DVC to affiliate with RCI! [MERGED]

[tombo]

I'm not an RCI expert, but I believe RCI in general also has a policy where they don't let you see some lessor resorts if you own a good resort, but perhaps that doesn't apply to you.


First, it's not the DVC Members that make the rules, so to hate the DVC Members doesn't make any sense.

Getting past that silliness, there is nothing wrong with buying an upscale timeshare and expecting similar in return... That is, unless you're some sort of Socialist.


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...
My opinion is that you are not well versed in Walt Disney World.


I'm starting to get the feeling this whole "rent/renter" thing is suppose to be some sort of derogatory comment about DVC Members???

Please read my earlier post comparing a RTU ts and an ownership ts.
I honestly feel bad for the "owners" who got stuck with that thing FOREVER!

Nice non too subtle dig saying I can see lessor resorts implying I don't own good resorts. You are big on getting facts straight so get yours straight. Yes you can see resorts of less value and sometimes resorts of greater value in RCI. I have traded Hospitality resorts for Gold Crown resorts, and I have traded Gold Crown for Hospitality resorts. I have also traded studios for 2 bed rooms and I have traded 2 bed rooms for one bed rooms. That is my option to trade up or down based on availability.

DVC members don't make the rules, but they throw them out like the Queen did when she said "let them eat cake". She was beheaded as best I remember. DVC doesn't come on TUG making these statements of superiority, they are made by DVC renters, thus the disdain by non DVC owners.

I have no problem with buying an upscale resort and only trading for a like resort. However being told that I couldn't trade for a particular resort I want to trade for based on DVC's impression of the resort is to much big brother for my liking. If a DVC renter wants to trade for a converted motel in Myrtle Beach, that should be their option. The DVC member has paid for the right to trade, use, or rent their points for x number of years so it should not be any of DVC's business what the member does with it.

Once again you like everyone to be correct, you need to try to do so yourself. I have more experience with WDW than most. I went to WDW the first year it opened (I was a freshman in high school), and I went every year following for 6 consecutive years. I have stayed in the Contemporary resort and at the Polynesian resort long before there was a DVC. Yes I hopped on the monorail every day and went to the park without ever getting in the car. I remember the coupon books that had A, B,C,D, and E tickets you got to ride with. You had to hand the coupon to the attendant to ride the ride, and rides weren't unlimited. I always ran out of E tickets too early and I always came home with some of the crappy tickets. I quit going when I got old enough to tell my parents that it was boring to me and my younger brother. Then I did my 5 or 6 years of required Disney trips with my own children until they got bored with Disney too.

I will never go back to WDW unless it is to take grandkids one day. My family loves Busch Gardens and Sea World. We like Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios.We like 6 Flags and other theme parks with thrill rides, however there is not a ride Disney has that is exciting to us except for Tower of Terror. My kids loved Disney when they were small, but they stopped enjoying it during their teenage years. I stopped enjoying it years ago in my teenage years too, thus I have no desire to ever stay on Disney property.

To each his own but it isn't a "Small world after all". If you think outside the rodent box and vacation at places other than Orlando, you will see that it is a really big world after all.

 

[Carl D]

Nah........

 

[tombo]

,


Yikes... You make this sound like it's a negative. In reality, the vast majority think of this as a major plus. Sometime I think people go on this "renter rant" because they are envious we will not have to saddle our heirs with a piece of junk, broken down resort loaded with fees and special assessments.
Yes, I think that's a very large plus.

I do think renting is a negative as opposed to owning a deeded week.

You assume that DVC will be valuable and maintained well for every year of your lease, but you assume that in the same time frame all owned resorts will become pieces of junk, broken down, and loaded with assessments.What an arrogant crock. Both resorts will be aging equally. Both owned and rented resorts will do the needed maintenance and upkeep.

But let's continue with your theory. Apparently the last year before your lease ends, Disney will let the resort go to pieces. Your big advantage is that at the end when the resort is old and worth nothing, your lease will end and you can walk away. If they do maintain your resort in top notch status each and every year, you or your kids will be walking away from a world class resort with nothing when your lease ends. If our deeded resorts are maintained well (like you assume DVC will be), our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will enjoy the resort in perpetuity.

Do you suppose that near the end of the majority of the leases that DVC might assess and renovate to make the properties more attractive because they are going to be up for rent again? Sales will shift into high gear and renters (DVC members) will pay to have the resorts ready to show to the new group of potential renters. DVC has huge incentives to have the resorts in tip top shape when large numbers of their leases are ending. Renters will potentially pay large assessments with only a few years to enjoy the renovations they paid for. At least as an owner if I pay an assessment I can continue to enjoy the updated resort as long as I want, not as long as the lease says I can.

The closer the lease comes to the end, the less it will be worth resale. Would you or anyone actually pay the same price for a lease with 5 years left on it as you would pay for a 30 year lease? If you die with only a few years left on your lease, you have sentenced your kids to paying MF's until the lease is up whether they want to or not because they will never be able to sell it.

These are some of the many reasons I feel that a lease property is not as good as a deeded property. But heck if you like leases better, make sure to never buy your home. When you die you would hate to leave that rundown decades old home as a burden to your children. Simply sign a 30 year lease on your residence and you will have what you love so much, a place you pay to maintain that you will never own. Leases are available on many things but I personally like to own what I buy whether it is a timeshare, a car, or my home.

 

[annenp]

No matter what the change I would not be affected as I would never use my DVC to exchange outside the system -- not cost effective. We use or rent. If DVC switches away from II completely, then I would feel bad for members who do want to use II. I still don't think it is likely. Things may have been different back 10 or 20 years ago for II, but now II has the market for the higher end hotel resort groups, so I just can't see DVC disaffiliating itself from II unless there is a move among the other high end hotel timeshare groups (to RCI as well). I suspect DVC plans to either change the exchanging rules further or change the World Collection further (i.e., drop some existing II resorts and add some RCI resorts) and that may warrant the language Denise pointed out. We'll see.

DVC is nice, no question, RCI does have Hilton Vacation Club which is as nice as the Marriott and Hyatt - especially in the Florida west coast area.

 

[joestein]

.

Regardless of what you believe about ROFR, what truly keeps the prices of DVC high is the unique distinction of having adjoining Disney accommodations.


You get what you pay for.

Carl,

I have to disagree with you concerning the ROFR. While I think that DVC would enjoy a higher resale value than some other timeshares without a ROFR, I don't think that resales would be nearly as high. I think you see points at OKW in the 40s or 30s without ROFR. Even at the other resorts, points would be in the 50s or 60s.

Joe

 

[icydog]

Carl,

I have to disagree with you concerning the ROFR. While I think that DVC would enjoy a higher resale value than some other timeshares without a ROFR, I don't think that resales would be nearly as high. I think you see points at OKW in the 40s or 30s without ROFR. Even at the other resorts, points would be in the 50s or 60s.

Joe

I'll take all the Beach Club Villa points you can give me for anything under $80 a point. I can turn them around in rentals in a minute. You are forgetting the rental market for DVC.

 

[icydog]

Carl D, you are never going to convince these folks that DVC is a unique timeshare. All they see is leases and their version of renters. I can tell you that the quality of vacation we get using our DVC points does not compare with any of the other timeshares I own--- and I own some pretty good ones. Some are very lovely and we really enjoy ourselves while we are using them, but none, not one, can compare with the all around vacation package and value you get from being a DVC owner.
When was the last Marriott, Four Seasons, Hyatt, Hilton, Wyndham, Starwood, Westin etc, Member Cruise. Also don't forget the freebies we get as perks. And the Christmas party I just attended for free with refreshments, prizes and two free Christmas ornaments to take home with us. DVC is like family. I'm glad I'm a member.

 

[timeos2]

The magic may fade

Carl D, you are never going to convince these folks that DVC is a unique timeshare. All they see is leases and their version of renters. I can tell you that the quality of vacation we get using our DVC points does not compare with any of the other timeshares I own--- and I own some pretty good ones. Some are very lovely and we really enjoy ourselves while we are using them, but none, not one, can compare with the all around vacation package and value you get from being a DVC owner.
When was the last Marriott, Four Seasons, Hyatt, Hilton, Wyndham, Starwood, Westin etc, Member Cruise. Also don't forget the freebies we get as perks. And the Christmas party I just attended for free with refreshments, prizes and two free Christmas ornaments to take home with us. DVC is like family. I'm glad I'm a member.

As a former DVC owner we know all about the "magic" of the DVC resorts. Unfortunately, for us, it ran out. When we first got in we loved anything Disney but still found things like the parking arrangements frustrating, things like the "room delivery" worthless (we don't want to buy that many trinkets) and the food too costly for what you got on site. In DVC we didn't like the heavy handed management (back then it was a change from RCI to II - the very reverse of what triggered this thread but equally without "owner" input) When the free passes tied to the DVC units ran out we found far more to dislike about DVC than we enjoyed. Plus all of us found we preferred Universal, passes were (are) much cheaper there, so the DVC was sold (at a profit - that at least was good). So the "magic" means nothing to us. The DVC units aren't as nice or as big (dollar for dollar) as many we can stay at outside and the surroundings, if we care to partake, are available to us without being DVC owners. Once you realize its all great marketing machine the magic fades. We now have no desire to do anything Disney. Never thought I'd say that 20 years ago but things do change.

I'm almost sure we'll have at least some interest again when the grand kid(s) come along - who wouldn't want to see that wide eyed wonder of the first few visits by a kid? It was a whole new place watching my daughter enjoy her first time in the Magic Kingdom years ago. We even enjoyed Mickey's House watching her. But we sure don't have to stay on site to enjoy that. But today she wants season passes to Universal - The Mummy and the roller coasters (Hulk, Dueling Dragons) there are her favorite rides. She has zero interest in any Disney park ("too boring"). For now avoiding Disney is our happiest time in Orlando or California. No crowds, no money spent - its a perfect solution.

 

[calgarygary]

Carl D, you are never going to convince these folks that DVC is a unique timeshare. All they see is leases and their version of renters. I can tell you that the quality of vacation we get using our DVC points does not compare with any of the other timeshares I own--- and I own some pretty good ones. Some are very lovely and we really enjoy ourselves while we are using them, but none, not one, can compare with the all around vacation package and value you get from being a DVC owner.
When was the last Marriott, Four Seasons, Hyatt, Hilton, Wyndham, Starwood, Westin etc, Member Cruise. Also don't forget the freebies we get as perks. And the Christmas party I just attended for free with refreshments, prizes and two free Christmas ornaments to take home with us. DVC is like family. I'm glad I'm a member.

It would take a ton of Christmas ornaments and several "wild" parties to make up for the difference in cost that you paid for your DVC & those folks who bought into Starwood, Marriott, Hilton, etc. on the resale market. Nice perks but you pay dearly for them - not even close to free.

 

[Amy]

Originally Posted by tombo
DVC owners seem to feel that what they have is gold, what II has is Gold, and what we own and trade for in RCI is crap. If just a couple of DVC owners made positive statements about RCI (and the RCI resorts we own and trade for) it might not appear to be such a slap in the face. After reading the posts from DVC and non DVC posters, it seems that we (RCI members) own and vacation in unacceptable accomodations. Until DVC joined RCI, I mistakenly thought I vacationed in great resorts.

I agree, and I feel really bad about this message repeated over and over by some DVC owners on TUG and the DIS boards in recent days. There has been a tone of snobbery way beyond what I had expected in these discussions about RCI, with some comments downright rude to RCI resort owners in general. But the sweeping overstatement works the other way too -- not all DVC owners believe what they have is gold or that all RCI resorts are unacceptable. I don't, and I hope/believe there are others like me but they just don't bother to join these discussions.

On another note, I do have to ask this: Why do threads on TUG about DVC -- no matter the topic in the original post -- always end up being a huge debate about the pros and cons of DVC, whether it is "worth it" from eyes of DVC fans and critics, etc.? This has been the case for as long as I remember, and I started reading/posting on TUG BBS about eight years ago. It is one thing to state a factual criticism and move on; it is another to post repeatedly over and over, saying the same things, to convince DVC owners that they are wrong or foolish. Clearly DVC owners find value in the ownership to make the higher ownership costs worthwhile, even if the the ownership is a long term RTU, the furnishings are not as luxurious than those in some other timeshares or the units of most resorts are not as large as many off-site timeshares. We have owned HGVC (several), Marriott (several), and other timeshares over the years. When we downsized we sold off all our Marriotts (partly because of the outrageous annual m/f increases -- way higher than what we've experience on the DVC side) and HGVCs, kept our best no-brand RCI trader, and increased our DVC holdings. Those who don't find the other stuff DVC offers to be worth the price don't own DVC, and those who do value the extras do. There isn't a right or wrong here -- just different preferences -- yet each time posts in these threads start to sound like challenges about who is right and wrong on the value of DVC. Is this truly necessary?

 

[AwayWeGo]

Don't Take It Seriously.

Is this truly necessary?

Not 1 bit necessary -- just fun.

Plus talk is cheap. (Even BBS talk.)

Not only that, actions speak louder than words.

Never-ending discussions along the lines of My Dog's Better Than Your Dog have been going on a long time.

Who knew the same goes for timeshares ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[JudyS]

DVC gives you a list of resorts you are allowed to trade in to? That is another reason I would never be a DVC renter. I would be mad if I was limited from trading for any resort I wanted that other II or RCI members could access. To have the arrogance as a company (or renter )to say that you hand pick the resorts that are worthy of DVC is a joke. You said it might sound elitist, and that lessor resorts aren't available to trade? Arrogance is a better description than elitist. Those type of statements are why so many non DVC owners resent DVC renters.....

Both II and RCI have quality filters to some extent, and of course SFX has strict quality rules. Most exchange companies will not let owners trade for something that is too far below the quality level of the resort that they deposited, because owners complain if they don't receive a resort of comparable quality. Disney just makes their quality filter explicit, which I think is a good thing. (There are lots of threads on the exchanging board where Tuggers try to puzzle out whether a quality filter, in either RCI or II, is keeping them from getting the trades they want.)

I also think DVC is not the resort system that has the strictest quality filter -- they would be either the Four Seasons, or Franz Klammer Lodge. I'd guess that some RCI resorts (Hilton, maybe) would be pretty strict about downwards trades, too.

As for the Disney "Magic", I've stayed both onsite and off-site. I have enjoyed both types of stays, and some of the non-DVC resorts in the Orlando area are lovely, but I find being onsite at the DVC to be worth a sizable premium.

I think RCI has some nice resorts, but the average level of quality is lower than in II. However, what really bugs me about RCI is the poor customer service and high fees, not the varying quality of resorts. I also agree that you can't tell much about a person's status by the resorts they own. I own DVC, and I was supposed to be staying at the Four Seasons Aviara today (I canceled due to illness), but I also own some real dumps! So, does that make me high-class or low-class? (Ooops -- come to think of it, I own only one high-end resort, but lots of dumpy ones!!! If you can judge a person by the quality of their timeshares, then I'm in trouble! :hysterical: )

Like Amy, I don't understand why some Tug members feel a need to keep lecturing DVC members over and over on how we are wasting our money by staying at Disney. Different strokes for different folks! I can't imagine paying the amount that some people pay to fly first class instead of coach, but if I had longer legs (and more money), maybe I'd feel differently!

 

[bnoble]

Most people in F on NW didn't pay for the tickets, except by logging too many miles with the airline.

 

[JudyS]

Most people in F on NW didn't pay for the tickets, except by logging too many miles with the airline.

True, but some did, and some others put a TON of time into getting those upgrades. A lot of Flyertalkers are just obsessed with getting into that front cabin.

(For those who don't know, Flyertalk is like TUG for frequent flyers -- only more intense!)

 

[icydog]

As a former DVC owner we know all about the "magic" of the DVC resorts. Unfortunately, for us, it ran out. When we first got in we loved anything Disney but still found things like the parking arrangements frustrating, things like the "room delivery" worthless (we don't want to buy that many trinkets) and the food too costly for what you got on site. In DVC we didn't like the heavy handed management (back then it was a change from RCI to II - the very reverse of what triggered this thread but equally without "owner" input) When the free passes tied to the DVC units ran out we found far more to dislike about DVC than we enjoyed. Plus all of us found we preferred Universal, passes were (are) much cheaper there, so the DVC was sold (at a profit - that at least was good). So the "magic" means nothing to us. The DVC units aren't as nice or as big (dollar for dollar) as many we can stay at outside and the surroundings, if we care to partake, are available to us without being DVC owners. Once you realize its all great marketing machine the magic fades. We now have no desire to do anything Disney. Never thought I'd say that 20 years ago but things do change.

I'm almost sure we'll have at least some interest again when the grand kid(s) come along - who wouldn't want to see that wide eyed wonder of the first few visits by a kid? It was a whole new place watching my daughter enjoy her first time in the Magic Kingdom years ago. We even enjoyed Mickey's House watching her. But we sure don't have to stay on site to enjoy that. But today she wants season passes to Universal - The Mummy and the roller coasters (Hulk, Dueling Dragons) there are her favorite rides. She has zero interest in any Disney park ("too boring"). For now avoiding Disney is our happiest time in Orlando or California. No crowds, no money spent - its a perfect solution.

John, this is one of the only posts of yours about DVC that wasn't a slam against DVC. You made your argument well and you stated why DVC doesn't work for you, and your family, any longer. You never denigrated my interest in all things Mouse-worthy, and for that, I thank you.

 

[icydog]

Both II and RCI have quality filters to some extent, and of course SFX has strict quality rules. Most exchange companies will not let owners trade for something that is too far below the quality level of the resort that they deposited, because owners complain if they don't receive a resort of comparable quality. Disney just makes their quality filter explicit, which I think is a good thing. (There are lots of threads on the exchanging board where Tuggers try to puzzle out whether a quality filter, in either RCI or II, is keeping them from getting the trades they want.)

I also think DVC is not the resort system that has the strictest quality filter -- they would be either the Four Seasons, or Franz Klammer Lodge. I'd guess that some RCI resorts (Hilton, maybe) would be pretty strict about downwards trades, too.

As for the Disney "Magic", I've stayed both onsite and off-site. I have enjoyed both types of stays, and some of the non-DVC resorts in the Orlando area are lovely, but I find being onsite at the DVC to be worth a sizable premium.

I think RCI has some nice resorts, but the average level of quality is lower than in II. However, what really bugs me about RCI is the poor customer service and high fees, not the varying quality of resorts. I also agree that you can't tell much about a person's status by the resorts they own. I own DVC, and I was supposed to be staying at the Four Seasons Aviara today (I canceled due to illness), but I also own some real dumps! So, does that make me high-class or low-class? (Ooops -- come to think of it, I own only one high-end resort, but lots of dumpy ones!!! If you can judge a person by the quality of their timeshares, then I'm in trouble! :hysterical: )

Like Amy, I don't understand why some Tug members feel a need to keep lecturing DVC members over and over on how we are wasting our money by staying at Disney. Different strokes for different folks! I can't imagine paying the amount that some people pay to fly first class instead of coach, but if I had longer legs (and more money), maybe I'd feel differently!

Judy, I agree with almost everything you said. I can't understand why a post about DVC and RCI has denigrated to I love DVC vs. I hate DVC
again.

I too have many other timeshares. I have some dog traders in RCI and a couple of good traders as well. I have excellent II traders. I loved being able to swap my II traders for DVC. I've done it three times now, with one more in the works for the Boardwalk Villas in February. I'll miss those trades. Perhaps that was why I was so mad in the first place. I'll never get those trades again. None of my RCI weeks will be good enough to trade with DVC and I don't have an RCI points account. So maybe in the initial stages it was sour grapes that made me so angry.

The fact is, I will never, ever, trade out of DVC. The points are too valuable. If I want to go somewhere other than DVC I will continue to rent my points to cover the costs of the other vacation. But that's my modus operandi and not anyone else's.

I have to agree with your assessment of RCI and II resorts. We have stayed in some glorious RCI resorts, the houses at Summer Bay comes to mind, but none compare to DVC's on site presence. But then again, none of the II resorts can compare to the onsite experience either. We loved the Vistana Villages and HGVC near Sea World plus all the Orlando Marriotts but none compare to DVC. At least for us. When we are off site we rarely go into the parks, we are season pass owners, and we make use of the facilities at the resort almost exclusively. Even when we are staying at a DVC property we don't go into the parks much unless we have dinner reservations or if we have company.

I am going to miss the association with II. Will I die from the new arrangement with RCI? No I won't, but I won't be going to Disney World as much as we do now. We exchanged in three times this year already. We have one more exchange to go plus I am using our Animal Kingdom Villa points for a 6 night stay in May with family. Using my points alone will be a big loss for me. I usually rent my points out and go to WDW on exchanges. Now I'll be forced to choose. This has been a soul searching experience for me. Difficult in the pocketbook-- and the psyche.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Even Though A Slam Is Well Deserved . . .

John, this is one of the only posts of yours about DVC that wasn't a slam against DVC.

. . . for that $95 nuisance fee DVC charges to exchange guests that owners & renters don't pay. Sheesh.

Do you suppose RCI will let'm get away with that once DVC completes the switch from I-I ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[bnoble]

Do you suppose RCI will let'm get away with that once DVC completes the switch from I-I ?

Yes. They let Manhattan Club do it. I'll eat my mouse ears if DVC doesn't keep the nuisance fee in RCI.

I loved being able to swap my II traders for DVC. ... The fact is, I will never, ever, trade out of DVC.

This is one of the few times I've seen someone come out and say what I've suspected all along. My sense has been DVC Members who only think about exchanging out are a little disappointed, but not upset, because a well-informed DVC Member would rarely trade out. Most of them would be better off renting their points, and using the proceeds to rent the vacation lodging of their choosing.

My sense has been that most of the people who were really upset were those who had become accustomed to using their el-cheapo II weeks (and the ACs they generate) to get DVC lodging for dimes on the dollar. Some of these people were Members stretching their points. Others were folks like me who would never spend the kind of money it takes to own there, but enjoy staying there nevertheless.

For the average DVC Member, this is practically a non-event. For those who exchange in, Member or not, well---this is why conventional wisdom is never buy to trade, because the trading game is always changing.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Why The Slam Is So Well Deserved.

They let Manhattan Club do it. I'll eat my mouse ears if DVC doesn't keep the nuisance fee in RCI.

It's not just the money -- $95, which is nothing to sneeze at -- but it's mainly the crass classlessness of treating exchange guests at 2nd class citz.

That's a move many would consider typical of (say) WestGate, but way out of character for a class upscale enterprise.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[bnoble]

Like I said, RCI allows Manhattan Club to do it---only RCI inbounds are charged the hospitality fee. Not guests of owners. Not those coming in via SFX. RCI only.

I get the "exchange ought to be an exchange" argument and agree with it in principle. But, at the end of the day, my principles don't rule---the developers' and exchange companies' rules rule. So, I'm a pragmatist: what's it cost me to stay there, and am I willing to pay it? So far, the answer to the first question is <mumble>, and the answer to the second question is "yes".

Others may choose to eliminate from exchange consideration those resorts that charge such exchange-only nuisance fees out of a stronger adherence to their inner Jiminy Cricket. They are better (wo)men than I.

 

[James1975NY]

Vacation Ownership is for fun and enjoying vacations with family, loved ones and friends alike. Both exchange companies will provide a wealth of vacation options and will require the owner to be proactive with planning and understanding the resorts to choose from when executing an exchange.

I have been doing resales for a while now and after working directly for a developer, I cannot believe the prices that are available to buyers. In any case, my sister purchase a DVC timeshare direct from them and I have no doubt they will enjoy it for years to come (my sisters and I grew up on it too!).

Now knowing what she could have purchased on the resale market pricewise, I do not dare tell her as I feel I would devalue what she loves and that is not fair. The bottom line is that if you are going to use it, maximize it and enjoy the vacations you go on, it is worth it.

Change typically creates some concern and frustration especially when you do not have a say in the matter.

Hang in there and enjoy your vacations!

 

[littlestar]

The only way I would have traded my DVC points in II would have been if we were trying for a large group trip to say Hawaii and needed another Marriott or Westin week. I would be very picky about trading those DVC points because I know what they can be rented for.

I was really surprised that DVC didn't dual affiliate with both exchange companies to tell you the truth. I had traded into DVC through Interval, but my Marriott stays in Orlando outnumbered my DVC trades more than 2 to 1. Now, if Marriott left II, this would be one sad, sad girl.

 

[timeos2]

Ancient history but important none the less

Like I said, RCI allows Manhattan Club to do it---only RCI inbounds are charged the hospitality fee. Not guests of owners. Not those coming in via SFX. RCI only.

I get the "exchange ought to be an exchange" argument and agree with it in principle. But, at the end of the day, my principles don't rule---the developers' and exchange companies' rules rule. So, I'm a pragmatist: what's it cost me to stay there, and am I willing to pay it? So far, the answer to the first question is <mumble>, and the answer to the second question is "yes".

Others may choose to eliminate from exchange consideration those resorts that charge such exchange-only nuisance fees out of a stronger adherence to their inner Jiminy Cricket. They are better (wo)men than I.

You've probably seen it before but I'll repaeat that at least part of the original split between RCI & DVC was over that very fee. RCI, as was writing in their contracts with resorts at the time, prohibited it. So did II. But II capitulated to DVC, most likely to get them to switch, and OK'd it with a modified agreement. Nice way to protect members, huh?

But as you point out since then RCI also gave in to MC and allowed them to tack on an unfair fee to exchange guests only. So the dike broke nearly 10 years later. Now we just have to get every RCI/II resort that sees an incoming DVC or MC Club owner to tack on $95 as "exchange guest services". THEN you'll hear howling. Especially when the owners realize THEY don't get the fee - DVC/MC pockets it!

And of course rate both systems poorly on your rating cards for any tiny thing you may find, as with that extra fee you should be getting 110% perfection on every trip. I see a whole lot of 1's / dissatisfied on those rating cards. And they deserve it.

 

[Carl D]

You've probably seen it before but I'll repaeat that at least part of the original split between RCI & DVC was over that very fee.

I don't know if this is right or wrong, but it has been disputed by reputable people here on TUG... I believe it was Dean.
Whoever it was did have a factual basis for their view.

 

[Carl D]

And of course rate both systems poorly on your rating cards for any tiny thing you may find, as with that extra fee you should be getting 110% perfection on every trip. I see a whole lot of 1's / dissatisfied on those rating cards. And they deserve it.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
First, you have a conflict of interest seeing as though you are HOA President of a locally competing resort.

Second, should I go around the web advocating we demand "110% perfection" from CP, otherwise our goal should be to have their Silver status removed??

Slimy.. at best.