• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Large DVC Annual Dues Increase for 2019

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
Do you mean that you do pay cash to stay in Marriott hotel rooms but would not pay cash to stay in Marriott timeshares? The cash rates for renting most timeshare condos are generally pretty steep. It seems like it would be easier and a better deal to pay cash for a hotel suite or a special room package than to rent timeshare condos from the management company. I can see someone adding a cash night to a timeshare points stay to avoid moving rooms between two linked reservations though.


So true. :thumbup:

No, I did not mean that at all. These days, I only stay in hotels in places where I can’t use a timeshare. Most of my vacations are planned around using timeshares since I own so many now and all my home resorts are enrolled in MVC. What I meant is sometimes we may go somewhere that does not have timeshares like French Polynesia as an example. In that case, I would lean toward using Expedia or renting through the hotel directly. If there are Marriott affiliated resorts, I would also explore staying at one of these so I can get reward points and other benefits since I am Platinum Premier Elite. I doubt I would ever rent a timeshare since I have so many points programs and other options that I can barely use them all every year.
 

DannyTS

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
5,753
Reaction score
3,076
Points
348
some keep on winning DVC auctions at low prices. Whether they pass ROFR or not is another discussion. Has anyone noticed DVC listings before on Ebay? I do not remember to have seen any until recently.

upload_2018-12-10_22-36-42.png
 

frank808

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
4,177
Reaction score
2,333
Points
448
Location
Marriott Ko Olina Beach Club
Resorts Owned
Disney Vacation Club (Aulani,SSR,VGC,VGF) Hilton Grand Vacation Club(Bay Club, Kohala Suites, The District) Marriott Vacation Club (Aruba Surf Club, Grand Residence, Grand Chateau, Grand Vista,Harbour Lake, KoOlina,Willow Ridge & DC points)
some keep on winning DVC auctions at low prices. Whether they pass ROFR or not is another discussion. Has anyone noticed DVC listings before on Ebay? I do not remember to have seen any until recently.

View attachment 9375
Have seen them on ebay since 2008. That is when I first searched for them. Probably have been listed on Ebay before that.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
some keep on winning DVC auctions at low prices. Whether they pass ROFR or not is another discussion. Has anyone noticed DVC listings before on Ebay? I do not remember to have seen any until recently.

View attachment 9375

You may want to check and see if the eBay auctions are being run by timeshare agents. As I understand, agents get paid their commission even if DVC exercises ROFR. There has been some speculation that these eBay auctions may be run by agents taking advantage of clueless DVC owners. Or perhaps there is some other thing going on. If these eBay auctions are legit, it is likely DVC will exercise ROFR. Most of the eBay listings have tended to be for the resorts that Disney is most likely to exercise ROFR i.e. Saratoga, Old Key West and Animal Kingdom.

Tra3213 is selling all different timeshare brands including the low ball Disney timeshares. He must be an agent. His profile is from June 2018. Also, he has a lot of reviews and they mostly say the same thing: “great service” by the same buyer. I am curious who this seller is.

Great Service! Buyer:
s***r ( 39
iconYellowStar_25x25.gif
)
During past 6 months
-- -- Private
 
Last edited:

DannyTS

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
5,753
Reaction score
3,076
Points
348
You may want to check and see if the eBay auctions are being run by timeshare agents. As I understand, agents get paid their commission even if DVC exercises ROFR. There has been some speculation that these eBay auctions may be run by agents taking advantage of clueless DVC owners. Or perhaps there is some other thing going on. If these eBay auctions are legit, it is likely DVC will exercise ROFR. Most of the eBay listings have tended to be for the resorts that Disney is most likely to exercise ROFR i.e. Saratoga, Old Key West and Animal Kingdom.

Tra3213 is selling all different timeshare brands. He must be an agent.
He is an agent, 100%, i have seen many other listings with this name. However, i have seen other sellers/agents listing DVC on ebay.
I am not sure though that DVC does ROFR 100% of the low prices. It surely wants to create that impression but who knows what the reality is.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
I saw an Animal Kingdom listed on eBay through another seller. The highest bid right now is $10,200 for 250 points. The owner has been past due since April 2018 so the buyer will need to pay all 2018 MFs as well as the 2019 MFs that are due now so this will add about $4000 plus closing costs. It has 250 banked in points and 23 borrowed that the buyer will need to pay for. These points will expire on April 2019 so the new buyer many not have time to use them.

It makes no sense to use eBay to sell since owners could sell through Fidelity Resales and get it sold quickly at a low price. Perhaps there is a reason for some DVC sellers to resort to eBay. It sounds like the owner of this AK contract is distressed. This one appears to be in bankruptcy and may be an estate sale from the description. I wonder if the reputable DVC resellers will not take contracts in bankruptcy or with past due payments.
 
Last edited:

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
Disney does not ROFR 100%. It is more likely to exercise ROFR at Saratoga Springs, Old Key West and Animal Kingdom. No one exercises ROFR 100%. Some contracts always slip through. I just do not understand why a seller would sell for so low when there is an active resale market through reputable DVC brokers. It is harder to sell big contracts so this might be why. I suspect the reputable brokers are not going to want to sell this low because it would affect all their other sales and reputable brokers get a percentage based commission. So perhaps some of these contracts are legit and being sold by distressed sellers. I may bid on one and see what happens!
 
Last edited:

Lisa P

TUG Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,888
Reaction score
416
Points
443
Location
NC
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham Points
Most of the eBay listings have tended to be for the resorts that Disney is most likely to exercise ROFR i.e. Saratoga, Old Key West and Animal Kingdom.
Is this so? Those 3 are the largest, easiest to book resorts. I would have thought that Disney would be most likely to exercise ROFR on the smaller, more popular resorts with limited inventory for sale.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
Is this so? Those 3 are the largest, easiest to book resorts. I would have thought that Disney would be most likely to exercise ROFR on the smaller, more popular resorts with limited inventory for sale.

Yes I posted the link to DVCResaleMarket.com that shows which resorts DVC is most likely to buy back. I suspect DVC does not need to buy back the expensive resorts since they maintain their prices based on supply and demand.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
I just saw another eBay auction for 200 points. It is up to $14,400 now with 72 bidders so far. It is also a distressed seller who is past due on MF payments and it might also be an estate sale. It looks like it is the same seller of the Animal Kingdom contract. Perhaps this is why these people are willing to sell so low. This contract was originally purchased for under $10,000.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
The Animal Kingdom contract went from $10,200 a little while ago to over $17,300 right now. The seller purchased for $19,000. So it seems this seller will make a profit no matter what. The AK contract still has 29 days left for bidding. By the time this closes, it will be too late to use the banked 2018 points so the seller will be paying an additional $2000 for unusable points. The contract opened yesterday at $1000. This contract is now approaching the normal resale price. I would not bid on this one at this point because the risks involved with a bankruptcy would scare me off, unless it were a super cheap contract.
 
Last edited:

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
6,781
Reaction score
9,968
Points
499
Location
Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
Like some people don’t know about the timeshare resale market and buy from the developer, my guess is, some dvc owners don’t relize the value dvc has and they make a call to an agent and lists with them.
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,909
Reaction score
3,581
Points
648
Disney does not ROFR 100%. It is more likely to exercise ROFR at Saratoga Springs, Old Key West and Animal Kingdom. No one exercises ROFR 100%. Some contracts always slip through. I just do not understand why a seller would sell for so low when there is an active resale market through reputable DVC brokers. It is harder to sell big contracts so this might be why. I suspect the reputable brokers are not going to want to sell this low because it would affect all their other sales and reputable brokers get a percentage based commission. So perhaps some of these contracts are legit and being sold by distressed sellers. I may bid on one and see what happens!
I don't think that's what the numbers say. DVC buys back largely to avoid fire sales but also to control prices when they can make a profit. OKW is special because of the extension. There are more sales at OKW, AKV & SSR so there will be more opportunities. Some resorts are also going to be easier to sell and for a higher price. Basically a given resale is likely to be one of those resorts and those resorts will tend to be for a lower price. It's not that their inherently more likely to take those 3 resorts all else being proportional.
 

DannyTS

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
5,753
Reaction score
3,076
Points
348
as we know, the prices of a timeshare can vary quite a bit. I do not know if anyone can say that anything is worth exactly $X. You can buy a week for 2k (not DVC specifically), the next guy is going to pay 5 and the third one 3. Maybe I am exaggerating a bit but i do not think the market is as level as DVC may want us to believe.

Good to know though that people have been buying DVC contracts on Ebay.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
I don't think that's what the numbers say. DVC buys back largely to avoid fire sales but also to control prices when they can make a profit. OKW is special because of the extension. There are more sales at OKW, AKV & SSR so there will be more opportunities. Some resorts are also going to be easier to sell and for a higher price. Basically a given resale is likely to be one of those resorts and those resorts will tend to be for a lower price. It's not that their inherently more likely to take those 3 resorts all else being proportional.

The data posted by DVCResaleMarket.com showed that the percentage of buy backs were much higher at these 3 resorts. I would never base this on the total number since that number is meaningless.
 

DannyTS

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
5,753
Reaction score
3,076
Points
348
The data posted by DVCResaleMarket.com showed that the percentage of buy backs were much higher at these 3 resorts. I would never base this on the total number since that number is meaningless.
how reliable are those numbers?
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
I do not see many DVC contracts on eBay except some that are at the normal resale price and some that are being sold by distressed sellers and those are approaching the normal resale price. I am sure there are always going to be some excellent deals on eBay for all timeshares. I saw some great deals for Marriott and Westin too that are well below the resale prices advertised on Redweek. Personally, I would be very unlikely to buy on eBay unless it were an extremely low priced deal where the benefit is worth the risk.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
how reliable are those numbers?

I posted the link so you can judge for yourself. I don’t know the answer. It is only data for one reputable reseller so it does not represent the entire market. This reseller posts his data every month so it is reliable for his sales but I doubt it represents the entire market.
 

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
6,781
Reaction score
9,968
Points
499
Location
Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
as we know, the prices of a timeshare can vary quite a bit. I do not know if anyone can say that anything is worth exactly $X. You can buy a week for 2k (not DVC specifically), the next guy is going to pay 5 and the third one 3. Maybe I am exaggerating a bit but i do not think the market is as level as DVC may want us to believe.

Good to know though that people have been buying DVC contracts on Ebay.
Exactly, prices vary lots even on the resale market. I always hope I got one of the best prices.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
Exactly, prices vary lots even on the resale market. I always hope I got one of the best prices.

There is a lot of variation in resale prices for DVC. I am not arguing about that at all. All I am saying is if someone is selling for half the lowest resale price on the market, there must be a reason they are willing to sell so low. Even a distressed owner could price 5% below the lowest resale price out there and get a much better price than from an eBay auction and do so very quickly.

If there are any distressed DVC owners reading this, I would recommend selling through Fidelity over eBay. We purchased one of our DVC contracts for less than half the retail price and it was also priced $10-$20 per point less than the next most expensive DVC contracts for this resort. I have seen up to $50+ per point variations in the “normal” DVC resale market depending on contract size and other variables.

If I saw a Marriott or Vistana Maui unit for sale for $0-$1000 on eBay, I would also question why the seller is doing that. For all timeshares, there is an established resale price range. Not just Disney so not sure why Disney is being singled out. I saw a super cheap Marriott Newport Coast Platinum 2 BR on eBay today. The highest bid right now is under $1000. On Redweek, the cheapest equivalent unit is over $8000.
 
Last edited:

DannyTS

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
5,753
Reaction score
3,076
Points
348
There is a lot of variation in resale prices for DVC. I am not arguing about that at all. All I am saying is if someone is selling for half the lowest resale price on the market, there must be a reason they are willing to sell so low. Even a distressed owner could price 5% below the lowest resale price out there and get a much better price than from an eBay auction and do so very quickly.

If there are any distressed DVC owners reading this, I would recommend selling through Fidelity over eBay. We purchased one of our DVC contracts for less than half the retail price and it was also priced $10-$20 per point less than the next most expensive DVC contracts for this resort. I have seen up to $50+ per point variations in the “normal” DVC resale market depending on contract size and other variables.

If I saw a Marriott or Vistana Maui unit for sale for $0-$1000 on eBay, I would also question why the seller is doing that. For all timeshares, there is an established resale price range. Not just Disney so not sure why Disney is being singled out. I saw a super cheap Marriott Newport Coast Platinum 2 BR on eBay today. The highest bid right now is under $1000. On Redweek, the cheapest equivalent unit is over $8000.

I think that you have a very solid point. On the other hand, i have seen at least 10-15 DVC listings on Ebay in the last 2-3 weeks. And I expect the prices on ebay to be cheaper for any timeshare because buyers have to factor in the additional risk. Many Ebay sellers seem to be brokers that do a decent job (although lacking in communication) but the reality is that there is little info on who they are. Maybe Tuggers know a bit more in general but what about the random buyer? Who would send thousands of dollars to a seller they know nothing about?
 

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
6,781
Reaction score
9,968
Points
499
Location
Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
I think that you have a very solid point. On the other hand, i have seen at least 10-15 DVC listings on Ebay in the last 2-3 weeks. And I expect the prices on ebay to be cheaper for any timeshare because buyers have to factor in the additional risk. Many Ebay sellers seem to be brokers that do a decent job (although lacking in communication) but the reality is that there is little info on who they are. Maybe Tuggers know a bit more in general but what about the random buyer? Who would send thousands of dollars to a seller they know nothing about?
You have to be really careful on eBay. I will not bid on a timeshare that will cost me more then $100 unless I know the seller is honest. I have made two purchases in the thousands from the same seller who I find reputable and I just wait until he lists what I am looking for. When it costs me a few dollars I find there is really no risk. I have been fortunate that all my deals from ebays went through with what was promised. My biggest problem has been sometimes it is so slow.
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,909
Reaction score
3,581
Points
648
The data posted by DVCResaleMarket.com showed that the percentage of buy backs were much higher at these 3 resorts. I would never base this on the total number since that number is meaningless.
Maybe I misread it, I didn't see the % or the prices for the more expensive resorts, only the total number of buy backs and the % for 4 resorts. Did I miss the % for VGF, VGC, BWV, BCV, CCV, BRV and Poly?. You'd really have to have all of those pieces to make any true judgements and ultimately the price compared to retail price is likely the most telling. On the surface the obvious answer of why the 4 resorts listed were bought back is almost certainly that the prices were lower, not that DVD wanted them. The only other issue would be for OKW as I mentioned because of the extension.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,092
Reaction score
6,460
Points
499
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
Maybe I misread it, I didn't see the % or the prices for the more expensive resorts, only the total number of buy backs and the % for 4 resorts. Did I miss the % for VGF, VGC, BWV, BCV, CCV, BRV and Poly?. You'd really have to have all of those pieces to make any true judgements and ultimately the price compared to retail price is likely the most telling. On the surface the obvious answer of why the 4 resorts listed were bought back is almost certainly that the prices were lower, not that DVD wanted them. The only other issue would be for OKW as I mentioned because of the extension.

I believe the percentages were there for all the buy backs. If he did not list a resort, it is because he had 0 buybacks. In general, DVC does not exercise ROFR that much. That is what I took away from the report.
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,909
Reaction score
3,581
Points
648
I believe the percentages were there for all the buy backs. If he did not list a resort, it is because he had 0 buybacks. In general, DVC does not exercise ROFR that much. That is what I took away from the report.
I'm still not seeing the % for the other resorts including those with buy backs listed but it really doesn't matter because it really doesn't answer the question at hand, which is based on price.
 
Top