High Country Club Part 3

[Steamboat Bill]

Key risk element point is if future sales rates decline there will have to be a very significant increase in mf's going forward or the sale of properties in an attempt to reduce debt levels.

Did I miss anything?

I think your summary is very accurate...except the MF for current members are locked to COI + 2% max and the member to house ratio is about 7:1

 

[steve b]

I'm in HCC

After all the posts and research I finally decided to join HCC. I must say so far the sales staff has been extremely proffessional and have been a pleasure to work with in the contract process. I received my member ID and have done numerous searches of the on line reservation system and am extremely pleased with the availability. (Much better than we are all use to with II and RCI) So far I give High Country two thumbs up!
steve b

 

[Carlsbadguy]

I just got he info in the mail. I do have a couple of concerns. Affiliate members can only schedule a holiday week 6 months in advance, so I don't know how much holiday availability will be available. A lot of weeks are considered holiday weeks- including 4 weeks of soring break. Also affiliate members don't have an option of getting extra time. There is also the no renting policy and the fact that the member has to be in residence for all weeks. I am still considering doing this but need to look into it further.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

HCC will not allow renting your week. They have a family pass that allows immediate family members useage, but not strangers. This is becasue they are $1m properties and they want to make it exclusive for members.

HCC is alos making a few tighter restrictions on affiliate members as the club grows. I can see how the club will soon only cater to Private Members only as they would rather deal with less members at a higher buy-in and MF.

If I was retired, I would have joined as a Private Member, but I can't get that much time off, thus I joined as an affiliate member.

One thing to remember is that the Holiday reservations rotate one holiday per three year cycle. Thus with the current membership at 180 members, you in essence will only have 60 people possible competiting for 24 properties for any given holiday week.

Also consider the cost of a Holiday Hawaii or Park City Marriott week. The price for HCC is about the same, but you get 3 weeks: one holiday, one long term, one short term.

I agree that the spring break should be a holiday week because the club was started by skiiers and catered to the ski crowd. The Feb-March spring break period of 4 weeks is considered a holiday week.

 

[Laura7811]

To us the best thing about Hcc, is the way reservations work. If for some reason i don't get My first choice there are so many other great places to go, your going to get something.

And we plan on being members for a long time. So, if there is a property thats real hot in the beginning eventualy it will become available when we want it...

 

[Carl D]

I have personally forwarded several questions to HCC from Peelboy and PerryM posts. I will post their answers after I get them.

Bill, I have been following this thread with a bit of interest.
Any response to these questions, or did I just miss it somewhere in the thread?

Yes, it's a different business model than a timeshare, but 2+2 still =4, no matter what the business endeavor.

 

[caribbeansun]

It's hard for me to understand how they can make good on that particularly given the leverage being used. Five years from now when a mortgage matures if interest rates rise that would leave them without recourse.

If they can't get the increased costs from the existing members then they'd have to increase the cost to new members which of course makes the membership less desirable which could result in a decline of sales which leaves other parts of the plan vulnerable.

I tend to be quite conservative so perhaps that's why this bothers me and I hope everything works as planned for you!

I think your summary is very accurate...except the MF for current members are locked to COI + 2% max

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Bill, I have been following this thread with a bit of interest. Any response to these questions, or did I just miss it somewhere in the thread?

Yes, it's a different business model than a timeshare, but 2+2 still =4, no matter what the business endeavor.

I forwarded these messages to Heath Kirschner of HCC and he felt the explanations that have been posted on TUG (HCC part 1-3) were accurate.

He told me that he would disclose all their accounting books and projections to potential members, but you would have to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Althought this may sound strange, I signed the NDA two months ago and I was impressed with the amount of information they sent me. As far as I can tell, they have exceeded all their expectations and projections.

The DC industry is very small and competitive, HCC is already the 4th largest one and I predict they will be #2 shortly. The most appealing feature of HCC is their focus on properties that cost $850k-$1m where all the other DCs focus on properties that cost $3-$4m.

Thus, HCC really has no direct competition. I was the one who started the threads on TUG explaining that the real competition for HCC is the high-end timeshares. I currently own well over $100,000 worth of timeshare properties and $500k worth of hotel/condos. When I compared the math, I decided that the HCC destination club was a better value for me and my family.

I love the locations and sizes of the HCC properties and the fact that an "educated TS user (myself)" can really maximize the destination club experience.

I am not a shill for HCC..you can search all my TUG threads and find out that I have posted dozens of threads on how much I loved DVC and my Westgate Park City timeshares. There are even a few threads about my Marriott Manor Club purchase and my experience with Hotel/condos in Whistler. I even posted a message that I really DON'T want any TUG users to join HCC as they will give me more competition for reservations than the average lazy rich (less aggresive) members.

I highly reccomend looking into the affiliate program NOW as the price increases March 1, 2007. After March, I will probably only reccomend the Private Membership as the price difference will not be that much.

 

[caribbeansun]

Well, curiousity got the better of me and I've requested their information on their Group plan to see if there's a possible fit with some other folks I know.

I'll be more than happy to post what I can here as I learn more.

Cheers!

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I spoke with Heath today and he informed me that they are getting ready to announce a few more new locations.

I can't post them yet, but one is a mountain ski property, one is an international, and one is a US city.

I remain impressed by the HCC quality.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

HCC now has 200 members!!!

HCC has added about 30 new members in the past 60 days. This is good news because for every 8 new members, HCC must add a new property.

FYI: the buy-in price increases $10k on March 1st. If you have any questions, you can PM me directly.

Here is a press release HCC announced today.....


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Heath Kirschner, High Country Club
(720) 221-0416
Heath@highcountryclub.com

High Country Club Exceeds 200 Members
Destination Club Makes 25 Luxury Properties Available Worldwide

[Text of press release removed - please review the posting rules re copyrighted material. Anyone interested may click here to read the release from the HCC website. -- mg]

 

[travelguy]

200 Members!

Bill,

This is great news for High Country Club members!

More properties @ no additional cost to us. The 200 member mark puts High Country Club WAY ahead of their 10 year business plan projection that they sent to me during my due diligence of the company. This gives High Country Club tremendous cash flow, asset accumulation and property appreciation that benefits members, principles and investors alike. This is why a properly executed Destination Club business plan is a win/win/win situation for all involved!

 

[Bourne]

After doing my due diligence, I am in the process of signing up as an affiliate member.

Here is the reason why we are buying a HCC membership.

Both the wife and I are in our early 30s. For the longest time, we, as DINKS, were happy and contended with a hotel unit for our vacations. There was no need to cook and partying out was much more fun.

About 6 years back, we bought our first HGVC property because we knew our requirements will change to a minimum of a 1Br unit going forward. Again, we were booking studio units as much as possible to maximize out points/day usage till the baby was born about a year back.

Now, the minimum requirement is a 1Br unit with a kitchen. For the most part, we do not travel in off/shoulder season. As a result, the yearly outlay of 7000 points is not enough. We had to depend on SFX promotions to somehow get 2-4 weeks worth of 1Br units. Even though I have had great success with exchanges (Four Seasons Aviara, Westin Kierland, Grand Mayans, Manhattan Club, Windjammer St Lucia, etc...), the effort and flexibility required is not worth it at times. As a result, we bought the second 7000 platinum unit about six months back.

Now, with a year old toddler in place and another kid planned in the next few years, the requirement has gone up to a minimum of 2Br unit for travels 3-5 years from now. A minimum of three 2Br platinum weeks with HGVC/Starwood would cost me north of 40K and 3K in annual dues. And exchanging into a 2Br unit instead of 1Br is far more difficult.

Honestly, I don't want to 'seriously consider' buying a destination club membership 5 years from now when the minimum buy-in price is north of 150K-200K. I am willing to take the risk of buying into an industry that is still in its infancy and holds great promise and benefits for the future. Also, the rules are a lot more flexible now which is evident from the contract that I signed.

 

[travelguy]

Congratulations

After doing my due diligence, I am in the process of signing up as an affiliate member.

Bourne,

Congratulations on joining High Country Club. I personally believe that you've made a good decision and it sounds like you've done extensive due diligence. I believe that you'll like the properties and ease of reservation. I'm currently in the High Country Club Snowmass ski property and was able to book this within the last 45 days. So far I'm impressed with HCC. I'm eager to see where their new properties are located.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Honestly, I don't want to 'seriously consider' buying a destination club membership 5 years from now when the minimum buy-in price is north of 150K-200K. I am willing to take the risk of buying into an industry that is still in its infancy and holds great promise and benefits for the future. Also, the rules are a lot more flexible now which is evident from the contract that I signed.

That is the same reasons I joined HCC...great price for us early adopters!

 

[kylii]

Current HCC Member

I joined HCC in May 2006. I couldn't find any information in the TUG bulletin board then, so I did my own research (mostly thru the Helium Report) and decided to join. I am an Affiliate member and I paid $20,000 for my membership and I pay $350/mo ($4200/yr) for MF.

I thought it would be helpful to share my reservation experience with HCC.

I booked the Playa Del Carmen property about 6 months out for the first week in April this year (spring break). About 90 days out I changed my mind and decided to do a ski week instead. I went on the reservation and site, cancelled the Playa reservation, and booked the Winter Park property. Just like that, with only one visit to the Web site. I NEVER could have done that with my Worldmark points. I was hanging on to my Worldmark points because HCC didn't have a Whistler property, yet. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get into Whistler this year so I'm now ready to sell my WM points.

My only disappointment in the HCC reservation system is that currently the Colorado properties can only be booked on a Friday to Friday. That works fine if you live in Colorado and want to drive up to the mountains after work on Friday, but it doesn't work well if you have to fly in. I would like to see a system wide Saturday to Saturday check-in/out.

Just one more note for Perry. One of the reasons I decided to join HCC was at that time they were offering a 80% recoup at the CURRENT membership price. That means in March when the price goes up to $40,000 for my Affiliate membership my 80% recoup is this:

$40,000 X .80 = $32,000

Of course, I am not interested in getting out anytime soon, but it is nice to
know.

HCC works for me because I have three kids and always want a kitchen and laundy facilities. Worldmark almost worked, but I didn't have the time to research locations, resort ratings, and try to snag holiday reservations that work with the kids school schedule. Now I can spend time trying to snag low airline ticket prices instead.

The most fun part of being a member has been getting on the Web site and seeing all of the locations that are added. When I joined there were several Colorado ski locations plus Hawaii, Cabo, and I think Playa Del Carmen also. It is fun to watch the club grow.

 

[PerryM]

Congratulations

Kylii,

I’m glad you got on the 80% of Current membership fee when cancelling – it was not available when I started to investigate. I believe I missed it by 2 weeks. If it were available at the time I would have gladly taken the plunge.

I’m assuming that if HCC does well others will model after them and we will again look at a DC at that time.

I’m guessing but the new personal jets will probably be incorporated into DC’s in the future. Link: http://www.gizmag.com/go/3848/ They will cost about $1.5 M and carry 4 folks at a cost close to first class airfare but can take off and land at much smaller airports, and when you want to leave. Another link: http://www.sport-jet.com/ This will open a flood gate of new folks who want high end vacationing at a budget price. The hassle at the major airports on commercial aircraft will only get worse and worse over the years.

http://www.maverickjets.com/index.php to drool over.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

My only disappointment in the HCC reservation system is that currently the Colorado properties can only be booked on a Friday to Friday. That works fine if you live in Colorado and want to drive up to the mountains after work on Friday, but it doesn't work well if you have to fly in. I would like to see a system wide Saturday to Saturday check-in/out.

Just one more note for Perry. One of the reasons I decided to join HCC was at that time they were offering a 80% recoup at the CURRENT membership price. That means in March when the price goes up to $40,000 for my Affiliate membership my 80% recoup is this:

$40,000 X .80 = $32,000

HCC will be changing the Colorado reservations to Saturday-Saturday just like the other properties. I think the change-over is in 2008.

BTW - You got a fantastic deal when you joined....I am jealouse. But at least I got a good deal and after the price increase in march 2007, I will be happy I joined in December 2006.

It amazes me that they have already hit the 200 member mark.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I’m guessing but the new personal jets will probably be incorporated into DC’s in the future. Link: http://www.gizmag.com/go/3848/ They will cost about $1.5 M and carry 4 folks at a cost close to first class airfare but can take off and land at much smaller airports, and when you want to leave. Another link: http://www.sport-jet.com/ This will open a flood gate of new folks who want high end vacationing at a budget price. The hassle at the major airports on commercial aircraft will only get worse and worse over the years.

http://www.maverickjets.com/index.php to drool over.

I agree that this will be a trend soon.

BTW - I see PerryM updated his photo....how was the snow in Utah?

 

[lostinjapan14]

You have all completely sold me on this idea of joining HCC. Unfortunately I don't have the money to buy in until I sell off some things.

Do you have to pay for your membership in cash? Also, will you still at least be able to get 80% of your original membership cost back (as opposed to the current membership cost back).

Maybe I should call and see what the current offer is.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

You have all completely sold me on this idea of joining HCC. Unfortunately I don't have the money to buy in until I sell off some things.

Do you have to pay for your membership in cash? Also, will you still at least be able to get 80% of your original membership cost back (as opposed to the current membership cost back).

Maybe I should call and see what the current offer is.

I hope you join HCC because the more members that join, the more properties that will be added.

I know HCC is VERY flexible in how you pay. I was able to join and freeze my mebership for one year. I did pay the membership fee in full, but froze my MF and usage. I would call Heath to ask about your payment options.

Yes, the 80% of your buy-in price will be refunded if you want out. The lucky first 50 people that joined get 80% of the CURRENT price refunded. Thus, they are already into the PROFIT zone. This opprotunity no longer exists, but I still think the club offers a great benefit to cost ratio.

 

[travelguy]

HCC Colorado property Saturday Check-in

My only disappointment in the HCC reservation system is that currently the Colorado properties can only be booked on a Friday to Friday. That works fine if you live in Colorado and want to drive up to the mountains after work on Friday, but it doesn't work well if you have to fly in. I would like to see a system wide Saturday to Saturday check-in/out.

Bill is correct. High Country Club is changing the check-in/out days in the Colorado properties from Friday to Saturday based upon input from members! Once again I’m impressed on how quickly these guys act to make the High Country Club experience better.

Here’s the official quote from Heath at HCC:

“We are actively working with our web designers to get that change where ALL reservation will be from Saturday – Saturday, hopefully it will happen soon”

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Here is a copy of the latest HCC press release:

Join High Country Club today and save over $10,000 on our Affiliate Membership!

On March 1, 2007, High Country Club's Affiliate Membership Fee will increase from $30,000 to $40,000. Annual dues will increase from $4,800 to $5,400. Members have the opportunity to recoup 80% of their Membership Fee subject to Club rules and regulations.

Over the past year, High Country Club's membership has grown to over 200 members and 25 luxurious properties in some of the world's most desirable destinations.

Whether it's booking flights, reserving a deep-sea fishing trip, coordinating wine tours or confirming tee times, your High Country Club Concierge will assist you every step of the way.

Please visit our website at www.highcountryclub.com or contact a High Country Club representative for more information at 303-991-2300.

 

[hunkyleebo]

Destination Clubs

I reviewed the HCC website and the printed materials they sent me. It looks like a good alternative to high end timeshares.

I've been wondering why someone couldn't do something similar with timeshare weeks instead of resort houses/condos? If you could create a pool of timeshare weeks, club members could pick from the available weeks instead of having to try and play the trading games.

Instead of a large initiation fee (like HCC) folks with existing timeshares could transfer their existing timeshare deeds to the club. You'd have to find a way to resolve the variations in value between weeks and find a way to rent out the unused weeks.

Lee

 

[Steamboat Bill]

As an owner of DVC, Marriott, Westage Park City, and Whistler Delta Village Suites, I can tell you that the High Country Club memebrship is very reasonably priced.

Their initiation fee is LESS than a Marriott ski week or Hawaii week. Remember that you are buying HCC directly from the developer and are guaranteed 80% back when you sell. This is a small issue, if you plan on being a member for several years as the savings from each trip makes up for this.

Remember that these are $800k-$1m properties and you don't have to deal with II, etc.

Your idea sounds good, but is will result in people trying to "trade-up". In the timeshare world, there are winners (trade-upers) and losers (trade-downer or unused). In the HCC world, you will always get to stay in a nice unit.

I reviewed the HCC website and the printed materials they sent me. It looks like a good alternative to high end timeshares.

I've been wondering why someone couldn't do something similar with timeshare weeks instead of resort houses/condos? If you could create a pool of timeshare weeks, club members could pick from the available weeks instead of having to try and play the trading games.

Instead of a large initiation fee (like HCC) folks with existing timeshares could transfer their existing timeshare deeds to the club. You'd have to find a way to resolve the variations in value between weeks and find a way to rent out the unused weeks.

Lee