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Consolidated Wyndham Points Spreadsheet

bobbyoc23

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Have you seen the 500-line Wyndham spreadsheet I built from scratch? I know all about each resort having it's own points!

What I'm looking for is a price to hypothetically "rent" 1M Wyndham points. How much value I will get out of those points might impact I personally am willing to pay, but it won't necessarily directly impact how much they will sell for (in the style of renting I am talking about).

-Scott

I have no direct experience renting points to turn a profit, so maybe I shouldn’t be answering this, but from what I gather the recent changes implemented by Wyndham has affected the profitability of renting points... and that was for VIP owners. Can resale, non-VIP owners actually turn a profit renting Wyndham points? Maybe, but I think someone else mentioned this in a previous post (Jan maybe?) - is it worth the hours spent coordinating the effort? Without VIP benefits, I seriously doubt it
 

ronparise

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OK, let's try another approach. I want to buy/rent 1M points worth of HICV reservations and 1M points worth Wyndham reservations (one time, not ownership). Excluding guest fees for Wyndham VIP and guest fees and booking fees for a HICV Elite, what's a fair price to pay for each? I can tell you that HICV points can be rented by Elite owners in quantity at $5/1, so typically HICV Elite owners are going to be in the $7-$9/1K range. Should I expect to pay more or less for the Wyndham points? The problem here is that there's not a lot of data in this area, so it's not clear to me that this is any less subjective than comparing resorts between systems.

-Scott


again, I dont get it

There are what? 100 wyndham resorts and 52 weeks a year.. there are then 5200 possible weeks to rent...so 5200 "fair prices"

I believe that a fair price (fair to the owner) is maintenance fees plus a little and maintenance fees are not part of your spread sheet
 

Jan M.

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Wyndham Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach
Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
Woodstone and Summit at Massanutten - Both in RCI weeks used as Wyndham PICs
Have you seen the 500-line Wyndham spreadsheet I built from scratch? I know all about each resort having it's own points!

What I'm looking for is a price to hypothetically "rent" 1M Wyndham points. How much value I will get out of those points might impact I personally am willing to pay, but it won't necessarily directly impact how much they will sell for (in the style of renting I am talking about).

-Scott

Sorry, I should have made it clear that a lot of what I've posted is more to help other people. I think you have experience already being a timeshare owner that many people don't have even some who are owners too. A lot of people read threads like yours hoping to learn. For many people a spreadsheet might as well be written in Chinese for all they get out of it. Like you I'm a numbers person. Trying to get people who aren't to understand numbers is often a pretty hopeless task no matter how good a job you do laying it all out for them.

BTW your Wyndham spread sheet is excellent and very helpful. I love playing with numbers. I like to play around with figuring out how many weeks we could stay with our points, where we could stay and what time of year we could stay at the cheapest point resorts that wouldn't have horrible off season weather. Now that my husband finally retired at age 67.5 we can do things like go for 2-4 months at a time. There are tuggers who have or are living out of the timeshares full time. That is another what if we wanted to do that number game.
 
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skotrla

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again, I dont get it

There are what? 100 wyndham resorts and 52 weeks a year.. there are then 5200 possible weeks to rent...so 5200 "fair prices"

I believe that a fair price (fair to the owner) is maintenance fees plus a little and maintenance fees are not part of your spread sheet

I'm not asking about 5200 possible weeks (I think it's actually much higher since there are 5-10 different kinds of units at each resort and 5-10 partial stays at each resort, which gets you to 250K possible stays) - I'm just asking about raw points for reservations that have not been booked yet.

-Scott
 

skotrla

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Sorry, I should have made it clear that a lot of what I've posted is more to help other people. I think you have experience already being a timeshare owner that many people don't have even some who are owners too. A lot of people read threads like yours hoping to learn. For many people a spreadsheet might as well be written in Chinese for all they get out of it. Like you I'm a numbers person. Trying to get people who aren't to understand numbers is often a pretty hopeless task no matter how good a job you do laying it all out for them.

BTW your Wyndham spread sheet is excellent and very helpful. I love playing with numbers. I like to play around with figuring out how many weeks we could stay with our points, where we could stay and what time of year we could stay at the cheapest point resorts that wouldn't have horrible off season weather. Now that my husband finally retired at age 67.5 we can do things like go for 2-4 months at a time. There are tuggers who have or are living out of the timeshares full time. That is another what if we wanted to do that number game.

Glad you find it useful!

-Scott
 

Jan M.

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Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
Woodstone and Summit at Massanutten - Both in RCI weeks used as Wyndham PICs
Glad you find it useful!

I really appreciate all the work you put into this. I think you did an excellent job a laying it out in a way that is easy to understand. I downloaded it because I know I will find it very useful to have for quick reference. If OP are reading this thread I highly recommend they save it too.
 

schoolmarm

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It's a good chart if you want to know how many points are needed to book a unit, but it doesn't include all the resorts, but it is a valuable chart if you are looking to use up a certain number of points.

Now for VALUE, you need to know the MFs for the resort you own OR CWA. These can range from $2.90 ish to the low $3 ish per 1000 points to $9-12 per 1000 points. CWA is about $5.75ish.

The value lays in the MFs, not in the number of points needed to book a resort. My Bali Hai is in the low-mid $3/1000 points. For a 200,000 point reservation, I'm "spending" about $650-$700 and this is the value. If someone owns CWA, they are spending about $1150, and this is the value. If you own a $11/1000 (maybe Fairfield Glade?) you would be spending $2200 for this same reservation and that is the value. These three owners are all booking the same unit from a random place on your spreadsheet. Their values range from $650-$2200. This is one reason why low MF resorts are "more valuable" and can sometimes cost a bit more than other resorts when buying resale.

The other wrench in the "value" is that VIP owners CAN get an upgrade (if the system is working) to a bigger unit, thus stretching their value. The last wrench is that VIP owners can book units at a 25%-50% discount during the express period (90 days out), thus really stretching their value. Last year before the new rules, VIP owners would often get BOTH of these discounts, putting some value on VIP. Now these discounts and upgrades are not always happening.
 

Nickiez187

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Wow! I have been looking for information like this everywhere! THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to do this. I'm new to all of this. Thinking about purchasing a resale Wyndham timeshare and this is VERY helpful. Thank you again!!

Nicole
 

skotrla

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It's a good chart if you want to know how many points are needed to book a unit, but it doesn't include all the resorts, but it is a valuable chart if you are looking to use up a certain number of points.

Now for VALUE, you need to know the MFs for the resort you own OR CWA. These can range from $2.90 ish to the low $3 ish per 1000 points to $9-12 per 1000 points. CWA is about $5.75ish.

The value lays in the MFs, not in the number of points needed to book a resort. My Bali Hai is in the low-mid $3/1000 points. For a 200,000 point reservation, I'm "spending" about $650-$700 and this is the value. If someone owns CWA, they are spending about $1150, and this is the value. If you own a $11/1000 (maybe Fairfield Glade?) you would be spending $2200 for this same reservation and that is the value. These three owners are all booking the same unit from a random place on your spreadsheet. Their values range from $650-$2200. This is one reason why low MF resorts are "more valuable" and can sometimes cost a bit more than other resorts when buying resale.

The other wrench in the "value" is that VIP owners CAN get an upgrade (if the system is working) to a bigger unit, thus stretching their value. The last wrench is that VIP owners can book units at a 25%-50% discount during the express period (90 days out), thus really stretching their value. Last year before the new rules, VIP owners would often get BOTH of these discounts, putting some value on VIP. Now these discounts and upgrades are not always happening.

Yes, maintenance is key in all systems. Points gives you relative value - no matter what your personal maintenance costs are, a 200K unit costs twice as much to book at a 100K unit.

Let me know which resorts I am missing and I will add them - this covers p. 10-211 of the guide. I did not include Club Pass or Affiliate Resorts since those resorts are more like exchanges with no VIP benefits. I do see that I missed St. Thomas at the end, so I will add that.

-Scott
 
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skotrla

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Wow! I have been looking for information like this everywhere! THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to do this. I'm new to all of this. Thinking about purchasing a resale Wyndham timeshare and this is VERY helpful. Thank you again!!

Nicole
Glad to help - given all of the wonderful tools out there, I was surprised as well.

-Scott
 

schoolmarm

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Did you put Edisto in with a different name? National Harbor and Alexandria are in a slot for "DC" and not in the states where they exist<--this actually makes sense, but it is easy to miss them. Thanks for adding St. Thomas.

Change Avenue Plaza to LA (not IL).
Where is Austin? It's new! Galveston and Boston and that fancy pants hotel in the Carolinas and Pittsburgh are affiliates and bookable with timeshare points.

The affiliate resorts (all of Mexico and Australia/New Zealand etc.) are not exchanges, but are limited in number of units available. The same is true of Chicago (I think only 42 units are timeshare). Brazil and Margaritaville resorts are also new.

Club Pass IS an exchange to Worldmark Resorts, HOWEVER, many of the Worldmark resorts are also affiliates--with as few as 2 units available. So technically, they are also bookable using regular Wyndham points. You have some of them, like Angel, in your spreadsheet.

The point value doesn't necessarily mean that the unit is Bigger/Nicer/more valuable. It just means that it is in a newer resort. Alexandria is a prime location and is very few points in January. And for some strange reason, Bonnet Creek is not PRIME season during most Thanksgiving weeks--giving that week a bigger bang for the buck. Also what Wyndham owners know or need to know is that a day Sunday-Thursday is typically 1/2 the number of points as a Friday or Saturday. Those who want to stretch points will save if they have more "midweek" days than Fridays or Saturdays. I love the flexibility of NOT having to take a full week, as I have a church job and never can stay a Saturday night.
 

WyndhamBarter

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...Boston...

FWIW - I've checked Wyndham Boston Beacon Hill a few times since it came online. It always seems to have pretty limited availability, but more importantly:

A five-night stay in a Hotel Room 11/11-11/16 is currently available for 591,000 points. For most of us that's *over* $600/night in MF payments. For a Hotel Room. Admittedly, it's probably a great location - but NYC Midtown 45 is currently showing the same 5 nights in a 1 BR Presidential for 330,000 points!!

Oh, and the Boston hotel website shows hotel rooms available for those five nights for about $300/night.

It seems clear to me that selling these rooms for WVO points is some MBA's implementation of the "never give a sucker an even break" philosophy.
 

ronparise

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So do i have this right?

you have taken all the info in the various points charts and put it in one chart. good job and it helps with a question Ive tried to answer in the past

I used to enjoy messing with the numbers to figure out whether a person could live in a wyndham timeshare full time on a social security income, your chart would help with that question....I see several studios at about 3 million points per year.. whats missing is the maintenance fees... so lets assume $5/1000 So thats $15000/yr ($1250/mo) so the answer is yes, a couple probably could, but which resorts do I buy to get that low mf.?.. The chart is no help here and Id like to live somewhere with good public transportation... again the chart dosent help me

To Jans question.. where are the cheaper resorts that have decent weather in their off season.... I dont see weather data here either .. I dont see how this answers her question without it

As I see it, this chart takes data already presented in the directory and puts it on one page..The only thing new is the total points for the year

Interesting? yes; Fun to play with? sure; useful? I still dont see it
 

Cyrus24

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I'm looking forward to seeing/downloading the updated version. From a vacation research/planning standpoint, it's a great tool. Still need the hideous website for dealing with actual availability.
 

MaryBella7

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Have you seen the 500-line Wyndham spreadsheet I built from scratch? I know all about each resort having it's own points!

What I'm looking for is a price to hypothetically "rent" 1M Wyndham points. How much value I will get out of those points might impact I personally am willing to pay, but it won't necessarily directly impact how much they will sell for (in the style of renting I am talking about).

-Scott

There is no hypothetically renting 1M points. Every resort is different, and will rent differently. A 4th of July rental in a place that would be 200,000 points at the beach is going to cost you a heck of a lot more than a 4th of July rental in another location that may cost the same # of points. Demand for a location and how much time in advance you know where you want to go are pretty important. You also seem to be under the impression that people will rent for their cost - perhaps low demand places, but you aren't likely getting week 52 at a ski resort at cost.

For example, even in Myrtle Beach. There are multiple resorts, and they have different costs. If you want Seawatch in the summer, it will cost you 203,000 for a 2 BR. If you stay at Ocean Boulevard, a 2 bedroom will range from 300,000 to 425,000. People who own at each pay diff maintenance fees per point. Most will tell you that it is much more difficult to get a reservation at Seawatch than Ocean Boulevard, so even though the point cost is less, the rental would likely be more $/point than an Ocean Boulevard. There is a lot more that needs to be considered beyond just numeric data. Ron's Leonard/Sheldon analogy is a good one. Are you gathering the data because it interests you, or do you want to solve a problem/get advice. The pure numeric data is only really useful if you are interested, but it isn't going to give you an answer about whether owning or renting is better for YOU. You need to know where and when you want to go and how easy/difficult it is to be there when you want to be there - without that factored in, the numbers are meaningless.

If you want a high demand resort at a high demand time (NO Mardi Gras, summer at Glacier Canyon, etc.), you will be better off owning if you don't want to pay a premium price for rental. If you want to stay off season at less demand resorts, you may be better off renting.
 

skotrla

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Did you put Edisto in with a different name? National Harbor and Alexandria are in a slot for "DC" and not in the states where they exist<--this actually makes sense, but it is easy to miss them. Thanks for adding St. Thomas.

Change Avenue Plaza to LA (not IL).
Where is Austin? It's new! Galveston and Boston and that fancy pants hotel in the Carolinas and Pittsburgh are affiliates and bookable with timeshare points.

The affiliate resorts (all of Mexico and Australia/New Zealand etc.) are not exchanges, but are limited in number of units available. The same is true of Chicago (I think only 42 units are timeshare). Brazil and Margaritaville resorts are also new.

Club Pass IS an exchange to Worldmark Resorts, HOWEVER, many of the Worldmark resorts are also affiliates--with as few as 2 units available. So technically, they are also bookable using regular Wyndham points. You have some of them, like Angel, in your spreadsheet.

The point value doesn't necessarily mean that the unit is Bigger/Nicer/more valuable. It just means that it is in a newer resort. Alexandria is a prime location and is very few points in January. And for some strange reason, Bonnet Creek is not PRIME season during most Thanksgiving weeks--giving that week a bigger bang for the buck. Also what Wyndham owners know or need to know is that a day Sunday-Thursday is typically 1/2 the number of points as a Friday or Saturday. Those who want to stretch points will save if they have more "midweek" days than Fridays or Saturdays. I love the flexibility of NOT having to take a full week, as I have a church job and never can stay a Saturday night.

I changed the DC ones - I was wondering why they were out of place. Fixed Avenue Plaza. Ocean Ridge and King Cotton Villas are in Edisto.

If you send links to points for any new resorts, I'll add them.

I'm only including resorts that are fully part of the program and at which you can use VIP benefits - if someone wants to create a spreadsheet with the affiliates, I can link to it or add it to mine. Angels Camp is listed as both Club Wyndham (p.26) and Cub Pass (p.221).

Newer = more valuable/higher demand/higher points

-Scott
 

skotrla

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So do i have this right?

you have taken all the info in the various points charts and put it in one chart. good job and it helps with a question Ive tried to answer in the past

I used to enjoy messing with the numbers to figure out whether a person could live in a wyndham timeshare full time on a social security income, your chart would help with that question....I see several studios at about 3 million points per year.. whats missing is the maintenance fees... so lets assume $5/1000 So thats $15000/yr ($1250/mo) so the answer is yes, a couple probably could, but which resorts do I buy to get that low mf.?.. The chart is no help here and Id like to live somewhere with good public transportation... again the chart dosent help me

To Jans question.. where are the cheaper resorts that have decent weather in their off season.... I dont see weather data here either .. I dont see how this answers her question without it

As I see it, this chart takes data already presented in the directory and puts it on one page..The only thing new is the total points for the year

Interesting? yes; Fun to play with? sure; useful? I still dont see it

Maintenance costs change every year and there is no single source. You are correct that this just repackages what's in the guide over 200 pages into 1 500-line spreadsheet. If someone has a list of 2018 maintenance costs for all 500 lines of the spreadsheet (plus the variations that exist within a single line for different phases of the same resort with the same points values), then I will be happy to add it.

-Scott
 

skotrla

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There is no hypothetically renting 1M points. Every resort is different, and will rent differently. A 4th of July rental in a place that would be 200,000 points at the beach is going to cost you a heck of a lot more than a 4th of July rental in another location that may cost the same # of points. Demand for a location and how much time in advance you know where you want to go are pretty important. You also seem to be under the impression that people will rent for their cost - perhaps low demand places, but you aren't likely getting week 52 at a ski resort at cost.

For example, even in Myrtle Beach. There are multiple resorts, and they have different costs. If you want Seawatch in the summer, it will cost you 203,000 for a 2 BR. If you stay at Ocean Boulevard, a 2 bedroom will range from 300,000 to 425,000. People who own at each pay diff maintenance fees per point. Most will tell you that it is much more difficult to get a reservation at Seawatch than Ocean Boulevard, so even though the point cost is less, the rental would likely be more $/point than an Ocean Boulevard. There is a lot more that needs to be considered beyond just numeric data. Ron's Leonard/Sheldon analogy is a good one. Are you gathering the data because it interests you, or do you want to solve a problem/get advice. The pure numeric data is only really useful if you are interested, but it isn't going to give you an answer about whether owning or renting is better for YOU. You need to know where and when you want to go and how easy/difficult it is to be there when you want to be there - without that factored in, the numbers are meaningless.

If you want a high demand resort at a high demand time (NO Mardi Gras, summer at Glacier Canyon, etc.), you will be better off owning if you don't want to pay a premium price for rental. If you want to stay off season at less demand resorts, you may be better off renting.

I have quotes on bulk renting 1M points worth of reservations in multiple systems - the hypothetically is me actually renting them. When someone rents points, they tell someone to make a reservation (availability will vary) - typically this is not ARP, since ARP point cost will vary with maintenance of the resort.

When someone make a high demand reservation (usually in ARP), they are making a bet that they will be able to rent out the week for more than they would have been able to bulk rent out the points and they will typically change the pricing over time - typically cancelling the reservation if they are unable to make a premium above what the bulk points were worth.

These are different rental models.

-Scott
 
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MaryBella7

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I have quotes on bulk renting 1M points worth of reservations in multiple systems - the hypothetically is me actually renting them. When someone rents points, they tell someone to make a reservation (availability will vary) - typically this is not ARP, since, ARP points will vary with maintenance of the resort.

When someone make a high demand reservation (usually in ARP), they are making a bet that they will be able to rent out the week for more than they would have been able to bulk rent out the points and they will typically change the pricing over time - typically cancelling the reservation if they are unable to make a premium above what the bulk points were worth.

These are different rental models.

-Scott
Gotcha. I thought you were looking to rent for yourself. I don't think that the changes Wyndham has made will make it easy to turn a profit if that is any help to you.
 

ronparise

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I have quotes on bulk renting 1M points worth of reservations in multiple systems - the hypothetically is me actually renting them. When someone rents points, they tell someone to make a reservation (availability will vary) - typically this is not ARP, since, ARP points will vary with maintenance of the resort.

When someone make a high demand reservation (usually in ARP), they are making a bet that they will be able to rent out the week for more than they would have been able to bulk rent out the points and they will typically change the pricing over time - typically cancelling the reservation if they are unable to make a premium above what the bulk points were worth.

These are different rental models.

-Scott


so let me restate what I think I heard....

There are two ways to do rentals

1) make high value reservations (on spec) and then look for your customer (advertise) to pay market rates. The possibility exists that you the market is not enough to cover your fees, in which case you cancel

and

2) make reservations on demand or reservations to order for your customer, charging a "fair price" for your points



Now if I understand you correctly, you are building spread sheets for various timeshare systems to help folks that might want to rent. I just dont see how what you have done helps either side of the transaction



Heres my problem:


a million worldmark credits will buy you two years in a studio at avenue plaza
a million wyndham points will buy you 8 weeks in a wyndham studio at avenue plaza

a week at Avenue plaza will cost 9000 worldmark credits vs 126000 wyndham points

This is info I could get from your spreadsheets (if you had one for Worldmark) but I fail to see how it helps me decide whether to approach a wyndham owner or a worldmark owner to rent from. Neither does it help an owner to know how to price his points for rent

Now I happen to know what it costs to own both these systems so I would know which owner is making the most off me... but I dont care... all I know is that I want the reservation
 

skotrla

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Added resort check-in days for Prime reservations made >3 months out (column E).

-Scott
 

skotrla

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so let me restate what I think I heard....

There are two ways to do rentals

1) make high value reservations (on spec) and then look for your customer (advertise) to pay market rates. The possibility exists that you the market is not enough to cover your fees, in which case you cancel

and

2) make reservations on demand or reservations to order for your customer, charging a "fair price" for your points



Now if I understand you correctly, you are building spread sheets for various timeshare systems to help folks that might want to rent. I just dont see how what you have done helps either side of the transaction



Heres my problem:


a million worldmark credits will buy you two years in a studio at avenue plaza
a million wyndham points will buy you 8 weeks in a wyndham studio at avenue plaza

a week at Avenue plaza will cost 9000 worldmark credits vs 126000 wyndham points

This is info I could get from your spreadsheets (if you had one for Worldmark) but I fail to see how it helps me decide whether to approach a wyndham owner or a worldmark owner to rent from. Neither does it help an owner to know how to price his points for rent

Now I happen to know what it costs to own both these systems so I would know which owner is making the most off me... but I dont care... all I know is that I want the reservation

I built the spreadsheet to be able to easily tell how much a a year in one resort compares to one year in another resort in terms of Wyndham points and how much this varies across the whole Wyndham club. My goal is to figure out how to use this information to determine the relative value of points in different systems (HICV for me, but if we collectively come up with an algorithm, it would be extensible across other systems).

The other approach is just to use bulk rental costs (if Wyndham bulk rental points costs 80% of HICV bulk rental points, then Wyndham points are 80% less valuable than HICV points).

Determining bulk point rental rates allows you to determine the owner cost of a specific reservation (based on points for the stay), which can be used for personal or rental purposes to decide whether a given reservation is worth making as an owner in one system vs. another or whether hotels or whether paying cash is better.

I do the same thing with hotel points - I have 100K IHG poiints, but I often use Priceline instead of the IHG points because Priceline is a better deal for a given property. With hotel points it's easier because there are no ownership complexities and the systems regularly sell bulk points at a consistent discounted rate. Some people treat points like free money, but every point I own in every program has a value and an opportunity cost if you waste it on a high point low value reservation.

-Scott
 

skotrla

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Next thing I'm working on is how many each room sleeps, how many bathrooms, and weekend points - first 6 resorts done...

-Scott
 

Nomad34

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Fairfield started in 1966- 1991 as weeks. 1992 to present all are points with conversions to points at a price. With the company split there are many things yet to come in order to do a true comparison.
 
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