Hyatt,Marriott Fourseason ,Westin splitting off from II?

[linsj]

I find it funny Hyatt owners pay about $120 for II and it looks like marriott owners pay $89.00 is this correct?? What about the other hotel programs what do you all pay to II?

My HGVC club fee is $90, but I have no idea how much of that goes to RCI since it's not broken out.

 

[dougp26364]

Kal,

You are 1000% correct!!!! RIP OFF!!!!! BIG TIME!!!!


I find it funny Hyatt owners pay about $120 for II and it looks like marriott owners pay $89.00 is this correct?? What about the other hotel programs what do you all pay to II?

Sounds like Hyatt is keeping a lot for themselves!!!!

Bob

Marriott to Marriott exchange fee's are $89. Marriott to non-Marriott exchane fee's are the standard I.I. fee.

Marriott does not include an I.I. membership with it's yearly MF's. Marriott owners have the option to buy a personal membership with I.I. at I.I.'s current prices. One personal membership covers all the resorts I own including non-Marriott resorts.

 

[JoeMid]

I like the way Hilton and Diamond Resorts handle their internal exchanges but, THEY have control over inventory and not the owners. They choose what weeks are given to the exchange company not the owers. Exchange power is essentially equal throughout those two systems or an average of all their resorts based on what they give to the exchange company.

In my estimation Diamond 'exchange power' is a useless term for II. Diamond can get you whatever you want from the bank based on the number of points you want to spend. While Diamond has control over inventory deposited; I believe their agreement with II lets II tell them what II wants/needs and then Diamond negotiates on that before making deposits. This happens on a continual basis and not once per year. Have you seen much KBC deposited in II??

 

[benjaminb13]

I agree with Kal-
Although II does have some great resorts in their exchange system-ans there is a place for these properties- Most are a drop in quality
-Its tough to I think about having to be forced to pay for yearly II and rCI fees-over and over- It just Seems so unfair to pay yearly for something unless you truly exchange into it- Many who own at the major resorts do intra-exchanges-
I really hope the big 5 or 6 are coming together to meet on this- /this may force II and RCI tp remove their yearly MFs
Then it makes more sense to the consumers-

 

[benjaminb13]

Yes, the lucky winner can have the fish net model to display in his/her bay window if that is their wish.

Charles

Beautifull!

 

[MULTIZ321]

Carmel -

The original owners of II were two individuals who formed it - way back in 1976. They had no affiliation with any of the hotel companies. One of the individuals left II in the early 1980s and sold his interest to Leaguestar, a London-based investment holding company.

Dave,

For some reason I seem to think that one of the founders of II was part of a husband-wife team that started RCI. The couple eventually divorced, and one of the pair became one of the co-founders of II. Now, I don't know if this senario is accurate - the details are hazy. However, I'm sure you or another informed Tugger will clarify.

Thanks

Richard

 

[kkan]

I don't own Marriott, but have exchanged into them via II 5 times. I am wondering why Marriott owners are unhappy with II. I thought the Marriott exchanges I got were fair trades for all involved parties. At face value, many trades appear to be down-trades for Marriott owners (higher purchase price and higher MF), but I don't believe this is true. Marriott tends to offer surplus inventory mostly in slower seasons to II. In addition, II exchangers in general get the undesireable locations within Marriott resorts. Some Marriotts will try to honor room requests for exchangers in low season, others (e.g. Ocean Pointe) will give you an undesireable room location even in slow season.

Marriott resorts seem to me to be built with a relatively large number of undesireable rooms (bad location/no view). In addition, there seem to a large number of owners fighting for decent rooms. The leftovers that exchangers get don't have that high a trade value. In other words, a lower ranked resort in II can compare very favorably with a higher ranked Marriott that will give you a less-desireable room.

If an exchange is created with multiple high end hotel chains, prime inventory will have to be surrendered by Marriott and the other brands. The inventory currently given to II exchangers will not be adequate. I don't think Marriott owners who are already desperately fighting for good rooms will be happy seeing prime rooms disappear to exchangers. Otherwise, the new exchange will be similar to II, handling surplus and less-desireable inventory. Marriott owners will still think that they are down-trading (e.g. trading an OF Marriott for a Hyatt less-desireable room).

 

[taffy19]

The Hyatt Interval membership is also exclusive to Hyatt. I can't add on any of my non-Hyatt timeshares into the II membership. Ultra rip-off!

I agree, that it is an ultra rip-off!

One big PLUS for the Marriott because we can do it and we do not have to belong to II. We got our II original membership through them and, recently, I extended II for two more years for a good price ($84, I believe) and added one of our other timeshares too. We may never exchange but it is available to us for several more years so I took advantage of this good deal.

I don't like the idea at all that some of the developers make it mandatory to join because not everyone wants to exchange.

 

[Dave M]

For some reason I seem to think that one of the founders of II was part of a husband-wife team that started RCI. The couple eventually divorced, and one of the pair became one of the co-founders of II.

I don't think so, Richard. But you are on the right track! The RCI-II connection came only a year after one of the RCI founder's sold her ownership.

Christel and Jon DeHaan started RCI - the first exchange company - in 1974. They divorced in 1989, long after II was started, and Christel became the sole owner of RCI. In 1996 she sold the company to Hospitality Franchise Systems, which merged a year later in 1997 with CUC International. It was that merger that would have brought RCI and II under the same ownership umbrella, thus requiring the divestiture of II.

II was founded by Thomas J. Davis, Jr. and Mario Rodriguez in 1976.

 

[MULTIZ321]

Dave,

Thanks for the update and clarification!


Richard

 

[Kal]

...Marriott tends to offer surplus inventory mostly in slower seasons to II. In addition, II exchangers in general get the undesireable locations within Marriott resorts. Some Marriotts will try to honor room requests for exchangers in low season, others (e.g. Ocean Pointe) will give you an undesireable room location even in slow season.

Marriott resorts seem to me to be built with a relatively large number of undesireable rooms (bad location/no view). In addition, there seem to a large number of owners fighting for decent rooms. The leftovers that exchangers get don't have that high a trade value. In other words, a lower ranked resort in II can compare very favorably with a higher ranked Marriott that will give you a less-desireable room.

If an exchange is created with multiple high end hotel chains, prime inventory will have to be surrendered by Marriott and the other brands. The inventory currently given to II exchangers will not be adequate. I don't think Marriott owners who are already desperately fighting for good rooms will be happy seeing prime rooms disappear to exchangers. Otherwise, the new exchange will be similar to II, handling surplus and less-desireable inventory. Marriott owners will still think that they are down-trading (e.g. trading an OF Marriott for a Hyatt less-desireable room).

You make a number of interesting points that make me scratch my head. My basic feeling is that the Hotel chains always WIN. Hyatt is in a cat-bird seat because of the way the program is structured. With ownership of a specific unit and a points based system Hyatt can pick and choose what units are provided to Interval (or any other exchange protocol). It would be very rare that a HVC owner choosing to exchange into Interval would have his/her unit deposited into the exchange pool. Hyatt selects units which will be provided for exchange. In any case, there is no financial risk to the HVC owners as maintenance fees have already been paid for all the units owned by HVC members. However, the advantage is to the developer who has the option (even though very unlikely) to "dump" any unsold units into Interval. Other profitably options are available so this would be a last resort.

On the assumption that few Hyatt owners exchange into Interval, we have owners paying for a system where the prime beneficiary in the relationship with Interval is an outlet for the developer to dump unsold inventory. (Yes, some Hyatt owners do exchange into Interval, but not many).

Non-Hyatt owners in Interval are attracted by the notion that they can exchange a Mugwumps unit into a Hyatt unit which sells for north of $100K. It's all mirrors as noted above as Hyatt determines which units are delivered to Interval. Interval will get low-cost Hyatt resort units but NEVER Aspen, Beaver Creek, Northstar or any other high-end resorts.

So the HVC owners are required to pay Interval fees to support developer profitability.

 

[Carmel85]

You make a number of interesting points that make me scratch my head. My basic feeling is that the Hotel chains always WIN. Hyatt is in a cat-bird seat because of the way the program is structured. With ownership of a specific unit and a points based system Hyatt can pick and choose what units are provided to Interval (or any other exchange protocol). It would be very rare that a HVC owner choosing to exchange into Interval would have his/her unit deposited into the exchange pool. Hyatt selects units which will be provided for exchange. In any case, there is no financial risk to the HVC owners as maintenance fees have already been paid for all the units owned by HVC members. However, the advantage is to the developer who has the option (even though very unlikely) to "dump" any unsold units into Interval. Other profitably options are available so this would be a last resort.

On the assumption that few Hyatt owners exchange into Interval, we have owners paying for a system where the prime beneficiary in the relationship with Interval is an outlet for the developer to dump unsold inventory. (Yes, some Hyatt owners do exchange into Interval, but not many).

Non-Hyatt owners in Interval are attracted by the notion that they can exchange a Mugwumps unit into a Hyatt unit which sells for north of $100K. It's all mirrors as noted above as Hyatt determines which units are delivered to Interval. Interval will get low-cost Hyatt resort units but NEVER Aspen, Beaver Creek, Northstar or any other high-end resorts.

So the HVC owners are required to pay Interval fees to support developer profitability.

Kal,

You are 100% correct!!!! Hyatt only gives II junk week Silver or lower weeks in regards to the Hyatt system. I know this is true of the Hyatt lake tahoe property because we as owners questioned this at our annual meeting.

I love your updated website and so do many of our friends MANY MANY THANKS for your expertise in the HYATT system!!!

Bob

 

[dougp26364]

You make a number of interesting points that make me scratch my head. My basic feeling is that the Hotel chains always WIN. Hyatt is in a cat-bird seat because of the way the program is structured. With ownership of a specific unit and a points based system Hyatt can pick and choose what units are provided to Interval (or any other exchange protocol). It would be very rare that a HVC owner choosing to exchange into Interval would have his/her unit deposited into the exchange pool. Hyatt selects units which will be provided for exchange. In any case, there is no financial risk to the HVC owners as maintenance fees have already been paid for all the units owned by HVC members. However, the advantage is to the developer who has the option (even though very unlikely) to "dump" any unsold units into Interval. Other profitably options are available so this would be a last resort.

On the assumption that few Hyatt owners exchange into Interval, we have owners paying for a system where the prime beneficiary in the relationship with Interval is an outlet for the developer to dump unsold inventory. (Yes, some Hyatt owners do exchange into Interval, but not many).

Non-Hyatt owners in Interval are attracted by the notion that they can exchange a Mugwumps unit into a Hyatt unit which sells for north of $100K. It's all mirrors as noted above as Hyatt determines which units are delivered to Interval. Interval will get low-cost Hyatt resort units but NEVER Aspen, Beaver Creek, Northstar or any other high-end resorts.

So the HVC owners are required to pay Interval fees to support developer profitability.

Kal,

You are 100% correct!!!! Hyatt only gives II junk week Silver or lower weeks in regards to the Hyatt system. I know this is true of the Hyatt lake tahoe property because we as owners questioned this at our annual meeting.

I love your updated website and so do many of our friends MANY MANY THANKS for your expertise in the HYATT system!!!

Bob

Sounds as if Hyatt or any of the other "big 5" would have little reason to form any sort of internal exchange between them. Especially if the only weeks that get put into an exchange system outside the hotel chains own internal system is "junk" weeks.

I know I have very little interest in joining my Marriot and HGVC weeks up with Hyatt if all Hyatt is likely to release are the worst of the worst weeks.

 

[Carmel85]

Sounds as if Hyatt or any of the other "big 5" would have little reason to form any sort of internal exchange between them. Especially if the only weeks that get put into an exchange system outside the hotel chains own internal system is "junk" weeks.

I know I have very little interest in joining my Marriot and HGVC weeks up with Hyatt if all Hyatt is likely to release are the worst of the worst weeks.[/QUOTE

DougP,

Worst of the Worst thats a little much!!!!

Hyatt only gives out what hyatt gets in return. I see this happen in Lake tahoe Hyatt tahoe give out September 1-Dec 18 but Marriott also does the same thing in lake tahoe(south shore).

Fall and spring weeks are easy to get for us hyatt owners wanting marriott and so is hyatt for marriott owners.

Marriott never give out summer or winter weeks it is just what the big companies do.

bob

 

[Dave M]

Your statements regarding Marriott weeks are not accurate. A Marriott owner can reserve any specific week during the season in which he/she owns and deposit that specific week with II.

Doug stated it accurately. Why should he give up his great Marriott weeks if he might only have "junk" weeks to choose from in return?

 

[Carmel85]

Your statements regarding Marriott weeks are not accurate. A Marriott owner can reserve any specific week during the season in which he/she owns and deposit that specific week with II.

Doug stated it accurately. Why should he give up his great Marriott weeks if he might only have "junk" weeks to choose from in return?

Im talking about marriott owners trying to get Hyatt and Hyatt owners trying to get marriott !!!! OFF SEASON ONLY that is the fact my friend!!!

These are the fact and Im correct because I know the Hyatt system and how it works inside and out.

We as Hyatt owners dont care to much about II because we have a great product but it gets frustration for Hyatt,marriott and other 5 star Hotel resorts dont trade better between themselves (off season only and no prime time). Any of theses companies can hold back any week they wish through II and give out any week though II these are the fact my friends. We as owners just have to play with the rules.

 

[The Conch Man]

This is only my opinion & I'm not trying to disagree with what you say but do try to understand the subject matter ~ I know you post on the other HVC forum in Yahoo but I'm not trying to start an argument with you ~

I'm talking about Marriott owners trying to get Hyatt and Hyatt owners trying to get Marriott !!!! OFF SEASON ONLY that is the fact my friend!!!

That's not a true statement, its not off season! Both of the chains are trying to get what ever is available but Hyatt doesn't offer that good of change nor do I believe Marriott does in some aspects during "prime season" & I don't think your name is Bob.


These are the fact and I'm correct because I know the Hyatt system and how it works inside and out.

You might know the Hyatt system but you need to be careful of what ya say!

We as Hyatt owners don't care to much about II because we have a great product but it gets frustration for Hyatt, Marriott and other 5 star Hotel resorts don't trade better between themselves (off season only and no prime time). Any of theses companies can hold back any week they wish through II and give out any week though II these are the fact my friends. We as owners just have to play with the rules.

You are right in Hyatt owners don't really care but their are some owners in the system who do care. Facts are relative to this subject in hand but understand this is not the objective of Hyatt.

 

[Dave M]

Any of theses companies can hold back any week they wish through II and give out any week though II these are the fact my friend.

That may be true for Hyatt and some others, but not for Marriott. Marriott cannot "hold back any week they wish". The individual owners can and do reserve the best weeks and, individually, they decide whether to deposit those reserved weeks into II. Many Marriott owners do just that.

If you disagree, you either do not understand Marriott or you mean something other than what your chosen words say. Help me out by saying it differently if you disagree.

My purpose in commenting is not to be difficult, but rather to ensure that those who might be interested in Marriott don't get a false impression of how the Marriott system works.

 

[saturn28]

You are correct. I always phone into the Marriott desk at Interval World and ask the agent which weeks are they offering bonus weeks for. Once they let me know I call into Marriott Owner Services and see if I can reserve one of those weeks to deposit.

 

[benjaminb13]

This is only my opinion & I'm not trying to disagree with what you say but do try to understand the subject matter ~ I know you post on the other HVC forum in Yahoo but I'm not trying to start an argument with you ~

I dont get it Conch Man
Why are you stating that Carmel needs to be careful about what he says
were not the "Forum Police"

 

[benjaminb13]

That may be true for Hyatt and some others, but not for Marriott. Marriott cannot "hold back any week they wish". The individual owners can and do reserve the best weeks and, individually, they decide whether to deposit those reserved weeks into II. Many Marriott owners do just that.

If you disagree, you either do not understand Marriott or you mean something other than what your chosen words say. Help me out by saying it differently if you disagree.

My purpose in commenting is not to be difficult, but rather to ensure that those who might be interested in Marriott don't get a false impression of how the Marriott system works.

I think the good thing about Marriott owners is at least you are not forced to pay MFs for II- Its really a pain for Hyatt owners though

 

[Carmel85]

That may be true for Hyatt and some others, but not for Marriott. Marriott cannot "hold back any week they wish". The individual owners can and do reserve the best weeks and, individually, they decide whether to deposit those reserved weeks into II. Many Marriott owners do just that.

If you disagree, you either do not understand Marriott or you mean something other than what your chosen words say. Help me out by saying it differently if you disagree.

My purpose in commenting is not to be difficult, but rather to ensure that those who might be interested in Marriott don't get a false impression of how the Marriott system works.

Dave,

You are correct Marriott to Marriott,Hyatt to Hyatt NO hold back but when marriott wants Hyatt and hyatt wants marriott there is a hold back of weeks.

Call your II number and see if you get any Hyatt time? When Hyatt owners look for Marriott time we only seem to see off time for Marriott Spring and Fall weeks (this is for Lake tahoe only) other Marriott resorts like Pal Springs are all off season. Im sorry but this is what we see using II.

I do hope this clears things up in my words.

 

[saturn28]

I own both Hyatt and Marriott and when I do a search with my Hyatt week I see the same resorts as when I search with my Marriott week. There are some additional dates I see with the Marriott week but really it isn't much difference.

Doing a search with Hyatt I can see winter weeks at Marriotts in Aruba, Palm Springs, Hawaii, Scottsdale Arizona, Las Vegas, Spain, all the Marriott resorts in Orlando, and numerous other locations. However, If I search using my Marriott week I don't see any Hyatt resorts.

Basically if you own with Hyatt you have very good access to all the Marriott resorts. I was surprised when I first saw this.

 

[Kal]

...Marriott cannot "hold back any week they wish". The individual owners can and do reserve the best weeks and, individually, they decide whether to deposit those reserved weeks into II. Many Marriott owners do just that...

Dave - Am I understanding correctly that Marriott owners deposit their owned weeks directly into Interval? If so, that is totally different than the way the Hyatt program is configured.

With Hyatt, an owner using the Interval exchange option is not involved in the decision as to the unit provided to Interval. The compensation to Interval is a unit selected by HVC from the pool of units deposited by the membership as a whole.

Thus, Hyatt can provide Interval with low-grade units if they so desire and as allowed by the Hyatt-Interval Contract Agreement.

This would indicate that Marriott owners (and all other Interval members) would be at a disadvantage in trying to obtain a quality Hyatt unit thru Interval. On the contrary, Hyatt owners would have much better success in obtaining a quality Marriott unit.

 

[Carmel85]

Saturn

Try to look at lake tahoe resort for marriott or Hyatt do you see anything in the different systems?

I would love to know this answer.

Kal you are 100% correct.