Do Wyndham VIP benefits transfer with a resale?

[ecwinch]

Blame in all on Ron.... jk.

 

[dgalati]

Blame in all on Ron.... jk.

Ron found a loophole and took advantage of it. No harm no foul. Only way I know of to become VIP on the cheap is to have a family member add your name to the deed.

 

[dgalati]

Wyndham was beat at their own game by a few who found this loophole and exploited it for their personal gain. I call this capitalism at its best. Wyndham shut it down mostly to run off the mega renters that were eating Extra Holidays lunch. I hope no one believes it was to help the smaller owners find more availability. Wyndham could care less who is in the room as long as they rent it at a profit to them of course.

 

[Braindead]

I hope no one believes it was to help the smaller owners find more availability. Wyndham could care less who is in the room as long as they rent it at a profit to them of course.

You obviously have your facts wrong! The average owner has seen more availability as has been reported here in the Wyndham Forum
1. Ron himself reported he was astonished at how long Mardi Gras reservations were still available
2. It’s been reported how much easier it’s been to get Bike Week & Daytona 500 reservations at Ocean Walk
3. It’s been reported by owners on more availability at Glacier Canyon for summer vacations.
Those are just a few that have been reported.

I’ll say it one more “us owners paid to buy out the mega renters” that probably had huge impact on us the owners seeing the program fee jump again in such a short timeframe.

Can you not understand that us the owners paid the bill NOT Wyndham to fix the abuses of a few??
You should be outraged not praising the abuses, colluding, circumventing the rules by a few owners. I’m sure you’ll come back & state how great the mega renters were for the average small owner

 

[dgalati]

You obviously have your facts wrong! The average owner has seen more availability as has been reported here in the Wyndham Forum
1. Ron himself reported he was astonished at how long Mardi Gras reservations were still available
2. It’s been reported how much easier it’s been to get Bike Week & Daytona 500 reservations at Ocean Walk
3. It’s been reported by owners on more availability at Glacier Canyon for summer vacations.
Those are just a few that have by reported.

I’ll say it one more “us owners paid to buy out the mega renters” that probably had huge impact on us the owners seeing the program fee jump again in such a short timeframe.

Can you not understand that us the owners paid the bill NOT Wyndham to fix the abuses of a few??
You should be outraged not praising the abuses, colluding, circumventing the rules by a few owners. I’m sure you’ll come back & state how great the mega renters were for the average small owner

BD,
Do you really think Wyndham's intent was to help us owners? Of course it was paid for by us. Mega renters just beat Wyndham at their own game. I don't call it abuse if they found a loop hole and exploited it. They were playing within Wyndham rules. Cancel and rebook was never a benefit on the books but Wyndham sold it as one. Fact is Wyndham ran off mega renters to benefit themselves. Wyndham will change rules when it helps them. Don't believe it was to help the common or smaller owner. JMHO

 

[dgalati]

BD,
Do you believe Wyndham helped us or themselves with changes? I feel it was a way to help Wyndham themselves as the biggest mega renter. You think Wyndham is really helping owners by letting them give Wyndham their points to rent at a 60/40 split at best.

 

[dgalati]

I don't have a problem with any individual mega renter. I do have a issue with Wyndham shutting down or squeezing guys like Ron out to benefit themselves. JMHO

 

[Cyrus24]

The average owner has seen more availability as has been reported here in the Wyndham Forum

As an average owner, I can say that I've seen more availability and I've seen more upgrades. I never used Cancel/Rebook as I just did not have enough points to play the multiple reservations game and I would never risk losing a vacation. As much as I hated to see the credit pool be taken away, I'm accepting it as a trade off for better availability, more discount reservation options, and more upgrades.

 

[ecwinch]

BD,
Do you believe Wyndham helped us or themselves with changes? I feel it was a way to help Wyndham themselves as the biggest mega renter. You think Wyndham is really helping owners by letting them give Wyndham their points to rent at a 60/40 split at best.

The real world is not so binary as your question. The answer is both.

And of course Wyndham is helping owners who choose to use their services. Owners have alternatives if they want to rent on their own and assume the risk/hassle/work. And by comparison at one of my resorts, the HOA is only receiving a 65/35 split on the rental of HOA inventory.

 

[kaljor]

You know what's interesting to think about? In this forum we're only aware of the few "megarenters" who are members and who posted frequently. I wonder how many others were "encouraged" to give up their Wyndham ownership and was that a significant enough number to create more availability.

On a personal note, I learned a ton of useful information from a couple of the "megarenters" in this forum before I decided to purchase, and that knowledge helped me get the right amount of points at the right costs for me to enjoy this Wyndham system immensely. As a non VIP and a non renter. So thank you to those folks, and to all the others who have posted and continue to post knowledgeable answers in this forum.

 

[dgalati]

The real world is not so binary as your question. The answer is both.

And of course Wyndham is helping owners who choose to use their services. Owners have alternatives if they want to rent on their own and assume the risk/hassle/work. And by comparison at one of my resorts, the HOA is only receiving a 65/35 split on rental of HOA inventory.

Eric,
You are 100% correct. The changes helped me and many other owners. On the flip side some took it on the chin. The only thing I am disappointed about is not taking advantage of becoming a VIP at a huge discount before the loophole was closed.

 

[ecwinch]

Eric,
You are 100% correct. The changes helped me and many other owners. On the flip side some took it on the chin. The only thing I am disappointed about is not taking advantage of becoming a VIP at a huge discount before the loophole was closed.

As with all things, the return to mean (RTM) was inevitable.

And I would not lose any sleep over on missing out on the VIP, as it was a high risk/reward strategy in the path Ron laid out - i.e. you had to have the deeds in hand, and be in the right place/right time. At any point in the game the rules could have changed (as they latter did) and you would be stuck with weeks you probably would rather not own (from a dues per pt). I dont think it was as widely exploited as you might think.

The irony here is that many of the owners who were offered the deal (even on more favorable terms) - felt it was an attempt to rip them off.

 

[Vee Ts]

This loophole reportedly has been closed. A few years back, you could purchase resale deeds at certain resorts. And then after you were the owner of those deeds, you would make a small retail purchase ($20k), and they would “convert” those deeded weeks into points that would count toward VIP.

This sounds similar to our discussion in the other thread. I would need to make a small purchase (ex. 84k CWP) to convert my existing Shell points to CWP. Now I understand your comment of 84k CWP for $17k might be worth it to reach a certain status.

 

[ecwinch]

This sounds similar to our discussion in the other thread. I would need to make a small purchase (ex. 84k CWP) to convert my existing Shell points to CWP. Now I understand your comment of 84k CWP for $17k might be worth it to reach a certain status.

Good job reading the threads. It is very similar in regards to being a low-cost route to reaching VIP status in Club Wyndham. In my case I had to make a 126k purchase for around $20k.

 

[Vee Ts]

Good job reading the threads. It is very similar in regards to being a low-cost route to reaching VIP status in Club Wyndham. In my case I had to make a 126k purchase for around $20k.

So with the other acquisitions made by Wyndham, have they ever offered a conversion from the previous Timeshare Resort (whether it's deed week or Points) to Wyndham Points without needing to purchase new Wyndham Points?

 

[Sandy VDH]

I probably do 70% of my bookings at the 2 month mark for the 50% of and whatever upgrades area available from my VIPP account.

I don't believe I have seen a big change in availability, at least at the locations I book at. But the upgrade is still wonky. It sometimes works, it sometimes is available, there are times of the day (Midnight ET for a hour or more exactly 60 days out when it doesn't work at all, so perhaps we can guess that might be when a batch job for matching for upgrade requests runs, who knows.)

The new wyndham online still have some ways to go to better represent inventory and work efficiently. But don't hold your breath it has already been out for 2 years now. Why rush it.

 

[AnthonyTraveller]

If you own 200000 points you are paying mf on 200000 points. If you buy 200000 more points you have to mf on that too

Regarding the vip loophole

Another tugger told me he had done this through a certain salesperson at Bali Hai I bought several weeks at the the pahio resorts through eBay then bought a 126k eoy from that salesman and they converted three of the weeks to vip eligible points the cost was $12000, I paid 6000 cash and financed the rest. Then I did it again for a second vip account.

Then with another tugger we figured out how to make a vip account with all resale points. I made three like this so I ended up with 5 platinum vip accounts

Then in August 2016 wyndham suspended all my accounts and the accounts of a number of other owners because we had more reservations than the contracts we owned supported and they didn’t know how that could be possible. A close look at our account histories taught them a lesson. In my case, aggressive use of the credit pool, and vip discounts (cancel, rebook and upgrade) and selling contracts stripped of points gave me accounts with 90 million points in reservations (nearly all at a 50% discount). At the time I owned only 10 million points

So the end result is I’m out, there is no more credit pool, no more cheap vip accounts, and you can’t sell a contract stripped of points

Sorry

Hi Ron, from what I have read you seem really knowledgable about Wyndham.

I am new to this forum, so I wanted to reach out to you and forgive me if I repeat any questions that may have been addressed before.

Really appreciate any help in advance on the following questions:

1. Will PIC points count towards the new Privileges levels? (right now I have 2 3-bedrooms which enables me to reach Platinum status under the current program using PIC points, but I don't know if the new Privileges will be the same)

2. My fiancée owns with Wyndham as well, and once we get married we would collectively have enough points to be Titanium but does Wyndham allow couples to consolidate and achieve a higher level status (e.g., I have 1MM points ...half of which are PIC, and she has about 500k points)?

3. I rent out points periodically, and someone told me that Wyndham can block "renters" from purchasing additional developer inventory? What happens if you are get blocked....is there any way to get additional developer inventory?

4. Does wyndham club select limit the number of contracts you can have one account? If so, how many? What happens if you purchase resale and go over that limit?

5. Is there any rule that says you can't rent points (I was told, like many here, that you could, but I don't know the bylaws)?

6. Has Wyndham blocked peoples accounts for renting points (I saw posts saying they are blocking for "stripping" points from contracts in the past, but does wyndham block accounts for just making tons of regular reservations?)

Thanks in advance for any answers

Anthony

 

[jwalk03]

you don't need to post the same questions in multiple threads to get an answer.

1. No one knows details on privileges for sure yet, but I would say its likely to remain the same for PIC points.

2. I believe you could combine your accounts by adding each others names to the deeds you own.

3. Wyndham wants you to keep buying. They don't much care if you are renting some of your points or not. But why would you want to keep buying from the developer when you could get resale points for SOOO much less?

4. Don't know what the limit is, but i have heard of some people hitting the limit and having multiple accounts as a result.

5. There is technically a rule barring commercial activity, but its really not enforced.

6. Accounts were not blocked due to renting per se, they were blocked due to (what Wyndham deemed) points abuse, i.e. accounts with way way more points then they were entitled to have according to Wyndham.

 

[AnthonyTraveller]

you don't need to post the same questions in multiple threads to get an answer.

1. No one knows details on privileges for sure yet, but I would say its likely to remain the same for PIC points.

2. I believe you could combine your accounts by adding each others names to the deeds you own.

3. Wyndham wants you to keep buying. They don't much care if you are renting some of your points or not. But why would you want to keep buying from the developer when you could get resale points for SOOO much less?

4. Don't know what the limit is, but i have heard of some people hitting the limit and having multiple accounts as a result.

5. There is technically a rule barring commercial activity, but its really not enforced.

6. Accounts were not blocked due to renting per se, they were blocked due to (what Wyndham deemed) points abuse, i.e. accounts with way way more points then they were entitled to have according to Wyndham.

Thanks Ron,

First, sorry for the duplicate post...didn't realize all threads were visible.

The reason to buy from the developer would be to get to Titanium (right now, with my PICs I am just Platinum). It would be a backup in case they don't allow us to consolidate our accounts after marriage.

We did look at resale (places like ebay and redweek) and from what we can tell the lower end maintenance fee properties (e.g., Canterbury and Bali Hai) seem to command a premium (e.g., $12/1000 points seems to be an average of what we are seeing). Although, lately there seems to have been a lot of Bali Hai Deeds that are being unloaded. Not sure why? Any thoughts?

I noticed there was lots of discussion about the "cancel/rebook" program that existed before and the "void" that they use today. Has any one figured out approximately how long or time of day that a reservation that is cancelled is returned back into inventory (e.g., booked the last studio unit from a given resort for a given date, than cancelled it and seen how long it takes to reappear in the inventory)? If not, I'll give it a whirl.

Thanks again and I really enjoyed reading your past posts the most.....(sort of the Yoda of Wyndham).

Enjoy your day in the meantime,

Anthony

 

[HitchHiker71]

Hi Ron, from what I have read you seem really knowledgable about Wyndham.

I am new to this forum, so I wanted to reach out to you and forgive me if I repeat any questions that may have been addressed before.

Really appreciate any help in advance on the following questions:

1. Will PIC points count towards the new Privileges levels? (right now I have 2 3-bedrooms which enables me to reach Platinum status under the current program using PIC points, but I don't know if the new Privileges will be the same)

According to a regional director I met with recently, along with his direct report, this was a hotly debated topic internal to Wyndham as it relates to the Privileges program. Specifically, whether PIC points would continue to "count" toward VIP status levels. For now, the answer is that PIC points will continue to count toward VIP levels, with the considerable understanding that this issue could be re-addressed in the coming months and a different outcome may be considered given the final VIP program rules won't be finalized until late 2020 timeframe.

2. My fiancée owns with Wyndham as well, and once we get married we would collectively have enough points to be Titanium but does Wyndham allow couples to consolidate and achieve a higher level status (e.g., I have 1MM points ...half of which are PIC, and she has about 500k points)?

I would recommend you contact Owner Care and ask this question directly. I do understand that you can put each other's names on your respective deeds for $299 per account (or is it per deed?), and then you can probably request that your two separate accounts be merged into one single account. Again, I would validate with Owner Care to be sure. If you have more than two PICs total between your two accounts, be aware that they will probably only allow two PICs to "count" toward VIP status - if this is the case - pick the two largest PIC contracts obviously.

3. I rent out points periodically, and someone told me that Wyndham can block "renters" from purchasing additional developer inventory? What happens if you are get blocked....is there any way to get additional developer inventory

Commercial use is prohibited according to the legalese. I've heard various stories about accounts being audited that have suspicious behavior, but I also know many others who have rented quite a bit with no issues - mostly to cover their MFs in part or in full. I think as long as the usage pattern shows that you're simply trying to help cover MFs and not run a commercial business, you should be relatively safe.

4. Does wyndham club select limit the number of contracts you can have one account? If so, how many? What happens if you purchase resale and go over that limit?

It's either 30 or 40 contracts per account. Someone will come along with a definitive answer soon.

5. Is there any rule that says you can't rent points (I was told, like many here, that you could, but I don't know the bylaws)?

Reference commercial use clauses addressed previously.

6. Has Wyndham blocked peoples accounts for renting points (I saw posts saying they are blocking for "stripping" points from contracts in the past, but does wyndham block accounts for just making tons of regular reservations?)

Yes, some owners have had their accounts audited and suspended for suspect activities. AFAIK, no one has been able to isolate the exact usage patterns that result in account suspensions. I would say that merely making a number of reservations alone is not enough to have your account suspended, at least as a generalization.

 

[jwalk03]

Thanks Ron,

First, sorry for the duplicate post...didn't realize all threads were visible.

The reason to buy from the developer would be to get to Titanium (right now, with my PICs I am just Platinum). It would be a backup in case they don't allow us to consolidate our accounts after marriage.

We did look at resale (places like ebay and redweek) and from what we can tell the lower end maintenance fee properties (e.g., Canterbury and Bali Hai) seem to command a premium (e.g., $12/1000 points seems to be an average of what we are seeing). Although, lately there seems to have been a lot of Bali Hai Deeds that are being unloaded. Not sure why? Any thoughts?

I noticed there was lots of discussion about the "cancel/rebook" program that existed before and the "void" that they use today. Has any one figured out approximately how long or time of day that a reservation that is cancelled is returned back into inventory (e.g., booked the last studio unit from a given resort for a given date, than cancelled it and seen how long it takes to reappear in the inventory)? If not, I'll give it a whirl.

Thanks again and I really enjoyed reading your past posts the most.....(sort of the Yoda of Wyndham).

Enjoy your day in the meantime,

Anthony

I’m not Ron. You could try private messaging him if you wish to have an offline conversation with him.

 

[HitchHiker71]

So with the other acquisitions made by Wyndham, have they ever offered a conversion from the previous Timeshare Resort (whether it's deed week or Points) to Wyndham Points without needing to purchase new Wyndham Points?

I don't think so, at least not any longer. In the past, it's been my understanding that Wyndham would convert contracts for a flat fee, but I've not heard of anyone doing this since I joined TUG in June 2018. It does always seem to require a developer points purchase nowadays - though I'm happy to be wrong.

 

[ronparise]

You obviously have your facts wrong! The average owner has seen more availability as has been reported here in the Wyndham Forum
1. Ron himself reported he was astonished at how long Mardi Gras reservations were still available
2. It’s been reported how much easier it’s been to get Bike Week & Daytona 500 reservations at Ocean Walk
3. It’s been reported by owners on more availability at Glacier Canyon for summer vacations.
Those are just a few that have been reported.

I’ll say it one more “us owners paid to buy out the mega renters” that probably had huge impact on us the owners seeing the program fee jump again in such a short timeframe.

Can you not understand that us the owners paid the bill NOT Wyndham to fix the abuses of a few??
You should be outraged not praising the abuses, colluding, circumventing the rules by a few owners. I’m sure you’ll come back & state how great the mega renters were for the average small owner

The club did not buy us out. Wyndham did

 

[dgalati]

The club did not buy us out. Wyndham did

Blah blah blah. Who cares who bought Ron out? If the loop hole was there today I would take advantage of it as would many others. No rules were broken. In my opinion just some old fashioned capitalism was taking place.

 

[dgalati]

(BD quote
You obviously have your facts wrong! The average owner has seen more availability as has been reported here in the Wyndham Forum
1. Ron himself reported he was astonished at how long Mardi Gras reservations were still available
2. It’s been reported how much easier it’s been to get Bike Week & Daytona 500 reservations at Ocean Walk
3. It’s been reported by owners on more availability at Glacier Canyon for summer vacations.
Those are just a few that have been reported.

I’ll say it one more “us owners paid to buy out the mega renters” that probably had huge impact on us the owners seeing the program fee jump again in such a short timeframe.

Can you not understand that us the owners paid the bill NOT Wyndham to fix the abuses of a few??
You should be outraged not praising the abuses, colluding, circumventing the rules by a few owners. I’m sure you’ll come back & state how great the mega renters were for the average small owner) End of quote.

If you believe this nonsense I have a bridge to sell to you. When you can exploit any loop hole do so to take advantage of the system. Just like many did with cancel and rebook or PIC week to become VIP. How many scream rescind rescind ? How much does that cost all us owners?