Looking into buying resale 2bdrm OFC at WKORV

[taterhed]

Perhaps try asking for Owner Resolution Services on your next call.
I only make StarOption and II Reservations with my SVV so I have no first hand experience with home resort bookings. I can only tell you what I’ve read on TUG

In the meanwhile, I did some searching on TUG to see if I could find anything else.

• Found another thread about multiweek reservations from 2008 - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-does-svo-determine-availability-for-multiweek-reservations.63701
• Found the thread about the online reservation system from 2014. It’s a long thread and it looks like several folks were asking how to make back to back reservations via the new online system - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...-mystarcentral-com-resv-rules-changes.204170/
• Found a 2015 thread that seem to support that the process may still exist but subsequent bookings may occur too late - https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/booking-consecutive-weeks-no-confirmation.228925/

I was actually looking for a thread with owners upset and ranting about losing their ability to request consecutive reservations in advance but I didn’t find one. If it doesn’t work today, maybe that’s why they never fixed it to book before midnight (not enough complaints and/or not a widely known feature) .

Thanks for the hard work.

I'll try again as you suggested. If it exists.....we'll find it!
Cheers.

 

[VacationFamily]

If I own a OFC, how hard is it to reserve a OFC at 9 pm (pacific time) 12 month mark? I am the vacation planner for the family, so I see myself putting in our reservation every time at the 12 month mark. I am just wondering if I buy a OFD, would I have better odds getting our OFD vs if I own an OFC. I would hate to buy a OFC resale and then have a hard time getting our week in late July / early August or any other time of the year. I know there is only 12 OFC & there is only 24 OFD. I do understand that if I don't reserve at the 12 month mark, then I have to wait for 8 month mark & I get what I get.

 

[mauitraveler]

From my past experience, the summer weeks are not that difficult to reserve, since you might have 6-7 weeks from which to choose. From what I've experienced, the hardest is President's week, followed by the months included in whale watching season. Summer has been the easiest and often weeks have been available for days after the first night of booking. In fact, I still see mid-June OFC availability, perhaps because that's too early for some families depending on their school schedule for 2019.

Also, if the Saturday check-in is fully booked, you can try the next night and see if you can get a Sunday check-in. Continue to check for a few days afterwards too, because someone may decide to cancel. We did that this past February, and were able to book our OF at WKORV. Of course, the upper floors were all reserved already, but at least we did get the week that we wanted.

Good luck with your research and I hope that you find the ownership that works best for your family. WKORV is wonderful! CJ

 

[CalGalTraveler]

We have a good friend who has owned a C unit for years and she said she has always been able to get her summer weeks at midnight 12 months out. Floors may vary based on timestamp be she is usually able to get what she wants especially if you are a little flexible with check-in days as described by @mauitraveler.

The real challenge is that there are fewer higher floor units and the availability is affected by how many are Sat vs. Sunday check-in, elite owner and multi-week stays as described by @alwysonvac. Your odds of having a bottom floor with a partial view are higher than with a D unit.

 

[taterhed]

I'm not the experienced one at this........but I just researched the heck out of it and practiced for a bit as well (July/Aug bookings of OFD).

The OFD is not the huge rental attraction that OFC is due to the high MF's and 'studio around the corner'
That coupled with the 24 units (vs 12) would tend to improve your odds.....I think. That's why I bought.
This was born-out with my experience of viewing the reservations during July-Aug.

And, as the previous posters noted......the prime rental day is Saturday. If you can use an alternate check-in day...your odds are probably a good deal better. I had no problem booking 1st week in Aug and could have booked 1st week in June (a throw-back). This was only Saturday check-ins...there were more available on other check-in days.

cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The OFD is not the huge rental attraction that OFC is due to the high MF's and 'studio around the corner'
That coupled with the 24 units (vs 12) would tend to improve your odds.....I think. That's why I bought.
This was born-out with my experience of viewing the reservations during July-Aug.

$11 - $15k is a huge premium between an OFC and OFD unit. It would take many years at a higher MF to make up that difference. Specifically 12.5 to 17 years to break even!!! ($11,000 or $15k / $875 ann MF diff).

Does the OFD studio have a real balcony where you can sit and enjoy the view? or a juliette balcony?

 

[DeniseM]

Both types of OF studios have real, furnished, lanais.

 

[taterhed]

The OFD studio portion is pictured below: (balcony to right of first pic) Also, check this post: (courtesy of @DavidnRobin )
View from OFD studio balcony looking towards Molokai, B2 5th floor looking north (and more)

 

[LisaRex]

If you want to stay in a WKORV OFC villa every year, it makes sense to buy one, because they rent for about $4,600.

Given that the purchase price for OFC is around $30k, the cost of renting @ $4600 is actually cheaper compared to owning until around Year 15. That's a pretty long break even period IMO. Personally, I'd rent.

 

[taterhed]

Given that the purchase price for OFC is around $30k, the cost of renting @ $4600 is actually cheaper compared to owning until around Year 15. That's a pretty long break even period IMO. Personally, I'd rent.

Recently....the OFD's have been selling for less than $30k. Considerably less in some cases.

 

[vacationtime1]

Given that the purchase price for OFC is around $30k, the cost of renting @ $4600 is actually cheaper compared to owning until around Year 15. That's a pretty long break even period IMO. Personally, I'd rent.

I agree it is a close call -- and I own there.

My thinking is that I "gain" about $2,300/year -- the difference between what I would pay to rent the unit and the MF's I pay for the unit (currently $2,315). This $2,300 "gain" is a 7.66% after-tax rate of return on my $30,000 "investment".

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Given that the purchase price for OFC is around $30k, the cost of renting @ $4600 is actually cheaper compared to owning until around Year 15. That's a pretty long break even period IMO. Personally, I'd rent.

It appears that renting from an owner via Redweek or TUG saves money compared to SPG.com.

Cash rates on SPG listed WKORV 1 bdrm OV at $907 a night or $6,300/week. A 2 bedroom Island View was listed for $1147 - 1257 a night ($8,029 - $8,800). Couldn't even book a 2 bedroom OV or OF unit for cash or points.

(FWIW...I just booked 5 nights at Westin Kaanapali 1 bdrm OV for 395,000 Marriott points via the SPG website (78.000 points per night + 15/night parking) to extend our week in WKORVN OF. Will either stay here or opt for the Ritz residences 1 Bdrm OV for 440,000 points + $75/night junk fees...which would you choose?)

 

[Henry M.]

I prefer the Ka'anapali location over Kapalua, but that is strictly a matter of personal taste. My very first stay on Maui was at the Kapalua Bay Hotel, which later became the Ritz Residences. I enjoyed my stay there, but I find WKORV more convenient to do things outside the resort.

 

[duke]

(FWIW...I just booked 5 nights at Westin Kaanapali 1 bdrm OV for 395,000 Marriott points via the SPG website (78.000 points per night + 15/night parking) to extend our week in WKORVN OF. Will either stay here or opt for the Ritz residences 1 Bdrm OV for 440,000 points + $75/night junk fees...which would you choose?)

That's a lot of points. Close to $600 per night according to valuation of $0.007 per point (after 5th night free). Probably do better renting full week. Check out Redweek, etc.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

That's a lot of points. Close to $600 per night according to valuation of $0.007 per point (after 5th night free). Probably do better renting full week. Check out Redweek, etc.

Wow...hadn't thought about the points this way. That is a lot per night! What are the sweets spots with getting max value out of Marriott/SPG points? (BTW...the points I quoted were converted to Marriott i.e. 78,000 Marriott or 26,000 SPG points per night.)

Although you are conceptually correct, I am finding it hard to wrap my head around comparing shelling out $4600 in cold hard-earned cash ($657 per night) to rent versus spending hotel points (valued at $600/night) that I got from credit card sign-up bonuses (i.e. "free") that devalue while I wait for the perfect redemption, and am not certain of an alternative use that would provide more value to us.

At the same time, I realize that is a LOT of points. But I have no desire to pack my family of 4 into a hotel room even tho the points values are greater.

 

[vacationtime1]

Wow...hadn't thought about the points this way. That is a lot per night! What are the sweets spots with getting max value out of Marriott/SPG points?

Although you are conceptually correct, I am finding it hard to wrap my head around comparing shelling out $4600 in cold hard-earned cash ($657 per night) to rent versus spending hotel points (valued at $600/night) that I got from credit card sign-up bonuses (i.e. "free") that devalue if I wait for the perfect redemption, and am not certain of an alternative use that would provide more value to us.

At the same time, I realize that is a LOT of points but I have no desire to pack my family of 4 into a hotel room even tho the points values are greater.

We found the sweet spot for maximizing the value of the old StarPoints to be a 5 for 4 at European hotels (i.e. five nights for four nights of points; fifth night free). When you add the free breakfast buffet (DW has platinum status), it was quite a bargain.

I think the $600/night (in points value) described was for a 1bd OV suite at WKORV, not the 2bd OF suite. The latter wasn't available for points or for cash.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@vacationtime1 Thanks. I agree that international redemptions can be a great value and we took advantage of Sheraton Grand in Taiwan last year with lounge etc. However we currently only have domestic plans.

You are correct about the comparison: Just checked 1 bdrm OV rentals and they are in the $400 - $450 per night range vs. 650 OF. The downside is that these rentals are all full week and we only need 4 nights because we are bridging between TS weeks.

Everything is so expensive during the week we are visiting. Really makes me appreciate the value of owning WKORV/N because you can save a lot!


P.S. I am still trying to get my head around the economics of points vs. cash. For me, it is difficult to perfectly equate points to cash. I am all for maximizing hotel/air points so here is my take:

• Points are a past/sunk cost and available limited purposes. Earned via cc spend and bonuses (free). You can't invest points and they will devalue over time if saved.

• Paying cash for a rental is a future cost - you need to take the money from some other investment or future income to pay for a rental. Cash can be used for any purpose. Earned through work/investments. You can invest it and it will increase in value over time if saved in an interest bearing account.

 

[Ken555]

@vacationtime1 Thanks. I agree that international redemptions can be a great value and we took advantage of Sheraton Grand in Taiwan last year with lounge etc. However we currently only have domestic plans.

You are correct about the comparison: Just checked 1 bdrm OV rentals and they are in the $400 - $450 per night range vs. 650 OF. The downside is that these rentals are all full week and we only really need 4 nights because we are bridging between TS weeks.

Everything is so expensive during the week we are visiting. Really makes me appreciate the value of owing because you can save a lot!


P.S. I am still trying to get my head around the economics of points vs. cash. For me, it is difficult to perfectly equate points to cash. I am all for maximizing hotel/air points but here is my take:

• Points are a past/sunk cost and available limited purposes. Earned via cc spend and bonuses (free). You can't invest points and they will devalue over time.

• Paying cash for a rental is a future cost. Cash can be used for any purpose. Earned through work/investments. You can invest it and it will increase in value over time if saved in an interest bearing account.

I suggest starting a new thread to discuss this topic as it can be involved. I will point out that rationalizing point usage is a key factor for the programs in keeping it profitable for them, while maximizing use is best for the customer. Some years ago WKORV studios were available for 12,000 SPs per night, with a five for four option.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Ken555 good suggestion. Sorry to take this off topic. Will create a new thread later.

 

[Henry M.]

A studio costs the same number of points as a room at the Sheraton on Black Rock. That number has now gone up to 50,000 new points (just over 16,600 Starpoints).

It used to be you could stay 10 days at the Sheraton for the 80,000 Starpoints you got for a 2BR villa. You can only stay 5 days now (using the perennial 5th night free promotion).

I see having Starpoints like having a foreign currency. It can devalue indeed, but it is like cash that can only be spent in specific places. I use a $0.02/point ratio to see if it is worth my while to use the points. If the cost of a room I want is much more than this ratio, I use points or sometimes cash and points. If it is much less, then I pay cash. If it is right around the ratio, I use the points if I have more than I can reasonably expect to use in the near future. They tend to lose value every year because you have to use more points for a given hotel room as the hotels move up in category.

 

[TravelTime]

You need to work through your timeshare agent. If they really want you to buy, they will arrange to get on the phone with the seller and make your reservation. Then they will send you a copy. So when the sale transfers, you will have a reservation already on the books. If your timeshare agent does not do this for you, let us know who it is so we do not give business to that person.

 

[Robotpedlr]

$11 - $15k is a huge premium between an OFC and OFD unit. It would take many years at a higher MF to make up that difference. Specifically 12.5 to 17 years to break even!!! ($11,000 or $15k / $875 ann MF diff).

One problem with this logic is you are not considering the residual value of the premium in the OFC vs OFD. You would assume you have an asset worth $15k more (give or take) when you sell it in the future. Your math assumes the are eventually equal.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

One problem with this logic is you are not considering the residual value of the premium in the OFC vs OFD. You would assume you have an asset worth $15k more (give or take) when you sell it in the future. Your math assumes the are eventually equal.

The analysis is simply comparing the two properties assuming their values rise and fall consistently. No matter if the properties maintained todays residual value or whether they both declined at the same rate, one would still need to factor in the opportunity cost of locking up an additional $11 - $15k and the risk of capital loss compared to investing in an interest bearing account at rising interest rates (3 - 4%) or the stock market (7% over time). Some may wish to use the money for other purposes. Others may say the premium is worth it.

Hypothetically if both properties lost 20% the OFC property would lose more $ because it is off a higher base:

OFD $24k - 20% = $4,800 capital loss
OFC $36k - 20% = $7,200 capital loss

Net difference of additional $2,400 lost capital plus plus opportunity cost of the $11 - $15k premium difference. Worst case: If MVC increases the MF to very high levels because they want to push weeks owners out in favor of the DC points system (or whatever newfangled thing they are trying to sell), I could see the value plummeting to close to zero similar to Harborside today. Maui has benefits over Bahamas so unlikely (low chance of hurricane damage, US vs. international, no VAT, better flight availability/competition). As an owner I sincerely hope this never happens.

 

[duke]

Again, your prices are too high (now for purchase price and before for rental cost).

Bottom line, for any analysis these units should have "0" value for sale.

Most important: discard your calculations, as RENTAL of another owners unit will ALWAYS be less expensive.

However, if you want the benefits of ownership buy what you want at the best price you can get.

TaterHed's posts are the best I have seen on purchase options at best prices in the real world.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@duke Not sure if your comments were directed at me but the analysis was based on Taterheds suggested resale prices (not firesale because those are unicorns.)

FWIW the rental rates on Redweek at WKORV for 4th of July week are as follows:

1 bedroom OV $414 - $450 a night / $2898 - $3150 week
2 bdrm OF $614 - 714 / $4298 - $4998 week
No 1 bdrm or studio OF units currently available

If you know where to find these units for less, please share. One advantage of booking via hotel points are that we can cancel the booking at any time while keeping an eye out as the dates approach for owners willing to reduce the rental price, or if we find a better option elsewhere.