Feedback please! (bad rental?)

[rickandcindy23]

Can you post a link to where this is mentioned on Redweek.com? I can't seem to find it.

Copied and pasted from Redweek.com, the Vacation Escrow RIPOFF Service:

Vacation Escrow Service
RedWeek.com now offers a secure and convenient third-party handling service to members wishing to make a rental transaction. Using the escrow services of First American Title Insurance Co., an innovator in the vacation ownership industry, RedWeek.com members can transact rental agreements with other members, without security concerns that may be associated with private transactions. The service is available for rentals made at least one week in advance.

Costs (in $USD):
■$100 for rental price of $0 - $1,000
■$150 for rental price of $1,001 - $2,000
■$200 for rental price of $2,001 +
Costs to be split 50/50 by the two parties, unless otherwise negotiated.

Visa, Mastercard, Discover, American Express, or checks are accepted as payment.

Steps:
1.The two members come to an agreement on a rental price and use of First American Title Insurance Co.'s vacation rental escrow service.
2.The owner completes the online Rental Agreement and Escrow Instructions.
3.Renter receives an e-mail from First American Title with a link to the agreement started by the owner. Renter reviews and completes application information and submits to First American Title.
4.First American Title contacts both parties to collect a non-refundable escrow fee from each. The renter also pays 50% of the rental fee as a deposit if more than 60 days remain before check-in, or 100% of the rental fee if there are fewer than 60 days before check-in.
5.60 days prior to start of vacation, renter makes final 50% payment to First American Title, if not paid in full upon opening of escrow.
6.First American Title sends a check to the owner approximately 11 days after the last day of the rental period, provided there are no material disputes filed by the renter.
Complete service terms are included in the Rental Agreement and Escrow Instructions.

Open an Order:
Get started with the online application process now.

If you prefer to use paper forms and mail or fax to First American Title, they are included below.

Agreement and Escrow Instruction: filled out by both parties individually.
Credit Card Authorization: filled out by both parties individually only if paying by credit card.
First American Title Insurance Co.'s Contact Information:

Transfer/Rental Department
Phone: 866-639-9203 (toll-free from U.S. only); 702-792-6863 (outside U.S.)
Fax: 866-325-5708 (toll-free from U.S. only); 702-562-9760 (outside U.S.)
E-mail Transfer Department

Why First American Title?
First American Title Insurance Co.'s National Vacation Ownership Division (NVOD) is part of the First American Corporation, a Fortune 500 Company that has been in existence over 100 years. Our specially trained staff is just one of the many reasons First American Title Insurance Co. is an innovator in the vacation ownership industry. We understand the unique needs of the timeshare/fractional customer.

First American Title Insurance Co. acts as escrow holder and orchestrates obtaining signatures for the Rental Agreement and Escrow Instructions, collecting the deposit and final payment from the Resort Guest, disbursing the payment to the Owner based on the agreement and, when applicable, coordinating the disbursement after RedWeek.com determines results of any complaint. You can have peace of mind knowing that your monies will be held in trust by First American Title Insurance Co.'s National Vacation Ownership Division.

 

[foreverloves]

With all due respect ever hear of caveat emptor "buyer beware"? All the things you said the sellers need to do is what the buyers have to insist on knowing. The seller is not obligated to give any that is not clearly negotiated.

If this was viewed by a court they would determine what is customary and rule in that direction. It is customary that depostis are not refunded if renter cancels at last minute.

If you were an "aware buyer" you would have asked the terms of cancellation and if not to your liking you could have refused. Also you could have taken out travel interest if you were so concerned about refunds.

Problem #1: There weren't any 'terms'. If there were terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Interesting thread, I found on Tug:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15990

Funny part about it is, several people comment on the RENTAL AGREEMENT they use when they rent. Someone mentions (aptly!) that they inform the renter that failure to perform will result in the deposit being retained for 'liquidated damages'.

Which is perfectly okay to say, and if said, leaves the renter without recourse. Same as I used to do when I rented apartments.

It's
Just
Not
That
Difficult.

Seriously. Do all of you naysayers actually operate this way? Honestly? Because you'll get in trouble someday if you do. The various examples of rental agreements that places like Redweek, etc, encourage owners to use INCLUDES this language.

Why?

Is that language not necessary? If everyone just 'knows' or 'assumes' that's where money is headed, why spell it out? Let's just take funds, and when something happens, you just say "Oh well" to them. In fact, let's throw out rental agreements altogether. They aren't necessary. Apparently, owners can do what they like in the absence of an agreement! Hey! Now we're talking!!



I think what is so shocking to me is how people honestly believe; truly truly seem to believe, that it is okay to take money from anyone and not tell them what they will do with it, provide nothing in return (including a correct confirmation!), and then retain it as damages when it was never specified as such.

Why do we need rental agreements that include this language if it's all good and just 'public knowledge' and 'the way it is'?

This owner did several things that threw up red flags. Absense of a rental agreement when I asked for one. Claiming to be 'overseas' and never answering a cell phone - I'm sorry! That's red flag central!! Not answering emails. Being unconfirmed on paypal. Never providing a proper resort confirmation. These are the things that if someone posted that on Tug, we'd all say, "Oh man...something doesn't smell right here."

There may be perfectly logical explanations for these, but they just "sound bad".

Whenever you exchange money for anything, you are told in advance what's going to happen. This is so basic, so fundamental, so easy. I couldn't register for a CLEP exam without clicking the "I understand my $25 is non refundable". You can't rent an apartment without doing that.

There's no "hole" to be "dug" here. Seriously. Courts look at contracts. Email can suffice. There is failure to perform, which you might try to accuse me of. But then there is recourse permitted. You can argue, "Renter failed to perform". But you're stuck with, "What are my options to seek restitution?" To follow some here, the options are what you say they are in the absence of anything written. You can ask for the entire rental amount, you can keep the entire deposit, you can keep some of the deposit - do what you like, cause it's whatever you want it to be.

No.

If your renter fails to perform, you are entitled to recourse per the terms of your agreement. If your contract says you get to keep the entire fee no matter what, you get to do that. If it says you get to keep $200, that's what you get. And if it says nothing...that's what you get to do.

If this owner had told me I was going to lose every dime, I would not be here. I would have known. SHE DIDN'T.

If this owner had given me the chance to TRY and help her find a tenant (I could have asked people I know even!) I would have. SHE DIDN'T.

It's just not that hard.

Really. It's not.

Owners, please give your renters agreements. Please spell out your terms so the renter can agree (or not). Please tell them ahead of time what you plan to do with their money. This situation would have been avoided completely if that had just happened.

 

[ampaholic]

Jennnefer: do you think it can/does damage a landlord to take a property off the market because a renter wants it - and then have that renter back out?

Answer that one simple question - you seem to be claiming "no harm-no foul" - do you truly believe that in this case?

I don 't expect an answer - because really you are claiming "no paper - no foul" which is bogus.

And are you still "misrepresenting the facts" to PayPal?

 

[BocaBum99]

Problem #1: There weren't any 'terms'. If there were terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Interesting thread, I found on Tug:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15990

Funny part about it is, several people comment on the RENTAL AGREEMENT they use when they rent. Someone mentions (aptly!) that they inform the renter that failure to perform will result in the deposit being retained for 'liquidated damages'.

Which is perfectly okay to say, and if said, leaves the renter without recourse. Same as I used to do when I rented apartments.

It's
Just
Not
That
Difficult.

Seriously. Do all of you naysayers actually operate this way? Honestly? Because you'll get in trouble someday if you do. The various examples of rental agreements that places like Redweek, etc, encourage owners to use INCLUDES this language.

Why?

Is that language not necessary? If everyone just 'knows' or 'assumes' that's where money is headed, why spell it out? Let's just take funds, and when something happens, you just say "Oh well" to them. In fact, let's throw out rental agreements altogether. They aren't necessary. Apparently, owners can do what they like in the absence of an agreement! Hey! Now we're talking!!



I think what is so shocking to me is how people honestly believe; truly truly seem to believe, that it is okay to take money from anyone and not tell them what they will do with it, provide nothing in return (including a correct confirmation!), and then retain it as damages when it was never specified as such.

Why do we need rental agreements that include this language if it's all good and just 'public knowledge' and 'the way it is'?

This owner did several things that threw up red flags. Absense of a rental agreement when I asked for one. Claiming to be 'overseas' and never answering a cell phone - I'm sorry! That's red flag central!! Not answering emails. Being unconfirmed on paypal. Never providing a proper resort confirmation. These are the things that if someone posted that on Tug, we'd all say, "Oh man...something doesn't smell right here."

There may be perfectly logical explanations for these, but they just "sound bad".

Whenever you exchange money for anything, you are told in advance what's going to happen. This is so basic, so fundamental, so easy. I couldn't register for a CLEP exam without clicking the "I understand my $25 is non refundable". You can't rent an apartment without doing that.

There's no "hole" to be "dug" here. Seriously. Courts look at contracts. Email can suffice. There is failure to perform, which you might try to accuse me of. But then there is recourse permitted. You can argue, "Renter failed to perform". But you're stuck with, "What are my options to seek restitution?" To follow some here, the options are what you say they are in the absence of anything written. You can ask for the entire rental amount, you can keep the entire deposit, you can keep some of the deposit - do what you like, cause it's whatever you want it to be.

No.

If your renter fails to perform, you are entitled to recourse per the terms of your agreement. If your contract says you get to keep the entire fee no matter what, you get to do that. If it says you get to keep $200, that's what you get. And if it says nothing...that's what you get to do.

If this owner had told me I was going to lose every dime, I would not be here. I would have known. SHE DIDN'T.

If this owner had given me the chance to TRY and help her find a tenant (I could have asked people I know even!) I would have. SHE DIDN'T.

It's just not that hard.

Really. It's not.

Owners, please give your renters agreements. Please spell out your terms so the renter can agree (or not). Please tell them ahead of time what you plan to do with their money. This situation would have been avoided completely if that had just happened.

Will you just stop? Settle this with the owner. You know you made a deal and then decided you wanted to back out after the fact. We all know that now.

 

[DeniseM]

This thread is spiraling down to an ugly end. The thread has obviously struck a chord with people - but no matter how strongly you feel, you must still observe the TUG rules of courtesy - and that's not happening.

I'm going to close the thread and let everyone cool down.

If either Jennifer or yumdrey wants to post about a RESOLUTION of this situation, then they can pm me and I will open it up.

*I will try to move the secondary topic to a new thread, so it can continue.

Have a good weekend folks!