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At the risk of being petty...a little reciprocity would’ve been nice

CalGalTraveler

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Sorry to hear of your family member's poor manners. As they say, "You can choose your friends, but not your family."

If they were young, you might surmise that that they didnt know better, or didnt have the money. This does not sound like the case.

Reminds me of a similar incident with our vacation home. My brother and his family of 5 joined us for 5 days. They left the place a total mess and I had to spend several hours cleaning up after them. No thank yous either. They were not invited back.
 

bluehende

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I have a bit of the opposite problem. When we have a 2 bedroom we invite family that are struggling financially. They want to take us out and pay for everything. Since the extra bedroom would only go to waste our cost is zero. They always want to take us out and pay for everything. I know that while it would not hurt them too much they really need to conserve cash. So far we have been able to alternate checks with clandestine conversations with our server. I also love to cook so bringing food to cook works to minimize the stress. I hate to waste a second bedroom and are more than willing to put up with the stress and aggravation of the inevitable family dynamics. Does everyone have these in the family.

older siblings that act like your parents.

the sibling that won't suggest or make a decision and complains afterward

the know it all

And the one that drives me nuts.......always late and has no understanding that the world does not wait for them to get there.

I wonder what my family says about me?????
 

VacationForever

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When we offer up our 2nd bedroom at timeshare locations to friends, we never ever ask for reimbursement. When they asked about paying we simply told them that we enjoyed their company and hence we invited them along and if they would like, they could buy us a meal. Once in a while our guests would offer to pay for the rental car.

We have an upcoming trip and invited a couple to join us and they accepted. The husband is quirky, well they both are a little different... Over one of our recent outings he said almost sort of aggressively "Let's get it on the table, how much do we need to pay you for the upcoming trip, should we just write you a check?" We said "No charge at all... and friends don't keep score. We simply would love for them to join us." He was happy again.

The types that are hard to travel with:
- No understanding that the world does not revolve around them and their flexi schedule.
- The Go-go-go all the time folks where every day has to have something happen from 6am to 10pm.

Sometimes we just don't invite someone along when we just want to unwind without company of others. At other times, we invite folks who are just great to be around and have similar interests and values.
 

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The types that are hard to travel with:
- No understanding that the world does not revolve around them and their flexi schedule.
- The Go-go-go all the time folks where every day has to have something happen from 6am to 10pm.

Sometimes we just don't invite someone along when we just want to unwind without company of others. At other times, we invite folks who are just great to be around and have similar interests and values.
Yes, you can certainly get to over-know someone while travelling!!! I have been lucky, there have been no fouls so egregious as to put anyone on the "never again" list. I am sure that person will emerge eventually as I retire and friends also suddenly can go to the beach short notice also. For ladies' trips, we agree that there are no pictures taken while we are in swimsuits. I do not want pics of me posted anywhere without my permission, I don't do FB or any of those and prefer to not be pictured online. So far as I know, my wishes have been respected.

I like to put it out there that there is no schedule, do what you want. I plan to x, y, z, and anyone that wants to join in, please do, otherwise, enjoy your vacation Your Way. I don't plan to eat out, takes too much time and $, and I don't have a need for fine cuisine. I am good with making quick work of meals or snacking, and always happy with onsite grills with eating area adjacent. Blowing 2 hours on breakfast somewhere is just distressing in how much daylight it eats, but I am fine with travel companions eating all their meals out. I would join for a lunch or dinner before or after some group activity. For me, saving on food cost is a priority so I can spend more on stuff I wanna do and whatever it cost to get there/stay there. I don't want to be bullied into opening my wallet or spending time in restaurants since I have those at home, too.

Overscheduling.... nope, not me, never. I am R&R most always. exception is cruise, where you kinda need to maximize your time in ports. If I had my choice, I would not ever have to care what time it is. I don't want to get up early, but don't need to stay up late. If I have to set an alarm for something like whale watching, I can do that, but I'd rather hit the sunset cruise.

I recently returned from a trip to the Ozarks with boyfriend. This was his first timeshare experience, our second road trip together. We went to Cliffs at Longcreek (I am BG owner) and probably I spoiled him too much. The weather was great, scenery beautiful, so we stayed an extra day, but had to move to Big Cedar. It was nice for him to see the huge difference in resorts in one trip.

He is a great traveller, cooks and does dishes, and was happy to sit around and do not much more than enjoy the scenery. We both like mountains and lakes so did a lot of driving around to reach Middle Of Nowhere with good view. We thought we would hike but were honestly both so exhausted and in need of downtime that night time hot tubbing was the extent of our exciting tourist activities. I would also count the mini golf at Longcreek. Nice course that fits very well with the scenery, no gaudy colors or silly constructs. We were having a minor tiff when we began golfing but whatever that was became forgotten past by about hole 4.

It is always a gift when everyone on the trip is of the same general energy level/mindset, but I can roll with most anything. Had he wanted to do a lot of hiking, I would have obliged. We thought about renting a boat but decided we liked to see the water more than go to the effort of being on the water. True R&R, exactly what we both needed. Lazy feeding boozing viewing. Then home for the last run at tax stress. oh boy.

I am wanting to go to the beach this summer. any beach will do, I just want to be in it and let some warm waves do their bit on me. I haven't asked around yet but it's generally not that difficult to find someone willing to head south for big water.
 

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I recently returned from a trip to the Ozarks with boyfriend. This was his first timeshare experience, our second road trip together. We went to Cliffs at Longcreek (I am BG owner) and probably I spoiled him too much. The weather was great, scenery beautiful, so we stayed an extra day, but had to move to Big Cedar. It was nice for him to see the huge difference in resorts in one trip.

He is a great traveller, cooks and does dishes, and was happy to sit around and do not much more than enjoy the scenery. We both like mountains and lakes so did a lot of driving around to reach Middle Of Nowhere with good view. We thought we would hike but were honestly both so exhausted and in need of downtime that night time hot tubbing was the extent of our exciting tourist activities. I would also count the mini golf at Longcreek. Nice course that fits very well with the scenery, no gaudy colors or silly constructs. We were having a minor tiff when we began golfing but whatever that was became forgotten past by about hole 4.

It is always a gift when everyone on the trip is of the same general energy level/mindset, but I can roll with most anything. Had he wanted to do a lot of hiking, I would have obliged. We thought about renting a boat but decided we liked to see the water more than go to the effort of being on the water. True R&R, exactly what we both needed. Lazy feeding boozing viewing. Then home for the last run at tax stress. oh boy.
Great to read that you are enjoying life. Just curious, this is a different person from the one who would not go watch you perform/dance? This one sounds like a great person.
 

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Great to read that you are enjoying life. Just curious, this is a different person from the one who would not go watch you perform/dance? This one sounds like a great person.

Thanks, I am indeed trying to wring Smiles from life! Flower garden blooming, veggies growing, arts and crafts happening, spring cleaning making everything brighter and shinier!! trying to get surroundings under control before getting rotator cuff repair (yikes, I don't want it, I gotta have it....)

Current boyfriend did indeed stand me up when I bought him a ticket to an event this past December. I am still assessing his level of support for my endeavors and his level of thoughtfulness towards me. It is honestly not looking good but there is reason to hope.

persons with zero interest in my personal life can skip the rest of this post. apologies for ramblings to come next...

He did call before my last performance, but said stupid crap like "break a leg", just an awful thing to say to a dancer!! Glad I didn't hear it until I returned home after my performance. I later told him that he doesn't have to be involved and it seems that he is taking that escape route. Although he has had a couple lessons, I can't remember the last time he tried to dance with me so I know it is not going to be a couples activity for us. Seems like a foolish decision on his part, but that does seem to be his decision. He may come down this weekend, but either way, I'm going to Fri night dance party. I am living my life and he can try to be part of it or not.

Since we don't live near each other (2 hr drive), I don't plan to tell him about future performances. If he wants to know, he can ask. If I don't tell him then I don't care if he doesn't call and doesn't show because I was expecting nothing. Much easier to handle. I am trying to ward off disappointment and not create stupid reasons to dump him. It is up to me to keep myself in positive head space and not over-react to trivial stuff. I am eyeing long term potential, without which I would have dumped him last fall. He is perfect for me in so many ways but will he choose to solve the issues to be with me? Does he want personal growth?

I am still trying to figure out if he is insensitive meathead, dumb, not ready for healthy adult relationships. or simply inarticulate. It has been baffling and I'm not in great mental health myself so it's difficult to sort out and be objective, but I absolutely want to be fair to him. It took some time to chip through a facade and find that he seems to still be horribly wounded by the wife he divorced over 10 years ago (she cheated on him). Could be that he is just not going to be emotionally available to me, that he is nailed shut. I thought the trip would answer some questions for me, and it did, and so I didn't end it. Some puzzle pieces clicked into place and all he had to do was use his words. Show some empathy, gain some perspective, and actually speak from his heart. It seems that he can do this so I am hopeful.

There were productive discussions, but it is too soon to know if there are changes coming. Right now, he's not good for me, I am better off without him and content to be 2 hours away and hear from him every so often. He managed to man up enough to gain this last shot so I will give him time. If everything continues to be all about him, if all I get are stories of childhood pranks or college party stories, it's a very simple decision, since I want a fully formed adult man (with boyish side onboard, just not dominant feature). He is maybe coming down this weekend. Hard to say, it was a very short Easter call as his ROTC son called and he definitely needs to take son calls. What did exist of the call was a listing of his accomplishments since I saw him last Wednesday. He said something about hopefully you got your stuff done, and since it wasn't a question, I didn't say anything, and then his son beeped in and that was that, with "depending on what I get done, I will maybe come down this weekend, talk to you later". I did little to no talking, gave him the atta boy he seemed to be seeking for getting his chores done. He was on his way to his parents' house so it was not going to be a long call, and truncated even sooner. I try not to be irritated that I only get 5-15 minutes when he is stuck waiting for something else. Feels really "last resort" to me; insulting. Gee, nothing better to do right now, I'll call her to blow these few minutes.... How much do you really want to talk to me if as soon as the pizza is done or you are next in cashier line or you reach your destination the call is over? Kinda seeing where I am in the priority list, right? He is going through the motions.

Further, don't call me if all you want to do is list the chores you completed this week. It is to me just strange banter with no substance. I have no interest in reliving my chores. Newsflash, I get to repeatedly relive my chores because they are, ahem, repetitive chores. I guess he thinks this superficial stuff meets the communication quota but is to me just insanely boring and pointless and seriously frustrating. Get a journal if you need to keep score on doing dishes and vacuuming. I don't talk to any friends about such trivial business-of-living stuff so I am flat out puzzled. I don't think I'm wanting too much in seeking actual Relating, maybe discuss something happening in the world vs your kitchen? Maybe switch things up and talk about the weather? Did you watch the news at all this week or read any articles?

I want this to work, but only if the relationship includes both of us and my feelings matter. I could buy a mannequin if all I needed was a presence. This is not the first time that I have been very clear about there being problems. This time it seems that I broke through. But I am honestly half gone already, I have some shutdown valves flipping, he has to win me back. I will have given it all I can with the ball sitting on his side of the court, wrapped in some past unresolved issues he won't work through, and I'm not waiting forever for him to grow the hell up. How many decades does he need to confront these things that wounded him and heal himself? Does he want to haul this hurtful crap around the rest of his life? Why give her the power still? He's a great guy in many ways but that's not enough for me. I want someone that will be open and honest and sensitive to me. I'm not sure he can break past his old hangups and quit treating me like I'm Her. At least I figured out that I am being punished for her misdeeds, he straight up admitted it. But will he fix it?? Will he stop deciding that when I do nice things for him that I am setting traps? blew my mind, that one. terribly offensive to think that of me. I am generous to a fault and it wounds me to be accused of being manipulative when all I am being is nice.

Yeah, a nice guy in so many ways, we could have an awesome future together. But to me this is sinking into a casual relationship with an expiration date looming. I hope he steps up to the plate but it is not within my control. I would rather be solo than with the wrong guy, but it will suck royally if he could be the right guy but unwilling to fix his very old wounds. People make choices, he has to want to get closer to me, to want to know me better. I am prepared for this to reach its end. I have my issues, too, and I am working on them because I want to get better. If he doesn't want to get better, there is nothing I can do about that and I will at least be older and wiser when I meet the next guy that is maybe the one for me.

yikes, guess I needed to vent a bit. thanks/sorry!
 

Icc5

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We have the brother and sister n law that won't go near a timeshare after being scared off from high pressure salesman years ago which is fine, we just never invite them. I also have a sister that always is late and full of excuses so we just ignore her. We also have a brother n law and his wife. We had them stay a few times and he's fine but she is a pain. In Yellowstone she were pajamas a full day and complained about a bad back until her husband gave her money to have a massage on her back. Instead she had her toe nails done and stopped complaining (very milipative) but got her way. Scary to think she's a child phycologist. Won't ever invite them again.
We have friends that the wife always says how broke they are and her husband always wants to pay for the dinners. I think in their case she just doesn't understand finances. We've had them on several vacations with us. Another couple we see once a year is most compatible with us. We invite them and they buy some groceries and dinners and we do the same.
We usually don't give much thought to others paying because we look at the timeshares more like our home and I wouldn't expect anybody we invited to our house to have to pay for anything unless it was for beer or wine considering neither of us enjoy liquor.
Bart
 

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Current boyfriend did indeed stand me up when I bought him a ticket to an event this past December. I am still assessing his level of support for my endeavors and his level of thoughtfulness towards me. It is honestly not looking good but there is reason to hope.

I can't remember the last time he tried to dance with me so I know it is not going to be a couples activity for us. Seems like a foolish decision on his part, but that does seem to be his decision. He may come down this weekend, but either way, I'm going to Fri night dance party. I am living my life and he can try to be part of it or not.

Right now, he's not good for me, I am better off without him and content to be 2 hours away and hear from him every so often. He was on his way to his parents' house so it was not going to be a long call, and truncated even sooner. I try not to be irritated that I only get 5-15 minutes when he is stuck waiting for something else. Feels really "last resort" to me; insulting. Gee, nothing better to do right now, I'll call her to blow these few minutes.... How much do you really want to talk to me if as soon as the pizza is done or you are next in cashier line or you reach your destination the call is over? Kinda seeing where I am in the priority list, right? He is going through the motions.

He's a great guy in many ways but that's not enough for me. I want someone that will be open and honest and sensitive to me. I'm not sure he can break past his old hangups and quit treating me like I'm Her. At least I figured out that I am being punished for her misdeeds, he straight up admitted it. But will he fix it?? Will he stop deciding that when I do nice things for him that I am setting traps? blew my mind, that one. terribly offensive to think that of me. I am generous to a fault and it wounds me to be accused of being manipulative when all I am being is nice. .

yikes, guess I needed to vent a bit. thanks/sorry!

This is from a guy. Go back and reread your entire Post. Time to send this boy down the Road.
 

geist1223

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Current boyfriend did indeed stand me up when I bought him a ticket to an event this past December. I am still assessing his level of support for my endeavors and his level of thoughtfulness towards me. It is honestly not looking good but there is reason to hope.

I can't remember the last time he tried to dance with me so I know it is not going to be a couples activity for us. Seems like a foolish decision on his part, but that does seem to be his decision. He may come down this weekend, but either way, I'm going to Fri night dance party. I am living my life and he can try to be part of it or not.

Right now, he's not good for me, I am better off without him and content to be 2 hours away and hear from him every so often. He was on his way to his parents' house so it was not going to be a long call, and truncated even sooner. I try not to be irritated that I only get 5-15 minutes when he is stuck waiting for something else. Feels really "last resort" to me; insulting. Gee, nothing better to do right now, I'll call her to blow these few minutes.... How much do you really want to talk to me if as soon as the pizza is done or you are next in cashier line or you reach your destination the call is over? Kinda seeing where I am in the priority list, right? He is going through the motions.

He's a great guy in many ways but that's not enough for me. I want someone that will be open and honest and sensitive to me. I'm not sure he can break past his old hangups and quit treating me like I'm Her. At least I figured out that I am being punished for her misdeeds, he straight up admitted it. But will he fix it?? Will he stop deciding that when I do nice things for him that I am setting traps? blew my mind, that one. terribly offensive to think that of me. I am generous to a fault and it wounds me to be accused of being manipulative when all I am being is nice. .

yikes, guess I needed to vent a bit. thanks/sorry!

This is from a guy. Go back and reread your entire Post. Time to send this boy down the Road.
 

VacationForever

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Thanks, I am indeed trying to wring Smiles from life! Flower garden blooming, veggies growing, arts and crafts happening, spring cleaning making everything brighter and shinier!! trying to get surroundings under control before getting rotator cuff repair (yikes, I don't want it, I gotta have it....)

Current boyfriend did indeed stand me up when I bought him a ticket to an event this past December. I am still assessing his level of support for my endeavors and his level of thoughtfulness towards me. It is honestly not looking good but there is reason to hope.
.... snip to shorten...

Thank you for sharing. Vent all that you want with your TUG family here. It does sound like you on the right track as to deciding whether he is going to be the right person or not. All the best!
 

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Sharing a home with others definitely offers opportunities to learn so much more about compatibility.

I agree with the original poster that simply demonstrating some kind of manners is expected and frustrating when guest behavior is exactly the opposite.

Vacationing together is definitely a great relationship test.

I am forever thankful for a college spring break trip to my parents timeshare. There were 8 of us, and we used the kitchen for all of our meals. We had an understanding that we would share the grocery expenses. When we were tracking the receipts, one of the girls refused to split the potato salad 8 ways because she wouldn’t be eating it. It was literally less than $0.75. And she was the one that had a full ride scholarship for university. Anyways, we had been considering becoming roommates after graduation, but luckily over that week I learned there was no way that would work for me. Everytime I have potato salad I am reminded of dodging that bullet and say a little thank you. (It wasn’t just the potato salad, but that has become the symbol.)

~mb
 

klpca

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We have the brother and sister n law that won't go near a timeshare after being scared off from high pressure salesman years ago which is fine, we just never invite them. I also have a sister that always is late and full of excuses so we just ignore her. We also have a brother n law and his wife. We had them stay a few times and he's fine but she is a pain. In Yellowstone she were pajamas a full day and complained about a bad back until her husband gave her money to have a massage on her back. Instead she had her toe nails done and stopped complaining (very milipative) but got her way. Scary to think she's a child phycologist. Won't ever invite them again.
We have friends that the wife always says how broke they are and her husband always wants to pay for the dinners. I think in their case she just doesn't understand finances. We've had them on several vacations with us. Another couple we see once a year is most compatible with us. We invite them and they buy some groceries and dinners and we do the same.
We usually don't give much thought to others paying because we look at the timeshares more like our home and I wouldn't expect anybody we invited to our house to have to pay for anything unless it was for beer or wine considering neither of us enjoy liquor.
Bart
Yep, I hear you on the different personalities. We've vacationed with a few different couples and some family. I truly try to be inclusive and do things that I might not want to otherwise, because it's the right thing to do. Most were fine but I'm not in any hurry to repeat with a few of them.

My personal do-not-travel-together list is 1. Whiners. Nope, life is too short to spend vacation trying to placate them. 2. Late sleepers. We are early risers and it's not relaxing being up early, but needing to be quiet in order to not wake the others. Then half of the day is gone before we really get going. It's just a mismatch in vacationing style, but I could see it working on a cruise where you don't have to tiptoe for three hours while they sleep. 3. Smokers. We went with friends who needed to take a lot of cigarette breaks. About 1 every hour. It just got frustrating after awhile because we had to scope out smoking areas everywhere we went. I feel bad that they are so addicted. They now vape and did so on our balcony at NCV even though I told them that it was prohibited - "because it doesn't bother anyone". Ugh. I was so stressed that someone would turn us in, and was pretty relieved when that week came to an end. Now those are cruise friends only. :) 4. Those who don't like physical activity on vacation - usually snorkeling or hiking. We went to a convention type activity in Hawaii with my boss and his wife. When we were planning activities, I asked him what she would like to do. He said "she will do anything as long as it's not in the water, or out in the sun". I laughed thinking that he was kidding, but nope she didn't want to do sun or water. She sat in her room while the three of us snorkeled. Come to think of it she did do a sunset cruise, but otherwise she watched a lot of netflix. It was kind of uncomfortable to keep leaving her by herself.

Otherwise I am easygoing, lololol.
 

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This is from a guy. Go back and reread your entire Post. Time to send this boy down the Road.
Wowza, thank you.

A few reasons that I haven't given him the ole heave ho. I know him from kidhood, we lived in same neighborhood, went to same schools ( he is 2 years ahead of me). His is what we called A Good Family, A Nice Family. Smart, hardworking and ethical. We always liked each other, but our sports carpool ended when I was about 12 and he went on to do other sports and grew up to date people his own age and we mostly didn't cross paths again.

When divorce finally occurred after what sounds like multiple affairs on her part, he had custody of the kids, kept them in their home. He raised them as a single father, all the morning routines and school drop offs or day care pickups, doctor appointments, homework, all of that, plus did a lot of fun kid things with them. His sons are great, hardworking and smart, polite, can cook, help around the house and yard, etc. The mother has always been around, I guess weekend mom, contributes financially, etc. I think he built his emotional wall to just do the deal and raise those boys and accept that he was forever tied to her and would have to deal with her for kid hand offs or whatever joint decisions to be made on their behalf. Now that they are fine young men, needing little to nothing from him, or her, he can step off the treadmill, gain his breath, and become a full human being again. He downsized his career from engineering to teaching so is a couple years in to repositioning his life with retirement in mind.

There have been times in my life where I have had to shut things off in order to march forward without pesky wounds and deeply painful feelings, so I could understand hiding in a fortress to not have to feel wounded again. For me, not such big stuff as having to raise children myself while dealing with someone I detest, that is some long hiding. I can give the guy a break on being a bit damaged (I have damage, most everyone does). For me the key is what is he going to do about it. I don't want to give up on him unless he chooses to keep his walls up. It is a choice, right?

I finally broke through a wall, all of this was earlier this month overlooking Table Rock Lake. I have to wait a bit to see if the wall crumbles, it hasn't been long enough to know. I struck something when I asked if he were hollow. I gave him plenty to think about. I don't think he knew he was viewing me as Her, Part 2. He seemed horrified by the revelation and it blew me away as well. He hadn't understood that he was hurting me but my specific examples showed him. I would go to counselling with him if he asked me to as I think the problems are solvable. He does not want to be an emotional abuser, he simply had not realized what he was doing, he only kept feeling his own old pain and trying to protect himself in case I also bore daggers under my cloak. I listed specific things that fit the description. He went pale as the shoe began to fit and then got tighter. He can get counselling himself or he can do his own deep introspection and decide to change. Or he can live in his stone fortress alone, forevermore feeling fresh stabbing through the heart by her, and I will indeed move on.

He is a teacher about to have a free summer to work on anything he wants to work on, including himself. We haven't even been together a year, I can wait a few more months. He is worth it to me. This is a large problem, but the only big one, and from old stuff he hasn't resolved inside himself. There can be massive upside to polishing this tarnished rock because he was always a gem. None in his family were mean boys, never. We have only just now named the problem and its likely cause. Solving it is not instant.

If we didn't go way back, if I didn't know the quality of character all in his family have, I would have jetted at first signs of e-abuse. It took me too long to see it clearly, I was confused by the disconnects with all that I know of him, and his efforts to shine me on, like he must have done with his vain selfish wife. I didn't understand at first why we didn't continue to get closer but eventually I spotted the arm blocking my access to him. If the cycle continues, it is definitely up to me to say No More and I have been prepared to do that.

But with me, there is no on again/off again relationship. We are on until we are off and there is not another on. When I am done, I am completely done. I can't walk away until I am completely done. It has to run its course.
 

mav

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Geist is giving you EXCELLENT advice. You seem like a very nice person and deserve MUCH better!
 

Icc5

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Kipca, years ago my wife's long time friend and her husband stayed with us at a timeshare we own and before they came my wife mentioned about their habits. He smokes and drinks beer ( he has passed away from liver problems about 10 years ago now) and she craves 4 cokes a day. We went on a long drive and asked him not to smoke in the car. When we got back to the unit he rushed out to the balcony and instantly smoked about 6 cigs, one after another then downed 4 beers. His wife sat down and drank 4 cans of Coke, one after another. This was their daily routine for the entire week.
At least he honored our request of not smoking in the car. It also sort of worked as entertainment for us.
Bart
 

OldGuy

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Kipca, years ago my wife's long time friend and her husband stayed with us at a timeshare we own and before they came my wife mentioned about their habits. He smokes and drinks beer ( he has passed away from liver problems about 10 years ago now) and she craves 4 cokes a day. We went on a long drive and asked him not to smoke in the car. When we got back to the unit he rushed out to the balcony and instantly smoked about 6 cigs, one after another then downed 4 beers. His wife sat down and drank 4 cans of Coke, one after another. This was their daily routine for the entire week.
At least he honored our request of not smoking in the car. It also sort of worked as entertainment for us.
Bart

The house next door is a vacation rental, and there was a nice couple, with a nice dog, all from Minnesota, there this Winter. We did a lot of things together. They had a series of guests from "home", some fun and some not so fun.

One couple (relations to them) were chain-smokers. We took them for a pontoon ride (as we did all of their guests, and them) on a very windy day. It was fun watching them try to light up in that wind.

The neighbors apologized profusely, and said that won't happen next Winter.

It occurs to me that I am now talking about doing the things we were looking forward to doing 20 years ago. Wow! :D
 

clifffaith

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When we travel with people, it seems like there is a certain amount of himming and hawing as no one wants to make a decision about what to do and where to eat for fear of seeming pushy. I can stand about ten minutes of that, then I’m sorry but I’m stepping up to make the decision! Then Cliff apologizes for me, they him and haw some more, then the fallback position becomes because my suggestion anyway!

We are now in Scottsdale for a day before heading back to LA tomorrow. The “right kind” of friends want to meet us for dinner, and because Cliff bought lunch for them and their daughter and sister when they got off a cruise ship in San Pedro at Christmas, I know they will want to treat us tonight. They live in Chandler and discussion had gone on for ten days between Cliff and Terry as to when we will meet them and where we will eat. We don’t know the area, Terry himmed and hawed about where. Fine, I have stepped up to decree the Cheesecake Factory in Phoenix, about midway between Chandler and Scottsdale. DONE. (Personally I’d just as soon stay in and eat pizza in front of the TV—Wednesday night throws off lots of make-up TV, so I’ll be at least 4 hrs behind on my shows).
 

WinniWoman

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Wowza, thank you.

A few reasons that I haven't given him the ole heave ho. I know him from kidhood, we lived in same neighborhood, went to same schools ( he is 2 years ahead of me). His is what we called A Good Family, A Nice Family. Smart, hardworking and ethical. We always liked each other, but our sports carpool ended when I was about 12 and he went on to do other sports and grew up to date people his own age and we mostly didn't cross paths again.

When divorce finally occurred after what sounds like multiple affairs on her part, he had custody of the kids, kept them in their home. He raised them as a single father, all the morning routines and school drop offs or day care pickups, doctor appointments, homework, all of that, plus did a lot of fun kid things with them. His sons are great, hardworking and smart, polite, can cook, help around the house and yard, etc. The mother has always been around, I guess weekend mom, contributes financially, etc. I think he built his emotional wall to just do the deal and raise those boys and accept that he was forever tied to her and would have to deal with her for kid hand offs or whatever joint decisions to be made on their behalf. Now that they are fine young men, needing little to nothing from him, or her, he can step off the treadmill, gain his breath, and become a full human being again. He downsized his career from engineering to teaching so is a couple years in to repositioning his life with retirement in mind.

There have been times in my life where I have had to shut things off in order to march forward without pesky wounds and deeply painful feelings, so I could understand hiding in a fortress to not have to feel wounded again. For me, not such big stuff as having to raise children myself while dealing with someone I detest, that is some long hiding. I can give the guy a break on being a bit damaged (I have damage, most everyone does). For me the key is what is he going to do about it. I don't want to give up on him unless he chooses to keep his walls up. It is a choice, right?

I finally broke through a wall, all of this was earlier this month overlooking Table Rock Lake. I have to wait a bit to see if the wall crumbles, it hasn't been long enough to know. I struck something when I asked if he were hollow. I gave him plenty to think about. I don't think he knew he was viewing me as Her, Part 2. He seemed horrified by the revelation and it blew me away as well. He hadn't understood that he was hurting me but my specific examples showed him. I would go to counselling with him if he asked me to as I think the problems are solvable. He does not want to be an emotional abuser, he simply had not realized what he was doing, he only kept feeling his own old pain and trying to protect himself in case I also bore daggers under my cloak. I listed specific things that fit the description. He went pale as the shoe began to fit and then got tighter. He can get counselling himself or he can do his own deep introspection and decide to change. Or he can live in his stone fortress alone, forevermore feeling fresh stabbing through the heart by her, and I will indeed move on.

He is a teacher about to have a free summer to work on anything he wants to work on, including himself. We haven't even been together a year, I can wait a few more months. He is worth it to me. This is a large problem, but the only big one, and from old stuff he hasn't resolved inside himself. There can be massive upside to polishing this tarnished rock because he was always a gem. None in his family were mean boys, never. We have only just now named the problem and its likely cause. Solving it is not instant.

If we didn't go way back, if I didn't know the quality of character all in his family have, I would have jetted at first signs of e-abuse. It took me too long to see it clearly, I was confused by the disconnects with all that I know of him, and his efforts to shine me on, like he must have done with his vain selfish wife. I didn't understand at first why we didn't continue to get closer but eventually I spotted the arm blocking my access to him. If the cycle continues, it is definitely up to me to say No More and I have been prepared to do that.

But with me, there is no on again/off again relationship. We are on until we are off and there is not another on. When I am done, I am completely done. I can't walk away until I am completely done. It has to run its course.


Wow. Well, I wish I had some words of wisdom for you on this. But being I have been with my husband since I was age 16, I have absolutely no experience in this department.

We all certainly have issues that is for sure. I have always gone by Ann Landers' old advice: Ask yourself: "Are you better off WITH him or WITHOUT him." Being I am married almost 42 years it has worked for me.
 
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