Brokers and ROFR

[ski_sierra]

I have been in touch with some brokers about a resale HGVC and Marriott week. A couple of these brokers are names recommended here.

I don't want to pay a high price and when I offer a low price, the brokers say it will not pass ROFR. Do these brokers make a high % of the purchase price? Is that why they don't want me to offer a low price? I don't care if Marriott or HGVC purchases those weeks.

I'm guessing these brokers are acting in their own self interest at the expense of their clients (seller). I understand I'm their customer; not their client. I don't understand why they care about if I will lose the week to ROFR.

Am I approaching this the wrong way?

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I have been in touch with some brokers about a resale HGVC and Marriott week. A couple of these brokers are names recommended here.

I don't want to pay a high price and when I offer a low price, the brokers say it will not pass ROFR. Do these brokers make a high % of the purchase price? Is that why they don't want me to offer a low price? I don't care if Marriott or HGVC purchases those weeks.

I'm guessing these brokers are acting in their own self interest at the expense of their clients (seller). I understand I'm their customer; not their client. I don't understand why they care about if I will lose the week to ROFR.

Am I approaching this the wrong way?

I had the same issue when I was buying my Hyatt and my Vanderbilt Beach & Harbour Club. I would make an offer and they would tell me it would not pass ROFR or that the owner would not accept such a low offer and that it would be a waste of their time to submit my offer... I blew through about 4 realtors until I found one that would work with me and my budget and I got my Hyatt for the $4K and VBHC for the $2K I wanted to pay for my diamond week at Hyatt and a December week in FL.

I agree, I think they want to make a certain $ amount from the sale and if you offer a low amount it becomes not worth it to them... Just keep searching and you will find a broker that will work with you...

 

[hurnik]

There's some HGVC brokers that I'm not impressed with that seem to tend towards the high end. Now, it could very well be that they have a good "pulse" on the market of what HGVC will do. (I don't have any proof). All I know is that I had 3 brokers and I wanted a 7k unit. 2 brokers kept pushing me towards Seaworld with MF around $1500-1700 and a price of $13-15k (this was years ago) to pass ROFR. A third broker said that was too much and I wanted lower MF so she shopped around and we got a 7k Gold in Vegas Blvd for 11k I think. MF are around $1100, if memory is correct. Not as good as a Platinum week, but back then the plats in Vegas were going for $15-17k. Resale. (yes, now the prices are a lot lower)

IMO, a good broker will tell you their opinion on the ROFR but let you make the offer anyway. If you can be patient, I say low ball them. Hilton usually exhausts their ROFR budget towards the end of the year.

 

[beachgirl79]

I think it would be very helpful if the broker would tell you an honest opinion of what would pass rofr. I feel like it's a shot on the dark and I keep getting my hopes up to be let down. It may be worth the money to get solid information rather than waste your time on contracts that they just scoop up.

 

[ski_sierra]

I think it would be very helpful if the broker would tell you an honest opinion of what would pass rofr. I feel like it's a shot on the dark and I keep getting my hopes up to be let down. It may be worth the money to get solid information rather than waste your time on contracts that they just scoop up.

I agree with getting the right info. But many of them want me to offer prices much higher (few thousand dollars) more than what I see on rofr.net.

Some of these agents talk like timeshare sales people rather than a real estate broker. This is a great deal, you should buy it, it won't last long, I have a few people waiting in line... blah blah blah.

 

[brianfox]

Keep in mind that if ROFR occurs, the original closing service doesn't close the deal. Marriott will step in and use their closing service, as there will be a brand new sales contract between seller and Marriott.
I believe there are very old threads here talking specifically about what happens with brokers in such instances, and if I recall the broker is removed from the deal as well.
As such the original broker/closing service may get a token amount from Marriott - far less than the original deal promised.

As a buyer, ROFR shouldn't really be a consideration. I've purchased Marriott's that I was told would never pass ROFR. There are no etched in stone thresholds for ROFR; they can change at any time. Personally, I envision a budget at Marriott set aside specifically for ROFR, and when that's exhausted, ROFR simply doesn't happen until the next budget period.

 

[beachgirl79]

Keep in mind that if ROFR occurs, the original closing service doesn't close the deal. Marriott will step in and use their closing service, as there will be a brand new sales contract between seller and Marriott.
I believe there are very old threads here talking specifically about what happens with brokers in such instances, and if I recall the broker is removed from the deal as well.
As such the original broker/closing service may get a token amount from Marriott - far less than the original deal promised.

As a buyer, ROFR shouldn't really be a consideration. I've purchased Marriott's that I was told would never pass ROFR. There are no etched in stone thresholds for ROFR; they can change at any time. Personally, I envision a budget at Marriott set aside specifically for ROFR, and when that's exhausted, ROFR simply doesn't happen until the next budget period.

I had two back to back ckntracts within a week get rofr by marriot.. it's annoying and I feel a total waste of time.

 

[brianfox]

I had two back to back ckntracts within a week get rofr by marriot.. it's annoying and I feel a total waste of time.

That's frustrating. rofr.net is my go-to resource to get a feel for ROFR thresholds. Are yours listed on there? Anyone can add to the database

 

[Sugarcubesea]

That's frustrating. rofr.net is my go-to resource to get a feel for ROFR thresholds. Are yours listed on there? Anyone can add to the database

I wish ROFR.net had Hyatt and Independents as I would gladly share my sales info...

 

[ski_sierra]

Keep in mind that if ROFR occurs, the original closing service doesn't close the deal. Marriott will step in and use their closing service, as there will be a brand new sales contract between seller and Marriott.
I believe there are very old threads here talking specifically about what happens with brokers in such instances, and if I recall the broker is removed from the deal as well.
As such the original broker/closing service may get a token amount from Marriott - far less than the original deal promised.

As a buyer, ROFR shouldn't really be a consideration. I've purchased Marriott's that I was told would never pass ROFR. There are no etched in stone thresholds for ROFR; they can change at any time. Personally, I envision a budget at Marriott set aside specifically for ROFR, and when that's exhausted, ROFR simply doesn't happen until the next budget period.

the broker's behavior makes more sense now.

 

[AJCts411]

A unit that is ROFR...the contracted offer/amount is what is matched/paid, from those proceeds the broker is paid. No dollar difference to the brokers.

 

[Braindead]

Brokers don’t like ROFR because it makes them look bad if the resort exercises ROFR. It makes the owner feel like the broker wasn’t worth paying.
They could of sent in a sales contract themselves using a friend as the buyer to dispose of the ownership. If the resort doesn’t exercise ROFR the friend doesn’t have to close on the ownership as they just changed their mind and backed out.

 

[VacationForever]

Don't forget the brokers know what is the price that the seller is willing to accept. Brokers usually get a fixed amount from the seller. If the offer is too low, the brokers already know how much the sellers have set their minimums and as such may use the "won't pass ROFR" reason.

 

[brianfox]

I wish ROFR.net had Hyatt and Independents as I would gladly share my sales info...

The person who runs rofr.net is @dioxide45.

 

[ontilt]

I would stick to your offers based on what you think the value is and what you're willing to pay. I've had some push back on offers with a broker and the offer went through and passed ROFR at about 50% the listing price. I've put in others and have been told that the seller stayed firm and the broker has emailed me their response.

I wouldn't let the broker steer what you're willing to bid and quite frankly, their role is to communicate the offers to the seller. They may have some insight on ROFR, but I think they're probably less motivated by a percentage and more motivated with not taking inventory off market that won't pass ROFR. That said, much like a home that you might own, you would steer clear of lowball offers and probably be less inclined to counter.

Good luck -- see you on the slopes

 

[ski_sierra]

I would stick to your offers based on what you think the value is and what you're willing to pay. I've had some push back on offers with a broker and the offer went through and passed ROFR at about 50% the listing price. I've put in others and have been told that the seller stayed firm and the broker has emailed me their response.

I wouldn't let the broker steer what you're willing to bid and quite frankly, their role is to communicate the offers to the seller. They may have some insight on ROFR, but I think they're probably less motivated by a percentage and more motivated with not taking inventory off market that won't pass ROFR. That said, much like a home that you might own, you would steer clear of lowball offers and probably be less inclined to counter.

Good luck -- see you on the slopes

yes.. some of these listings are still on the market for a reason. The seller can hold their price firm and keep waiting. Or finish the deal today. These are not houses in bay area with 20 people lined up.

I think one key thing to note is that in buyer's market, it makes sense for sellers to list higher prices if they want to get the best offer. In that case, buyer's should always send a low ball offer and see if that gets accepted. If seller counters, it's a good sign they are willing to come down.

In a seller's market, if seller wants the best price it makes sense set up an auction with a low price so that a bidding war starts. Buyer needs to decide that that deal with worth to them and not get carried away in auction fever.

 

[VacationForever]

You won't know if the buyer will accept a fair offer until you try. I use the word fair because to the seller it may be lowball but when I look at the ROFR data, my offers were right in line with completed sales.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

You won't know if the buyer will accept a fair offer until you try. I use the word fair because to the seller it may be lowball but when I look at the ROFR data, my offers were right in line with completed sales.

I agree 100%, the offers I made were fair market value based on what others sold for. The realtor that I worked with to buy my Naples TS from told me that she had multiple folks make offers on the first TS I made an offer on. The owner had bought from the developer and was determined to get 3 times the amount that all the others like his had sold for. My realtor told me it’s been for sale for over 3 years. I was able to buy the same week he had but a higher floor for $4K less then what he wanted for his.

It’s sad that some people are convinced that their TS is somehow more valuable then the 10 others just liked theirs that are priced accurately.

 

[brianfox]

If a person wants to sell their timeshare, they probably don't use a single selling avenue (i.e. a broker).
Wouldn't surprise me if the HGVC and Marriott listings the OP was looking at aren't also listed on many other sites (maybe even at different prices).
So if the broker gives ANY resistance claiming it won't pass ROFR, then go elsewhere.
Even if you see a high priced ad on Redweek or TUG or elsewhere, make an offer. Worst that happens is they say no.
And then every 60 days, contact them again and say that you notice that the unit hasn't sold, and your offer still stands.
Just keep a record of which ads on which you have made offers and when.

 

[ski_sierra]

So if the broker gives ANY resistance claiming it won't pass ROFR, then go elsewhere.

that's what I ended up doing.

I'm willing to offer in the ball park of what the ROFR DB shows. But 20 to 50% above the ROFR DB is what these brokers want. I just tell them if a week is available at my price in future let me know. In the large scheme of things, purchase price is only 1/3rd to 1/2 of the total cost of ownership (HGVC). It's much lower for Marriott trader weeks.

I found a broker who took an offer close to the ROFR DB for a Marriott week. Let's see how it goes.

 

[ski_sierra]

It’s sad that some people are convinced that their TS is somehow more valuable then the 10 others just liked theirs that are priced accurately.

They are the same people who buy from developers, so clearly they don't have the inclination to do their research.

 

[brianfox]

I found a broker who took an offer close to the ROFR DB for a Marriott week.

Seems to me a broker worth their salt should feel an obligation to present every offer to a seller, regardless of how it would affect his commission. Heading off an offer by claiming it wouldn't pass ROFR or simply saying the seller says no (without passing along the offer) is a complete disservice.

Hey, good luck with the purchase; I hope it passes. Let us know how it goes.

 

[ski_sierra]

Seems to me a broker worth their salt should feel an obligation to present every offer to a seller, regardless of how it would affect his commission. Heading off an offer by claiming it wouldn't pass ROFR or simply saying the seller says no (without passing along the offer) is a complete disservice.

This is precisely what I was trying to say. These brokers are required to act in the best interest of their client (seller) but they don't.

A few hours of research and these sellers of platinum (red) weeks could have sold their week themselves.

People at resorts with high MF and low season, they are SOL. I'm not sure how hiring a broker would help them.

 

[VacationForever]

We are eyeing on a couple of timeshare but have yet to make an offer because the asking price is double of what we are willing to pay. I feel that if I make the offer, the broker and seller will feel that I am trying to lowball them.

 

[ski_sierra]

We are eyeing on a couple of timeshare but have yet to make an offer because the asking price is double of what we are willing to pay. I feel that if I make the offer, the broker and seller will feel that I am trying to lowball them.

I see how having an asking price much higher than market rate is a risk for seller. They might not get any offers. But I'm assuming there is a market price and they know about it which is not always true.