DVC vs Wyndham and Hilton for Floridians

[Dean]

Lol ok. You are, as always, right I’m sure.

It’s 50 years. The point is it’s not 20-30 years. It’s essentially a “lifetime,” given that most people aren’t purchasing until well into adulthood.

This is another “issue” people have with DVC that IMO is a complete non issue. People want to pass timeshares down to their kids only to realize later their kids may not want them. The useful lifespan of a TS is 30-40 years max for most people. DVC has a built in exit strategy which is realistically nothing but a positive.

I’m not a DVC Pollyanna by any means. I can see both the pros and the cons of it. The thing that surprises me is how many people focus on it being “expensive” when it’s the only timeshare currently that regularly appreciates in value. Since right now with DVC you can reasonably expect to sell your ownership at enough of a profit that all of your ownership expenses are covered, DVC is quite obviously beating even free timeshares as a value proposition.

I'd agree that's likely the useful life for the buyer but it will eventually affect the value even without other market forces and it will truly be zero at some point, likely some point well before the end of the ROFR. But is is less than 30 years for 6 of the resorts. Personally I don't think the RTU is a big deal if all else makes sense but I don't see it as a positive. I feel that assuming one can sell in a number of years and get their money back is a bit optimistic. It might or might not be so, it depends on other factors beyond our control. 5 yeas maybe but over 10-15 years there's a lot that can happen. I know some are convinced they'll offer extensions but IMO even if they do, the chance that it'll make financial sense to extend is likely to be almost zero.

 

[pekckian1]

We bought DVC to ensure that we have good times and memories at theme parks or Aulani with our families. If we don't stay ourselves, we will rent it for 4X of MF through Redweek or EBay.

 

[sparkspeak]

Lastly, I save 20 percent yearly off DVC maint fees by paying with gift cards purchased at my grocery store using my Blue Amex preferred card. The card gets me 6 percent off. I wait until I get 4X points to get a $1 off gas at Kroger's up to 35 gallons of gas. I'm saving $200 per $1,000 spent.

Help! I don't understand how you figure 20% savings on annual maintenance fees.
I get the 6% Amex, but where does the other 14% come from?

 

[heathpack]

I'd agree that's likely the useful life for the buyer but it will eventually affect the value even without other market forces and it will truly be zero at some point, likely some point well before the end of the ROFR. But is is less than 30 years for 6 of the resorts. Personally I don't think the RTU is a big deal if all else makes sense but I don't see it as a positive. I feel that assuming one can sell in a number of years and get their money back is a bit optimistic. It might or might not be so, it depends on other factors beyond our control. 5 yeas maybe but over 10-15 years there's a lot that can happen. I know some are convinced they'll offer extensions but IMO even if they do, the chance that it'll make financial sense to extend is likely to be almost zero.

Absolutely.

My take on DVC is one of two things typically happen:
1. People buy and use for awhile, 10-15 years, and they sell at a profit
2. People buy and hold to the end of their contract, and get a “lifetime” of use but nothing to sell at the end

Will everyone who sell in senario 1 get all of their monetary outlay back? No, of course not. Will some people? Yes absolutely. Either way, DVC is the only appreciating timeshare out there and to ignore that piece of the puzzle when we’re talking about what’s the best “value” amongst our timeshare ownerships is just ignoring a very major piece.

All timeshare purchases are a gamble- we are betting that prepaying some of our future travel expenses in the form of timeshare ownership will save money in the long run. So I get it that people don’t feel comfortable gambling $50K. I personally would never spend that much on a TS (and didn’t spend that much on my DVC). But, still, rationally, DVC seems insurmountably expensive to people because they look at the initial purchase price and MFs without looking at the unique situation with DVC that is has resale value.

So my point for OP is that Wyndham seems cheaper but it might not be. If I were considering it, I’d educate myself as to which Orlando DVC gave the biggest bang for my buck as far as finding a sweet spot between initial purchase price and anticipated resale price down the road. I’d make some very conservative assumptions but I would not assume resale value to be zero. I’d also really think a lot about the nature of TS ownership and question all the common wisdom. Not throw it out the window, because some of the wisdom is spot on. But some of the wisdom is wrong, or just wrong for an individual’s personal scenario. Then make decisions based on your personal paradigm. Some of us draw different conclusions and act upon them in ways that might not work for others, because our paradigm, preferences, risk-aversion etc varies.

 

[Dean]

Absolutely.

My take on DVC is one of two things typically happen:
1. People buy and use for awhile, 10-15 years, and they sell at a profit
2. People buy and hold to the end of their contract, and get a “lifetime” of use but nothing to sell at the end

Will everyone who sell in senario 1 get all of their monetary outlay back? No, of course not. Will some people? Yes absolutely. Either way, DVC is the only appreciating timeshare out there and to ignore that piece of the puzzle when we’re talking about what’s the best “value” amongst our timeshare ownerships is just ignoring a very major piece.

All timeshare purchases are a gamble- we are betting that prepaying some of our future travel expenses in the form of timeshare ownership will save money in the long run. So I get it that people don’t feel comfortable gambling $50K. I personally would never spend that much on a TS (and didn’t spend that much on my DVC). But, still, rationally, DVC seems insurmountably expensive to people because they look at the initial purchase price and MFs without looking at the unique situation with DVC that is has resale value.

So my point for OP is that Wyndham seems cheaper but it might not be. If I were considering it, I’d educate myself as to which Orlando DVC gave the biggest bang for my buck as far as finding a sweet spot between initial purchase price and anticipated resale price down the road. I’d make some very conservative assumptions but I would not assume resale value to be zero. I’d also really think a lot about the nature of TS ownership and question all the common wisdom. Not throw it out the window, because some of the wisdom is spot on. But some of the wisdom is wrong, or just wrong for an individual’s personal scenario. Then make decisions based on your personal paradigm. Some of us draw different conclusions and act upon them in ways that might not work for others, because our paradigm, preferences, risk-aversion etc varies.

My take is this. DVC is a different animal in that the increased value (real and perceived) is based on emotions and personal preference more so than other timeshares. DVC is more expensive going in and more expensive ongoing than say Marriott or Hilton, probably the best comparisons. When you include the TVM/Opportunity costs from the up front purchase and higher dues, things will have to continue at their current pace just to "break even" and it's dramatically unlikely they will thus I assume one will lose $$$ in owning long term regardless of hold to the end or sell but there may be usage that has value in between which is the reason to buy a timeshare anyway. For non DVC timeshares I normally would consider an average usage volume of a 2 BR once a year as the minimum for the numbers to work. DVC obviously is a little different in that regard but if I'm going to compare, I'm going to assume that volume as the minimum for both. When you look at the up front costs and dues, Bluegreen, Wyndham, Worldmark and the like are probably the cheapest options even with the nickel and dime stuff. Hilton and Marriott are in between and DVC the most expensive. But for someone who's comparison is not other timeshares but cash at Disney, it looks completely different. Plus DVC is a horrible choice as a single option for Disney and non Disney travel, the other options tend to be much better to cover both as a single entity. For many both DVC and something else is a good choice (It is or me) assuming they value the on property options enough to pay more.

 

[bnoble]

Please share your experience with us.

Happy to.

BCV is close to the World Showcase entrance. It's not close to the Magic Kingdom entrance. (It's not even particularly close to the Studios entrance---and yes, I've walked it.) Vice versa for BLT. Nothing is close to everything, and being centrally located can be better for a week's vacation in terms of transit time than being at one end of property or the other.

What's more, the walk from most places in Epcot to the front half of the parking lot is within a minute or two of the walk from that same spot to BCV. (Check google maps if you doubt this.) It takes ten minutes or less to drive between that spot and Bonnet Creek. So, even in the best case, I'm saving maybe 20 minutes by staying at BCV vs. Bonnet. And again, I've done both.

 

[bnoble]

When you include the TVM/Opportunity costs from the up front purchase

Something that almost no one does, to the point that I've given up even trying.

 

[Cyberc]

The contracts with only 24 years left sell for half the cost of the contracts which expire later. So my choice is: pay more now and get a better resale price in 20 years or pay less now and get little to no resale price in 20 years.

I slightly disagree none of the current WDW resort which expires in 24 years sells for half price compared to those that expires later. None wdw resorts are a different animal. Some WDW resorts are actually more expensive than those expiring later on.

 

[Dean]

Something that almost no one does, to the point that I've given up even trying.

No but they should

 

[TravelTime]

-

 

[TravelTime]

Something that almost no one does, to the point that I've given up even trying.

The problem with comparing opportunity costs for a TS is that you would need to do this with everything you own and every spending decision you make. Many times we do not know the opportunity cost until after the fact.

Do folks analyze the opportunity cost every time they make a financial decision? I try NOT to do that because it would lead me to needing ever more meditation classes! LOL

 

[Cyberc]

The problem with comparing opportunity costs for a TS is that you would need to do this with everything you own and every spending decision you make. Many times we do not know the opportunity cost until after the fact.

Do folks analyze the opportunity cost every time they make a financial decision? I try NOT to do that because it would lead me to needing ever more meditation classes! LOL

To me the opportunity cost is not a factor because if I didn’t spend the money buying a timeshare then I would not have invested the money they would either stay in my bank account(0% interest) for a rainy day or I would have used them on another vacation.

 

[Panina]

Cost is irrelevant if you can afford it, really want it and will use it. I chose Key West and Marco Island over DVC because I ultimately wanted them more then DVC.

 

[TravelTime]

I used to buy all my vacations on Expedia so I use that as my metric for comparing.

 

[bnoble]

At the end of the day, the decision of DVC or not-DVC is pretty simple: Do you want to stay in one of the better Disney-owned resorts at least every other year or so for the foreseeable future? If so, buy. If not, don't. If you're not sure, try a vacation both ways and see whether you really like the DVC stay that much more than the non-DVC stay. If so, it doesn't really matter why you liked it---and I've seen as many reasons as there are people who own used to try to justify it to someone else, and vice versa.

 

[SpygirlE]

One thing to keep in mind regarding buying Disney DVC resale is that you don’t get a lot of the perks such as using the RCI exchange or even using your points on a Disney Cruise. If, however, all you want to use your DVC points for are to stay at the Disney resorts, then buying resale is a great option.

 

[Panina]

One thing to keep in mind regarding buying Disney DVC resale is that you don’t get a lot of the perks such as using the RCI exchange or even using your points on a Disney Cruise. If, however, all you want to use your DVC points for are to stay at the Disney resorts, then buying resale is a great option.

So if you want to trade can you get a private rci account to trade?

 

[Dean]

One thing to keep in mind regarding buying Disney DVC resale is that you don’t get a lot of the perks such as using the RCI exchange or even using your points on a Disney Cruise. If, however, all you want to use your DVC points for are to stay at the Disney resorts, then buying resale is a great option.

So if you want to trade can you get a private rci account to trade?

You don't get the discounts, DCL, member events and the like but you do get the RCI, pool hoping and free parking. The ONLY one that has a financially reasonable consideration is the pass discount.

 

[Lisa P]

To me, my time is precious. While I'm walking to my DVC room as the park closes, I'm thinking about the the folks spending 15-20 mins waiting for a shuttle, fighting for spots on the tram or walking to the end of a parking lot, stuck in traffic for another 10-15 minutes, or going thru a separate security gate in the am wasting another 10 minutes. Meanwhile in 5 - 8 minutes I'm at Boardwalk or Beach Club or Bay Lake Tower in my room.... I'll gladly pay the premium to save 90 minutes everyday in transit.

Only true if you are staying at a walk-to-park location and you are only visiting the walk-to park(s) on that stay. Ex., if staying at Boardwalk Villas, you cannot claim this for visits to MK or AK. If staying at AKL, OKW, or SSR, this doesn't apply at all. We have had very mixed "time" results of waiting for a Disney bus or boat. Unless visiting MK, we've found it's usually faster for us to drive our car from most DVC resorts. We do enjoy the boats and monorail but really, most Disney travel between most DVC rooms and most Disney parks is accomplished by bus and it's rarely faster than driving. Due to Wyn Bonnet Creek's location, it takes about the same amount of time to drive to Disney parks (except MK) as it does from Disney properties.

My take on DVC is one of two things typically happen:
1. People buy and use for awhile, 10-15 years, and they sell at a profit
2. People buy and hold to the end of their contract, and get a “lifetime” of use but nothing to sell at the end

Will everyone who sell in senario 1 get all of their monetary outlay back? No, of course not. Will some people? Yes absolutely.

Generally agree, especially regarding retail purchasers in the past, which is where the greatest distinction may be made between DVC buyers and other timeshare buyers, IMO. But before advising a new purchase from Disney, consider how the future may differ from past performance. In the last decade or so, Disney has raised their retail pricing at a faster pace than their competitors. They may have caught up with what the market is willing to bear, to account for onsite benefits. When/If they do, recouping monetary outlay will become more difficult in years ahead, for retail buyers - besides the leasehold expiration date approaching as well. If Disney sales slow due to too-rapid price increases, and the pace of increase slows down, recouping monetary outlay during resale will be tough.

For resale purchasers of many timeshares, not just DVC, it's not that hard to get back initial outlay monies either, IMO. We've recouped our money easily with the buy&sell of DVC points, as well as with the buy&sell of resale Marriott and independent resort weeks. Our resale (prime red, converted) Wyndham points were super-cheap and have very reasonable/low maint fees. After 20 years of low cost vacations at high quality resorts (internal and RCI trades), recouping monetary outlay doesn't even cross our minds. Giving them away or to Ovation would be easy. All of our adult kids have actually expressed interest in them anyway. We certainly shared many exciting family adventures and made many wonderful vacation memories together, even after selling DVC. Sometimes, people forget that there are lots of ways to do this without owning.

I guess it just makes sense to me that Tuggers can say the same about other resale purchases as you've said above about a DVC purchase (if resale, IMO). My "profit" after reselling would actually be from having more invested in our Roths, 403b, 457, and 401k than we would have budgeted to invest, if we had opted to commit $20K-$30K more than our Wyndham cost us, and paid $500-$1,500 more in annual maint fees for the DVC 2BRs our family needed. Over the years, we adjusted payroll deductions according to what we could manage, and we considered our monthly maintenance fees as part of our fixed expenses. It would have been different if our maint fees were higher or if we were saving for a large DVC purchase or paying a DVC loan.

Truthfully, as we plan to take grandkids to Orlando in future years as they get bigger, we certainly have no plans to get rid of our Wyndham points contracts and we would not if we currently had a DVC points contracts either. We expect more of a draw to Orlando again. But if we had a commitment with higher maint fees, it might bother us more as we get closer to retirement. Disney vacations are pretty expensive, not just for the lodging, so lower maint fees are great. It's also really nice for us to have very little sunk cost, where it makes sense to just keep what we have - no regrets about keeping and not selling now.

 

[Dean]

The problem with comparing opportunity costs for a TS is that you would need to do this with everything you own and every spending decision you make. Many times we do not know the opportunity cost until after the fact.

Do folks analyze the opportunity cost every time they make a financial decision? I try NOT to do that because it would lead me to needing ever more meditation classes! LOL

I'd agree on small things but not for a luxury purchase like DVC unless one has enough money not to worry about any costs. It is one factor but it's part of being financially responsible. Same answer for an automobile which can be more of a need than a timeshare.

To me the opportunity cost is not a factor because if I didn’t spend the money buying a timeshare then I would not have invested the money they would either stay in my bank account(0% interest) for a rainy day or I would have used them on another vacation.

If it's resources you have actually earmarked for discretionary spending, I'd agree to a point. Still, I'd see it as part of financially responsibility. I want to be a good steward of the things I've been given to manage.

Cost is irrelevant if you can afford it, really want it and will use it. I chose Key West and Marco Island over DVC because I ultimately wanted them more then DVC.

In addition to the above thoughts, I'd agree only if one has the money to simply throw away and generally they don't buy timeshares. I doubt you actually mean it as many do when they post this thought. Often when people post this thought it means they just want it and don't want to hear anything that causes them to not get it. Ultimately it often means they can't really afford it but think they can make the payments. I see it a lot more often with DVC than I do other timeshares. My definition of being able to afford it is paying cash and my core definition includes no consumer debt.

 

[ljmiii]

I'm asking because I'm considering DVC for its theming for my kids, but that price tag is insane when you compare it to Wyndham!

My three questions for anyone considering buying DVC are:

First, do you plan on visiting WDW at least every other year for at least the next 10 years?
....If not, you are probably better off renting instead of buying.
Second, can you plan at least 7 and ideally 11 months in advance?
....If not, you need to be some combination of flexible in terms of when you can go, willing to stay in any size villa, and willing to stay in any WDW resort.
Third, (and perhaps most important) Do you really prefer staying on property?
....If not, there are far more inexpensive ways to visit WDW.

For us buying DVC has been an incredible boon. We've enjoyed many vacations over the years with our kids and parents. By staying at BCV and BLT we've been able to walk to most parks. By staying on property we've enjoyed 60 day + length of stay fastpasses and 180 day + length of stay dining - essential if you are limited to visiting WDW during school vacations. Our MFs have been a fraction of the price of renting...much less booking direct. We've saved lots of money on tickets, food, and beverages from our DVC discounts. And perhaps best of all our points have appreciated in value over 50% since we bought.

None of which answers the question of whether or not DVC is right for you. But it has been an emotional and financial success story for us.

 

[TravelTime]

I think perhaps we should be more easy going with the comparisons between timeshare companies. There is something for everyone. Also, some people are not so anal about analyzing their purchases down to the penny. So let's not criticize people who are fine with emotional purchases and can afford it. I have made my share of dumb purchases, but always with cash that I did not otherwise need. One time, I was depressed over a break up when I was still single - over 20 years ago - and I bought a brand new BMW. LOL But I put down a huge down payment (about 50%) and could have paid it off anytime. In fact, I did pay it off before the loan ended. Owned it for 10 years until the repairs cost more than the residual value of the car. Then I got a new BMW! But now I have gotten frugal and drive an Acura SUV, also purchased brand new. I think Tuggers would see all my car purchases to be a waste of money but there is a lot of emotional value to me in buying brand new cars. Now we own a lot of timeshares, all paid off with cash. Our MFs are high but a lot less than we used to spend on vacations. We will probably keep Disney even though the family dynamics changed. It will help me relax and be more playful, I hope.

 

[Dean]

I think perhaps we should be more easy going with the comparisons between timeshare companies. There is something for everyone. Also, some people are not so anal about analyzing their purchases down to the penny. So let's not criticize people who are fine with emotional purchases and can afford it. I have made my share of dumb purchases, but always with cash that I did not otherwise need. One time, I was depressed over a break up when I was still single - over 20 years ago - and I bought a brand new BMW. LOL But I put down a huge down payment (about 50%) and could have paid it off anytime. In fact, I did pay it off before the loan ended. Owned it for 10 years until the repairs cost more than the residual value of the car. Then I got a new BMW! But now I have gotten frugal and drive an Acura SUV.

We've all made mistakes but they were just that, mistakes and some worse than others. Personally I'd rather be clear on what's a good purchase vs a bad one looked at on the objective side so as to be clear, all I can add is my opinion. To be unclear is to be unkind IMO. Each person will then have to analyze their personal information and make their own decisions. I don't want paralysis of analysis but I want people to understand that there are good choices and bad choices and there's often a fairly clear division. I realize that financial responsibility and delayed gratification are not popular in todays world, all the more reason to communicate the issues IMO.

 

[djohn06]

Only true if you are staying at a walk-to-park location and you are only visiting the walk-to park(s) on that stay. Ex., if staying at Boardwalk Villas, you cannot claim this for visits to MK or AK. If staying at AKL, OKW, or SSR, this doesn't apply at all. We have had very mixed "time" results of waiting for a Disney bus or boat. Unless visiting MK, we've found it's usually faster for us to drive our car from most DVC resorts. We do enjoy the boats and monorail but really, most Disney travel between most DVC rooms and most Disney parks is accomplished by bus and it's rarely faster than driving. Due to Wyn Bonnet Creek's location, it takes about the same amount of time to drive to Disney parks (except MK) as it does from Disney properties.

Well I park hop, so if I start and end my day at the same MK or Epcot resort that I'm staying all the above is true.

Sometimes it is quicker to drive to MK property. It just depends on how many cars are leaving the lot when you leave at the end of the day. We like to stay for fireworks so it gets really busy upon exiting if I drive to a park.

If you drive from Bonnett creek, the parking fees add up quickly if you don't have a season pass, so be careful. Better off staying at AKL and avoiding all the off site fees.

 

[TravelTime]

Well I park hop, so if I start and end my day at the same MK or Epcot resort that I'm staying all the above is true.

Sometimes it is quicker to drive to MK property. It just depends on how many cars are leaving the lot when you leave at the end of the day. We like to stay for fireworks so it gets really busy upon exiting if I drive to a park.

If you drive from Bonnett creek, the parking fees add up quickly if you don't have a season pass, so be careful. Better off staying at AKL and avoiding all the off site fees.

We park hop and resort hop too! When we visited WDW in August, we stayed at three onsite resorts. Disney makes moving between onsite resorts very easy. We are planning another visit next Spring and will be doing another split stay. We absolutely prefer to not rent a car. Car rentals in Orlando are very expensive, like Hawaii or even more. So for folks who are doing a detailed analysis, you can factor in the car rental savings. I was looking at the parking lot and telling my DH I was so glad we did not need to deal with the parking shuttle, traffic and parking so far away. Plus it is really nice to take a vacation and have everything handled including transportation from the airport, between resorts and to/from the parks. In fact, we found the bus system at AK to be extremely efficient and fast. I liked it better than the monorail.