nick@ihug.co.nz
newbie
I hope that was a typo.
yes major typo .....
I hope that was a typo.
I looked over DHH reasonably closely, but in the end went with HCC as a 2nd DC membership. While I liked alot of what I saw with DHH, there were several downsides in our particular situation:
PRO DHH
- International emphasis
- The Yachts!!
- The expanded services, such as maid and/or butler on-site, RT airport transfers, and luxury car on-site.
CONS
- Reservation must be Sunday to Sunday; this is really hard, especially with international destinations, where you either have to send the kids back to school with jet-lag or have them miss the Monday... Why sit around twiddling your thumbs on a Saturday, then leave on Sunday, and get back with no time to catch up before Monday morning? IMHO, Sat-Sat is infinately preferable.
- "Lite" members (the $25K entry point) cannot use the 86' motoryacht, as it requires 8 days plus two advanced booking credits... Other future homes may also require more than one day per night of usage.
- Cost per night is substantially higher than HCC, PE, etc., even after accounting for F&B credit, car, etc.
Just my thoughts... Do others agree that a Sun-Sun is difficult, esp. for international travel?
I have been reviewing the membership rules and am very close to making a decision (I've got 30 days left) There are a few things I don't understand, some may be bad, some, very good.
1. It appears from the rules and regulations that the dues and fees are exclusive of all "taxes", except income taxes for the club. I don't understand what those taxes are. Does that also include real estate taxes??? For some of these destinations, this may be $30,000 + per property. If there is 50% occupancy (26 weeks) this can amount to over $1000 (or even more) per week in additional fees. And then what other taxes are there? That's bad.
2. If you are a lite member, you cannot make a reservation in the 30-90 day window, even using and advanced reservation token. That's bad.
3. You can't make a reservation for the first 8 weeks after membership. I don't understand this rule. That's bad
4. It appears that your children (immediate family includes only children, not parents or siblings- they are considered extended family) can be on the vacation alone as long as they are at least 23 years of age for ALL of the weeks. Extended family need to use the extended family tokens. That's good
5. It appears that if you find someone to take over your membership, you can transfer it to them for a cancellation administrative fee, currently $5,000. You may be able to transfer you membership without losing the 20% if you can find someone to transfer it to. That's very good.
I think that I am reading this correctly. I still am confused about the tax thing. Please correct me if I am wrong.
in addition to banking, lite members can book the 86' yacht ~30 days out for $2400/week.
I looked over DHH reasonably closely, but in the end went with HCC as a 2nd DC membership. While I liked alot of what I saw with DHH, there were several downsides in our particular situation:
PRO DHH
- International emphasis
- The Yachts!!
- The expanded services, such as maid and/or butler on-site, RT airport transfers, and luxury car on-site.
CONS
- Reservation must be Sunday to Sunday; this is really hard, especially with international destinations, where you either have to send the kids back to school with jet-lag or have them miss the Monday... Why sit around twiddling your thumbs on a Saturday, then leave on Sunday, and get back with no time to catch up before Monday morning? IMHO, Sat-Sat is infinately preferable.
- "Lite" members (the $25K entry point) cannot use the 86' motoryacht, as it requires 8 days plus two advanced booking credits... Other future homes may also require more than one day per night of usage.
- Cost per night is substantially higher than HCC, PE, etc., even after accounting for F&B credit, car, etc.
Just my thoughts... Do others agree that a Sun-Sun is difficult, esp. for international travel?
Nick,
Your responses are truly impressive.(Even on a holiday weekend-just joking, I know that it is not labor day weekend in New Zealand) I do not think that I will be able to resist the temptation to join. I was going to join at Lite to try it but now I will have to think some more about it. You are clearing my original doubt about DHH being able to deliver.
1. It takes 8 days and two reseravaton to use the 86 yacht, those with 7 days per year plan will be excluded , am I right ?It's Fathers Day here today ( Sunday ), should be chilling, but i looked at my email ( dumb move ) and so couldn't help myself .... i have staff all around the world, on all different time zones , so i find my job is a little 24 hours a day anyway ....( i secretly love it anyway, it is my hobby and my job, you can't bet that .... )
Happy to have you aboard at what ever level suits you .....this forum is so very useful for gaining real time feedback on things ... i am glad it was brought to my attention .....
Ethan my 7 year old wants to kick a soccer ball ... so i am done for now
1. It takes 8 days and two reseravaton to use the 86 yacht, those with 7 days per year plan will be excluded , am I right ?
2. The yachts are stationed in Europe and south pacific, but none in the America, is taht correct? If not, where and when?
3. Food allowance is based on grocery cost of purchase? As a vegetarian and not a drinker.
4. All clubs starting out give their charter members the option to upgrade to more extensive plans within a time window where the upgrade diffenece is based on current prevailiing rate. Is this being contemplated. I believe this is a major draw to overcome and instill confidence in DHH as a bonus to those who take chances today. The downside to DHH is zero. EArly adopters take chances and should be rewarded heavily.
NickResponse:
4. We will take this under consideration , as it is a valid point , however we are exceedingly inexpensive at the moment ...i will respond to this within the week ....
3. Food allowance is based on grocery cost of purchase? As a vegetarian and not a drinker.
very good! i presume you mean premium, correct? (#1) deluxe is currently 90 days.nick said:Deluxe members will have a SAB window of 90 days vs the 60 at present
instead of waitlisting, very interesting.nick said:allows us time to open property to cover membership growth.
VERY interesting! so you just pay a $5K fee to the club to transfer the membership? (#2)nick said:You have saved him a bunch of money , while he would still only get $80,000 back when he leaves ....you would no doubt have a discussion about what it was worth for him to save all that money ....
value is great, although IMHO the interior design of the 65' is better. too bad its the one farther away. OTOH gives me another reason to make a trip over therenick said:I personally prefer the 53' yacht
agreed - i also like the "romance" of sailing (as in the feeling of tradition/history/etc)LTTravel said:Those fuel costs for an 86ft motor yacht are a killer($400 for every 20 nautical miles, ) . How about another sailboat in the Carribean? .
1. to avoid confusion, when I say the "current and prevailing" rate, I mean the rack rate at the time of joing membership.Response:
1. Not excluded , as you can bring a week from next year and use it this year , or wait until it is 30 days from your stay , and book it using your week plus 1 SAB day at $300 or use your week elsewhere and then just wait until 30 days out , and then use 8 x $300 SAB days to go for a week ....
2. Yes , but we are working on a 86 ft yacht for the Caribbean which we hope to have in place for this season ....
3. Yes , cost of purchase, and you choose what you want , and how much , we provide an allowance to stock the home ahead of arrival ... some people use more or less than the allowance , depends on the number of people staying and what you prefer to eat / drink ....
4. We will take this under consideration , as it is a valid point , however we are exceedingly inexpensive at the moment ...i will respond to this within the week ....
nick said:5. You can find someone to take your place , not your membership , you are refunded the 80 % , and they pay what you were refunded to join, they can also take over any bookings you had in the system at the time. However they are on a new membership , and yours is canceled. Eg say in 10 years a 4 week membership is $400,000 and you wanted to leave and were owed 80,000 back ( 80 % of 100,000 ) you could invite a friend to take your place , they would pay $80,000 and you would get back your $80,000. Now your friend if he had have joined of the street, just his non refundable part would have been $80,000. You have saved him a bunch of money , while he would still only get $80,000 back when he leaves ....you would no doubt have a discussion about what it was worth for him to save all that money ....
Nick
If this is in place, it will be an absolute no brainer to join.
Just want to make a comment about your web site, since you do look at this thread for useful feedback
1. The main photos of the destinations are great. The thumbnails in the bottom right corner are not clear and do not give your destinations justice. I think that most people who consider DC's are internet savvy and will scour the web sites, I think that full size pictures will offer a better representation of your wonderful destinations. Perhaps even a link to a PDF of your brochure.
2. There is an error in calculation under your column, Membership, Dollars and Sense, Review the Figures in Detail. Under Rental property you have;
Motor Vehicle $4200 (OK, conservative figure)
Vacation Costs $3600 (To be fair to DHH, it should be $4000)
Nightly Charges $70,000 ($2500/day, a fair figure for this quality)
Total $77,800 for 28 days
Daily Cost $1691 (Where did this come from? Should be:
$77,800/28 or $2779)
Hope this is helpful
Those fuel costs for an 86ft motor yacht are a killer($400 for every 20 nautical miles, ) . How about another sailboat in the Carribean? I will try to convince others to join.
very good! i presume you mean premium, correct? (#1) deluxe is currently 90 days.
instead of waitlisting, very interesting.
VERY interesting! so you just pay a $5K fee to the club to transfer the membership? (#2)
value is great, although IMHO the interior design of the 65' is better. too bad its the one farther away. OTOH gives me another reason to make a trip over there
agreed - i also like the "romance" of sailing (as in the feeling of tradition/history/etc)
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i definitely like what im hearing about your property/destination selection strategies, many of your policies, and your pricing.
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one clarification - re use by children - can they also use the space available(SAB?) nights? (#3)
also, correct me if i am wrong, but wasnt one of the yachts either in Martha's Vineyard/Bahamas earlier this year, or scheduled to be later this year until a scheduling change? (#4)
1. to avoid confusion, when I say the "current and prevailing" rate, I mean the rack rate at the time of joing membership.
I believe that a three year window for members joining now to upgrade is fair. Most clubs offer this now when it comes down to closing the deal as there is simply no down side.
2. The other clincher is to offer some upside appreciation in membership fee, provided that the member stays in the club for a certain period of time. Statistics show that those who stay around for three years and happy do not leave. That is already proven. On the contrary ,they act as the best salesman for you to recruit new members because they already know the system and they want their friends to do things together within the same system. Members are thus lock in for you over time and you can count on their repeat annual dues. UR and Cresendo have similar packages. The days of 80% straight refund without upside is something of the past unless you are ER. Too much competition out there.
I would suggest something like:
90% of prevailing membership price for members in the club five or more years
80% of prevailing membership price for memebrs in the club 3-5 years
80% of price paid for membersship under three years as you currently have unchanged.
as the club gets stronger, you can choose to stop this in time or simply extend the time period out longer to have a carrot out there for new members, but not as good as charter members. Its a win win for club and members. Now you can also label yourself as a "equity" type club- another good sales point.
I belivee if you adopt the above , togehter with a three year upgrade window. you are giving away nothing in practical terms, but gaining confidence and overcome and cover all the basis of why people dont want to joinn. As well, and most important, you are locking in long term members without maketing cost and eliminate drop out , but guarantees you recurrent and rising annual dues revenue stream in this early phase. This type of carrot you throw out does not affact cash flow . This is not the same as offering too much service you cannot deliver which affact cash flow.
THese two suggestions are cash flow neutral to positive, annual fee positive. Almost all clubs all have done similar programs when they started out. No one complaint then and no one complain now. Only people who miss it kicks themselvs, and those who have it stay on as members and will never leave. Win win for operator and member.
Because DHH is so new and DC as a whole is still a young concept, you are not goign to get 200 people to join even before SEpt 30, 2007 even if you offer the two suggestions. So the max you have is say 30-50 members, but this will be your core group to start spreadinig the word for you. So in the worse worse case senerio, and say you have a redemption rate of of one in four, your down side is 10 members taking "advantage" of this 5 years down the line, when you arleady would have hundreds of members, making this redemption, even if carried out en mass, meaningless in the overall scheme of things. But you have locked in 5 years of annual dues in a stroke, so in the worse case, you still come out ahead in cash flow while any redempton may or may not happen until 5 years out.
The bottom line is that whatever you do in this charter period is only going to affact a small number of people. But this is the key group taht will be your ambassador . They will save you a lot of $$$ in markting cost. That alone is worth hundreds times more $$$$$$. The more carrot you throw out provide that it is not immedaite cash flow negative, the better it is for you over time in my opinion.
The complete charter package :
1. 25k joing fee for 7 days unchanged
2. $1000 a day with all the amenties you promised unchanged
3. Ability to roll foward as you already have in place now
4. Abiliy to upgrade within 3 years
5. participate in the appreciation of membership fee with lock in period
Who would not join if they are half way serious? All this done at practically no down side to you.
thats odd, i would have sworn i saw those destinations on a yacht schedule originally..
(when i made this post http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=368369&postcount=4)
can members' children book SAB nights @ $300 rate?
it is the premium membership SAB window that is changing from 60 to 90 days, correct?
and so there is a $5K fee when transferring membership?
I am open to the idea of allowing a time window for upgrade to people who are early adopters , so they can pay the same amount , for some time in the future ... will be back with a response re this within the week ...
Am looking forward to your decision on this.