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Grand Luxxe Nuevo I am in you

hellolani

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Anyone around for the next week that I can buy a drink for? We went to the new resto Quinto at the top of tower 5 and had dinner during the storm - amazing. Is that pool a restricted access pool? I'm still not totally clear - I know the sky pool in the residences is restricted. I also saw there is a presentation centre in tower 5, anyone know who gets to go to those ones? I'm scheduled for a presentation on Saturday, but it's low season so I expect a noob that I won't be able to extract much quality information from.

Will report back after!
 

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Okay well, with no answers I went to get my own. The 9th floor of Tower 5 has a presentation area but it is not full suites, it seems to be a survey of interior furnishings only. I managed 2 hours with 2 toddlers in the Quinto pool before they caught us and kicked us out. It was dead there, off season. They identify you by your bracelet. The owners in tower 5 and the residences are allowed in the skypool but not the other GL tower residents. You need either an all black bracelet or a bracelet with a yellow coloured face. I'm going to try to get the full pipeline / tiering info on GL at the presentation. I'll report back after.

PS: I'm in the 3 BR presidential on 2nd floor of Punta, same suite as last year, for 2 weeks. I'm already booked for 2018 and 2019, each in 2weeks back to back in 3br. I asked about doing the presentation if they upgraded me to the loft layout, but was told again it couldn't be done. So now I am quite convinced that the trader you use designated which suites you can get. I'm betting my Williamsburg Plantation taps out at Punta. However, I would be interested to know if I do better at MR compound as I could see the 4BRs there and those are Residences only. Anyone else have comments on what you used to get into a 2-3 BR loft?
 
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pittle

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Most folks cannot get a 3 bedroom Punta. Count your blessings!
 

hellolani

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Ok guys, presentation report. I got Spencer - he normally only does the member upgrade presentations but it was dead and he was switched over to us in a "marketing week". He said he's an introvert and he'll give it to us straight and not waste our time. I agree that he has a good touch and once he realized how conversant I was in the system and in timeshares in general he really did cut to the chase. With 4 kids and 4 adults breakfast was a series of broken conversations, but I gave him a choice. I am the decision maker in my household and you can keep my kids here with my husband and have them destroy your presentation floor and annoy all your other guests, or you can release the spouses and kids and just hold 2 of the parents hostage for the duration. I promised I was actually interested in chatting and I was. It was much easier without the kids and we got out by 3pm with a 10 AM breakfast start. I actually enjoyed having Spencer as he's been around since 2002 so clearly had some legs in the organization and was not easy to fluster like our last girl.

We agreed to do the presentation for a waiver of my 2x $75 fees and cab back to airport for 8. They tossed in the Vida privilege card with allows you to get reduced greens fees and 50% off swedish massage, and a few free drinks with full priced meals. Oh and 10% off food and bev that's full price charged to the rooms.

Tower 5 has some preconstruction lofts left and I remember Seema getting a deal he was satisfied with buying straight into the GL level. MFs per use week are $1350 USD, and you can use up to 5 weeks in your loft for the first 10 years, 4 in the next 90, but every 10 years there is an upkeep fee of 2x your MFs ($2700) which is a standalone additional fee. It looks like if you make a request to upgrade you can sometimes get a larger suite than the one you own as long as you don't go Jan to March and you pay the proportionally higher MFs. I know some of you have free massages and golf per stay in your contract but as of right now it seem like they are only offering that at 50% off.

We did go through the theatre of assessing my current ownerships for trade value but when it was clear that I had a price reference from a previous negotiation, the sales manager kindly put aside the pretense and we started in at $68,900 for the studio loft and $110,000 for the 1br penthouse loft. I sent in a $25K offer for the studio loft and a counter offer of $38K came back. We settled in between that but I told them that I would not be signing anything until the next day and sleeping on it and making sure I had all my questions lined up to be answered. They said they never do that but I think they saw my clarity and assertiveness and said they would hold my ID if I made an appointment for the next morning. So I'm in at 9:30 AM tomorrow to say no thanks or bring in more negotiations. I plan to ask for it in writing that I can get the GL black wristband at the highest access level no matter how I come on resort - ie through a getaway week to GM or whatever. Also I want to test the transfer fee of 10x MFs for resale. Since they argue that buying into Vidanta is an investment that you can get your money out of, I will go back in on that language to insist that I be able to do so by the open market on my own terms if desired.

What else should I ensure is included in my contract? I appreciate any input from current owners.
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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Hi Hellolani ,
Some of your " addendums" may have to be negotiated with Member Sevices
so make your best deal with Spencer
read the contract then rescind & negotiate .

See Mikenk many posts on this concept .
" for 5 days you have control" - since you can rescind again - if still not to your satisfaction .
 

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Hellolani,

Here are some comments from my perspective:

Here is what I understand you are being offered:
- The one bedroom penthouse loft in Building 5. (Question how does the penthouse loft differ from the other bedroom lofts in Building 5?)
- I assume you will have the addendum that you only pay if you go, correct?
- It seems like they are offering golf at 50%.
- You can use the unit 5 times per year for the first 10 years and 4 times per year after.
- I didn't see any other additions. Did I miss anything?

Here is what comes to mind for you to ask them and one to ask yourself before you decide.
- For them, what is the internal trade equivalents for that unit; it will be in the contract. e.g. Can you exchange your 1-bedroom for a 2 bedroom Luxxe or a 2 bedroom Grand Bliss. IMO, You want more flexibility than the 1 bedroom loft floorplan.
- For you to think about, assuming you will only pay if you go, then what you are really buying are prepaid vacations. Are you going to use it enough to justify the cost? What are you really gaining on each trip rather than just trading in? and what are all the things you need from them to make it work for you? Then demand those things or walk.

Assuming you move ahead, then the fun starts. Sales will turn you over to someone from Member Services who will do all the paperwork. At this point, you will get the contract. Remember you are now in control for 5 days and remember what is in the contract is what you own regardless what Spencer might have told you. You have to read every word and understand it; if you don't, go back to Member Services to understand (not Spencer). Trust me, you will have some surprises. Decide what you want changed in the contract to justify the cost and then demand it or rescind with Member Services; at that point and the next 4 days, you are in control of the negotiation; after that, they are in charge.

Good Luck,
Mike
 
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hellolani

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Thanks mikenk for chiming in. The penthouse lofts are a true lofted 1 br on the top level with the full kitchen, and as they require a double height floor they are much fewer in inventory than the studio lofts on the rest of the floors and you are guaranteed to have the top floor.

My negotiation was for the smaller studio style loft which is not a true loft.

I do have the no use no pay option but am required to use at least one week every other year or 5, I forgot which. Also the 2700 fee applies every 10 years as a standalone fee.

Each year I get 10 ambassador weeks to give away and 300 bucks per taker, plus a small commission for any buyer who comes in on one of those weeks.

My mfs get matched by Vida dollars but I said I would never buy anything that way so I don't even consider it part of the deal.

The internal trade goes to a jr villa luxxe, 2br gm, or gb 1br. Thanks for pushing me to check on that as it's not got as much internal value as I wanted.

So based on that review, I will not be signing tomorrow. I can still get too much more value trading in on off peak months to pay more for effectively less right now, and I will periodically reassess as they keep changing up the rules in the game.

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T-Dot-Traveller

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Hellolani,
I am glad Mike posted directly to your question(s) regarding the negotiation process .

*****

1)Mike has mentioned in prior posts that he negotiated a addendum with Member Services
that states something to the affect that - " after the 10 year registered week is renewed ( by paying the 2 x MF / upkeep fee)
one of the residence weeks takes on all the rights & privileges of the initial 10 year registered week .
This is likely important if Vidanta were to stop building , as your week would have priority over other residence weeks owners.

2)ARP - at least one week should be 12 months or better . ( As a Canadian - you want this so you can get prime time Feb. if needed / I realize you are in Vancouver - but what if in 5 years you or your husband get an amazing job in Winnipeg or your children move to Edmonton when they are adults)

3)< The value in owning ( rather than just exchanging into ) Vidanta is likely over the long term - >
so make sure you get the xx% cap on MF increases . The most common version is 5% yearly cap - which is actually detailed as - USA CPI inflation rate with an additional +/- 5% for Mexican inflation . Over the last 10 years the actual increase in my Mayan Palace per year has been less than this, since USA CPI inflation has been low . My MF is now less than what a newly sold contract is likely to have as a MF .
Unlike most TS systems, Vidanta has many different MF's for the same unit - generally based on the year bought and the xx% MF cap(s) . That is one reason why they like to upgrade existing owners - it allows for a new "reset" on the MF based on the brand upgrade .

4)Since your children are young , I would make sure you have a specific addendum for use (and MF) of the brand buildings that will be inside the theme park being built in Nuevo
Currently the models listed are Cascades (RCI DA86) and Kingdom of the Sun ( and KS loft ) The NV wall map also shows Kingdom of the Stars and Grand Cascades .( no buildings planned - yet for GS or KStars )
I believe that a product called - Entertainment Collection(and Grand E) is being sold that gives a 10 year registered week in Cascades that renews as Bliss-Mayan Palace (GE renews to GM -GB )
I assume you could negotiate a 10 year (from park opening) addendum and I would push for longer based on your children's current age .
This falls under Mike's suggestion of max flexibility of use of all Vidanta brand levels / and MF cost range for each .

5) Of all the "extras" ( Vida dollars , Ambassador certs. ,SFX Vida weeks etc ) I believe privilege weeks may be of long term value . They seem to work like the weeks they are already including that have no Jan- March ARP .

6) Golf - if you decide to negotiate with Member Services - I would push for at least one round of free golf per week used ( for 2 golfers) .
-50 % off can be off any rate set in the future / free is always free . < older contract like Mike's have multiple free rounds per week - which may no longer be available >

7) 10 x MF transfer price .
Remember it can transfer to your children with no transfer cost .
There has been at least one Grand Luxxe contract listed for sale on TUG - that stated there was a Vidanta "sanctioned" way to avoid the 10 x MF . I believe it could have been by adding a
new owner name to an existing contract . If you negotiate an addendum to have the right to add "owner names " without activating a transfer I think you may have a solution .
<Vidanta wanted their product off ebay resales and the transfer price cost has achieved this >

I hope this helps
 
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mikenk

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Hellolani, it looks to me you are doing due diligence; I wish more folks that attend the presentation would do that.

This brings up some interesting questions: Does Vidanta ownership ever make sense? Does traditional timeshare ownership ever make sense? I believe the right answer is it all depends on what you want, but if you don't really think through your goals, you will probably be disappointed.

Certainly, on Tug, the answer is generally: Vidanta ownership makes no sense and traditional timeshares and related exchange ownership makes good sense. For me, traditional timeshares make no sense if it includes a yearly obligation that goes on forever. Times change, interests change, timeshares deteriorate; people often just want out.

So how about Vidanta ownership; does it ever make sense? You certainly can see millions of posts on Tug that Vidanta ownership is worthless; just trade in. Well, it's really not that simple to many.

Consider:
- Some (like me) don't have a timeshare to trade in and have no desire to get one (even free)
- Ownership versus non ownership becomes a simple process as it is nothing more than prepaid vacations. Are you willing to pay this amount to get these benefits? What are those benefits? Well it depends on what you negotiate. Tom, in the above post, mentioned a bunch of possibilities and there are others. My guess is that all of the Vidanta regulars on Tug have all got something different customized to their individual goals. I like that and feel like I have a great contract not only for my wife and me - but also our kids and grandkids for the future. Every time I go, I look for opportunities to enhance my contract for the family.
- To be honest, most of us got our contracts preconstruction - but that is still going on to a lesser degree as Vidanta expands; we have already added access privileges for the Cirque d'Soleil theme park for grandkids.
- The question now is whether ownership still makes sense today since it is relatively easy for people to trade in - but will that continue and at what costs. Vidanta purposely makes it easy today as they release excess inventory to get people in the door - but they are and will continually raise the rates. While I have no crystal ball, it will be interesting to see what it costs and the availability after the Cirque theme park is in place.
- The bottom line is that ownership has worked well for us and for many others. Vacationing is expensive (just got back from a river cruise, ouch!); spend your money wisely not on a whim.

Mike
 
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we got out by 3pm with a 10 AM breakfast start

Wait - you spent FIVE HOURS in a sales presentation??? That's a nightmare - no way!
 

hellolani

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Under the premise of owning where you want to go, I continue to reassess ownership options at Vidanta and evaluate that tipping point as it moves. Right now I'm still doing better as a trader and get huge value in my willingness to plan ahead, travel in the off season and spending time to research the current lay of the land.

It's actually a pleasure for me to attend the presentation as my objective is not to get out quickly but to understand the system as deeply as possible. I did decline to purchase today and was sorry to piss off Robert the sales manager to do it, but thanks to tug I have pretty robust due diligence processes and am not going to sign on for something of lesser value than what I currently have.

I do love gl though and part of my motivation is to join the system and support it rather than simply continuing to exploit it. It has to make sense though financially and right now it still doesn't.

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pittle

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Well, my thoughts are to buy where you want to go, BUT, if you can get there for less $$$, that is even better. :) You seem to have it working with confirmations for the next 2 years! :) I love the resorts, but also take every opportunity that I can to use exchanges to get into them. These are less than the cost of MF's. We have not used our Grand Luxxe units but once in the past 4 years because of the exchange & extra vacation availability for Grand Mayan and Grand Bliss. Yes, GL is significantly better, but we can stay several weeks for less than the MF for one of our 2-bedroom weeks. We have 3 more years until our Senior Certificates kick in and then plan go to GL for as long as we can.
 
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hellolani

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Well, my thoughts are to buy where you want to go, BUT, if you can get there for less $$$, that is even better. :) You seem to have it working with confirmations for the next 2 years! :) I love the resorts, but also take every opportunity that I can to use exchanges to get into them. These are less than the cost of MF's. We have not used our Grand Luxxe units but once in the past 4 years because of the exchange & extra vacation availability for Grand Mayan and Grand Bliss. Yes, GL is significantly better, but we can stay several weeks for less than the MF for one of our 2-bedroom weeks. We have 3 more years until our Senior Certificates kick in and then plan go to GL for as long as we can.
Pittle please tell me more about senior certificates and how they work?

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Anyone around for the next week that I can buy a drink for? We went to the new resto Quinto at the top of tower 5 and had dinner during the storm - amazing. Is that pool a restricted access pool? I'm still not totally clear - I know the sky pool in the residences is restricted. I also saw there is a presentation centre in tower 5, anyone know who gets to go to those ones? I'm scheduled for a presentation on Saturday, but it's low season so I expect a noob that I won't be able to extract much quality information from.

Will report back after!
 

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Interesting thread. Is Vidanta still selling the 1 bedroom 2-level Penthouse Lofts in B5? How much are they selling for? They are much nicer than the Studio Lofts since they are two levels with double windows, penthouse level with a guaranteed view and right below the rooftop pool. There are only about 18 one-bedroom PH-level lofts in B5 so I assume there are limited sales. I am wondering what folks know about these gorgeous units?
 

hellolani

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Interesting thread. Is Vidanta still selling the 1 bedroom 2-level Penthouse Lofts in B5? How much are they selling for? They are much nicer than the Studio Lofts since they are two levels with double windows, penthouse level with a guaranteed view and right below the rooftop pool. There are only about 18 one-bedroom PH-level lofts in B5 so I assume there are limited sales. I am wondering what folks know about these gorgeous units?
Yes, and they have a more limited supply. They are lovely and the first number they gave me was 110k. They told me they sell 1 month blocks and only have 1 floor worth of units versus multiple floors of the studio loft, they also told me for some reason they can only sell 70% of available usage. Not sure why that is, whether due to reserving weeks for marketing or due to statistically knowing that there are months where no one will want to come.

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Yes, and they have a more limited supply. They are lovely and the first number they gave me was 110k. They told me they sell 1 month blocks and only have 1 floor worth of units versus multiple floors of the studio loft, they also told me for some reason they can only sell 70% of available usage. Not sure why that is, whether due to reserving weeks for marketing or due to statistically knowing that there are months where no one will want to come.

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Are you an owner at Vidanta already? If so, what do you own and where? From you previous posts, I got the impression that you declined the offer to purchase the one story studio loft.
 

hellolani

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Not an owner. Keep flirting with the idea but can't financially justify it. When it gets more expensive to trade in than to own or if I just can't get inventory any other way, I will probably buy in.

Got all the information above in yesterday's sales presentation I attended.

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pittle

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Pittle please tell me more about senior certificates and how they work?

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These were only available to people who owned before the end of November 2006 and they had to go to Customer Service at one of the resorts to sign up within an 18 month time frame that ended in mid-2008. IF they did this, they would be given the Senior certificate and when they turned 75, they paid 1/2 a MF to use their week(s) and when they are 77, there are NO MF when they go. Only the original owners can use this and it is NOT transferable to their heirs or by resale. One of the original owners must be there with their passport to use the Senior Certificate week.

It was unique and my guess is that they have come to regret it because lots of us snagged this opportunity and are now getting closer to using it. When we upgraded our 4 MP weeks and 2 GM weeks, they allowed us to keep it. If they had not, we would not have upgraded. We do not need 6 2-bedroom weeks each year now, but will love our 2 2-bedroom weeks that we can split into 4 weeks for just the 2 of us in luxury. We can have our grown children join us.

I know of quite a few owners that missed out on this and were sorry they did not read the mailing with the information. We made a point to check in with Customer Service in RM when we were there in February 2007. :)
 
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hellolani

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These were only available to people who owned before the end of November 2006 and they had to go to Customer Service at one of the resorts to sign up within an 18 month time frame that ended in mid-2008. IF they did this, they would be given the Senior certificate and when they turned 75, they paid 1/2 a MF to use their week(s) and when they are 77, there are NO MF when they go. Only the original owners can use this and it is NOT transferable to their heirs or by resale. One of the original owners must be there with their passport to use the Senior Certificate week.

It was unique and my guess is that they have come to regret it because lots of us snagged this opportunity and are now getting closer to using it. When we upgraded our 4 MP weeks and 2 GM weeks, they allowed us to keep it. If they had not, we would not have upgraded. We do not need 6 2-bedroom weeks each year now, but will love our 2 2-bedroom weeks that we can split into 4 weeks for just the 2 of us in luxury. We can have our grown children join us.
Now that is a perk I would pay for. Nice score and I'm delighted you will soon be able to access it!

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Now that is a perk I would pay for. Nice score and I'm delighted you will soon be able to access it!

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Nice Perk indeed. I go in January on the Senior Discount. For us golfers, the free golf has also been a nice addendum. I imagine Vidanta would like to rethink those - but they are not hurting. I do appreciate that they honor all these commitments with no issues.

Mike
 

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We have owned for so many years that I forget when we purchased but it was way back when the only "Vidanta" resort was called "Vidafel". Anyone remember that? The Vidafel resort was on the Marina but it was damaged in the Acapulco earthquake so they tore it down and built the new Mayan Palace that is there now. We upgraded when they started to built the first Mayan Palace in Nuevo years ago and again when they built the first Grand Mayan Palace in Nuevo, but never again. So we kept those old contracts with those LOW mt. fees and have used them every year since. We have a Senior Certificate and have used it for 15 years, as my husband is 90 and I am 87. So "Vidafel" or "Vidanta" has been very good to us and we love it, but it has outgrown us these past few years. We can no longer get around in that gigantic but beautiful resort there. Last yeas we booked for the first time at Sea Gardens and we were delighted to find our "little Mexican" resort again! We are going again this Oct/Nov to the Sea Gardens and hoping to go again in 2018 too
 
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pittle

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We have owned for so many years that I forget when we purchased but it was way back when the only "Vidanta" resort was called "Vidafel". Anyone remember that? The Vidafel resort was on the Marina but it was damaged in the Acapulco earthquake so they tore it down and built the new Mayan Palace that is there now. We upgraded when they started to built the first Mayan Palace in Nuevo years ago and again when they built the first Grand Mayan Palace in Nuevo, but never again. So we kept those old contracts with those LOW mt. fees and have used them every year since. We have a Senior Certificate and have used to for 15 years, as my husband is 90 and I am 87. So "Vidafel" or "Vidanta" has been very good to us and we love it, but it has outgrown us these past few years. We can no longer get around in that gigantic but beautiful resort there. Last yeas we booked for the first time at Sea Gardens and we were delighted to find our "little Mexican" resort again! We are going again this Oct/Nov to the Sea Gardens and hoping to go again in 2018 too

It was still Vidafel when we first bought in February 1999. We bought in Acapulco, but bought a 2-bedroom Sea Garden that was turned in for a MP upgrade. We bought because we had exchanged into an awful resort in Acapulco and took the tour to have something to do and get out of the awful place. They said we could move over to the MP in Acapulco and stay in a 1-bedroom unit. We bought and were staying there within an hour of signing the papers. Late in November 1999, we upgraded to MP because we knew it was nicer and they were building Nuevo.

We haven't regretted it and actually bought quite a few on resale between 2002-2007. Most of these had low MF and we loved sharing them with family & friends. We did upgrade some of the resales for 2-GM weeks at a great price and then in 2013, took the leap to Grand Luxxe. It made sense to us because we had a reno fee or 2 every year with all those contracts. But, somehow, they gave us the no pay unless you go on all of our contracts in 2007, so that helped. We only had one that we had to pay MF every year on, and it was a resale that we had not closed on at the time we got the letters about no pay unless you go. They have been good to us too.

I like the Marina location and we liked the Grand Mayan in Cabo San Jose because they were smaller.
 

joestein

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Thanks mikenk for chiming in. The penthouse lofts are a true lofted 1 br on the top level with the full kitchen, and as they require a double height floor they are much fewer in inventory than the studio lofts on the rest of the floors and you are guaranteed to have the top floor.

My negotiation was for the smaller studio style loft which is not a true loft.

I do have the no use no pay option but am required to use at least one week every other year or 5, I forgot which. Also the 2700 fee applies every 10 years as a standalone fee.

Each year I get 10 ambassador weeks to give away and 300 bucks per taker, plus a small commission for any buyer who comes in on one of those weeks.

My mfs get matched by Vida dollars but I said I would never buy anything that way so I don't even consider it part of the deal.

The internal trade goes to a jr villa luxxe, 2br gm, or gb 1br. Thanks for pushing me to check on that as it's not got as much internal value as I wanted.

So based on that review, I will not be signing tomorrow. I can still get too much more value trading in on off peak months to pay more for effectively less right now, and I will periodically reassess as they keep changing up the rules in the game.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


What is an ambassador week?
 

mikenk

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What is an ambassador week?

They might have changed since they gave me mine a couple of years back. Basically they are paying you a finders fee for getting people in the door. You can give a certificate to someone that they can use to get into the resort for the MF without any exchange. In return, you get a kickback regardless if they even attend the sales presentation. If they end up buying, you get a bigger kickback. I have no problem with it as it cost me nothing to get and it seems a real value to those I give it to; I did give a few out.

Mike
 
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