Developer's Inventory

[Grandma2016]

If an Event week gets cancelled because of non payment of maintenance fees by an owner and Vistana cancels that week can they rent it out? Also what does it mean when they tell you they have developer's inventory?

 

[DeniseM]

Yes - if the maintenance fee isn't paid the week belongs to Vistana and they can do anything they want with it. Also, at 60 days before check-in, they can confiscate any reservations that haven't been booked, keep them, rent them, and keep the money.

Developer's inventory means any reservations that belong to Vistana - weeks they own/control, weeks that owners traded for Staroptions, foreclosed weeks, etc.

 

[DannyTS]

I do not know the answer but it should not belong to Vistana unless the developer pays the maintenance fees to the HOA for that week. Otherwise the owners foot the bill for the resort expenses while Vistana gets the revenue.

 

[Ken555]

I do not know the answer but it should not belong to Vistana unless the developer pays the maintenance fees to the HOA for that week. Otherwise the owners foot the bill for the resort expenses while Vistana gets the revenue.

Ha! “Should” is rarely the case with timeshare companies...


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[CalGalTraveler]

This is what gives the timeshare industry a bad name. Pure greed. The rental week should go to the HOA to compensate for lost MF for rest of owners. As a property manager paid by the HOA to efficiently manage the property, this double dipping is unethical and may violate the premise of a management contract. I e who hires a property manager and allows them to siphon off the profits of a rental? It seem a percentage rental placement fee of perhaps 20 -25% could be reasonable but not 100%

 

[DannyTS]

This is what gives the timeshare industry a bad name Pure greed. The rental week should go to the HOA to compensate for lost MF for rest of owners. As a property manager paid by the HOA to efficiently manage the property, this double dipping is unethical and may violate the premise of a management contract. I e who hires a property manager and allows them to siphon off the profits of a rental? It seem a percentage rental placement fee of perhaps 25% could be reasonable but not 100%

We also know that the developer keeps the best weeks of the year to rent for a higher profit so the owners get screwed twice.

 

[vacationtime1]

We also know that the developer keeps the best weeks of the year to rent for a higher profit so the owners get screwed twice.

How do we know that?

Which developers? Which properties? Which weeks?

It's easy to trash certain aspects of timeshare developers. But let's use facts.

 

[DannyTS]

How do we know that?

Which developers? Which properties? Which weeks?

It's easy to trash certain aspects of timeshare developers. But let's use facts.

The fact is that the developers control 100% of the booking both for the owners and for the weeks the developers own. Nobody is naive to believe that they would keep for themselves weeks of a lesser rental value. I believe that they have all the means and the financial motivation to maximize their rental margins.

When busy weeks are still found on Expedia but not available to owners, the suspicion is strengthened. This is not 100% proof, i agree, but i would be shocked if it were otherwise.

 

[DeniseM]

At 60 days before check-in, and for event weeks, Vistana can cherry pick any unreserved inventory and put it in their own rentals. This is a documented fact.

 

[TravelTime]

This is what gives the timeshare industry a bad name. Pure greed. The rental week should go to the HOA to compensate for lost MF for rest of owners. As a property manager paid by the HOA to efficiently manage the property, this double dipping is unethical and may violate the premise of a management contract. I e who hires a property manager and allows them to siphon off the profits of a rental? It seem a percentage rental placement fee of perhaps 20 -25% could be reasonable but not 100%

The timeshare industry gets a bad name due to the sales tactics. Most of what happens after is fine. Tuggers do not like the details but in the big picture, timeshares are a great deal after the sale, even with these problems.

 

[TravelTime]

How do we know that?

Which developers? Which properties? Which weeks?

It's easy to trash certain aspects of timeshare developers. But let's use facts.

Facts??? We do not use the facts anymore than the TS salespeople when their lips are moving.

 

[TravelTime]

The fact is that the developers control 100% of the booking both for the owners and for the weeks the developers own. Nobody is naive to believe that they would keep for themselves weeks of a lesser rental value. I believe that they have all the means and the financial motivation to maximize their rental margins.

When busy weeks are still found on Expedia but not available to owners, the suspicion is strengthened. This is not 100% proof, i agree, but i would be shocked if it were otherwise.



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I suspect that developers renting out the excess units ends up being good for the owners. I obviously do not know the ins and outs but if a resort loses money, I assume the developer will raise MFs. So I do not resent if developers save some units for rental.

The irony in TUG discussions is we say the developers are greedy. However, I also see that Tuggers obsess on getting the best deals at the expense of other owners and going to TS presentations for benefits and a lot more. So who is greedy?


Why are we allowed to be greedy but not for profit businesses?

 

[DannyTS]

I suspect that developers renting out the excess units ends up being good for the owners. I obviously do not know the ins and outs but if a resort loses money, I assume the developer will raise MFs. So I do not resent if developers save some units for rental.

I am not sure it was clear but we were discussing whether the developers do keep for themselves a bigger chunk of the more valuable weeks of the year. Say the developer owns 10% of the floating inventory but it keeps 20% of weeks 51 and 52 to rent out. If that happens indeed I do not see how it would benefit the owners who would be deprived of usage of those weeks as well as a potential higher rental income.

Furthermore, my understanding is that the owners pay the maintenance fees to the home owners's association and that the HOA pays for all the costs of the resorts. If Vistana makes more rental income I do not see how that benefits the budget of the resort. A lot of the extra money would just go to feed possible dividends to the stockholders, sometimes even to corporate fat and excesses.

I do see what you are saying, it is better for them to be overfed than underfed, i agree with that. There is not a high correlation though between how well they are doing and our benefits.

 

[TravelTime]

I am not sure it was clear but we were discussing whether the developers do keep for themselves a bigger chunk of the more valuable weeks of the year. Say the developer owns 10% of the floating inventory but it keeps 20% of weeks 51 and 52 to rent out. If that happens indeed I do not see how it would benefit the owners who would be deprived of usage of those weeks as well as a potential higher rental income.

Furthermore, my understanding is that the owners pay the maintenance fees to the home owners's association and that the HOA pays for all the costs of the resorts. If Vistana makes more rental income I do not see how that benefits the budget of the resort. A lot of the extra money would just go to feed possible dividends to the stockholders, sometimes even to corporate fat and excesses.

I do see what you are saying, it is better for them to be overfed than underfed, i agree with that. There is not a high correlation though between how well they are doing and our benefits.

Is there any evidence that developers keep a higher proportion of week 51 and 52 for rentals?

 

[DeniseM]

Is there any evidence that developers keep a higher proportion of week 51 and 52 for rentals?

At the high demand resorts like Maui - they keep ALL of the [weeks that the owners aren't using.] At lower demand resorts, they cherry pick. This is all spelled out in the Docs you get at purchase - when they give you a hard copy, it's literally a good-size paperback book.

 

[vacationtime1]

Is there any evidence that developers keep a higher proportion of week 51 and 52 for rentals?

At the high demand resorts like Maui - they keep ALL of the [weeks that the owners aren't using.]. At lower demand resorts, they cherry pick. This is all spelled out in the Docs you get at purchase - when they give you a hard copy, it's literally a good-size paperback book.

How can the developer keep ALL week 51 and 52 units when most of them were sold as event weeks? Week 51/52 owners either use those weeks or rent those weeks. There may be a few week 51 or 52 units that were turned in for points or used as StarOptions, but I suspect that number is low AND the developer had to pay those owners (in the form of hotel points or StarOptions) to acquire those weeks.

Let's be clear: we are talking only about weeks that were not reserved within sixty days of check-in (as DeniseM points out in post #2).

 

[DeniseM]

How can the developer keep ALL week 51 and 52 units when most of them were sold as event weeks?

They keep all of them that the owners aren't going to use. (I clarified above.) That's why you never see event weeks available in the resort inventory.

In addition to weeks that are not reserved within 60 days of check-in, Vistana can hoover up all event weeks which the owner isn't going to use - they don't put them back into inventory for other owners to access.

Also - not all owners make reservations. I often hear stories from elderly or disorganized owners who simply pay the maintenance fees and then do nothing and just waste their usage year after year. It's more common than you think. I have talked to people who buy, and then NEVER use their timeshare. This creates unreserved inventory - that no one gets Staroptions or Starpoints for.

*If you are an Elite Owner, call up Owner Services and ask to wait list for week 51 or 52 on Maui - they will tell you that those weeks are Event Weeks and aren't available. If you ask what happens to the weeks that the owners aren't going to use, an honest Phone Rep. will tell you that Vistana rents them.

*I'm not saying that Vistana is breaking the rules - these ARE the rules.

 

[TravelTime]

They keep all of them that the owners aren't going to use. (I clarified above.) That's why you never see event weeks available in the resort inventory.

In addition to weeks that are not reserved within 60 days of check-in, Vistana can hoover up all event weeks which the owner isn't going to use - they don't put them back into inventory for other owners to access.

Also - not all owners make reservations. I often hear stories from elderly or disorganized owners who simply pay the maintenance fees and then do nothing and just waste their usage year after year. It's more common than you think. I have talked to people who buy, and then NEVER use their timeshare. This creates unreserved inventory - that no one gets Staroptions or Starpoints for.

*If you are an Elite Owner, call up Owner Services and ask to wait list for week 51 or 52 on Maui - they will tell you that those weeks are Event Weeks and aren't available. If you ask what happens to the weeks that the owners aren't going to use, an honest Phone Rep. will tell you that Vistana rents them.

*I'm not saying that Vistana is breaking the rules - these ARE the rules.

The way you describe it, this sounds fine. They are just keeping weeks that owners are not using but paid MFs on. They have disclosed this to owners and it is the rules.

It seems like this is different than what the other Tuggers were describing. The Tuggers on this thread were saying that it is unfair for the developer to keep the weeks that owners have not paid MFs on and rent it out without paying the MF. Is this happening?

 

[DeniseM]

I don't know when they pay the maintenance fees and when they don't.

 

[TravelTime]

It seems to me if the developer has the MFs paid whether it is through point conversion or owners not using their weeks, then they are following the rules when they keep the best weeks for renting.

 

[DeniseM]

*I'm not saying that Vistana is breaking the rules - these ARE the rules.

I'm not saying they aren't following the rules - I'm saying that the rules favor the management company.

 

[DannyTS]

How can the developer keep ALL week 51 and 52 units when most of them were sold as event weeks? Week 51/52 owners either use those weeks or rent those weeks. There may be a few week 51 or 52 units that were turned in for points or used as StarOptions, but I suspect that number is low AND the developer had to pay those owners (in the form of hotel points or StarOptions) to acquire those weeks.

Let's be clear: we are talking only about weeks that were not reserved within sixty days of check-in (as DeniseM points out in post #2).

At Lagunamar for example, only 50% of the weeks 51 and 52 were sold as event weeks so the other 50% should be open for everyone who owns platinum season.

What would keep Vistana from blocking (before the 12 months window opens) most of the available 50% and keeping it for rental purposes given that they own weeks as well and also control the reservation system?

 

[TravelTime]

For Lagunamar, the StarOptions chart does not include weeks 51 and 52 for exchanging. I do not know what the agreement was with Platinum weeks owners.

OTOH, for Hawaii, exchangers can technically exchange in weeks 1-52.

 

[DannyTS]

For Lagunamar, the StarOptions chart does not include weeks 51 and 52 for exchanging. I do not know what the agreement was with Platinum weeks owners.

OTOH, for Hawaii, exchangers can technically exchange in weeks 1-52.

Platinum season at Lagunamar includes weeks 51-52, owners there should be able to book 12 months before

 

[DeniseM]

OTOH, for Hawaii, exchangers can technically exchange in weeks 1-52.

*If you are an Elite Owner, call up Owner Services and ask to wait list for week 51 or 52 on Maui - they will tell you that those weeks are Event Weeks and aren't available. If you ask what happens to the weeks that the owners aren't going to use, an honest Phone Rep. will tell you that Vistana rents them.