recently ran into the same thing last month booking Desert Springs for next March. I’m Chairman’s Club. I was initially looking for a 1BR for a Sunday to Friday five night stay to take advantage of the lower points on Sunday through Thursday nights. No availability in March. Then I put in a 7 night stay and the same week was available! It did not make sense that the same week was available for 7 nights but not 5. I thought about calling reservations but decided it would be easier to drive home on Sunday morning rather than Friday anyway so I booked the whole week. But it did cause me to pause and wonder what is going on.

 

[catharsis]

in the last 40 minutes we've confirmed it's a practice in Sabal Palms, Ko Olina (based upon a previous post of mine) NCV, DSV and Grand Ocean.

That's not an anomaly....

 

[kds4]

I agree, this sounds less and less like an anomaly. I think it may be time to review the ownership documents to see where it says this is an allowable practice...

 

[Fasttr]

I agree, this sounds less and less like an anomaly. I think it may be time to review the ownership documents to see where it says this is an allowable practice...

Excerpts from the Exchange Docs, Schedule "2", sections A, B and C....as more fully documented at this link... https://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/enrollment_legal_docs/exchange_procedures.pdf

...Except as otherwise provided in these Exchange Procedures, and subject to applicable minimum duration of stays for certain Markets or at certain Components as shown on the Exchange Point Schedule, there are no minimum length-of-stay requirements for Use Periods reserved by Executive Members, Presidential Members and Chairman’s Club Members during the Priority 1 Period.

...Except as otherwise provided in these Exchange Procedures, and subject to applicable minimum duration of stays for certain Markets or at certain Components as shown on the Exchange Point Schedule, there are no minimum length-of-stay requirements for Use Periods reserved by Executive Members, Presidential Members and Chairman’s Club Members during the Priority 2 Period.

...Except as otherwise provided in these Exchange Procedures, and subject to applicable minimum durations of stay for certain Markets or at certain Components as shown on the Exchange Point Schedule, there are no minimum length-of-stay requirements for Use Periods during the Priority 3 Period.

The only section that I could find that speaks to ressie limits is this footnote to the chart in Schedule "2"
6 Use Periods in The Ritz-Carlton Club, St. Thomas may be subject to a three night minimum stay, as determined by Exchange Company in its sole discretion.

 

[kds4]

Excerpts from the Exchange Docs, Schedule "2", sections A, B and C....as more fully documented at this link... https://www.my-vacationclub.com/common/vc/en-us/pdfs/enrollment_legal_docs/exchange_procedures.pdf

...Except as otherwise provided in these Exchange Procedures, and subject to applicable minimum duration of stays for certain Markets or at certain Components as shown on the Exchange Point Schedule, there are no minimum length-of-stay requirements for Use Periods reserved by Executive Members, Presidential Members and Chairman’s Club Members during the Priority 1 Period.

...Except as otherwise provided in these Exchange Procedures, and subject to applicable minimum duration of stays for certain Markets or at certain Components as shown on the Exchange Point Schedule, there are no minimum length-of-stay requirements for Use Periods reserved by Executive Members, Presidential Members and Chairman’s Club Members during the Priority 2 Period.

...Except as otherwise provided in these Exchange Procedures, and subject to applicable minimum durations of stay for certain Markets or at certain Components as shown on the Exchange Point Schedule, there are no minimum length-of-stay requirements for Use Periods during the Priority 3 Period.

The only section that I could find that speaks to ressie limits is this footnote to the chart in Schedule "2"
6 Use Periods in The Ritz-Carlton Club, St. Thomas may be subject to a three night minimum stay, as determined by Exchange Company in its sole discretion.

So, it appears that unless the resorts that have been reported to be doing this appear on the Exchange Point Schedule or are named elsewhere in the owner documents, there would be no basis to enable MVCI resorts to enact any minimum duration of stays ... and the only known possibility is the Ritz St. Thomas.

 

[Steve Fatula]

...Except as otherwise provided in these Exchange Procedures, and subject to applicable minimum duration of stays for certain Markets or at certain Components as shown on the Exchange Point Schedule, there are no minimum length-of-stay requirements for Use Periods reserved by Executive Members, Presidential Members and Chairman’s Club Members during the Priority 1 Period.

The only section that I could find that speaks to ressie limits is this footnote to the chart in Schedule "2"
6 Use Periods in The Ritz-Carlton Club, St. Thomas may be subject to a three night minimum stay, as determined by Exchange Company in its sole discretion.

The way I read this, and I admit to reading things differently than most people, is, this is speaking to me the customer having no minimum stay requirement. So, in other words, if the date is valid and shows up, and, I am of the required status, far enough in advance, etc., then, I could stay one day. I don't see where this speaks to a specific date being able to be listed as available or not? I do not see this as saying anything at all about what is available or not.