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[ 2017 ] How to compare point systems?

TUGBrian

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Sandy VDH

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tugjb

I will comment on where points programs I know fall. Others can add Marriott, Hyatt, and others where they see fit.

There are 4 types of points systems AFAIK. They don't really affect how points are used in regular season usage, except for Home week usage, but they do vary on how MF/point are determined.

Pure Points - this is like the Worldmark system, (parts of the Wyndham are now sold this way and they belong to Club Wyndham Access (CWA)) . Worldmark was set up where only credits are sold and MF is the same for every credit in the system. Some WM memberships have an added fee for a feature called Travelshare.

Resort Based Points - Parts of Wyndham properties are sold like this - it is like pure points, in that you own an UDI - UnDivided Interest in Points currency. Since your MFs are resort specific you belong to the Club Wyndham Select (CWS) type of membership. Your MF are based on WHERE points are owned. However MFs are NOT standard across the entire system, they are RESORT SPECIFIC. There are variations, some resorts have better MF/point costs. I believe DVC is also like this.

Resort Based Size/Season Points - this is what Hilton Grand Vacation system is (Legacy parts of Wyndham is this way, and there is it called Converted Fixed/Float Weeks, and they are also part of the CWS type of membership). They are all sold as fixed or floating weeks for a given size and season of unit. MFs at a property are the same for all the same size units regardless of season. However points are awarded by Season and Unit type owned. So MF per point vary. Seasons are Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze in HGVC. It is better to own Platinum as your MF/point are the lowest possible. Bronze week ownership could result in MFs/point that are 4 times higher than a Platinum week in the same size unit.

Hybrid Points - Wyndham is the king of hybrids as they have all of the 3 types above in one system. Hybrids could be any combination of the above choices. CWA is now sold as a Pure Points where there is a common MF/point. (It is made up of converting older resort inventory obtained and converted to CWA and MFs are just a blend across all ownership deposited into CWA.) Wyndham has CWS that is either Resort Based Points (UDI points) OR Resort Based Size/Season Points which is essentially converted fixed/floating weeks in points). Club Wyndham Presidential Reserve and Club Margaritaville are also Resort Based Points CWS, but these are also a club within the Wyndham Club. They get special perks at their club within a club that the rest of club wyndham has access to in different time increments, if at all.

Since you can buy any of the parts of Wyndham today (and also UNCONVERTED FIXED and FLOATING weeks, that while Wyndham, they are NOT wyndham points and are usually too expensive to convert), it is very important to know what type you are buying if you are interested in obtaining Wyndham points.

Here is Wyndham's definition of the part that make up Wyndham :
Four products have access to the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus exchange program, each with unique attributes that appeal to different types of owners.
 
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rhonda

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I found this updating the advice section last night...looks like it was last updated in 2013....maybe we can expand on it in this thread? ill be happy to update it!

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/hotel_based_timeshare_comparison.html
Brian -- there was a far better comparison doc but it was much older. Perhaps it still exists in an archive, somewhere? It included topics such as banking/borrowing, guest cert fees, housekeeping fees, etc. I'm pretty certain it addressed DVC, Worldmark, Wyndham, and Bluegreen -- perhaps others, too.
 

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we can certainly modify/add to this existing one...im certainly game to do so (it needs to be modified to be mobile friendly anyway).

im not sure just comparing the 4 hotel chain developers is really all that big of a deal anymore vs comparing all the major players in the game....the latter being far more useful im sure!

we can just rename it "Timeshare System Comparison Chart" and add them all.
 

TUGBrian

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first which all should be added, I come up with 9?

Marriott, Hilton, Vistana, Hyatt, Wyndham, Worldmark, Bluegreen, DRI, Disney any others worth adding that I missed?
 

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I thought it useful to discuss types of systems, important to note on resale what to look for and what if any things are lost as a result of the resale.

It is hard to compare $$ to units unless you know some of that method that goes into determining your MFs $$. I did the few that I know of above. Perhaps the Hyatt, Marriott and Vistana (*wood, whatever it is called now), and others can be added. Start with the big ones and add the litter ones in comparison.

Wyndham is going through enhancements next weekend, which means changes to what we have been doing as they have implemented new business rules, and some new terminology. We need the new system in and some time to play with it to comment on some items.
 

TUGBrian

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I think we could make a useful chart that didnt compare money (or of it did, perhaps it could include the average cost/maint fee of an "entry level" package for each one.
 

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just tossed this together quickly as an idea

http://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare-system-comparison-chart.html

note that vs typing in a giant paragraph describing all the differences between resale/retail...perhaps just a "significant" or "yes" would apply, with a link to a forum thread or advice article that details the differences that exist.
 

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added a few more items to it tonight. any suggestions on any additional rows to add for comparison?
 

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For Worldmark: there are 90 resorts, it's not deeded and the booking window is 13 months.
Maintenance fees are based on a formula but probably average about .06/point and a regular 2 BR in high season ranges from 10000-14500 points so the cost for that week would be $600-$870. If you used the words approximately and average you could probably put together a cost comparison. However, I don't know if you could do the same with the many variations in some of the other systems.

Sue
 

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added those details to the WM column thanks!
 
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WorldMark is a Club Membership, not a deeded ownership.

The average account size is 15,000 credits, paying $1088.76 mf in 2017 -- $0.0725/credit.

This makes a 2 bedroom high season cost range $725 - $1050.

(The $0.06/credit level is not reached until owning more than 60,000 credits).

Entry level package is 6,000 credits, but a much better level is 10,000 credits for a more efficient mf cost. Current resale cost is $0.25 - $0.35/credit plus closing costs and $299 transfer fee.
 

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added a few more items to it tonight. any suggestions on any additional rows to add for comparison?

Some data for the Table:

DRI
------
Diamond's points do not exchange in RCI

Average (2br) Maint Fees
6,500 points gets a 2br in the high demand seasons
$1,500 - $1,600 are the MF for 6,500 (US Collection/ Hawaii Collection)

Reservation Window
13 months -- Home Collection
10 months -- everything else



Bluegreen
------------
Bluegreen points do not exchange in II

Reservation Window
11 months

Average (2br) Maint Fees
18,000 point high demand season $1,340
 

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For Worldmark: there are 90 resorts, it's not deeded and the booking window is 13 months.
Maintenance fees are based on a formula but probably average about .06/point and a regular 2 BR in high season ranges from 10000-14500 points so the cost for that week would be $600-$870. If you used the words approximately and average you could probably put together a cost comparison. However, I don't know if you could do the same with the many variations in some of the other systems.

Sue

Is the Housekeeping fee considered in that cost, as that is also required to be paid if you have run out of HK credits. There are a few unlimited HK credits accounts out there still, but those are hard to come by via resales.
 

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There are 4 types of points systems AFAIK. They don't really affect how points are used in regular season usage, except for Home week usage, but they do vary on how MF/point are determined.

Pure Points - this is like the Worldmark system, (parts of the Wyndham are now sold this way and they belong to Club Wyndham Access (CWA)) . Worldmark was set up where only credits are sold and MF is the same for every credit in the system. Some WM memberships have an added fee for a feature called Travelshare.

Bluegreen and Diamond Resorts International are pure points system. Deeds to resort intervals are owned by a not-for-profit trust fund (or a members' association). Point owners own a "beneficial interest" in the trust fund which give them use-rights the intervals held in the trust fund.
 

sue1947

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WorldMark is a Club Membership, not a deeded ownership.

The average account size is 15,000 credits, paying $1088.76 mf in 2017 -- $0.0725/credit.

This makes a 2 bedroom high season cost range $725 - $1050.

(The $0.06/credit level is not reached until owning more than 60,000 credits).

Entry level package is 6,000 credits, but a much better level is 10,000 credits for a more efficient mf cost. Current resale cost is $0.25 - $0.35/credit plus closing costs and $299 transfer fee.

Is the Housekeeping fee considered in that cost, as that is also required to be paid if you have run out of HK credits. There are a few unlimited HK credits accounts out there still, but those are hard to come by via resales.

Both good points. The HK fee for a 2 BR is currently $98 and always goes up. I think we should go with 0.0825/credit to include HK as well. That would put the 2 BR cost at $825-$1200.

Sue
 

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we can be fairly loose with the averages to make it a legitimate comparison.

im sure there are "ways" to get super cheap 2br's in each system that are not really the norm.

ive added the newest data just now, thank you!
 

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Thanks for the direction Jan. I will avoid buying anything in Mexico. But I am trying to get a handle on POINTS. How many Marriott points does it take for an average week in a 1 bedroom? Hyatt? Diamond? Wyndham? WorldMark? (credit to confuse things more). There must be someplace or someone who has done the comparisons before. I have been to Diamond and to Shell (Wyndham).
Don't completely write off vida, maya palace or sea garden. I bought and used it toas a PiC with wyndham, if thats what your interested in. They are a pay on use timeshare so no yearly MFs.

Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk
 

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There are two types of no HK WM Accounts. The first is one of the old grandfathered Accounts from the original days of WM/Club Espirit. These occasionally come up for sale. The second is to have purchased 63,000 or more Developer Points so that the Account is Travelshare Platinum. This second way is a Developer (Wyndham) created Beast and could go away. Also with this second method the no HK Status does not Transfer upon resell. It does transfer if the Account is transferred to certain family mekbers.
 

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I would add Shell Vacations to the table. They have 24 resorts iirc, and I'd put an average 2 bedroom at approx 2k in MF. It varies greatly within the system. They trade with II, and the differences between retail and resale are minor, mostly relating to poor value uses of points, or some free housekeeping type items if you reach their elite levels.

Also, I would switch the developer differences for Hilton to minor, as resale owners can use the points system. Vistana I would probably call major differences, except for the mandatory properties.
 

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first which all should be added, I come up with 9?

Marriott, Hilton, Vistana, Hyatt, Wyndham, Worldmark, Bluegreen, DRI, Disney any others worth adding that I missed?
Might consider adding HIVC as well. With 30 resorts in the system now, it could probably stand with the big dogs. Don't know much about them myself, being a Vistana owner, but I have stayed at one of their properties.
 

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we can be fairly loose with the averages to make it a legitimate comparison.

im sure there are "ways" to get super cheap 2br's in each system that are not really the norm.

ive added the newest data just now, thank you!
To get close to an apples to apples comparison, I would suggest the standard as "One full week stay in a Regular 2 BR in the highest season". Trying to factor in luxury units or stays of less than a week that require additional housekeeping costs adds too much complexity, imo.

A 10,000 credit WorldMark ownership is below the average size, so an owner at this level pays slightly higher mf compared to average. A housekeeping token is included for every 10,000 credits owned. So a WorldMark owner at this level can easily vacation each year in a 10,000 credit/week 2 bedroom unit, for $725 for a full week this year, and never pay for a housekeeping in future years and without using any "tricks". It meets the standard suggested above.

It is an accurate amount for the low end of the range and illustrates what a bargain WorldMark can be. If the chart will not be updated each year for changes in maintenance fees, then the $800-$1200 range will be good for the next 2-3 years.

I think most other points systems are designed to include housekeeping with the first full week stay each year.
 

TUGBrian

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is it reasonable to expect someone buying a run of the mill 10k wm membership is able to reserve a 2br whenever he wants? or is this one of those situations where "its possible to do, just not regularly" or you literally have to be logged in right at the opening of the window to have any chance of getting it?

(note im not arguing, im not familiar with WM at all...id just like to avoid future arguments with the numbers!)
 
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