Doing Presentation tomorrow. Any Questions I should ask OR topics to explore?

[Quilter]

We are at Grande Ocean and when the concierge was trying to talk me into going to a presentation I mentioned my website as part of my turning down the offer. This prompted her to say to me that I should go because the DP program had changed and that now Marriott would buy leftover points from owners who didn't use them all when arranging a DP reservation.

I didn't believe her. But I didn't go to he presentation either. So -- if you are going, feel free to ferret out the truth.

Clark, can you elaborate on this?

First, I don't know how the concierge 's response had any relevance to your website. Second, what leftover points are you referring to?

 

[dioxide45]

Will try to remember to post that. Also, in addition to buying points substantially cheaper outside of MVC (Thanks TUG), I am also very interested in seeing how they respond to the fact that points can be rented when needed (still ~50 cents a point?) to avoid all the annual maintenance fees of buying - even at a reduced rate. In 3 or 4 years, we have never needed more points than we have had available so I've not done it, but I understand from TUG that it is fairly easy to accomplish.

I still avoid bringing up the topic of renting points in a sales presentation. I try to keep that benefit low key. The more that renting starts to hit the sales bottom line, the better the chances that it will get taken away or severely diminished.

 

[kds4]

I agree that drawing attention to this aspect of the program is more likely than not counter-productive.

 

[Clark]

Quilter -- the connection the concierge was making to the website is the ability to rent points there. And her response that the DP program had changed so that Marriott would buy the points (I'm talking about "leftover" points that we here on TUG might want to rent to someone) was intended to get me to the presentation so I would see that there is no reason to be renting points.

I don't know if she was confused, or just trying to get me to go to the presentation. In any case, I did not go, and I (still) don't believe her.

 

[Passepartout]

Make sure they point out the rescission instructions in the contract. If you sign it you'll know where to find them quickly.

Jim

 

[jpa2825]

Nothing remarkable. Very low pressure approach.

$13.52 current point quoted
Claim Starwood acquisition will force more rapid acceleration of point values
Claim our JAN 2016 Encore "froze" the point value at $11.52 if we buy today
Encore minimum is 1,500 points. Discount at 2,000 points (usually only discount at 2,500 points but because we are on an Encore he would discount at 2k)
Apply $1500 from Encore would drop per point price to $10.77
Claim that MVC would buy back points at 65% but not a lot of detail
Asked about MVC buying back unused points in any year and he knew nothing about it
Asked about future Starwood hotels into the Pulse setup and he had no information.

No real pressure to buy points. It was the same guy that presented to us in JAN 2016 (not sure if that is by design, but I thought it was a missed opportunity to hear from a different voice).
Encore / Closer guy was very nice. Didn't push them hard. A few options:

4 day / 3 night HHI trip (bonus day if you check in SUN or MON) to be booked (non-Summer) over the next Year+ is a constant among these (with mandatory presentation) ($500 surcharge for 5.24 - 8.13)

$1499 adds cruise to be scheduled within 1 yr of HHI presentation and taken within 1 yr. of scheduling
$1499 adds 100k MRP
$2199 adds cruise & 100k MRP
$1299 adds 1000 MVC points w/ a 2 yr. use window (added after HHI presentation)
$2199 adds 200k MRP
$2299 adds 1000 & 100k MRP (not sure why there is a premium for the MRP in this package)

We took the $1299 option but could transition to others before we book the next trip. (We'll probably go for either Heritage week again OR May 2018 when kids are still in school and after Spring Break to insure fewer people are here.)

Well, it's May 2018 and we are heading to HHI to take advantage of the Encore we purchased in 2017 when we were there during the Heritage Golf Tournament. Lots of new stuff to discuss during my 90 minutes to pass the time since I highly doubt we will be purchasing any points this time either. We are at 2,500 DC points and have never owned weeks. 6-10 yrs. from retirement (fingers crossed), so more points would just = > maintenance fees.

It will be interesting to see what holds up from their last presentations.

Qs I will be asking / listening for:
* - will ask the current "retail" price for DC points. It was $13.52 in APR 2017.
* - will ask about any expansion of Pulse properties. We used the NYC Pulse to good effect in 2017 to see Hamilton with the family, but thought the points values were pretty high. That said, all lodging in NYC is pretty ridiculous.
* - how much of the 1st Encore $ will apply to this purchase? (They told us last time it was not guaranteed, but in some cases they have allowed the $1500 from the 1st Encore to be applied to points purchases.)
* - Certainly expect the $1300 for the 2nd Encore to apply to this purchase.
* - based on answers, how much does that lower the purchase price per point? (In 2017, it lowered from the $11.52 list price we "froze" when we bought 1st Encore to $10.77. If they allow the "frozen" price to remain and another $1300 to be applied, that would put the price at or just above $10/point.
* - If we can get 2,000 points at $10/pt., would that be a deal worth considering? (We don't need and would have trouble using 4,500 pts. per year and the maintenance fees would almost double for us. As such, unless someone on here tells me this is a "screaming good deal that should not be passed up," (which I don't expect to hear), we'll likely pass.)
* - Unlikely to be interested in an Encore this time. We still haven't booked the cruise from Encore #1 and we're getting 1k DC points with a 2 yr. window to use once we do this presentation. We do like the annual trip to HHI and the price is reasonable, but probably a good time to take a break.
* - will ask about the merger of rewards programs but don't expect them to have good or reliable answers. Will write down what they say and report back.

 

[vacationtime1]

You are already in DC, so you can rent points from other DC members if/when you need them without the obligation of ongoing MF's. There are very few benefits to owning more points yourself (as opposed to renting them) until you get to 7000 points and Executive Level. So unless you want to spend $28 - 45K (4000 points on a hybrid package vs. direct purchase) your inclination is the correct one: look, don't buy.

 

[JIMinNC]

You are already in DC, so you can rent points from other DC members if/when you need them without the obligation of ongoing MF's. There are very few benefits to owning more points yourself (as opposed to renting them) until you get to 7000 points and Executive Level. So unless you want to spend $28 - 45K (4000 points on a hybrid package vs. direct purchase) your inclination is the correct one: look, don't buy.

There is one advantage to owning points yourself versus renting. That is the ability to bank and borrow, which is not available for rented points. So, if you are renting points, you have to be very careful not to rent more points than you 100% know you will use that use year. On top of that, I think someone should be very careful about renting points to use close to the end of the use year. If you had to cancel for some reason, those points can't be extended by banking as you can with points you own. For that reason, we will only rent points in smaller increments that we are OK losing if something unexpected happens, or for use very early in the use year. That way, we have as long as possible to find alternative uses (especially if we are renting a larger amount of points).

Having said that, the only way I would ever buy points direct from Marriott would be as part of a resale week/points bundle that averages the cost down into the $7/point to $7.50/point range. Even a straight points deal from Marriott at $10/point can be beaten by buying resale points through a reliable third-party broker. Even after paying Marriott their $3/point activation fee, you should be able to secure resale points with a total cost of $7/point to $8/point max. On a 2000 point purchase, that will save you $4000 to $6000, or more.

 

[JIMinNC]

* - will ask about any expansion of Pulse properties. We used the NYC Pulse to good effect in 2017 to see Hamilton with the family, but thought the points values were pretty high. That said, all lodging in NYC is pretty ridiculous.

In their last earnings conference call, they announced the newest Pulse location would be in the San Francisco Fisherman's Wharf area and would open in early 2019. No specifics yet on exact property that is being renovated/converted or exactly where in the Wharf area it is.

 

[jpa2825]

There is one advantage to owning points yourself versus renting. That is the ability to bank and borrow, which is not available for rented points. So, if you are renting points, you have to be very careful not to rent more points than you 100% know you will use that use year. On top of that, I think someone should be very careful about renting points to use close to the end of the use year. If you had to cancel for some reason, those points can't be extended by banking as you can with points you own. For that reason, we will only rent points in smaller increments that we are OK losing if something unexpected happens, or for use very early in the use year. That way, we have as long as possible to find alternative uses (especially if we are renting a larger amount of points).

Having said that, the only way I would ever buy points direct from Marriott would be as part of a resale week/points bundle that averages the cost down into the $7/point to $7.50/point range. Even a straight points deal from Marriott at $10/point can be beaten by buying resale points through a reliable third-party broker. Even after paying Marriott their $3/point activation fee, you should be able to secure resale points with a total cost of $7/point to $8/point max. On a 2000 point purchase, that will save you $4000 to $6000, or more.

Well, this ended up being a very helpful post as this (resale week / points bundle) is where we ended up. Thanks in advance for indulging me in the length of this post as it will help me work through the details in my mind.

We went through the usual stuff but in more detail than usual. Sales Rep was very enthusiastic and personable. Easy to talk to. No high pressure.

She went through the "you're gonna spend this much on vacations over the next X years so you might as well own it rather than just spend and have nothing to show for it."

She gave the "discounts are big now after the hurricane and before Starwood and ILG get incorporated" argument. "If you're going to buy, now is the time to do it."

I never knew or forgot they moved the MR conversion rate up from 32:1 to 40:1. She highlighted the 120k column of the 5 & 7 night airline miles packages as best value for redeeming MR points.

She claimed that Presidential Level (10k-14.999k DPs) get Lifetime Platinum and that it is tied to the deed and that that status could be passed on just like the points to family members. Since I am almost LT Platinum (to be grandfathered into LT Platinum Premier), they suggested to tie the MVC points to my wife's MR so that she could get LT Platinum separately. Does that make sense? Is it even accurate?

1st offer was to purchase 3k addtional DPs discounted back to $11.86, provide either 200k MR points OR 3k DPs (2 yr. life and no maintenance fees) along with another 3k DPs if finance at 10.99% and use the financing for at least 18 mos. Deduct Encore fees of $1299.

2nd option was no 200k MR or 3k DPs but drop point price to $11.16.

Told them anything at $10 was a non-starter.

They went immediately to the resale week + points packages (very excited about the potential offer they were going to make). They eventually explained / claimed the redemption was just brought back on THU with a minimum 3k DP purchase. Claim was previously you couldn't buy less DPs than the conversion value of the week but this was just "waived."

First offer was a Shadow Ridge Platinum lockoff week that has a DP value of 3075 DP and MFs of $1608 at a price of $10,700. Along with the 3k DPs the purchase price worked out to $7.40/pt. With our current 2500, that would have put us at 8575 DPs.

Not wanting to land in the middle of the 7k-9.999k level, we asked about a resale week that might get us just into the 10k-14.999k level with those benefits. They identified a Ocean Pointe Platinum lockoff week with a DP value of 4325 and MFs of $1649 at a price of $15,100. To get to 10k, they had to up the DP purchase to 3250 (2500 + 3250 + 4325) = 10,075. This brought us in at $6.91/pt.

After lots of searching to try to find better resale week matches (combination of price/pt. and MFs) at both the 7k and 10k levels, we decided to go ahead with the deal at $6.91/pt. We're thinking of trying to do a BIG event in DEC 2018 or MAR 2019 with our kids before they both finish their education and get out into the "real world" where, presumably, schedules will be tougher to align. As such, we decided to go ahead and take the 3250 DPs in 2018 year (our year starts AUG 1, so we had the choice of pushing them off or taking them in now).

 

[bazzap]

Well, this ended up being a very helpful post as this (resale week / points bundle) is where we ended up. Thanks in advance for indulging me in the length of this post as it will help me work through the details in my mind.

We went through the usual stuff but in more detail than usual. Sales Rep was very enthusiastic and personable. Easy to talk to. No high pressure.

She went through the "you're gonna spend this much on vacations over the next X years so you might as well own it rather than just spend and have nothing to show for it."

She gave the "discounts are big now after the hurricane and before Starwood and ILG get incorporated" argument. "If you're going to buy, now is the time to do it."

I never knew or forgot they moved the MR conversion rate up from 32:1 to 40:1. She highlighted the 120k column of the 5 & 7 night airline miles packages as best value for redeeming MR points.

She claimed that Presidential Level (10k-14.999k DPs) get Lifetime Platinum and that it is tied to the deed and that that status could be passed on just like the points to family members. Since I am almost LT Platinum (to be grandfathered into LT Platinum Premier), they suggested to tie the MVC points to my wife's MR so that she could get LT Platinum separately. Does that make sense? Is it even accurate?

1st offer was to purchase 3k addtional DPs discounted back to $11.86, provide either 200k MR points OR 3k DPs (2 yr. life and no maintenance fees) along with another 3k DPs if finance at 10.99% and use the financing for at least 18 mos. Deduct Encore fees of $1299.

2nd option was no 200k MR or 3k DPs but drop point price to $11.16.

Told them anything at $10 was a non-starter.

They went immediately to the resale week + points packages (very excited about the potential offer they were going to make). They eventually explained / claimed the redemption was just brought back on THU with a minimum 3k DP purchase. Claim was previously you couldn't buy less DPs than the conversion value of the week but this was just "waived."

First offer was a Shadow Ridge Platinum lockoff week that has a DP value of 3075 DP and MFs of $1608 at a price of $10,700. Along with the 3k DPs the purchase price worked out to $7.40/pt. With our current 2500, that would have put us at 8575 DPs.

Not wanting to land in the middle of the 7k-9.999k level, we asked about a resale week that might get us just into the 10k-14.999k level with those benefits. They identified a Ocean Pointe Platinum lockoff week with a DP value of 4325 and MFs of $1649 at a price of $15,100. To get to 10k, they had to up the DP purchase to 3250 (2500 + 3250 + 4325) = 10,075. This brought us in at $6.91/pt.

After lots of searching to try to find better resale week matches (combination of price/pt. and MFs) at both the 7k and 10k levels, we decided to go ahead with the deal at $6.91/pt. We're thinking of trying to do a BIG event in DEC 2018 or MAR 2019 with our kids before they both finish their education and get out into the "real world" where, presumably, schedules will be tougher to align. As such, we decided to go ahead and take the 3250 DPs in 2018 year (our year starts AUG 1, so we had the choice of pushing them off or taking them in now).

I can answer one of your questions.
I am LT Platinum (to be grandfathered into LT Platinum Premier), so I have already tied the MVC points to my wife's MR so that she get Platinum separately (not true LT, but for as long as the required Owner level status is retained).