I sold my timeshare!

[mstoyanov]

Denise,

I am not agreeing with you - I am saying that ALL big outlets on EBay ultimately takes possession of the timeshare on their name. The are divided in 2 groups oh HOW they do it:
1st Group - like the "CHEYENNE CROSSING LLC"/"Francis Trips LLC" and similar takes ownership immediately after they receive money from the original owner.
And then they try to find another buyer. This type of outlets pay for 2 recordings.

2nd Group - Asks buyers to sign an empty deed and start trying to find a buyer (even for $1 + free $300 gift card) and if they find one they fill his name on the empty deed and record it. If they can not find a buyer in a specific time they fill the name of one of their own LLCs on the empty deed and then record that deed. But ultimately they also take possession of the deed. The difference in 2nd group versus the 1st one is that they save on 1 recording fee (since they do closing themselves) but they get exposed to liability to be sued as a broker without license since they are technically selling 3rd party timeshares (though they are mostly associated with brokers in several states so they again skirt on the edge of the law).

2 Years ago there was one outlet on EBay that was operating with POA only but last year they also switched to the model of the 2nd group.

So ultimately all big PCC outlets on EBay gets possession of the deeds as promised to the original owners. They also try to maintain good EBay feedback so they try to make buyers happy too. And by keeping original owners and buyers happy there is no one that can testify against them in a criminal case. Yes they overcharge for their services the original owners but overcharging is not a crime and lies that they feed to original owners on presentations are difficult to prove in court (same story as the developer sellers - what is on the contract is all that there is in real estate transactions).

It appears that you are agreeing with me. I said that many of the ebay sellers do not transfer the deeds into their names, and you are saying you have a list of which ones do and do not. Isn't that the same thing?

 

[timeos2]

I just wanted to mention that I had listed one of our timeshares at www. [link removed - it is NOT recommended] and that was before I realized that I shouldn't be paying an upfront fee. But, I had negotiated it down quite a bit.

Anyhow, long story short, my husband and I divorced this year and Timeshare Adventures processed the quit claim deeds on our three joint timeshares, applying the fee I had originally paid to closing costs.

Using the company was efficient and cost-effective (in my opinion) because the total for processing 3 timeshare quit claim deeds, with TA doing all the work, was $1,000 and that was because one of the resorts charged $200 for processing the name change instead of a typical $30 or $50.

NOTE: I am not affiliated with Timeshare Adventures.

Thanx for listening!

Michelle

Have you independently verified that the week was in fact legally transferred & that owner has now paid any fees due? If not then you may be in for a very nasty surprise when the default is discoverd and they look for the true owner. Hopefully you did get the service promised but if not you have no recourse (try t et the PCC to respond - lots of luck!)

It is a risk I would never take and cannot recommend to any owner.

 

[timeos2]

Far from first choice but a true option

I never suggested that someone should go into foreclosure - but if they are at the point of bankruptcy anyway, the timeshare will be part of the bankruptcy.

If someone is rich, they have no business in going into foreclosure on their timeshare, IMNSHO.

No one should recommend foreclosure as a preferred method to get out from a timeshare BUT it is a far better answer than any PCC can offer. It is legal, it is available to all and it puts to rest the idea that any timeshare is an obligation for life+ as the PCC's want you to believe.

It isn't as bad a process as some would think. Especially a foreclosure for fees is a relatively minor blip on an otherwise god credit report. It is not the same as a home foreclosure or even the principal on a timeshare but it is a credit report hit. Again nothing is without any consequence and a timeshare foreclosure is no exception. But that is far cheaper, guaranteed legal way out if in fact you've tried everything else & failed. Remember too that the chances are good that the resort will, when push comes to shove & foreclosure is the only real option left, offer to accept the deed back to avoid that credit hit & save the resort the cost of foreclosure. It is not a sure thing but a much better risk than any PCC. In any case non-payment of fees/foreclosure should be a very past choice but it is a real & economic way to go if required. Don't take it lightly but don't dismiss it in favor of a far more costly, potentially illegal and non-guaranteed PCC.

NEVER DEAL WITH PCC's ! NEVER.

 

[mstoyanov]

Actually I was arguing that all of the big PCCs that operate on EBay do in fact take possession as promised to the original owners.
Would I recommend them - of course NO!
$3K is definitely not worthy for what they offer for me (and in fact they charge more than $3k from what I heard).
But they are here to stay - they have very profitable business and have studied the legal ramifications of their actions.
And the only effective way for resorts to deal with them is to attack their pockets by providing same "exit strategy" to owners that want out of their timeshares. Hoping that someone (DAs, Developers or Fairy Godmother) will remove them is not a responsible action from resort HOAs.
And I will never blame the poor owners that pay big bucks to them for trying to get rid of something that they do not want.

IF they do then that is a plus for them (and rare in the PCC world).

Does that mean they should be recommended / used? NO!!! They still want $3K PLUS for what an owner can do exactly the same thing for themselves for little or no cost. That is simply too high a price to pay for a questionable "service" - I cannot say it is worth anything close to $3K - more like $500 TOPS!.

So do not use any upfront fee company. That includes the ultimate upfront fees of every PCC known to exist. Being slightly better than othersat not scamming does make a reliable or trustworthy company out of pone based on deception and potential fraud from its inception. DO NOT USE PCC's!

 

[timeos2]

Denise,

I am not agreeing with you - I am saying that ALL big outlets on EBay ultimately takes possession of the timeshare on their name. The are divided in 2 groups oh HOW they do it:

You are ignoring the third and very prevalent option a PCC may employ - NEVER transferring the week and abandoning it. All too common and the original owner may be on the hook despite the fees paid & not even know it (yet). Not a risk worth taking.

 

[DeniseM]

Just because you have the money for something, doesn't mean its a smart economic decision for you...

As I've already stated in this thread, I do not agree with the position that this is only an economic decision. I believe in personal responsibility in everything I do - financial or not. YMMV

 

[Ridewithme38]

You are ignoring the third and very prevalent option a PCC may employ - NEVER transferring the week and abandoning it. All too common and the original owner may be on the hook despite the fees paid & not even know it (yet). Not a risk worth taking.

You don't think your a little overplaying this? With hundreds of PCC owned TS's on Ebay and thousands more across various resorts...It would seem your belief is ALOT less common then you think

 

[timeos2]

And I will never blame the poor owners that pay big bucks to them for trying to get rid of something that they do not want.

The "poor owners" made a decision to buy into resort X. If that didn't work out for them that is too bad but it remains up to them to handle it NOT the resorts. The legal system stands behind the resorts on that.

PCC 's are a bad choice as they offer no guarantees and plenty of potential problems. I'm very glad to see you don't recommend using them. No one should.

 

[timeos2]

You don't think your a little overplaying this? With hundreds of PCC owned TS's on Ebay and thousands more across various resorts...It would seem your belief is ALOT less common then you think

Real life experience at many resorts - as I've seen and have been reported by respected publications like Timesharing Today & even ARDA - tell the tale that many are suffering from recently discovered blocks of time transferred to these PCC"s by the owners but never transferred and/or PAID for by the PCC. As there is a good chance this was a planned default it starts to become a serious legal question and not "overplayed". It has taken some time for the problem to become noticeable but now that it has been identified far too many resorts are finding the names of the culprits on the books or owners who show as unpaid that claim to have "sold" to PCC's. It is a big problem and a scam. DON"T DEAL WITH ANY PCC's.

 

[Ridewithme38]

The "poor owners" made a decision to buy into resort X. If that didn't work out for them that is too bad but it remains up to them to handle it NOT the resorts. The legal system stands behind the resorts on that.

PCC 's are a bad choice as they offer no guarantees and plenty of potential problems. I'm very glad to see you don't recommend using them. No one should.

Anything is a better option then the MAJOR Gash a Foreclosure puts on your credit....You've obviously never worked in the financial field Timeos....Its nice to see someone talking for the side of the Resort and Developers...But on behalf of the owners, i'd just like to say...ANYTHING is better then Foreclosure

 

[TUGBrian]

You don't think your a little overplaying this? With hundreds of PCC owned TS's on Ebay and thousands more across various resorts...It would seem your belief is ALOT less common then you think

perhaps you should run some numbers, get some facts...then form your opinion vs just "guessing" off what youve noticed on ebay.

we would all be interested in seeing factual data, vs speculation.

 

[timeos2]

Anything is a better option then the MAJOR Gash a Foreclosure puts on your credit....You've obviously never worked in the financial field Timeos....Its nice to see someone talking for the side of the Resort and Developers...But on behalf of the owners, i'd just like to say...ANYTHING is better then Foreclosure

As you should be aware of by now the DEVELOPER and the resort are two unrelated entities. I have over 35 years in finance/IS before my retirement and have been far more involved than I ever though possible in timeshare/HOA finances as well as personal.

Yes, a foreclosure is a bad report to have on your credit. NO a foreclosure for HOA fees unpaid is NOT a negative at the level of a mortgage or home foreclosure. A fee foreclosure is a relatively minor infraction which, on an otherwise good report, will have little or no impact. Saying it is a drastic , life altering (as in a bankruptcy) is giving false information and again the type of fear instilled by the very PCC's we're discussing.

Stop trying to defend the indefensible & join me in my one and only view. Every owner at every timeshare should be fairly represented by their Board members, the Association exists solely to operate & maintain the resort to the best standards possible and every owner needs to be treated equally and fairly. The PCC's aren't helping owners but only themselves at the cost of owners - both those that pay them AND the owners of the affected resorts that have to cover the fees for those defaulted weeks.

Use the laws to handle an unwanted timeshare in an ethical and legal fashion and all is well. Use the questionable tactics of a PCC at great expense and you may find a far greater problem than you started with when all done.

DO NOT DEAL WITH PCC's. NEVER.

 

[equitax]

Probably one of the only things that the HOA's don't have covered

As someone who has read through all the documentation (Developer statements, Condo docs, etc.) the ONLY thing that I haven't noticed (which is surprising) is that there does not appear to be any offset clause - which would allow the HOA to move the debt around between units owned by a common owner - thus precipitating foreclosures on the good and the bad in one's portfolio of TS interests.

One thing I don't agree with here though, is that many seem to say, just let it foreclose - minor hit on the credit report. This may very well be true in the USA, but nothing is to say that this is the only avenue of recourse available to the HOA. The HOA could manage their collections a little more aggressively and probably write off less. But again, no incentive to the HOA to do that because the owners that love their resorts shut their mouths and pay the extra 100 a year in MF because of the deadbeats.

 

[mstoyanov]

So once they made a poor decision they should carry it on their necks till the end of their life?
That is exactly the attitude that is not only not helping to solve the problem but pushing old peoples in the arms of PCCs
When they contact the HOA and being told to "own" their bad decision they made in the past and not offer any solution to them that will only validate their decision to go with PCCs and will cost remaining owners like me even more MFs.
That is NOT the attitude that I want my resorts HOAs to have when dealing with people desperate to bail - BOD should do their best to get any money they can from these owners and to avoid costly foreclosure of such week.
What exactly do you win for your resort when you push such owner in the arms of PCCs? Not only you do not collect the $3k he/she is going to give to the PCCs but then you need to spend good money chasing the bankrupted LLC to get your non paying weeks back.
I can see this type of attitude from HOAs that are still in developer control - they still have to "protect the illusion" that these weeks are valuable so that developer can continue to sell them for huge $, but such attitude from owner controlled HOA should not be acceptable.

The "poor owners" made a decision to buy into resort X. If that didn't work out for them that is too bad but it remains up to them to handle it NOT the resorts. The legal system stands behind the resorts on that.

PCC 's are a bad choice as they offer no guarantees and plenty of potential problems. I'm very glad to see you don't recommend using them. No one should.

 

[LindaLee]

So why is it a problem if a person leaves the timeshare to the resort. Even if the resort does not take it why would the estate have to deal with it. I have had so many answers to this question that I am going to make a call to an estate attorney tomorrow and see what their answer is.

Hi -- Here is an example of this situation. The owner has a will that leaves his timeshare to the resort and then everything else is divided between his son and daugther. The resort disclaims the timeshare - the timeshare is then back in the estate and goes to the next in line under the will - which would be the son and daughter. The executor can try to sell the timeshare and distribute the proceeds to the son and daughter or they own it together. So the daughter disclaims her share. Now the son owns the whole thing. So he disclaims his share. My understanding is that you are then into the intestacy statute (i.e. when some dies w/o a will) - so the next relative in the line of succession in the statute would get the timeshare. It does not simply go away. If the person dies with a will, the will dictates what goes where - and there is always a "residual clause" (i.e. x and/or Y will get everything not specifically devised to a specific beneficiary under the will) where the timeshare will end up if the person it is specifically left to disclaims it. I hope this is helpful.

 

[timeos2]

So once they made a poor decision they should carry it on their necks till the end of their life?
That is exactly the attitude that is not only not helping to solve the problem but pushing old peoples in the arms of PCCs
When they contact the HOA and being told to "own" their bad decision they made in the past and not offer any solution to them that will only validate their decision to go with PCCs and will cost remaining owners like me even more MFs.
That is NOT the attitude that I want my resorts HOAs to have when dealing with people desperate to bail - BOD should do their best to get any money they can from these owners and to avoid costly foreclosure of such week.
What exactly do you win for your resort when you push such owner in the arms of PCCs? Not only you do not collect the $3k he/she is going to give to the PCCs but then you need to spend good money chasing the bankrupted LLC to get your non paying weeks back.
I can see this type of attitude from HOAs that are still in developer control - they still have to "protect the illusion" that these weeks are valuable so that developer can continue to sell them for huge $, but such attitude from owner controlled HOA should not be acceptable.

Every owner that contacts one of my resorts where I own/serve as a BOD Member gets PLENTY of legal options when they feel they no longer want or can no longer afford their ownership.

• Post your week for sale for FREE on the resort web site. We get an incredible amount of sales from that as the people looking are after an ownership at that resort &, if priced right, are easily sold. The average time on the site for those that follow aggressive pricing is under 3 months.
• Post your resale offer on TUG or any of the many Timesgare related web sites. Responses there are also usually good -mprovided you are aggressive and reasonable in your pricing.
• Post your ownership on eBay or other general purpose sites. Very good response there but low prices in most cases.
• Contact friends, relatives, neighbors - especially those nthat have been to the resort - they may be very interested in gettin an inexpensive resale from a trusted source.

There are more but you get the idea. The one thing I cannot figure out is the often found reluctance of owners to list their sale price LOW to get a quick sale. Then this same group - who refuse to "give away my timeshare" have actually turned around and PAID $3K or more to "give away the timeshare". What kind of sense does that make? A free give away would be far cheaper & less risky yet they don't do that & CHOOSE instead to take a risky, costly "pay to lay" sale that may not even be legitimate. I cannot figure people out sometimes.

As for value it is not to "protect the illusion" that these weeks are valuable but rather to protect the paying owners which is the number 1 charge accepting a Board position encompasses. As to the idea that BOD's "pull a Marriott" (referring to the recent, outrageous post about the Board at a foreign resort) its because itmis so uncommon and totally against the rules that it makes news! The vast majority of HOA's - even those nwith Developer ties - try to be a above board & honest. When they aren't there are plenty of checks & balances in place in the system to catch them & correct the situation. It is one no owner should have to deal with and keeping an eye on the Board, voting & participating in the process is your best way to make sure things are on the up & up. Using one isolated case to justify sticking your resort/fellow owners with your mistake in judgement is hardly a good plan.

Bottom line - DO NOT DEAL WITH PCC's. They hurt you, your resort and all owners by their actions. Do not be part of the scam - use the many tools available to legally deal with your situation. You'll be happier, safer and everyone comes out ahead when tings are handled correctly.

 

[timeos2]

So once they made a poor decision they should carry it on their necks till the end of their life?

Oh, missed this one. No one is forced to accept a timeshare - willed to them or not. But the estate IS required to properly dispose of it - through sale, gift whatever - until they do the estate is not closed. Ultimately the week will be foreclosed on if it remains unpaid by the estate.

 

[mlwlpt]

Could you define PCC,s
Thank you

 

[DeniseM]

Could you define PCC,s
Thank you

Postcard company - A timeshare related company that sends out postcards promising to take your timeshare off your hands. When you attend a meeting with them, you find out they want $2,000 or more to do so.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Postcard company - A timeshare related company that sends out postcards promising to take your timeshare off your hands. When you attend a meeting with them, you find out they want $2,000 or more to do so.

We need a hug smiley!! That was a near perfect definition! TY Denise! (i just would have change it to 'you find out they want a large amount of money to do so')

 

[timeos2]

Could you define PCC,s
Thank you

Post Card companies. So named as they often make initial contact with a deceptive post card mailed to timeshare owners (deception from the very start - nice start, huh?) suggesting they BUY the timeshare when in fact they ask to be paid an incredible amount of $3000+ to TAKE the timeshare. And even that they don't guarantee (not that any guarantee from a deceptive group would have any value any way) that they will in fact transfer / sell the timeshare to a new, willing owner. They will make "best efforts" and if it doesn't happen then - oh, well, it's ONLY $3K wasted. What did you expect from a deceptive organization that may plan to abandon the property from the start and really only wants your $3K. The rest is unknown and you have little or no recourse. DON'T EVEN TRY TO DEAL WITH THESE GROUPS!

 

[Ridewithme38]

Post Card companies. So named as they often make initial contact with a deceptive post card mailed to timeshare owners (deception from the very start - nice start, huh?) suggesting they BUY the timeshare when in fact they ask to be paid an incredible amount of $3000+ to TAKE the timeshare. And even that they don't guarantee (not that any guarantee from a deceptive group would have any value any way) that they will in fact transfer / sell the timeshare to a new, willing owner. They will make "best efforts" and if it doesn't happen then - oh, well, it's ONLY $3K wasted. What did you expect from a deceptive organization that may plan to abandon the property from the start and really only wants your $3K. The rest is unknown and you have little or no recourse. DON'T EVEN TRY TO DEAL WITH THESE GROUPS!

Haha....

 

[AwayWeGo]

Junk Mail Escalation.

Postcard company - A timeshare related company that sends out postcards promising to take your timeshare off your hands.

The junk mail I've been receiving lately from those types comes in envelopes.

Apparently business is so good that they've taken it up a notch beyond mere postcards.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[rickandcindy23]

The junk mail I've been receiving from those types lately comes in envelopes.

Apparently business is so good that they've taken it up a notch beyond mere postcards.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

You took the words right off of my typewriter.

I get lots of them, because I buy from the PCC's. I bought one from Memorable Vacations, which is also a PCC by another name (don't know what), and the owners wanted to get rid of the Gold Crown Sheraton 2 bed in Myrtle Beach, week 27. Nagged the guy for about six weeks to get the deed filed to me, he kept saying he would do it, then he just kinda forgot. I dropped it over the holidays and while we were in Hawaii, then California.

He got a call about a month ago from the former owners saying, "Hey, I thought you were going to get this thing out of my name," or some such thing, because they were angry about the constant calls from Starwood, along with bills and late fees.

What happens to his weeks that he cannot sell? Hmmm??? I think I know. He deeded it from the owner to me directly. NO second closing. He takes zero responsibility for doing anything. I hope those people are still on his case, because the week is still not recognized by Starwood is mine; although, I did fax them the deed myself. Starwood has no one to bill but them.

 

[timeos2]

The junk mail I've been receiving lately from those types comes in envelopes.

So we perhaps need to rename them ERP's (pronounced URP like the uncomfortable burp they are likely to give you if you deal with them).

Envelope Ripoff Posts.

Nah, PCC still fits and has the negative connotation it is well deserving of.